Gus Boots a-go-go

[David Ross]

I found myself on an unplanned ride today with my Gus Boots Willsen, and let me say, it’s a real mountain bike—no doubt about it. Sure, it’s also a hillibike and a damn good cruiser, but until now, I’d been treating it like a dad gravel rig, cruising along the easy paths. Today, though, I was out there with a buddy on a full suspension beast, and the Gus held its ground. 

But let’s talk about the shifting. Friction shifting is a cruel mistress. I found myself hesitating to shift, worried I’d miss a gear while ascending, so I sort of grunted it out in a select few gears. It’s the only ride I’ve been on in a while that made me lust for indexed shifting. The 2.25-inch cross-country tires I’m currently running? Not ideal. A wider tire with lower pressure would have been a game changer, no question about it. Surprisingly, my 70 degree swept handlebars were an actual blessing as they allowed me to keep my weight back while descending. 

Thank the gods for the SQ Labs 602 saddle—padded and ready for the chaos of rocky terrain. I shudder to think what it would have been like on one of my Brooks saddles. I was seated, navigating through a minefield of rocks, without a dropper post to save my undercarriage from abuse. 

I’ve ridden my fair share of 90s mountain bikes, and I’ll tell you this: the Gus is a more capable singletrack machine with its improved geometry. Today’s ride opened my eyes. The Gus is more than just a hillibike. It’s an all-rounder, ready for whatever madness the trail throws at you, so long as you’re keeping the rubber on the ground. 

[Tom]

Agree 100% with " Friction shifting is a cruel mistress. I found myself hesitating to shift, worried I’d miss a gear while ascending, so I sort of grunted it out in a select few gears. It’s the only ride I’ve been on in a while that made me lust for indexed shifting."

I used to have a grilver Clem H with 2.25 knobbies and a Jones bar.  I could sorta get used to how long it was, but the singletrack I have access to has enough rooty, quick turning little ascents that made me really want an index-shifter on the rear.  Would highly recommend setting it up that way for those in similar situations.

Tom

[NYCbikeguy]

dross,

I'm a bit ambivalent with friction shifting too!

The only friction shifters I will universally use is for the front derailleur. I got myself some high quality 9s XTR m970 rear shifters, coupled with rapid rise XTRs of different generations (m950-m970) on several rivs and they all shift like butter with no issues. 

What kind of tires would you prefer on the rocky terrain? 

I'm sure the Ryde Andra40 rims on your Gus are more than capable of taking a beating and staying true. 

Best,

IY

NYC/CT

[Brian Turner]

This is exactly why I set my Gus up 1x11 with a Microshift indexed thumbie. Normally I prefer friction, but I don’t really want to fiddle with trimming shifts on a trail ride.

Brian

Lex KY 

On Aug 24, 2024, at 1:58 PM, NYCbikeguy <iyi...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Richard Rose]

Could not agree more. Yes, 2.6” Honchos at 23-24psi is great. With you on the bars but my sweet spot for sweep us 50 degrees. Control is fantastic. My B17 actually works very good for me even through the rocky / rooty sections. Of course I “float” above the saddle quite a bit. As for the shifting; mine got a lot better with a switch to rapid rise. It’s just so nice to start up a hill knowing how easy it is to get an easier gear. 

As I’ve said before - Gus is a MOUNTAIN BIKE!

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 24, 2024, at 12:10 PM, David Ross <dros...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[jaredwilson]

Love to hear about your adventures with Gus, and couldn't agree more that upsizing your tires will yield even better results.

I'm running 2.5' Ehlines on my Susie and have been very happy with them, seems like the sweet spot for these hilli-mountain bikes.

Keep us posted on your refinements.

jared

SC, CA

[Brian Turner]

+1 on the 2.5” Ehlines. I’ve been super happy with them for dirt and pavement.

