Re: Mystery Case of Leo Roadini

[Brian Forsee]

Drew,

I'm mostly coming here to laugh at 'DA 9spd downtube shifters appear to be made out of solid bitcoin'. For whatever it is worth I can confirm that these are the most satisfying shifter I have ever used. So crisp.

As far as your issue goes I'm afraid I can't offer much advise. Only thing I could think of is if the shifter mounting bolt that goes into the frame boss is bottoming out before it can apply enough pressure/friction to the lever to keep it from slipping. I know those shifters have proprietary washers/spacers so you should be good, but it may be worth trying adding an extra on the bottom or top of the stack and seeing what that does for ya.

Good luck!

Brian

On Wednesday, June 11, 2025 at 12:01:25 PM UTC-5 drew.jo...@gmail.com wrote:

All, 

My mechanic is running into some issues and I figured I would try the group prior to trying something more drastic or costly. Pictured is a very recently built up Leo, full specs below…

57 Sergio Roadini: Tig

Size 57 frameset 

FSA Duron Headset 

Black Nitto Pearl (70) Stem NOS

Crust Towelrack (600/narrowest) Bars

TRP RRL Levers 

Paul Racer Brakes 

Sugino XD- 600T (XD2) Triple 48/36/26

IRD QB 95 Bottom Bracket (110)

MKS Monarch Pedals, Champagne 

Velocity Quill dynamo (Velocity KT) wheelset

Ultradynamico Rośe and Cava Robustos

Nitto S65 Crystal Fellow - 26.8 x 300mm

Berthoud Galibier Ti Saddle 

Silver 1 Downtube Shifters

Deore M592 Rear/Ultegra 6503 Front Der. 9sp

Shimano - 9 Speed 11-34t (Deore XT M770)

The entire drivetrain is “new,” including the NOS FD.  But we cannot get the Silver 1 shifters to stop slipping.  Blue lock tight has been applied to D ring threads.  We have checked rear derailleur hanger alignment.

However, on a brief five mile test, I experienced considerable ghost shifting.  Even when my shifts were perfect.  My mechanic confirmed the same and has named the shifters as the sole culprit.  We just cannot get them to stop slipping.

I have called Riv an embarrassing number of times.  Two solutions Riv recommended-

1) Bar ends 

2) Swap the outer ring on crankset to a 44T and swap to the Skeleton Key FD.

My mechanic recommended trying different downtube shifters, Microshift 2/3X 9 speed specifically.

I am considering trying everything from the different shifters to swapping the whole drivetrain to a 1X.  Or even selling the complete given I can also ride a size 54.  

Anyone have any idea if the Microshift will work?  Seems that’s the cheapest, most straightforward solution. And it requires no modification of the cockpit.  Dura Ace 9 speed downtube shifters are apparently made of solid BitCoin.  So Microshift seems to be the best 9 speed option for downtube? 

Drew,

“Who’s trying not to spend hundreds of additional dollars on a new drivetrain.” 

P.S. If someone has any interest in my full drivetrain and has confidence they can make it work.  I am open to trading for a simple road group like full Shimano 105, SRAM Rival, etc. even considering 1X systems.   Shoot me a private message please.

Sent from my iPhone

[Steve]

Drew, FWIW I'm currently using  Microshift shifters on two different bikes and have found them to work just fine though I do run them in friction mode.  I think they'd be a safe bet for the money. 

Steve in AVL

On Wednesday, June 11, 2025 at 1:17:44 PM UTC-4 drew.jo...@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks Brian! 

[Bill Lindsay]

The OP seems to have deleted their initial inquiry, but I think there's an important fact here that may be beyond the depth of most home-mechanics, but seems to be beyond the depth of even shop mechanics.  

The Silver friction shifter, along with many other vintage friction shifters, generate friction by a stack of parts being squished together by the d-ring.  In general, the tighter the D-ring the more the friction.  There are two things that STOP the D-ring from getting any tighter:

1. The end of the D-ring threads bottoming out in the threaded hole in the shifter boss

2. The top plastic friction spacer, which is shaped like a cylinder with two flat faces, slides down the shifter boss UNTIL IT STOPS and can't slide on any farther.  

