Roadini

[Joe Bernard]

The new Riv email introduces a new Clem-ish road bike on the horizon. Cool!

[drew]

Very cool and I think a very smart move.

[Lungimsam]

Glad to hear they are getting back to road bikes.

7/4/7, standard diameter tubing, cantis, nice curvy fork with eyelets a plenty, 2 degree max slope on the top tube, 40mm tires, 650b, dare I ask for low trail? Pleeeaaaase?

[Daniel D.]

caught me eye...

[Ginz]

Low trail, I would guess not. But I would also guess long reach calipers.

[Joe Bernard]

I would think it would be closer to a TIGed Sam, the idea being to bring current Riv design to a lower price point.

[Mark in Beacon]

Since the Clem is somewhat Sammish, I was going to say more of a TIGed Roadeo, but 700x40ish, or proportional wheel sizes (like the Clem.)

[Chris Birkenmaier]

Yeah that was the announcement that caught my attention.  Well, that and the fact that 50 tandems had pre-sold.  Anxious to see some details on the Roadini.  Been chewing on getting a Clem but I just built up one of the new orange Sams (very nice by the way) and didn't want to push my luck with my husband.  Interesting concept.

[Jim M.]

On Tuesday, July 19, 2016 at 10:26:41 PM UTC-7, Lungimsam wrote:

7/4/7, standard diameter tubing, cantis, nice curvy fork with eyelets a plenty, 2 degree max slope on the top tube, 40mm tires, 650b, dare I ask for low trail? Pleeeaaaase?

Have you ever ridden a bike built like that? If you are so convinced that a low trail bike is for you, there are several great builders who build wonderful lugged steel bikes in that style.

Grant has made his design philosophy quite clear. You're not going to get that bike from Riv. 

jim m

wc ca

[Lungimsam]

Yeah I know. But they have done everything else, so I thought they might put out something different this time.

Rivs are the prettiest bikes on earth in my opinion so if I got one of thise types of bikes designed that way I'd want it to be a Riv.

[Joe Bernard]

Rivs ride and handle the way they do because Grant designs them to do those things. He's been doing this for nigh on 30 years..he's not going to change it up now.

[Belopsky]

So get a custom $$$ one from Riv, or go to a builder who is a 'pro' at it

[Daniel D.]

jeebus christ nothing wrong with daydreaming about what you'd want to see made...

[Bill Lindsay]

While we are encouraging daydreaming, maybe Grant will finally expand to Carbon, too!

just kidding!

[Justin August]

Actually Grant has seen his designs change and evolve over those 30 years - that's one thing that many appreciate about him even if they don't agree with every change and evolutionary step. Those early Riv roads aren't the same as the Roadeos, nor does the current crop of long-chainstay bikes resemble the RB-T or anything else in Riv's history.

With all of that said - given his current evolutionary trajectory it would be shocking to see a #BQApproved bike released from Walnut Creek.

Which is fine with me.

-Justin

On Wednesday, July 20, 2016 at 10:11:01 AM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:

[Joe Bernard]

The designs have evolved to accommodate the high bars and big tire clearances he's always supported. Grant has never been a believer in low trail, and I suspect is tired of hearing about it.

[Philip Kim]

He was never a believer in long stays either - until fairly recently. It's not like it wouldn't make total sense as more Rivs are being front loaded, including a lot of the staff. I don't foresee going completely low trail, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was more mid to mid-high trail for neutral handling. This would allow his bikes to be configured in any number of ways and provide a lot of versatility. Something which Grant has consistently valued.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 07/20/2016 01:56 PM, Daniel D. wrote:

jeebus christ nothing wrong with daydreaming about what you'd want to see made...

Not at all, but you've got to be realistic about the source.  You shop Vlassic for pickles, not ice cream.

[Joe Bernard]

Jeebus nothing wrong with me having my own opinion on an opinion forum. I think low trail is overrated in general, and quite silly for a Rivendell in particular. Feel free to think otherwise.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 07/20/2016 01:52 PM, Belopsky wrote:
> So get a custom $$$ one from Riv, or go to a builder who is a 'pro' at it
>

Actually, the guy who builds the Riv customs also builds the Rene Herse
bikes... and they're exactly what you want.

