650b new Rivendell models (to me)

[Joel Stern]

I was really confused at first at the A Homer Hilson, Appaloosa and the new Atlantis. The sizing is very different than of old, like for my Bleriot where I ride a 55cm bike, looks like on the Hilson and Appaloosa I would take a 51cm and on the new Atlantis a 50. So my question for those that follow this do any of these have a more relaxed geometry or a more comfortable ride than my Bleriot which is already comfortable? What can anyone tell me about the sizing changes? When Grant measured me years ago I believe he had my PBH to 83 or a bit more, while when I had help from my wife today it was on first measurement 80.645 and on second at 81.28 and a third at 82.5. Now when Grant measure me I thought I would pass out (well not really but it was a bit drastic) and the bike had no extra standover for me. The Bleriot has a bit of standover so I have no doubt that I could probably go down a bit. It also looks like the TT have gotten even longer on these bikes, not maybe the added degree of slope makes that a non issue and maybe there is something there with position of the rider on these. 

Do the longer chain stays contribute to more comfort? 

I also ride upright.

So I guess I am confused.

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks, Joel

[James Valiensi]

Hi,

Standover clearance is really over rated. I find that I never stand over my bike with both feet on the ground and the bike frame perpendicular to the ground. At stops, my right foot is on the peddle and the bike is leaning to towards the left. So this adds clearance. I start off by leaning the bike towards my left side and swinging my right leg over, and clipping in the right pedal. When a start to move, I stand on the right pedal and lift myself on to the saddle. So, never is top tube clearance an issue. I’ve ridden bikes that had top tubes much higher than my crotch and it was not a problem. 

That said, you should be able to straddle your bike with both feet on the ground. But even if the top tube is touching you slightly, you be okay.

If you like to ride upright, then bigger frames are a plus, as long as the top tube isn’t too long.

I’ve got a 55cm Rivendell custom and a 51 Joe A. Both fit perfectly. I could ride one size smaller or larger on the J.A. But the custom is perfect and bigger or smaller would not be acceptable. That has more to do with the head tube length and bottom-bracket drop than any other reason. 

Best regards,

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7a4ffc0b-8272-4e58-816c-44d072cd15f4n%40googlegroups.com.

[ted]

Joel,

The top tubes of most MIT Rivs (including the MIT AHH and Atlantis) have significantly more slope than the older models like your Bleriot.

Therefore the size for a given bar height with respect to seat height is smaller, and ones proper size based on pbh is smaller.

Stand over is increased by about half the difference in size (with respect to a more horizontal tt model).

Just changing the top tube slope should not cause perceptible differences in the ride qualities of an otherwise identical design.

The new MIT Atlantis and AHH also have longer chain stays (and I presume wheelbases) than the earlier Toyo and Waterford versions. I think there are other threads that speak to how these versions ride and handling compare, but a short answer would be longer wb and sitting further from the rear axle should give a smoother ride over bumps.

[Joel Stern]

James, thanks.  I had 3 customs, a 53,54 and after Grant measured my PBH a 56 which gave me no clearance.  The 55cm Bleriot gives me a bit of room.  Sounds like the 51 in the Joe or Homer, or 50 in the Atlantis would work.  I would like to find the most comfortable and stable bike.  The new geometry seems to be a change due to the sloped TT, I need to learn more about this.  I like the biggest bike I can ride, I think that is what confused me with the new sizing.  

Thanks

Joel

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/WdEHPCJKVGU/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/F5D9B7DA-21E3-4482-8411-DA50A3BFED3E%40gmail.com.

--

~IMPORTANT~ Note to all~~ EMAIL ETIQUETTE
If you forward this email, please highlight and delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address and maybe others. It is a courtesy to me and others who may not wish to have their email addresses sent all over the world. Erasing the history helps prevent Spammers from obtaining addresses, prevents viruses from being propagated, and limits the proliferation of spam. Also, please use the “BCC” area instead of “TO” and “CC” when forwarding to several people at once.
~~Thank you~~

[Joel Stern]

Ted, thanks.  I am beginning to understand the slopping TT and what that means. From what I am reading I would be a 51 on the Homer and Appaloosa and a 50 on the Atlantis.  My Bleriot was a bargain as these new MIT models are snout what I paid for my first Road, and my next custom was just a tad more.  The Longer chain stays would be welcome if the increase comfort, my back would appreciate that.  I am also curious about he stability of the front end, the Bleriot is good but just today I noticed a bit of a twitchy feel which could have been me.  I have new 42mm tires on but I don’t think that would have caused it.  