On Aug 24, 2024, at 3:20 PM, jaredwilson <duh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Love to hear about your adventures with Gus, and couldn't agree more that upsizing your tires will yield even better results.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/0f3c6791-4af3-4c3a-bf32-6f6583c96bfbn%40googlegroups.com.

[jaredwilson]

Yeah, Ehlines rule, just make sure to get the 2.5 inch ones, not the 2.5 foot ones like I mentioned, the Susie/Gus can't handle all that girth ;)

jared

[David Ross]

I’m currently running American Classic in 2.25 inches with tubes. I’m definitely going wider and tubeless soon! I just switched to an indexed Microshift shifter and I think it’s going to help hugely in single track. 

[Nick Shoemaker]

I'm not a Gus'r yet, but definitely a big fan of big tires on trail Rivs! I've maxed my Clem out with 2.6" Mezcals, which are fantastic even with tubes. Curious if any of you other Hillibikers have made the switch from tubes to tubeless and how noticeable the difference was? Also, anyone running anything wider than a 2.6 on their Gus/Susie - what's the absolute max that will fit?

Re: friction on trails, I definitely ride with the mindset of "adjustable singlespeed" - basically only shifting preemptively when I know an upcoming section will be steeper/longer than I care to 'grunt up.' I also lower my saddle an inch or so (the QR that Riv sells is great!) when I'm on singletrack versus my ideal pedaling height to allow for a bit more wiggle room - I've never owned a bike with a dropper, so I'm fortunate to not know what I'm missing there...

Happy trails!

Nick

Big 2.6s on a Big Clem, pictured in its natural habitat...

[Ryan Frahm]

That Clem with 2.6 looks great Nick! How tight are they? I had the 2.5” Ehline tires on my Susie and had lots of frame clearance, but my tire was almost rubbing my brake cables. I think the posts were welded too low on the frame I had though because I’ve seen others with lots of clearance with the same brakes. 

[Brian Turner]

I am running tubeless 2.5" Teravail Ehline tires on my 54cm (medium) Gus. I enjoy the tubeless setup because when I ride local mtb trails I typically drop the pressure down to 20-24 lbs psi. without worry of pinching, and it allows for a cushy ride. Then, I'll inflate them back up to 32-35 psi for riding around town. The Ehlines are a great balance of relatively low rolling resistance and low noise for pavement, but great for traction in dirt. As for clearance, it really depends on the tire and most importantly which brake you're using. I'm using Motolites, so I only have about < 1cm of clearance from the quick release arm. No room for any larger tires, or fenders with this particular brake / tire combo.

Brian

Lex KY

[Richard Rose]

I guess I will echo most of what others have said here. Interestingly (?) I have a Gus & a Clem. I run 2.6” Honchos on the Gus, tubeless. It makes for a superb MTB. I got rid of my full suspension Carbon MTB complete with carbon everything & Sram electronic shifting. I prefer riding my Gus with 2x7 gearing & Silver shifters. Crazy I know but I am much more comfortable. I did consider going indexed but a rapid rise solved most of my shifting issues. Going uphill & needing a downshift is no longer a problem. I think 2.8’s would fit but might need to deflate to remove wheels. The 2.6” works really good on my semi rocky/rooty trails.

I also just replaced my 55mm tires on the Clem even though I loved them with 43’s. I was kind of curious about the smaller tires due to increased time on pavement. So far I am on the fence. 43’s are very quiet & the bike does feel a bit more spritely. But, if I do veer off road it’s not as good.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 27, 2024, at 11:32 AM, Brian Turner <brok...@gmail.com> wrote:



I am running tubeless 2.5" Teravail Ehline tires on my 54cm (medium) Gus. I enjoy the tubeless setup because when I ride local mtb trails I typically drop the pressure down to 20-24 lbs psi. without worry of pinching, and it allows for a cushy ride. Then, I'll inflate them back up to 32-35 psi for riding around town. The Ehlines are a great balance of relatively low rolling resistance and low noise for pavement, but great for traction in dirt. As for clearance, it really depends on the tire and most importantly which brake you're using. I'm using Motolites, so I only have about < 1cm of clearance from the quick release arm. No room for any larger tires, or fenders with this particular brake / tire combo.

