Has anyone tried this type of brifter-like shifter/brake lever combo as cockpit option?

[Scott]

First off, I know they ain't pretty. But has anyone given these a go?

Coming from the MTB world I've never run swept back bars (confession) and have always marveled at the different cockpit set-ups folks come-up with: shifters and brake levers here, there, and everywhere. MTBing junky stuff, I prefer my hands married to the grips and not searching for a shifter to bang a gear or a brake lever to shed some speed.

What makes these intriguing is that they are kind of a Frankenstein brifter. The brake lever for braking, obviously, but also doubling as a shift lever, up or down shift. The Frankenstein bit is the below the bar integrated thumb-actuated shifter that on the right side down shifts (unless you rapid rise reverse like I do) when pushed. As typical, left side would up shift chain wheels.

Part of why I find these intriguing from a set-up/build solution perspective is because I once had a pair of Campy brifters on a road bike and thought it was pretty handy being able to shift and brake with my hands not leaving drop hoods.

How did I get here? I'm on standby for a Gus and have been pondering Albatross set-ups. For surfing city streets, gravel roads, or even trail-bombing, it seems like these would be a nifty solution to all controls being in a tiny package easily accessed from most used hand position.

Please, chime in on these and why you run the shifter/brake lever set-up you do: here, there, or everywhere...

Scott in Big Sky Country, as in Montana.

 

[Scott Luly]

Oofff, I spaced including what these shifters are and a picture. My apologies.

I'm sure there are variants out there, but these particular ones are Shimano XTR ST-M961 series.

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[Josiah Anderson]

Yeah, I had those on a fancy mountain bike for a while when I was still into that (next trail bike will likely be an Atlantis, so you can tell where my priorities are now). I didn't find them any better than trigger shifters, or even regular old thumb shifters, which are my preference now. I do have big hands so I guess normal shifters might be easier for me than for some people, but I don't have any trouble shifting with my thumb while holding on to the bar with the rest of my hand, so I didn't see any benefit to these. I went back to regular Rapidfires after they failed. I also took the thumb levers off of mine after a while and just shifted by pulling the levers up and down; the thumb levers seem like an afterthought and aren't too useful in my opinion.

Full disclosure, I also use downtube shifters on most of my road bikes and even a rod-operated front derailer on one, so obviously I don't care too much about shifter proximity to the main hand position. I currently have three off-road bikes, and the handlebar/brake/shift situations are as follows:

- Flat bar, Avid Speed Dial levers, one SunTour thumb shifter and foot/manual front shifting (on a late 90s Nelson custom-for-someone-else hardtail MTB from Wales)

- Moustache bar, Shimano 600 Tricolor aero road levers mounted a bit farther back than Grant advises, SunTour bar-cons (on a 1983 Stumpjumper)

- Salsa Cowbell drop bar, more 600 tricolor levers, Shimano bar-end shifters (on a humongous free Bianchi Volpe that's been great for cyclocross)

Josiah

also in MT (Missoula)

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[Joe Bernard]

Hi Scott, 

These were actually introduced with Shimano's second run at RapidRise so you have the right idea combining the two: the idea is Dual Control is you could nudge the lever up or down on either side and get the same higher or lower gears. My rather vague recollection is the paddle was originally an option that didn't come with all lever sets, but ended up standard later. They weren't well received in the mountain bike market because riders would go bombing over rocks and roots with hands covering the brake levers and find themselves accidentally shifting. They disappeared along with RapidRise after a few years. 

I don't have any personal experience with them but I imagine they'd be pretty nifty on an Albatross bike if you're not bombing over rocks and roots every day. I ride like you with pullback bars - Bosco on one bike, Billie on another - with my hands pretty much always on or near the grips and a trigger shifter (SRAM) right there. As you say there's lots of combinations in Riv World including many that have the shifter(s) way forward on the bar or even on the stem but that's not my jam. Indexed and near the grip, I like it! 

[Scott Luly]

@Josiah,

Hey, neighbor! I'm up on the Hi-Line in Shelby. I needa get outta here and back to the mountains like you. Thanks for sharing your experiences. I just got an Atlantis F/F 3 weeks ago and am pondering bar set-up for it, too. I plan on using it for dirt touring, bike packing, MTBing, and all arounder. For the Atlantis I'm going to duplicate a set-up I already have on another bike and am really, really stoked with. In fact, I'll probably pinch it from that bike. I've attached a picture of the set-up. It's a lugged mid 80's Nashbar with a 31.8 FacePlater that allows me to run wide carbon (bad word) monkey bars with M951 Rapidfires. Simple, yeah, but it's a killer set-up and the only way I would go with any version of a straight/flat style bar. This series of Rapidfires leaves NOTHING to be to desired. I went with carbon bars for vibration absorption and ability to get 77cm wide bars. Feels like I'm on my dirt bike.

So, now that I've clarified that I've got my flat bar set-up locked-in with Rapidfires, how do you think those M961 Dual Control (thanks, Joe) would work for a swept back set-up? Maybe I should stick with my Rapidfires for a swept back set-up. In my head it just seems funky to fit Rapidfires to swept back bars. I just have in my head that those Dual Controls would be proper on swept back bars for cruising beach cruiser style. Know what I mean?

Not if, but when I get a Gus, maybe I'll just run straight bars on it. It's hard to think about deviating from a set-up I've already verified with stoke factor.