[iamkeith]

He was never a believer in long stays either - until fairly recently. It's not like it wouldn't make total sense as more Rivs are being front loaded, including a lot of the staff. I don't foresee going completely low trail, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was more mid to mid-high trail for neutral handling. This would allow his bikes to be configured in any number of ways and provide a lot of versatility. Something which Grant has consistently valued.

In an effort to keep this discussion friendly and constructive, but without making the effort to research this question myself, does anybody know if there's been any sort of historical trending toward more fork offset / lower trail in Grant's/Riv's designs over the years?  It would seem to make sense to me, even if the goal is to retain a certain specific handling characteristic, because the bikes, the brake clearances and our preferences have all marched steadily toward  fatter tires.   A fatter (taller) tire adds mathematical trail for any given fork offset, even before you add in the "pneumatic" trail increase, which is something I don't understand but do believe in. 

[RichS]

Enjoy the anticipation. Whatever we think Roadini might be or what we would like it to be it'll probably be altogether different!

Richard

[John Hawrylak]

Can someone post a link to the e-mail.  I get the normal e-mails, only a July sale, Hunqapillar item.  Blug tlaks about low cadence pedaling.

Is the REFERENCED e-mail some special one???

7-4-7 STD tubing sounds great.  The Rivendells with the 8-5-8 OS tubing are as stiff as 10-7-10 STD.

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ 

On Tuesday, July 19, 2016 at 11:34:34 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:

[Philip Kim]

Well the reason I brought that up was because the Atlantis and older models had 40mm of rake, the Hunqapillar saw 48 and 50mm of rake, and the Appaloosa saw 52 and 54mm of rake. And they all have been around 71-71.5 degree head angles.

[Joe Bernard]

It's just a mention..literally no more than what's in my original post. Enjoy, people who enjoy things!

http://us1.campaign-archive1.com/?u=2090e897f8c7f8d7170a52bbd&id=d40c8150ac&e=e50f98992d

[Chris Lampe 2]

If you run Rivendell's bikes thru a trail calculator, you'll see that the more all-roundish bikes like the Atlantis, Bombadil & Hunqapillar have trail measurements in the mid 60's.  The more roadish bikes, like the A.H.H., Sam and Roadeo all hover around 60.  I think the head angles and rake on any given model are chosen to get those trail measurements.  I didn't calculate any of the newer bikes but I suspect they follow the same pattern.  

[Ron Mc]

it's only 5 words, we need at lest 1000 or a picture

[Bill Lindsay]

Maybe the Roadini will be the Frank Jones Sr.  

http://roscobubbe.tumblr.com/post/143358912901/rosco-1-sold-out

I don't know either way, but Frank Jones Sr is enough of a thing that they have a headbadge for it.  Maybe the Roadini is that thing?

[Joe Bernard]

Frank Jones Sr is the new low trail adventure bike with disc brakes and a carbon fork.

[Bill Lindsay]

You spelled crabon wrong.

The slogan is "it plainly planes!"

[Mark in Beacon]

That depends on what you mean by "fairly recently;" From a 2008 interview, talking about design a more stable small bike. (He also talks about stretching out big bikes in a similar manner.):
You can’t create a long front-center without making the bike nutty forward of the bottom bracket, but you can absolutely just lengthen the chainstays and make the bike less jerky that way. There are no drawbacks, either.
 
 I've seen other references from the fairly distant past regarding long chainstays, but lost the bookmarks.

The wonderful Clem Smith Jr. brochure has a nice schematic of how to balance a load on a bicycle--front, back, high, low -- to keep handling reasonable.

[Mark in Beacon]

Exactly.

https://youtu.be/YXiBgiFzKio

For me, it's almost inadvertently  not nice to veer so far afield on a wish list when the designer is, in a way,  known for not being preoccupied with those particular attributes.

Of course, comparing Rivendells to pickles and BQ-style bikes to ice cream is also somewhat suspect...