Brian

Lex KY

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[Patrick Moore]

Nick: As a potential Clem buyer I'm curious to know whether your wheels are 650c or 700c or 559 bsd, and (#2) how wide the 2.6" tires actually measure on your rims ... and how wide those rims are, whether IW or OW.

I think a great deal of buying a Clem; 2 things make me hesitate (well, 3 things: I'm still semi-supporting my daughter who is trying to get her first real job, meanwhile planning all sorts of interesting, non-income-generating programs): whether I can tolerate some sort of non-drop bar well enough that it doesn't mar the otherwise wonderful experience that others all say that riding the Clem is (this is both from within and from without the RBW list), and second, whether I can get fat enough tires into the frame to make the bike at least tolerably useful on our sandy riverside trails.

2.6" = 66 mm which is more than wide enough if the 2.6" is real-world width. I'd be happy with 60 real-world-mm tires and daydream of setting up a low-budget all-rounder beater Clem with, say, 26" or 700c Big Apples. Do your Mezcals measure a true >60 mm?

Thanks.

[Patrick Moore]

I saw others' posts about >2.35" tires on their Clems, so I extend the same questions to all.

If I get a Clem I'll use -- what should I call them? Road tires? Non-knobbies? -- durable +/- 60 mm near-slicks for decent pavement rolling as well as decent sand float. I used the Big Apple for years and it's a worthy ~inexpensive tire for all rounder use that, besides, is almost goathead-proof with tubes and without sealant -- I live in goathead land.

Pressure: I am repeatedly surprised by the high pressures others use. I put 18 or so PSI in my 700C Big Apples for combined pavement and sandy dirt use and once road them as low as 10 psi by mistake (tubes): that worked very well on dirt and I didn't notice it until I got back onto pavement. I use 18 to 20 psi in my much, much lighter and much mush narrower 49 mm RH Oracle Ridges, regular casing, for nice pavement cornering and sufficient sand float (50 mm is minimum for our sand).

Patrick "Pavement: 27 mm Elk Passes els at 50-55/55-60; 42 mm Naches Passes els at 30-35/35-40; to run 22 mm Michelin Pro Races at 80/90; all at 170-175 lb" Moore

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[David Ross]

I’ve heard that some 2.8 tires will work on a Gus, but I’m not sure. I just bought a pair of 29x2.6 Mezcals for my Stooge and am waiting on some new rotors to arrive before I install them. In my humble opinion, the Mezcal is the single greatest tire ever made. 

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[Paul M]

I guess that 29 x 2.25 is "underbiking". ;-)

[Nick Shoemaker]

 @frahm: Attaching a couple of pictures of the tire clearance. I would describe it as 'fine' on the front and 'a bit tight' on back. I also have a 2.35 Mezcal that I have used to provide more mud clearance in the back (attaching a pic of that one in action for fun), but it certainly feels noticeably smaller than the 2.6. Brakes are Shimano T4000, cassette is the Big Jim/Sride 7-speed 13-42.

@Patrick: My Clem is a size 64 on 700c Cliffhangers ( 25mm internal width) running tubes - I didn't have calipers on hand, but my measuring tape estimate came to ~65-66mm for the 29x2.6" Mezcal. It certainly runs bigger than the 29x2.6" Nobby Nic that I used for a short time, which is my only other point of reference. I also totally agree with you on unpaved tire pressures - back in my 'racy' days I would run ~16psi on my tubeless 26x2.4" - even 20psi resulted in a noticeable hit to traction. I'm about 20lbs heaver now (140>160), but I'm guessing I had the big Mezcals down to ~20psi with tubes on my last ride and they felt great.

@dross: I'm totally drinking the Mezcal kool-aid now, too - my only gripe is that the gray sidewall & graphics aren't the prettiest.....but a little mud fixes that quickly!

