Atlantis evolution?

[David]

Super newbie question here, but need to be sure fairly soon here for a purchase... can you fine folks provide me with a quick, bulleted evolution of the Atlantis across the three iterations of the frame?  Where it was made, this one has longer stays, etc.?  I'm sure this onto is on the website, but sometimes stuff's kind of hidden on there and I often find myself digging and digging for specific info I need.  Many, many thanks.

[Joe Bernard]

Short version, others here will know more details:

Original was built in Japan by Toyo, I believe start year was 1999. Later iterations gained braze-ons, lost pointy headtube lugs and were built by Waterford in USA. All of these came with 26" or 700C wheels, all had mostly-flat toptubes. 

There was an update in the final Waterford run which included slightly longer stays and some smaller frames got 650B wheels. 

Production shifted to Taiwan a few years ago to the current version with much longer stays and a sloping toptube. Sizing is different from the Toyo/Waterford bikes. 

Joe Bernard

[Bill Lindsay]

The original poster said he "often find myself digging and digging for specific info I need"

What specific info do you need?  It sounds like you are considering buying a particular secondhand Atlantis.  For that reason you want information about that bike, not all Atlantis' over all time.  Get specific, and I'm sure we can help you.  Take a picture, share a link, a serial number.  What info do you have and what info are you missing?

Does it have 650B wheels?  It's newer

Does it have 26" wheels?  It's older (unless it's a tiny frame size)

Does it have 700c wheels?  That doesn't determine anything (unless it's a medium frame size)

Do the chainstay look weirdly long to people who are used to looking at bikes?  It's newer

Does it have a curvy second top tube?  It's big and newer

Does it have a practically flat top tube?  It's older

Is the top tube length short enough that a drop-bar cockpit is sensible?  It's older (with a tiny window of exception)

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA 

On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 10:32:35 AM UTC-7 David wrote:

[Joe Bernard]

As pertains to the two 53cm bikes on Ebay:

One (with "2" on the seattube) is an early Toyo with pointy lugs. The one Matt at Crust owned is a smaller frame from Taiwan. 

I'm 79PBH and could ride the Toyo bike with drops/moustache or the MIT with pullback bars. 

[David]

Thanks, Joe. You provided exactly what I was looking for:  a quick evolution of all Atlantis' over time.

[Joe Bernard]

Happy to help, man! I've been following the Riv saga from the beginning and have become increasingly aware that a whole dang lot of time has passed, and newer converts to these lovely bicycles don't have the institutional memory of this stuff I carry around in my head. I know stuff! 😁

Joe "except for all the stuff I forgot" Bernard 

[dougP]

David:

If you are looking at a specific bike, the serial number is on the bottom of the bottom bracket, & will start with "AT..."; followed by some digits.  You may be able to get a clue from the sn.  I don't know if Rivendell kept track of serial numbers especially in the early days.  The nominal frame size, wheel size & chainstay length are important to determine vintage. 

dougP

[Scott G.]

The first version had curvy chain stays (starlight?), steeper head angle and less rear tire clearance.

2nd version had chain stays with one curve, more tire clearance, and  plus .5 degree on the head angle.

Both were Toyo built.

[Hugh Smitham]

Joe,

Op asked and you delivered. Very succinct Sir.

Hugh n LA

On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 11:09:46 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

[Hugh Smitham]

Joe, I've been wondering about something. Do you know the timelines for the various iterations? 1. Toyo 1999-?  2.Waterford and later longish chain stay iteration Year to 2017? 3.  MIT version I believe is 2018- to present.

I remember my 2003 Atlantis had a <2> on the seat tube and recall reading that it was the 2nd Toyo run or batch within the Toyo timeline but have no idea what would have changed between the 1999 to my 2003 model? 

Hugh n LA

On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 11:09:46 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

[Joe Bernard]

Hugh, I don't know those details but you might find it here. Cyclofiend (hosts this list) has a treasure trove of Riv history. 

http://cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis/index.html

[Hugh Smitham]

Joe,

Thanks. Jim's RR's stop at Summer 2000, there's some mention around 2009 but really less than complete historical account of the Atlantis. I feel a project brewing.

Hugh n LA

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/ZxwFXhVvo8M/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1b3f62dc-4297-438c-90b8-a7f1c4b66690n%40googlegroups.com.

[dougP]

Hugh:

Somewhere I read that the "2" on the seat tube is a reference to the Rivendell Atlantis being the second use of the name, the first being an Atlantis made by Bridgestone but never brought to the US. 

