Compass Guide to

[Jan Heine]

We get a lot of questions about how the various models of SON generator hubs are different, and which is best for a certain application. So I wrote a short guide to the most commonly used SON hubs:

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/12/02/guide-to-generator-hubs/

Enjoy!

Jan Heine

Compass Cycles

www.compasscycle.com

[lum gim fong]

Love my edeluxe wide body!
How do the Shutter Precisions stack up against tge Schmidts?

Trying to decide what to get for my new bikes wheel.

[Belopsky]

I am also trying to decide. With the cost of the Schmidt overseas, It's a bit easier to go with a Schmidt - and if I am spending time to lace up a wheel, I'd rather do it 'right' the first time.

[Eric Norris]

I have Shutter Precision SP-8 hubs on two bikes. Great performance at an amazing price. The drag is very low—I run LED front and rear lights on all the time and can’t tell that they’re on.

I believe the Schmidt hubs are better sealed, but living in CA I don’t have to deal with the type of rain and snow that would require better waterproofing.

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

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[BSWP]

I built my new wheel with a SON wide-body, there was just no other choice, in my opinion, for the strongest wheel.

- Andrew, Berkeley

[Igor Belopolsky]

That's the delux? Unfortunately I have a 32 hole front rim I was going to build up but perhaps I should do a 28 w that hub...

Is delux wide body "better" than a son28? Will I really notice a difference? If not then what should I spend money on?

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[Belopsky]

Also I live in Michigan so cold and wet and snow and all that happens

[Eric Norris]

My understanding of the “pressure compensated” seals on the Schmidt hubs is this: If your bike is inside or anywhere warm, the air inside the hub shell will also warm up and expand. Take the hub outside, and the air in the hub will contract, drawing in air from the outside. If the hub is wet, water will get drawn inside along with the air … unless there’s a pressure compensating device to stop this. This is the advantage of the Schmidt hub—the Shutter Precision is sealed, but not pressure compensated.

However, in order to get water inside a Shutter Precision hub in this circumstance, you would need to take the bike from a warm environment directly into a cold, wet environment so that the hub is wet while the temperature inside it is acclimating to the outside. The simple workaround is to put the bike outside, sheltered from the rain, for a few minutes so the hub doesn’t get wet immediately while the pressure in the hub equalizes.

And … it’s likely that we’re talking about the outer edges of longevity here. My guess is that there’s very little difference in lifespan between Schmidt and SP hubs in normal, real-world riding.

Schmidt hubs do *look* nicer, if you’re into highly polished alloy surfaces!

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

On Dec 2, 2016, at 9:55 AM, Belopsky <belopol...@gmail.com> wrote:

Also I live in Michigan so cold and wet and snow and all that happens

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[Patrick Moore]

FWIW, Kerry of K-Lite, who makes very particularly designed lights devoted to off road use, specs SP hubs for his hub/light packages. That's what I have on my off road bike.

Jan, you should start carrying SP hubs as a lower price alternative.

On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 11:37 AM, Eric Norris <campyo...@me.com> wrote:

My understanding of the “pressure compensated” seals on the Schmidt hubs is this: If your bike is inside or anywhere warm, the air inside the hub shell will also warm up and expand. Take the hub outside, and the air in the hub will contract, drawing in air from the outside. If the hub is wet, water will get drawn inside along with the air … unless there’s a pressure compensating device to stop this. This is the advantage of the Schmidt hub—the Shutter Precision is sealed, but not pressure compensated.

However, in order to get water inside a Shutter Precision hub in this circumstance, you would need to take the bike from a warm environment directly into a cold, wet environment so that the hub is wet while the temperature inside it is acclimating to the outside. The simple workaround is to put the bike outside, sheltered from the rain, for a few minutes so the hub doesn’t get wet immediately while the pressure in the hub equalizes.

And … it’s likely that we’re talking about the outer edges of longevity here. My guess is that there’s very little difference in lifespan between Schmidt and SP hubs in normal, real-world riding.

Schmidt hubs do *look* nicer, if you’re into highly polished alloy surfaces!

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

On Dec 2, 2016, at 9:55 AM, Belopsky <belopol...@gmail.com> wrote:

Also I live in Michigan so cold and wet and snow and all that happens

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[Belopsky]

Jeez well for this price, "I cant afford not to"

https://www.westernbikeworks.com/product/shutter-precision-pv-8-dynamo-front-hub?v=s320000&adl=1&utm_campaign=products&utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&adl=1&gclid=CNPn19aY1tACFUQdaQodtLUGkw

Someone talk me out of this before 5PM or I'm ordering it for my 650b wheelset..

[Bill Lindsay]

Igor posted a link to the Shutter Precision PV-8 for $86.99

Dollar for dollar, you cannot do better than that.  $87 for a SP PV-8 (free shipping and no tax) is like stealing.  Their claim that $144 is retail is a little misleading, but still, $87 is an incredible price for a VERY VERY good dynamo hub.  You'd have to resort to shoplifting to beat that value. 

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Igor Belopolsky]

Bill - Is this hub fine for 650b or is the SV version better? 