[Mark in Beacon]

The Roadini will be a fabulous, TIGed road bicycle that can miraculously extract itself from any pickle you may find yourself in. Obviously.

[Philip Kim]

in relation to over 30 years of bike designing, 8 years is pretty recent.

[William deRosset]

Dear Steve,

...And Mark Nobilette is the best one-man contract builder in the USA. He builds for René Herse, Rivendell, and for his own marque.

Creative in his own right, too, and a great fellow as well.

Disclosure: I have a René Herse, a Heron, and a growing pile of excellent Waterford-sourced Boulder Bicycles. I have relatively close personal ties to Mike Kone and Mark Nobilette, and Grant showed the way forward in the darkness of the late 1990's. The Heron Touring is his second-best hit in my opinion, second only to the Atlantis.

Best,

Will
William M deRosset
Fort Collins CO

[William deRosset]

Dear Mark,

Grant innovated/popularized the NORBA MTB geometry.

His MTB geometry features relatively short chainstays, and steeper-than-Excelsior angles, and they were distinct from the other mass-produced offerings of the 1980's, which copied the Repack bikes until they copied Grant.

His road bikes were pretty standard Italian stage-racing stuff, built on the stout side, though he bought the Guimard/Lemond high setback/long top tube approach to design, which fit me beautifully. He also, once he had fuller creative control, pushed for wider tires than was fashionable at the time.

He has since embraced swept-back bars and slacker geometry, and followed his Muse where it might take him.

Best,

Will
William M deRosset
Fort Collins Colorado

[Steve Palincsar]

On 07/22/2016 10:54 PM, William deRosset wrote:
> Dear Steve,
>
> ...And Mark Nobilette is the best one-man contract builder in the USA. He builds for René Herse, Rivendell, and for his own marque.
>
> Creative in his own right, too, and a great fellow as well.
>

I never doubted it, not for one second.

[Grant @ Rivendell]

To speculateurs and 'teuses:
Le Roadini..hm. I didn't realize we'd announced anything yet, but since le chat is out of the mussette, here's 100 percent of what there is to know about it:

1. It's not going to duplicate or overlap too much any existing bike except the Roadeo. No "85 percent Sam, but with lighter tubing."
2. We won't burden it with "The Thinker's Road bike," or other references to Rodin. Nothing to chuckle about or roll eyes about.
3. It certainly won't copy existing road geometries. It'll be well-designed from small to big, with the geometries that make our bikes feel like our bikes.
4. We are considering what braze-ons to include. The idea is to make it useful, but not to encourage (for example) MFL. Do we add those little front of the fork braze-ons for a Mark's Rack, or will that encourage monster front loading? Practically, it would be an ideal bike for a small bar-mount bag, like the Bar Tube or the now-gone BarSack rack (which wins the record for the highest ratio of expected success-to-actual sales. Dang, if we bring it back, it'll be a "last gasp" bring-back, and if you ride drop bars you should get it).
5. Same reach as Roadeo. Again here, Homer-Sam clearances will send the message that it's just a featherweight Du-All, and it won't be that.

It'll take a Jack Brown, but not with a fender. Sidepulls, but not the Silvers with all that reach. It may have a few more braze-ons than a Roadeo, but we haven't settled on that yet.

It won't be a "high-plane/low-trailer," but I recognize that there's a place for those bikes!

It will look really good and ride like a pure road bike ought to, and will be --- other stuff...AND

it may have one ultra-groovy feature never seen before on any of our bikes. This is my "take back" for being forced to reveal so much so early on a bike that is more of a plan than settled yet!

I really didn't know this was revealed, and I really don't mind that it was. Usually it's me who speaks too early, so whoever wrote that post--Roman or Dave, I guess--just made it easy for me. Anyway, it's a 2017'er if it happens, and thanks for all of your nice comments and fun guesses and enthusiasm!

Grant

[Bill Lindsay]

That sounds pretty sweet to me.  I like the MFL TLA especially. 

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

[Doug Van Cleve]

Sounds cool and seems unexpected (to me anyway ;^)  Thanks GP!