I suspect the OP is hitting number 2.  This means it doesn't matter how tight the D-Ring is tightened.  The friction spacer can't slide any farther down the post, and therefore the stack can't be squeezed any harder, and there is no more friction.  

The FREE diagnosis to prove this is what is going on, these are the steps:

1. Completely remove both shifters (Left and Right).  
2. Lay both stacks of parts on the workbench

3. take the base washer from the left shifter and add it to the right shifter stack 

4. Install the right shifter with TWO base washers 

5. as you snug up the D-ring, notice that it is simple to get a lot of friction.  

Once you've proven this to yourself that just means that you want a base washer that's a tiny bit thicker.  Whether you find one that's a tiny bit thicker or add a very thin auxiliary spacer, it doesn't matter.  

For those who think "It's a Rivendell bike and Rivendell shifters!  This should just work!!"  You are not wrong, but it's also not rocket science to actually look at what is going on and understand.  I think these Taiwan-made shifter bosses have had some kind of manufacturing drift,  That shoulder part is not used by most down tube shifters, so nobody cares where that shoulder ends.  It only comes up these days with Silver shifters.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Andrew Joseph]

This is so good Bill,

I deleted the OP as I didn’t want to bother everyone after purchasing the Microshift shifters.  But I will be saving this email. 

Thank you for taking the time to address my issue and I hope it helps many here.  

Will report back. 

Drew 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 11, 2025, at 5:13 PM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

The OP seems to have deleted their initial inquiry, but I think there's an important fact here that may be beyond the depth of most home-mechanics, but seems to be beyond the depth of even shop mechanics.  

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[Patrick Moore]

My first guess, and I emphasize “guess,” is that somehow your attachment screws are bottoming out or facing some other interference before they sufficiently tighten up against the lever.

Blue Loctite, per my experience, ought to hold shift levers with bolts working properly in place; even the old Campy record dt shifters, notorious for loosening, behaved perfectly with Blue Loctite.

Good luck, and please report your solution and results.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[Andrew Joseph]

Absolutely, will report back Patrick.  

Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 11, 2025, at 8:17 PM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:



All, 

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Sent from my iPhone

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[Brent Eastman]

My 2023 Roadini has the same issue, only on the left shifter (suntour superbe) and I think Bill's #1 diagnosis is happening. 

[Andrew Joseph]

That’s a bummer Brenton,

Wish this wasn’t the case.  Riv essentially confirmed Bills diagnosis and quickly offered a replacement.  I’ve also received overwhelming support to try 9 speed bar cons as an alternative to downtube shifters.  But I’m always smitten with the aesthetics and apparent simplicity of downtube.  The replacement parts arrive this week, hopefully a quick fix.  

Hope you resolve your shifter soon.

[Bill Lindsay]

My diagnosis #1 was the D-Ring bolt is bottoming out.  That gives you three easy experiments:

1. Try the double-base washer trick, borrowing the second base washer from the right hand side and confirming that helps. 

2. Try a shorter bolt in place of the D-ring.  The D Ring is threaded M5x0.8, which is the same as a water bottle bolt.  Take out any spare water bottle bolt and see if it's shorter than the threaded portion of your D-Ring.  If it is shorter, try it and see that with a shorter bolt you definitely are no longer bottoming out.  

3. Just run a small washer under the head of the D-Ring bolt.  It should have a small outer diameter, to fit into the little recess in the plastic domed piece.  This effectively shortens the bolt length. 

If any of those three address your problem then you have a successful diagnosis and a good start at remedies.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Garth]

Before going about adding any washers and such I would at least chase the threads with a tap first to make sure the threads are clean all the way. Normal function is to be able thread the shifter bolt all the way without bottoming out with the shifter installed correctly. I highly doubt the braze-ons are defectively manufactured with shorter than spec threads, though it's possible as the shop that built them may or may not even check the threads. With your Riv purchased frame, don't hesitate to contact them about things that aren't fitting correctly, that''s part of a selling frames to the public, to fit the parts as intended. They want to know these things as well. If you spend 2 grand on new frame the last thing you ought to be doing is home remedies with it. Whaddaya paying for ?