About $30 more gets you the new SV-9 http://www.bikemania.biz/shutter-precision-sp-sv-9-dynomo-hub-32h.html

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[Bill Lindsay]

Both are fine for 650B.  It looks like your extra $30 would save you 20 grams, and that's about it.  I've never used the SV-9, and my PV-8s (2 of them) and PD-8x (one of them) have been issue free.  So if you have extra money to throw around go ahead and buy the more expensive one if you want to.  The PV-8 will be just fine, in my opinion.  If you like dynamo hubs as much as I do, you will be buying several more over the next few years, and you'll get numerous chances to make different choices.  So whatever you pick now, you really can't go wrong.  

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hi Igor,

IIRC:

"P" series is for higher energy need, e.g., need to charge phone/GPS/device and power light, or using 700C. The Schmidt comparison is SON28. 
"S" series is for lower energy needs, e.g., lights only, or smaller wheels. Schmidt comparison is SonDelux.

For spirited riding with 650b, I think many recommend SV series because it's smaller, lighter, and less rotational resistance than P. If you plan on doing multi-day touring, you might want to choose P, but maybe not.

Good luck,

Shoji

On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 2:50:48 PM UTC-5, Belopsky wrote:

Bill - Is this hub fine for 650b or is the SV version better? 

About $30 more gets you the new SV-9 http://www.bikemania.biz/shutter-precision-sp-sv-9-dynomo-hub-32h.html

On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 2:48 PM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

Igor posted a link to the Shutter Precision PV-8 for $86.99

Dollar for dollar, you cannot do better than that.  $87 for a SP PV-8 (free shipping and no tax) is like stealing.  Their claim that $144 is retail is a little misleading, but still, $87 is an incredible price for a VERY VERY good dynamo hub.  You'd have to resort to shoplifting to beat that value. 

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 11:03:07 AM UTC-8, Belopsky wrote:

Jeez well for this price, "I cant afford not to"

https://www.westernbikeworks.com/product/shutter-precision-pv-8-dynamo-front-hub?v=s320000&adl=1&utm_campaign=products&utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&adl=1&gclid=CNPn19aY1tACFUQdaQodtLUGkw

Someone talk me out of this before 5PM or I'm ordering it for my 650b wheelset..

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[Igor Belopolsky]

Great, sounds like I should go with the cheapest for my needs.

Time to ride home to see how 650B works on this Bob Jackson of mine before I decide to build a dyno wheelset for it :)

[Belopsky]

Welp, 650B doesnt work on jackson unless I get longer reach brakes, which is the last thing I want to after spending time on getting this MAFACs built and purdy ;P

Going to build up another front w/ the PV-8 laced to TB14 in 700c. That way I have three matching wheels, one of which has a dyno. Thoughts?

[lum gim fong]

Slap some Diacompe 750s on there and keep it 650B.

[Igor Belopolsky]

I have those actually, but I don't want to change out brakes and etc - I realize the DIacompe 750 have enough room to be both 700 and 650b, but my MAFAC Racers are so much nicer [looking]

On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 4:08 PM, lum gim fong <john1...@gmail.com> wrote:

Slap some Diacompe 750s on there and keep it 650B.

[Steve Palincsar]

How about RAIDs?  Same classic Mafac appearance as the Racers, but longer reach.

[Belopsky]

The RAID are nice, but I spent a good amount of time on refurbing my Racers and will stick with them for now. New pads, hardware from Grand Bois, and my own brass bushings :)

[Bill Lindsay]

Mark B already pointed it out, but just in case I will repeat it: Make sure to rotate your brake shoes 180 degrees on one of your two calipers.  As pictured, they are both set up to run on the FRONT.  Whichever one is being used in the back needs to hat the brake shoes flipped around.  There is an OPEN end and a CLOSED end.  The CLOSED end faces FORWARD on the bike, so you don't launch your brake pads under hard braking.  

Bill

[Igor Belopolsky]

Yep, I know :). It's going to be a few days til I get that far - I am waiting on Grand Bois to email me shipping cost for the Grand Bois stem I want to use

[Ryan Fleming]

Wow...you did a nice job on those brakes...that is a labour of love

I have these on my PX-10 and with Koolstop pads , they're excellent brakes

[masmojo]

As Bill said once you get one Dynamo, they will start to prolferate. I really don't build a bike or front wheel without one now. The SP's like the one that was linked to are my "go to" now because you can get them for $100 or less & they are small & light. The newer SP's may be better, but are a bit more expensive & harder to find so I haven't tried one as of yet. Honestly, even some of the Shimano's are OK as well & I've picked those up for $50 or less.
Regarding moisture, yes under those circumstances moisture could get into the hub, but unless you are dunking the bike in water or going through a deep stream you would be generally looking at condensation and it would take a long while for this to have much effect.

[Ian A]

Dynamo hubs are well worth the investment for any one who uses their bicycle regularly. The length of service from dynamo hubs is so good, and they are such good value, that even a top end hub at $300 or so pays itself back in droves.

The SP hubs and Shimano dynamo hubs and Son hubs are fantastic value. And the hubs don't seem to become obsolete or less desirable over time. I find myself periodically pondering the latest Schmidt light offerings, but my old Son28 iand my Shimano DH-3n80 hubs simply don't need upgrading.

Ian A/Canada.