[R. Alexis]

Patrick,

What non drop bars are you considering? The Alt-Bars that are out there seem to work well. At least for me. I have a set of early Jones titanium H-Bars with the J bend on my Waterford 1400 mountain bike and a set of Surly Open Bars on the Gary Fisher Gemini tandem mounted on the front. Both bars are comfortable. I have several bikes sporting Wilderness Trail Bikes Dirt Drops that I really like and my Schwinn Voyageur has a Nitto flared drop bar (014) on it. 

Thanks,

Reginald Alexis 

[Ryan Frahm]

@Nick, thank you so much for the pictures! That looks like a blast to ride! I have a 59 Lime Olive frameset that was picked up by my mother in law today. She is local to the seller and I can get a way better shipping rate. Excited to build it up! I was looking at that exact tire but went for some Ultradynamico Mars’ to be safe on clearance. Even more excited to have it shipped to me now!

[iamkeith]

On Tuesday, August 27, 2024 at 7:43:00 AM UTC-6 Nick Shoemaker wrote:

I'm not a Gus'r yet, but definitely a big fan of big tires on trail Rivs! I've maxed my Clem out with 2.6" Mezcals, which are fantastic even with tubes. Curious if any of you other Hillibikers have made the switch from tubes to tubeless and how noticeable the difference was? Also, anyone running anything wider than a 2.6 on their Gus/Susie - what's the absolute max that will fit?

I have 2.8s, mounted on 42 external/33 internal rims, on my Susie.  I built the wheels while I was waiting for the frame (first-run) to arrive, so didn't try anything more "normal" first, but now sort of regret it.  I almost always want "more" tire, but this is one of the first times that I've ever had a bike that accommodates fatter tires than I need.  KInd of nice for a change.  I sort of experienced the same thing with my All-Rounder, where I realized that 1.95s are better than 2.3s or 2.1s - but, truthfully, I was pushing clearances with the larger tires in that case.  In the case of the Susie, the 2.8s fit the frame just fine.   It's just that it doesn't handle well.   Too much pneumatic self-steer, and the center of gravity feels way too high - not like a Rivendell at all.  (Although the newer, lugged version is a bit lower, so maybe better with a bigger tire?)

My plan is to get some 2.6 tires.  I've been looking at the Maxis Ikon, mostly because it will fill a gap or offer some variety to my other bikes that have either knobbier or slicker treads.  I'm hoping I don't have to go even smaller, because my rims are so wide that narrower tires might end up with a wierd profile.   The only reason I haven't done it yet is because i have those expensive TPU tubes, which aren't reported to do well if you switch to a smaller volume tire.  (I guess they stretch, and don't have elastic memory.)  And I REALLY like the tubes.

[Patrick Moore]

Breaking off from the Gus thread to think out loud about a Clem addition to my stable.

Tire width: thanks, Nick; that's really good to know. 

Has the Clem design been altered recently to allow fatter tires? I have vague memories of asking about max tire width several times before and hearing that ~50 mm was max ...?

Just looked at the frame specs: max width for all sizes is given as 55 mm? Is this just proactive conservatism?

Bar: Alexis: I'd really like to try something like the Billie or Choco or Albatross flipped upside down; or perhaps a much narrower North Road ditto, since I dislike really wide bars; but I've at least a score of non-drops and have never, ever found one that doesn't hurt my left palm -- very sensitive -- after a couple of miles. The closest was a Map Ahearne bar severely trimmed with Ergon grips, but even with that, going back to a (basically no-reach) Hover drop, this on the long-tt Monocog, was like coming home again.

I see that the effective tt for the 59 is 68.5 mm. I'll have to figure out how much of that you get back from the 71.5* sta and the 69.5 hta compared to my usual ~56.5 cm with 73 sta. But I suppose I could get back 60 or 70 mm with a no-reach stem compare to my usual 80 and use a very short reach bar like the 70 mm Hover instead of the 115 mm-reach RH Maes Parallel and make up any leftovers with the higher bar placement I'd expect for such a bike.