Doug

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[John Hawrylak]

On 7/23/16, GP wrote "We won't burden it with "The Thinker's Road bike," or other references to Rodin. .."

What about calling it the "Dobbie Gilles"???

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

[Abcyclehank]

I love the fact that RBW keeps a pulse on this list. The The fact that Grant or others go on record to inform, clarify and educate us officially and receive praise and criticism in some blend that equates 100%; is just another thing that make this company so great.

Ryan
West Michigan

[Chris Birkenmaier]

That concept sounds really appealing to me. I just bought a Sam so hopefully this will be my next Riv!

[Joe Bernard]

Somebody made a very quick mention in an email, then I started a gigantic thread about it. It's my fault, GP!

Joe "psst, hey buddy" Bernard
Vallejo, CA.

[Chris Birkenmaier]

I looked back on the email that had it mentioned. It was a July 19 update from Riv and it had Daves name down at the bottom. Just that one line was enough to catch my attention though

[Mark in Beacon]

Hi Will. I am aware of the tighter geo on the Bridgestone MBs, and the super light tubing spec'd on the MB-0. That was late eighties-early nineties.  My point was that the chainstay lengthening is not something all that recent, as was implied by Phillip (to peg it at 8 years ago means Grant came up with the notion the day of the interview). 70s-80s Masis have 41-42cm chainstays. The late 90s Heron is just shy of 46cm--not unheard of for touring bikes, but certainly no longer easy to find by that time. And of course, as you point out, models with swept-back bars allow this parameter to be pushed even further. You won't see a 50cm chainstay on the Roadini, though.

[Mark in Beacon]

Head badge ideas (trigger warning: some may not be practical and are presented for amusement purposes only):

Groucho Marx smoking a pickle

Houdini breaking a carbon fork with tight clearances.

Magician's hat with rabbit

Wagon wheel pasta

[Justin August]

At this point if the headbadge isn't an angry clown face, Hatchetman or bottle of Faygo we'll have assumed you've abandoned this Rivendell famuhlee.

-J

[Wayne Naha]

Hilarious.  Being from Michigan, I vote for the bottle of Faygo.  'Rock and Rye' flavor.

I am really digging this Roadini concept.  An inexpensive Rivendell road bike!  I can't wait to see it played out.

[Philip Kim]

Even if he thought about it 8 years ago, what we consider "long chain stays" weren't on Riv production bikes until the intro of the Betty/Chev, and lengthened even more with the clem and Appaloosa. Those are fairly recent models, no?

Semantics aside, I was suggesting that Grant is not above experimenting and adapting as long as it contains the Riv ride characteristics - comfortable, reliable, and durable. He has his core views, rooted in his vast years of experience, but his bikes haven't stayed stagnant.

[Belopsky]

Definitely Hatchetman AND Faygo. Woop woop.

[Robert Rutter]

I'm intrigued. "it may have one ultra-groovy feature never seen before on any of our bikes."

I recently acquired my first Rivendell, a Rambouillet, which I'm enjoying very much. I can't wait to see where this leads!

[iamkeith]

Oddly, other than that "one groovy feature" part, Grant's description sounded to me like he was describing the Rambouillet to a T. It also originated as a way to bring a Riv road bike to the masses at a more affordable price point. My hunch is that this might be the one model that you'd be hard pressed to justify, if you already own a Ram.

[dstein]

I'm not 100% familiar with the older models. Was the Rambouillet sold as a complete? Was that the one that was through QBP or something and sold at bike shops across the country?

I think the Roadini will be a huge hit. There's a really big market for people that want a Rivendell at a lower price tag, especially a road bike w/ drop bars. Big draw for new Rivendell customers hoping for something at a lower price tag (though I'm sure there are bunch of people on here with a Rivendell or two already that are interested). 

[Joe Bernard]

I think it's great that Riv will have a lower cost workhorse road bike. The price should line up close to what a Bstone RB-1 went for all those years ago.