Thanks, Joel

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/WdEHPCJKVGU/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b07f499d-a176-4009-b0b3-152c3efb7df4o%40googlegroups.com.

[Doug Hansford]

Joel,

Funny about Grant measuring your PBH. I've never been to Rivendell but have talked to Grant about bikes by phone. He asked my PBH and I told him I measured it at 83 and he said "you're probably an 85". I think he figures most folks don't get all the way up to bone when they measure. I like having at least an inch clearance even though I can ride a bike with less, I'm always thinking about a quick dismount off of the saddle. My latest bike, a GT steel commuter build has a 32.5 inch stand over measurement and I have clearance.of more than an inch. So, I think Grant is actually right about my PBH being closer to 85 than 83. I'd say buy the largest frame you can comfortable straddle so that you can adjust reach with handlebar and stem changes. A too small bike I think limits what you can do for your cockpit options.

Doug Hansford

On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 12:57:49 PM UTC-4, Joel Stern wrote:

Ted, thanks.  I am beginning to understand the slopping TT and what that means. From what I am reading I would be a 51 on the Homer and Appaloosa and a 50 on the Atlantis.  My Bleriot was a bargain as these new MIT models are snout what I paid for my first Road, and my next custom was just a tad more.  The Longer chain stays would be welcome if the increase comfort, my back would appreciate that.  I am also curious about he stability of the front end, the Bleriot is good but just today I noticed a bit of a twitchy feel which could have been me.  I have new 42mm tires on but I don’t think that would have caused it.  

Thanks, Joel

On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 12:46 PM ted <ted....@comcast.net> wrote:

Joel,

The top tubes of most MIT Rivs (including the MIT AHH and Atlantis) have significantly more slope than the older models like your Bleriot.

Therefore the size for a given bar height with respect to seat height is smaller, and ones proper size based on pbh is smaller.

Stand over is increased by about half the difference in size (with respect to a more horizontal tt model).

Just changing the top tube slope should not cause perceptible differences in the ride qualities of an otherwise identical design.

The new MIT Atlantis and AHH also have longer chain stays (and I presume wheelbases) than the earlier Toyo and Waterford versions. I think there are other threads that speak to how these versions ride and handling compare, but a short answer would be longer wb and sitting further from the rear axle should give a smoother ride over bumps.

On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 7:10:42 AM UTC-7, Joel Stern wrote:

I was really confused at first at the A Homer Hilson, Appaloosa and the new Atlantis. The sizing is very different than of old, like for my Bleriot where I ride a 55cm bike, looks like on the Hilson and Appaloosa I would take a 51cm and on the new Atlantis a 50. So my question for those that follow this do any of these have a more relaxed geometry or a more comfortable ride than my Bleriot which is already comfortable? What can anyone tell me about the sizing changes? When Grant measured me years ago I believe he had my PBH to 83 or a bit more, while when I had help from my wife today it was on first measurement 80.645 and on second at 81.28 and a third at 82.5. Now when Grant measure me I thought I would pass out (well not really but it was a bit drastic) and the bike had no extra standover for me. The Bleriot has a bit of standover so I have no doubt that I could probably go down a bit. It also looks like the TT have gotten even longer on these bikes, not maybe the added degree of slope makes that a non issue and maybe there is something there with position of the rider on these. 

Do the longer chain stays contribute to more comfort? 

I also ride upright.

So I guess I am confused.

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks, Joel

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/WdEHPCJKVGU/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b07f499d-a176-4009-b0b3-152c3efb7df4o%40googlegroups.com.

[Joel Stern]

Hi Doug, I have been buying the largest I could ride, that is why the ‘new sizing’ confused me.  I am learning about how it relates to the TT newer slope.  I think Grant had me at or close to 84, I got as high as about 82.5.  Will try one more time later.  I agree with you on riding as large as I can, I was very confused until some have pointed out the change in ti TT, which would also make them measure longer unless I am confused on that as well.  Think I will call Riv tomorrow.

Thanks, Joel

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ef5cbf07-0ea3-4ec9-b0ce-c36b76f79540o%40googlegroups.com.

[ted]

Hey Joel,

Prices have certainly gone up since the Bleriot days, I think a lot of that is just years of inflation but still ...

I encourage you to give the fine folks at RBW WH a call to discuss ride and handling of current models wrt your Bleriot.