In fact, with the max tire width no longer a question, the 2 remaining hesitations are vertical dropouts and the bar question. Oh, and a third: the temptation to keep upgrading a nice beater until I am no longer comfortable leaving it locked outside.

I want to use an IGH or single speed hub. I could use hubs with a freewheel and use a tensioner but I'd really  like a fixed drivetrain. I'm tempted to try the floating chainring chain tensioning solution which should be relatively easy with the very long stays.

So the upshot is I want to take a nice frame and use it for something contrary to what it was designed for. I suppose that's typical.

Meanwhile I'll fret about it until, maybe, I do something about it. But a Clem is on a provisional short list.

On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 12:35 PM Nick Shoemaker <fiddl...@gmail.com> wrote:

... @Patrick: My Clem is a size 64 on 700c Cliffhangers ( 25mm internal width) running tubes - I didn't have calipers on hand, but my measuring tape estimate came to ~65-66mm for the 29x2.6" Mezcal. It certainly runs bigger than the 29x2.6" Nobby Nic that I used for a short time, which is my only other point of reference. I also totally agree with you on unpaved tire pressures - back in my 'racy' days I would run ~16psi on my tubeless 26x2.4" - even 20psi resulted in a noticeable hit to traction. I'm about 20lbs heaver now (140>160), but I'm guessing I had the big Mezcals down to ~20psi with tubes on my last ride and they felt great.

[Ray Varella]

Patrick,

Somewhere I recall seeing Grant had put 2.6” knobbies on one of his Clems. 

I have 60mm G-ones on mine and they have plenty of clearance. 

I would encourage you to visit Riv in person, flights are cheap if you’re willing to hunt for deals and both San Francisco and Oakland airports have BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) stations and Riv is just a block or two from the Walnut Creek station. 

Imagine being able to do all your fretting in person and take some test rides. 

Ray

[Ray Varella]

https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/staff-bikes/grants-59cm-clem-l-maxed-out?srsltid=AfmBOorTXJLxe9HhRnVAwh1pKIUeAVHG9pgOXiCFKEyL7JBfZxzTIDMY

See if this link works 

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks Ray for this and the link; I read the content through again. That means that, if the 59 is the best size for my uses -- need to get my brother to help me measure PBH after all these years -- I could use my leftover ultralight 60 mm 700C Big Ones under fenders on a Clem.

One problem solved. Though the problem of turning a beater into something too precious to lock up remains as does the bar question and the drivetrain question -- no common derailleur system for me. That's my plan: a well used frameset to build into a nice riding beater, tho' the complete builds offered by Riv are surprisingly cheap.

I'm close to asking onlist for offers of well used and well-beausaged 59 cm Clem framesets.

[Kim H.]

@Patrick

When I owned a 59cm Clem, I ran 29x2.25 Schwalbe Racing Ralph tires with no fenders.

https://www.merlincycles.com/en-us/schwalbe-racing-ralph-super-race-tle-addix-speed-evo-folding-mtb-tyre-29-216800.html?utm_campaign=googlebase-US&utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shopping&utm_term=Mountain+Bike+Tyres&ucpo=134396

Kim Hetzel.

[Mackenzy Albright]

Patrick - I run 2.3 with honjo flat 65's on my clementine. I had previously installed 2.4 tires no fenders with plenty of clearance. I definitely could have installed 2.5 easily - maaaybe 2.6. I briefly owned a newer Clem jr and clearance was identical.

I think the initial marketing of the Clem (entine)+(jr) was based around smaller tires (50mm) and fenders. People realized they have ample tire clearance for large tires and people started building them more as capable hillibikes vs city cruisers. 

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, McKenzy, good to know.