@Joe,

Pardner, I watch your post replies, and you're a hard one to stump! I expected to get traffic from you. My intrigue with the Dual Control has nothing to do with pairing with a rapid rise RD. I run a rapid rise RD with my Rapidfires (and love it). I was intrigued I guess with being able to "slap" shift while cruising with swept back bars, at least that's what it felt like shifting those campy brifters I had. Thanks for the enlightenment about the Dual Controls offering the unwelcome shift while riding over rough terrain with fingers covering brake levers. That never crossed my mind, and now I know why the MTB community never took to them. Being that I'm a swept back bar virgin, the shifter placement thing gets me. I see brake lever position set-ups that look good. Most shifter schemes I see I think "meh." Send a picture of your shifter scheme, please?

True story: back in the late 90s while I was practicing dentistry down in Ennis, Montana a cowboy came out of cow camp in the mountains with a toothache to see me. He filled out his medical history and listed his "Pardner" as a person to contact in case of emergency.

Thanks, pardners.

Scott 

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[Joe Bernard]

Scott, unfortunately my setup won't be much help to you, my Riv is a 1x with the SRAM trigger flipped over and upsidedown on the left side cuz I have a buggered right hand. It sits up like a traditional thumbshifter and works surprisingly great that way on sweptback bars, but I've seen RapidFires in the normal location on some Rivs. 

*pic is on a Tosco bar, I traded later for Bosco 

[Joe Bernard]

Here's a pic I found of Leah's Platy, she has my shifter (SRAM Apex) on a Billie Bar. You gotta look for it but it's right under the right grip. 

[DavidP]

Regarding having shifters in a location other than the primary grip - I think it comes down to how comfortable you are moving your hands around the bars and riding with them away from the controls (Josiah touched on this in his response).

Most MTBs are setup for a single hand position with all controls (brakes, shifters, dropper, etc.) accessible without moving the hands at all. I have a couple of bikes likes this - if the bars only have one grip location it makes sense (though you could argue that even an MTB flat bar could be gripped in other places).

Road bikes with drop bars have multiple places to put your hands. Brifters keep the brakes/shifters immediately accessible when on the hoods and drops, but not the tops. Some go so far as to add interrupter levers to have brake control there too.

You can increase your comfort level with not having controls right next to your hands by moving your hands around more and riding away from the controls longer. It does depend on / vary with the riding environment, speed, etc.

It's easier to get comfortable with shifters being less accessible than it is with brakes. Riding bikes with DT shifters and, especially, single speed bikes helps you realize that you don't need to be in the perfect gear all the time. That combined with benefits of a handlebar that allows for multiple hand positions and back angles can result in setup that makes looks like shifting is a secondary consideration - because it is.

Many settle on a readily but not necessarily immediately accessible position for shifting (bar ends, stem shifters, thumbies mounted somewhere other than the brake lever) as a good middle ground.

-Dave

[Tom Palmer]

I have 2 of these and as stated earlier they are designed for rapid rise. I did not like them for mountain biking as you do have some unintended shifting. I do like them on a swept back bar and regular (non-rise?) rear derailler for road/gravel riding. I had them on Albatross bars and worked well. They are nice for opening up space on the bars- it allows lots of room above the brifter for hands. I am considering them on my Platypus build even. 

Tom Palmer

Twin Lake, MI

[Will Boericke]

I had a set on a Cannondale Scalpel and DID NOT like the mechanism.  The shove down in front of the bar to shift was super awkward, even with a rapid rise rear.  Which I also depsise.  

If you do like them, the bonus is you can always find replacement shifters because nobody else liked them.  As evidenced by their brief marketing lifespan.

Will near Boston

[Joe Bunik]

hi Scott,

Please contact me off-list <jbu...@gmail.com> ... I have a couple
questions for you about this setup on your Nashbar-branded MTB frame.

Thanks!
=- Joe Bunik
Walnut Creek, CA


On 11/16/22, 'Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch

<rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> @Josiah,
> Hey, neighbor! I'm up on the Hi-Line in Shelby. I needa get outta here and
> back to the mountains like you. Thanks for sharing your experiences. I just
> got an Atlantis F/F 3 weeks ago and am pondering bar set-up for it, too. I
> plan on using it for dirt touring, bike packing, MTBing, and all arounder.
> For the Atlantis I'm going to duplicate a set-up I already have on another
> bike and am really, really stoked with. In fact, I'll probably pinch it from
> that bike. I've attached a picture of the set-up. It's a lugged mid 80's
> Nashbar with a 31.8 FacePlater that allows me to run wide carbon (bad word)
> monkey bars with M951 Rapidfires. Simple, yeah, but it's a killer set-up and
> the only way I would go with any version of a straight/flat style bar. This
> series of Rapidfires leaves NOTHING to be to desired. I went with carbon
> bars for vibration absorption and ability to get 77cm wide bars. Feels like

> I'm on my dirt bike.So, now that I've clarified that I've got my flat bar

> set-up locked-in with Rapidfires, how do you think those M961 Dual Control
> (thanks, Joe) would work for a swept back set-up? Maybe I should stick with
> my Rapidfires for a swept back set-up. In my head it just seems funky to fit
> Rapidfires to swept back bars. I just have in my head that those Dual
> Controls would be proper on swept back bars for cruising beach cruiser

> style. Know what I mean?Not if, but when I get a Gus, maybe I'll just run

> straight bars on it. It's hard to think about deviating from a set-up I've
> already verified with stoke factor.

> @Joe,Pardner, I watch your post replies, and you're a hard one to stump! I

> Josiahalso in MT (Missoula)

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1892351636.1119113.1668664351636%40mail.yahoo.com.
>