[iamkeith]

I think the Heron might have been a QBP joint venture (?), but the Ram was definitely sold as completes in various bike shops. Here's the brochure:

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/rambouillet/rambflyer/index.html

[Joe Bernard]

You're thinking of the Romulus and Redwood, which were complete, slightly cheaper versions of the Ram. One cost-cutter was they were one color..no cream fills on those frames. A Romulus was my first Riv, which I bought from a shop in Danville, CA. The next QBP venture was the Bleriot, which was a cheaper Saluki/Homer.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 07/25/2016 01:07 AM, dstein wrote:

I'm not 100% familiar with the older models. Was the Rambouillet sold as a complete?

no

Was that the one that was through QBP or something and sold at bike shops across the country?

no

I think the Roadini will be a huge hit. There's a really big market for people that want a Rivendell at a lower price tag, especially a road bike w/ drop bars. Big draw for new Rivendell customers hoping for something at a lower price tag (though I'm sure there are bunch of people on here with a Rivendell or two already that are interested). 

On Sunday, July 24, 2016 at 8:24:23 PM UTC-7, iamkeith wrote:

Oddly, other than that "one groovy feature" part, Grant's description sounded to me like he was describing the Rambouillet to a T.  It also originated as a way to bring a Riv road bike to the masses at a more affordable price point.  My hunch is that this might be the one model that you'd be hard pressed to justify, if you already own a Ram.

that was my thought as well, right down to the soul-searching about rack support braze-ons

[Grant @ Rivendell]

Roadini will be more of a "Slim CLEM" road bike. We'll toe the line (as I've said) btw useful braze-ons and "sending the wrong message about what the bike is for" braze-ons—and the same for clearances/tire compatibility. <---those will be Roadeo-like.

The Rambouillet and Romulus were lugged to the teeth, and that can't happen with a lowISH cost bike. Lugs are so so much more expensive to buy and build with, and yet we're not going to make a generic TIG bike, so we'll have some expensive crafty stuff on it, too.

 Putting together a bike (well, frame..) like this and trying to please all is like ordering the same pizza for a table of twenty and nailing perfection for every eater. Ultimately we're going to leave off the pineapple to the dismay of some, and include gorgonzola and anchovies to the delight of a few, and it could be the whole table is nonplussed!

But---I promise there will be a reason for everything there and missing, and if you either already have a road bike and love it, or don't have one but are curious, the Roadini will worth a look at. OK now--that's enough "balls in the air" for now. We have too much going on. G

[James Warren]

.

On Jul 25, 2016, at 4:41 AM, Steve Palincsar <pali...@his.com> wrote:

I'm not 100% familiar with the older models. Was the Rambouillet sold as a complete?

no

There was a brief period where the Rambouillet (blue) was sold complete. I have the brochure.

It replaced the Romulus/Redwood complete when Riv decided it was too much to sell both Ram framesets AND Romulus/Redwood bikes.

This was a bit over ten years ago, I think. Riv made an announcement online that the Ram was being discontinued, and they would just offer Romulus (and maybe Redwood?) at it's great price, complete. The public outcry over this was loud (within our subculture). Whether responding to the outcry or not, Riv changed the plan and decided to end the bike named "Romulus" (and Redwood), and instead created a complete Ram bike offering to go alongside the Ram frameset. The parts on it were much like the Rom, maybe identical: 46-36-24 crank, Shimano long reach Tiagra brakes, indexed 9-speed triple, Barend shifters. Tires were 28, I believe. I think the price was a bit higher than Rom price from before, but still a very good deal. (Ram frame's details made it a little fancier than Rom, while functionally about the same.) The Ram bike was offered in even sizes, including 64, 66, and 68 cm. The brochure is very nice, which is why I saved it. The cover shows the bike being ridden as a road bike on a dirt road. Idyllic. There is a parts list in the brochure.

A Riv classic! Ram (bike or frame) was sidelined a few years later partly by the easy ability to do even bigger tires on a road bike, an ease which was enhanced by brakes like the Silver, the Tektro 559, and some by Paul. The Ram was not made for the reach of these exciting new brakes that Riv was focusing on, and around '07-08, the AHH started to nudge it out of the lineup by virtue of AHH's versatility through tire clearance. No, they are not the same frame, but Riv could only offer so much, so they took things in the direction of bigger tires and put the Ram to sleep. It woke up once very briefly (a last small batch), and has been sleeping for 7 or 8 years since.