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[David Ross]

The Ergons aren’t great for swept bars. I have a pair on my Gus and they’re about to be replaced. The issue is the hard retaining clamp at the back of the grip. I have a pair of these on one of my other bikes and they are hands down the best ergos for swept bars:

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/equipment/bike-accessories/bike-handlebar-grips-tape/bike-handlebar-grips/bontrager-xr-endurance-elite-recycled-grip-set/p/5277812/

These are relatively soft yet durable and they’re much easier on the hands. Really fat grips like the Jones Bar grips also work well for me, but I prefer lock on grips. 

I’m unhealthily obsessed with swept bars and have probably spent more time and money than I should have getting the right fit. They are really difficult to set up correctly as there are so many variable. Bar height is one of the most critical elements and I’ve found that the higher the bar, the less everything else matters. I ride some really technical stuff on my bikes, so I prefer a wider bar for better leg clearance. I have my bars made by Keaton at Doom Bars, and I highly recommend this route if you’re having a hard time finding the right fit. I just installed some of his bars on my Gus. They’re basically oversized albatross bars that measure 707mm wide. 

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[David Ross]

Investing. Which rims are you using? I’m on 25 internal and I get a decent amount of deflection. I’d run wider rims if I could figure out where to find wider rims and if I could figure out the braking. Disc brakes would obviously solve the issue. 

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[Benjamin Wildflower]

I have 60mm/29x2.25 tires plus fenders on the clem. It’s a bit of a silly albeit very fun setup in that I ride trails and get sticks snagged in the fenders and also share it with my wife as an all-weather kid-toting machine in our car-free family and I insist on it being both a competent mountain bike and dutch mom bike with both front and rear kid seats despite reality and common sense saying those are two totally different bicycles. N minus one I always say. Specialization is for people with more money and storage space than I have. 

Ours is the 59. We could have sized down. Wife rides it with seatpost all the way down. 

I’ve switched handlebars a few times. Right now I have bullmoose bars and I’m loving it especially for rowdier riding.

I lock it up in public unattended all the time. Mostly people say, “Cool bike,” “Looks fun,” “Is that an old one?” “Is that a woman’s bike?” etc. As a general rule people can’t tell it’s the second most expensive thing I own, the most expensive being another bicycle so I don’t feel it’s a theft magnet. 

Ben in Philly

On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 6:46 PM Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Richard Rose]

Interesting. Are you (did you?) use the Ergon GC1 - the ones specifically made for swept back bars? I have them on my Clem with Bosco’s & Gus with Hope Cyclery Albacore.  The clamp is hard but does not come into play for me. I too am pretty obsessed with these handlebars & yes, you almost cannot make them too high.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 30, 2024, at 11:04 PM, David Ross <dros...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Patrick Moore]

David: Re Ergons: Thanks for the heads up. Am still feeling conflict about bar choices. We shall see.

Ben: Thanks for the confirmation, and good to know that Clems are not high-theft value bikes at least in your area. 

Moving on: I have to resist the temptation to take something and try to make it into something else. I was fighting off evil daydreams this morning about buying a beater Clem frame and having a builder add horizontals and disc brake mounts...

Still, over the years Clems have gotten universally positive reviews from everyone I've come across. What tipped me off some years ago that Clem-praise wasn't just a self-contained praise feedback loop (people who like Clem-type bikes buy Clem-type bikes and then praise Clem-type bikes) was that such an old, die-hard roadie like Patrick O'Grady praised his Clem to the skies. Which reminds me: I think he lives in Albuquerque. I'll have to see if I can track him down for fit and sizing advice.

His signature "Old Guys Who Get Fat In Winter" logo/cartoon that used to accompany his column in Velo News:

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[Kim H.]

@Patrick, 

My favorite saying looking back when I was 56 years old and riding in the drops for nearly forty years was and remains even more so, as I grew older, "the handlebars get higher and the gears get lower." 

At 69 years of age, I am grateful to own a Rivendell Clem Smith Jr.."L" bicycle. The Nitto Bosco Aluminum HT 58cm bars are an excellent choice for riding upright paired with a sprung Brooks B67S saddle. 

Kim Hetzel. 

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