We need our resident Rivendell archivist (the guy with a garage full) to comment.  My understanding is all the Toyo ones had same geometry & only differed in details such as pointy lugs, roundy lugs and number of braze ons.  Production shifted to Waterford sometime around 2015 & that may have been addressed in a Riv e-mail or Blahg.  It was either 2016 or 2017 when I rode the Waterford 650B that I believe was a 56.  It felt different than my 58 but I put it off to new bike components.  I asked Roman what had changed & I think he mentioned wheelbase, but it still looked the same.  Then when production went to Taiwan in 2018 (?) the long chainstays were obvious.  I rode one of those & was favorably impressed.

Some of this is from fuzzy recollection but I think the general facts are OK.

dougP

[Hugh Smitham]

Doug,

Well that would make sense regarding the number two. I just finished reading that riv reader pertaining to the Bridgestone ode to Singer Frenchy bike designed by Mr. Watanabe. 

As far as I can tell there was a MIT version after (between) the Waterford run and the current MIT run. I think the distinction was shorter top tube but similarly long chain stays. Just curious the years.

Doug your memory has always served me pretty darn well :)

Joe, It's funny but If my memory serves me it was Jim's cyclofiend archive site that originally turned me on to Rivendell. 

My Genesis, back in 2007 I was riding a pinarello, a small bike shop in downtown LA I used to visit, a mechanics there told me about Waterford, He basically said if you want to find a really sweet bike! Go take a look at Waterford. Researching Waterford and at the time blown away by the high cost somehow led me to Jim's site and consequently Rivendell, which was IMHO a great value. And I still think they're a great value.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a97ddf32-265b-4e20-9bcd-b43d4c3431a6n%40googlegroups.com.

[Scott G.]

The Harris page has the specs on the first batch of Atlantis.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/atlantis.html#tubing

Geometry is a bit different in several of the sizes.

[Hugh Smitham]

I'll check it out Scott.

I just got off the phone with James at Rivendell and we agreed that one of the largest changes from the first batch of MIT to the current batch of MIT is that the 56 cm was 650B and the current 55cm is 700c. The first batch of MIT had a shorter top tube as well making a drop bar more feasible. The new batch of the MIT as you can see drop the 56 cm altogether.

I'm going to shoot an email to Grant Just to try to get a better year understanding of each iteration and maybe some of the geometry changes he made. We'll see this will be an interesting exchange.

Hugh n LA

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/ZxwFXhVvo8M/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d96f8258-9024-4645-aa25-aaf31d5c00b6n%40googlegroups.com.

[dougP]

That Harris page is interesting.  It shows a 58 cm (my size) as having a 59 cm TT.  I have a couple of Atlantis brochures from around when I got mine (2003) that show a 58 with a 58.5 TT.  I can understanding rounding 58.5 up to 59.  I just measured mine @ 56 cm or maybe 56.5 cm, center to center, head tube to seat tube, along the slope of the top tube.  No way to finagle to 58. 

The point is Rivendell made running changes that were fairly incremental & non-consequential.  The big re-design was going to longer chainstays a few years ago.  The brochures are un-dated, and both list the 68 cm size that Harris says "coming 2001".  Whereas other manufacturers would use subtle geo changes to call it a "new & improved" bike (along with the latest fad color), Rivendell stuck with the same name & paint scheme and kept improving the basic products. 

It would be fun to have a list of geometries by serial number but that info is probably non-existent.

dougP

[Jared Wilson]

I was trying to figure out much of this same info a couple weeks back, it was hard to come up with a definitive timeline based on readily available info. 

This is why I agree with changing model names when deviating away from the bikes original form, it draws a clear line on what's what.

The info is no longer of much use to me other than educational, but I'm glad to see a more in depth timeline now being established.

Jared in SLO

[Hugh Smitham]

On Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 3:19 PM Jared Wilson <duh...@gmail.com> wrote:

I was trying to figure out much of this same info a couple weeks back, it was hard to come up with a definitive timeline based on readily available info. 

This is why I agree with changing model names when deviating away from the bikes original form, it draws a clear line on what's what.

I for one am glad they stuck with the name/model. 

It could have been solved by a running  data base/records using serial numbers, but I figure a small company like Rivendell that had only been in business for 6 years the last thing they were thinking beyond survival was  whether some nerds would want to know how the model changed through the preceding years.

The info is no longer of much use to me other than educational, but I'm glad to see a more in depth timeline now being established.

It's not that useful to me either other than just through pure curiosity.

I don't know how committed I am to this but the idea of creating a small page devoted to the history of the Atlantis would be cool. Maybe in Google docs where beyond the present it can be updated?

Hugh

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/26b52a03-4e33-425f-b50e-de7bc26f41fbn%40googlegroups.com.

[Eric Daume]

The top tube length listed would be effective top tube, measured horizontally, not along the tube. That will lengthen the result a bit. 

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/df01ad02-60d7-4cae-a823-9a2199224281n%40googlegroups.com.