In Ram's absence, AHH and Hillborne clearly performed the duty of versatile/efficient bike, but the other side of Ram's personality, that of "road bike" was not in the Riv lineup for a couple of years. This was void was filled starting in early 2010 or so with the Roadeo.

-James W.

[James Warren]

One correction: the granny/grandpa chainring on the complete Ram was 26T, not 24T, as I just wrote.

Still, lowest geared road bike you could get stock.

Sent from my iPhone

[Patrick Moore]

 Putting together a bike (well, frame..) like this and trying to please all is like ordering the same pizza for a table of twenty and nailing perfection for every eater. Ultimately we're going to leave off the pineapple to the dismay of some, and include gorgonzola and anchovies to the delight of a few, and it could be the whole table is nonplussed! 

I'm sorry.

Patrick Moore

[RoadieRyan]

Is it just me or does anyone else look at the name Roadini and think of Jawas shouting Utini! ?....yeah probably just me.  Looking forward to see the design

[Jeremy Till]

Grant @ Rivendell wrote:

 Putting together a bike (well, frame..) like this and trying to please all is like ordering the same pizza for a table of twenty and nailing perfection for every eater. Ultimately we're going to leave off the pineapple to the dismay of some, and include gorgonzola and anchovies to the delight of a few, and it could be the whole table is nonplussed!

 

Well said, Grant.  Something to remember anytime we get too deep into pulling apart the spec of a new bike.  

I, for one, am intrigued by the description of the Roadini, but honestly, I already have a "Clemmish road bike" in my recently stripped down and drop-barred Long Haul Trucker.  Still, can't wait to see it.  

[islaysteve]

And, as someone recently asked on the facebook page for this group:  Is there any love for the Bleriot?  This was the bike that resulted from a collaboration between RBW and QBP, and was available both from Rivendell and any QBP dealer from, I believe, 2006 to 2008.  Dealers could also offer it as a complete, I'm not sure if RBW did.  It was brazed in Taiwan and easily takes Pair-Motos and even wider tires. I refer you to cyclofiend's excellent webpage on the Bleriot: http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/bleriot/index.html.  

I count myself very lucky to have acquired a Bleriot several years ago and it may very well be the last bike I buy.  It fits me perfectly, rides great, inspires confidence, and is also "lugged to the teeth."  I will be interested to see the Roadini and to compare it with the Bleriot.  Cheers, Steve

(in heat-wave Maryland)

[Lungimsam]

I love my Bleriot!!!
Traditional shaped frame and that metallic aqua color just gleams in the sunshine! So bright!
Luxuriant lugs and cream paint windows and headtube are so gorgeous! I think the decals are the coolest of all Riv decals. Airplanes, trails, and swoopy letters.

Heres mine in the ride in last weeks' heatwave:
https://www.flickr.com/gp/70237737@N00/CTSu7M

[RoadieRyan]

You are in fact lucky sir! I missed the boat on the Bleriot and it haunts me to this day... ok maybe not haunt but it does bum me out and I hope that someday a 57 or 59 comes my way.

[Joe Bernard]

Bleriots are great bikes with awesome graphics - I had one - but honestly you can equal or beat it with a Sam or Appaloosa. Maybe not at the Bleriits original price, but that was a good 10 years ago (and there are used Sams around).

[Justin August]

I loved my Bleriot. I love my Saluki even more. I definitely should have held onto it instead of selling it.

-Justin

[Zach Duval]

There's quite a nice deal on a freshly painted one on eBay currently...

[Fullylugged]

well, close description of the stock built Ram but not quite. 32 paselas were standard and fit with fenders. 37 paselas fit without fenders. The crankset was Sugino XD 48/36/26. The shifters were DA barends, 105 triple, Ultegra 9 speed. Wheels were Arraya, not machined, with DB spokes. Nitto post, stem and bars. 3 bottle mounts. You added the pedals and saddle of choice. Blue was also the only color with 50 and 52 size frames using 26" wheels. Very nice Japanese tubing.
In '07, RBW announced that Ram was "taking a nap" due to exchange rates, and it has never woken up. Doesn't look likely that it ever will. In total about 1,300 Rams were made as framesets or completes so it was one of the higher production bikes. Colors were, in turn, Orange, French Blue, Green.