[Bill Lindsay]

Garth, this is a super interesting comment.  Interesting because I'm 95% sure I disagree.  I disagree because in my experience all down tube shifter bosses are a BLIND HOLE.  The boss itself, purchased from a frame building supply house, is indeed drilled through.  But the frame builder, as far as I know, brazes that thing to the down tube, and the physical down tube therefore blocks the hole.  The frame builder does not (to my knowledge) pre-drill the down tube with a hole, and then align the down tube shifter boss to that hole.  

Since the hole is blind, you can't run a tap through to chase all the threads, because the tip of the tap will bump against the down tube wall long before you reach the end of the threads.  There is a special tap called a bottoming tap that gets a lot closer to the end, but that's generally a more expensive specialty tool, and one has to be careful using it.  

My question to you, Garth, is whether chasing the threads on all your down tube shifter bosses is something you actually do?  Or is this a recommendation generated more theoretically?  

For anybody who wants to chase the threads in their shifter boss, I think the best first step would be to shove a spoke down the hole.  If the spoke bumps into the end of the hole, it's a blind hole, so be careful.  As far as I know, all down tube shifter bosses on steel frames will be blind holes.  If I'm wrong about that and the spoke pokes all the way through, it's a through hole and you can run your tap through with more confidence.  Be aware that the swarf will be expelled down the down tube and you may want to get it out.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Brent Eastman]

Because I have the exact frame as well, 57 sergio green tig roadini (2023 only color?) and a similar experience. I had to check it out. 

I removed the shift lever assembly from the boss, checked the depth with a spoke, the hole is 13mm deep, it is a blind hole.

The D ring bolt that came with my suntour levers is 10mm long, with threads the whole way. Should go all the way in right?

Threaded in by itself, the bolt hits resistance at 9mm, the head of the bolt is not yet contacting the shifter boss.

My opinion is the boss threads could stand to be deeper by 1 or 2 mm, and then I wouldn't have needed the extra spacer that I put on the inboard side of the assembly to get the friction needed to hold the lever's position.

I think if you were to tap the shifter boss a couple extra mm, you'd fix the issue, but I don’t have the proper tap for it, and my spacer solution is working.

[Bill Lindsay]

Good stuff, there.  My informal survey of the frame builder community confirms that it is exceedingly rare but not unheard of to pre-drill the down tube before brazing on the shifter boss.  In that informal survey, one framebuilder speculated that it's conceivable that Liquid Metal could in principle wick up the threads during the brazing process.  Running a bottoming tap down that hole could maybe get the 1-2 mm needed.  It would need to be a bottoming tap though.  

BL in EC 

[Garth]

Bill, I've used two Craftsman tap sets I bought in 1999 for my Franklin custom frame to chase the threads when new. For the derailleur hanger and shifter/bottle bosses. I'm aware the DT boss  bolts don't go through the tubes, and the tap I have is pointed but it's a very small point for which common sense to me is only go as far as needed until it bottoms out. I bought whatever Sears had at the time.  A bottom out one would certainly be more efficient though ! Nevertheless, it cleaned the threads on the DT boss for my frame that was rough. Out of necessity, I'm my own mechanic as the builder was not local and there is no bike shop local. Such things ought not to happen though on a new custom hand made frames.  But hey, if one has is not comfortable using a tap then better to have a trusted shop or friend do it.

If I had Drew's frame I would also measure how deep each D-ring can thread in, and do it with some bottle bolts as well. (As I'm editing this, I see Brenton's comment about how he measured the bosses, yes !) See if they vary any. My comment was geared toward any possible obstructions in the DT boss, I'd even blow some compressed air in there just to be sure there's not something lodged. Even a flashlight and magnifying glass ? Why not ! Maybe there's monkey in there ;-). I can't think of any other reason why one boss would be different install depth than obstruction of some kind.

The washer option may be a path of least resistance for some though as maybe they don't have the ability of confidence to check out why the bolt doesn't go as far as needed. Then again, one has to get the right size washer which just may it's own adventure !

[Andrew Joseph]

Thank you all for taking the time to weigh in on this issue…prior to this thread, my assumption was that friction downtube shifting was the most straightforward and simple solution aside from singlespeed.  I really like how clean a bike can look without the additional spaghetti cabling up front.  

The Riv parts arrive today and with your help, I am hopeful we have a workable solution. 

Once I’ve given the bike a longer/proper test ride I will report back.