[Tim Gavin]

Yes, that Bleriot on eBay is interesting but not too bad.  The painted racks are over the top, ATMO.  But, without the racks I kinda dig the new colorway.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rivendell-Bleriot-Frameset-size-57-Nitto-Touring-Racks-Custom-Paint-Job-/302023298909?hash=item4651fdcf5d:g:decAAOSw-YVXlYQw

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 10:14 PM, Zach Duval <zrd...@hotmail.com> wrote:

There's quite a nice deal on a freshly painted one on eBay currently...

[James Warren]

It did wake up once after the initial sleeping announcement of 2007. In 2009, one final green batch was sold, and then it went back to sleep. The late green ones (but not all the green ones) came with mini-rack braze-ons mid-stay and mid-fork.

> On Jul 27, 2016, at 4:00 AM, Fullylugged wrote:
>
> In '07, RBW announced that Ram was "taking a nap" due to exchange rates, and it has never woken up. Doesn't look likely that it ever will.
>

[Justin August]

I believe AlexsCycles in Japan has some for sale currently as well.

Which is weird.

-Justin

[Bruce Herbitter]

Yes!  For 1,560 USD for the frame set which is a great value.  I see several sizes listed.  Blue and green depending.    

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[Lungimsam]

But are they legit? I dont know if RBW sold tgeir bikes in the Japan market?

[Justin August]

Someone here bought one and it was legit.

If I was wanting a 650b road bike that was classically styled, mid-high trail and a Riv I'd snatch one up with some long-reach brakes.

-Justin

[Joe Bernard]

That wouldn't work. In order to convert a 700c bike to 650b with long-reach brakes, you'd have to start with one using short-reach. The Ram uses mid-reach.

[masmojo]

I am often tempted to do a real "road" bike. I have and had a few road frames over the years. Many times I've been nearly finished only to steal the parts for something else or sell it on. I was strongly tempted by the revived Fat Slim Chance revival pre sale, but the price ultimately put me off.
I'll watch this, maybe the Roadini will ultimately push me over the hump!?
Regarding, low trail & long chainstays, while both certainly the have their place, as Grant eludes this probably isn't the ideal vehicle for either of those concepts (or maybe in moderation).
I do find the ideal of a pure, simple road bike with widish tires appealing! Maybe a good gravel bike? That would be as close to trendy as Riv ever got, but then I would say gravel grindings kinda been their thing for a long time, so maybe it's a sort of homecoming!?

[David Banzer]

A bunch of people have converted Rams to 650b. I've done it successfully with my Redwood. I'm keeping 2 wheelsets/brakesets (700c/650b) to swap between the two as needed. I have some WTB Horizon tires on the way which (fingers-crossed) will be the perfect fit - I'd need to crimp chainstays slightly to fit Compass SBHs.
David
Chicago

[Philip Kim]

i've seen a 700c hillborne converted to 650b. dunno what brakes were used though,

[Joe Bernard]

Maybe with really long centerpulls. I don't think it can be done with Silver/Tektro sidepulls.

[Justin August]

https://flic.kr/p/dvLXEF
Some sort of side pull.

-Justin

[Toshi Takeuchi]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/42771204@N00/8176967200/in/album-72157631926815235/

Here's my Ram with Tektros, 650b Synergies and thin V-brake type pads.  When I switched to A23 rims, I needed extra reach and converted the rear brake to DiaCompe Centerpulls, but the front works fine with the Tektros and A23s still.

Toshi in Oakland

On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 2:24 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Maybe with really long centerpulls. I don't think it can be done with Silver/Tektro sidepulls.

[Joe Bernard]

Well, technically you're right because it works well enough for whoever is riding that Ram; technically I'm right because those pads look like they'll hit rubber. I wouldn't ride it like that, but it's not my bike.