That said I would expect the AHH to be closer to your Bleriot but perhaps a bit more stable, and the Joe A and Atlantis to be more stable.

regards

ted

On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 9:57:49 AM UTC-7, Joel Stern wrote:

Ted, thanks.  I am beginning to understand the slopping TT and what that means. From what I am reading I would be a 51 on the Homer and Appaloosa and a 50 on the Atlantis.  My Bleriot was a bargain as these new MIT models are snout what I paid for my first Road, and my next custom was just a tad more.  The Longer chain stays would be welcome if the increase comfort, my back would appreciate that.  I am also curious about he stability of the front end, the Bleriot is good but just today I noticed a bit of a twitchy feel which could have been me.  I have new 42mm tires on but I don’t think that would have caused it.  

Thanks, Joel

On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 12:46 PM ted <ted....@comcast.net> wrote:

Joel,

The top tubes of most MIT Rivs (including the MIT AHH and Atlantis) have significantly more slope than the older models like your Bleriot.

Therefore the size for a given bar height with respect to seat height is smaller, and ones proper size based on pbh is smaller.

Stand over is increased by about half the difference in size (with respect to a more horizontal tt model).

Just changing the top tube slope should not cause perceptible differences in the ride qualities of an otherwise identical design.

The new MIT Atlantis and AHH also have longer chain stays (and I presume wheelbases) than the earlier Toyo and Waterford versions. I think there are other threads that speak to how these versions ride and handling compare, but a short answer would be longer wb and sitting further from the rear axle should give a smoother ride over bumps.

On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 7:10:42 AM UTC-7, Joel Stern wrote:

I was really confused at first at the A Homer Hilson, Appaloosa and the new Atlantis. The sizing is very different than of old, like for my Bleriot where I ride a 55cm bike, looks like on the Hilson and Appaloosa I would take a 51cm and on the new Atlantis a 50. So my question for those that follow this do any of these have a more relaxed geometry or a more comfortable ride than my Bleriot which is already comfortable? What can anyone tell me about the sizing changes? When Grant measured me years ago I believe he had my PBH to 83 or a bit more, while when I had help from my wife today it was on first measurement 80.645 and on second at 81.28 and a third at 82.5. Now when Grant measure me I thought I would pass out (well not really but it was a bit drastic) and the bike had no extra standover for me. The Bleriot has a bit of standover so I have no doubt that I could probably go down a bit. It also looks like the TT have gotten even longer on these bikes, not maybe the added degree of slope makes that a non issue and maybe there is something there with position of the rider on these. 

Do the longer chain stays contribute to more comfort? 

I also ride upright.

So I guess I am confused.

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks, Joel

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/WdEHPCJKVGU/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b07f499d-a176-4009-b0b3-152c3efb7df4o%40googlegroups.com.

[Joel Stern]

Ted, I have had 8 Rivendells before my accident 10 years ago, 4 were still with me.  Sold 3 of my last 4 as I thought I would not ride again but kept the Bleriot in the hope that I would as I bonded with the 650b.  Now retired and riding again and I have not touched my 401 money.  Maybe I deserve a treat.  

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/74fb0424-59e9-4ab4-a99a-3b11c4d66c5bo%40googlegroups.com.

[Doug Hansford]

Joel,

Tap that 401k!! Have you seen Joe B.'s custom? It has a nice sloping top tube and I think maybe 650b? You SHOULD treat yourself to a retirement gift. All those years of saving in your retirement accounts was good discipline and now you should not feel guilty for investing in a nice bike. Riding has so many benefits both mental and physical that I think it would be money well spent. If Joe sees this maybe he can tell you about is custom and the process he went through the come up with the design.

Doug Hansford

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/74fb0424-59e9-4ab4-a99a-3b11c4d66c5bo%40googlegroups.com.

[Joel Stern]

Joe Bernard?  I have not seen his custom but until I started riding again I have not been active here.  Something to think about.  First I thought you were talking about a Joe built, he did my 56cm Joel Green.  

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e49ee04c-6e21-4502-9dee-53b98ad6499bo%40googlegroups.com.

[Joe Bernard]

You mean this one?? Definitely long chainstays which was Grant's choice, and I picked the drop-toptube because I like the clearance and the look. The look gave me the heart seatlug and RBW decal up there in the air above the toptube where everyone can see it..swanky! For reference I'm about Joel's height and the measurements are (approximately) 54cm seattube and 63cm effective toptube. On paper the front sounds crazy long for my height, but in practice with the high-and-reaching-back bars I use it's perfect. Incredibly stable frame which still turns nicely, it's a great bike. 

[Joe Bernard]

Here's a couple more photos.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/3wpygKkdeVfaAzh47

[Mark Roland]

Yes, you really no longer need to think in terms of "largest size" with the newer Rivendels. The idea behind that was based on the more traditional diamond frame with level or only slightly sloping top tube, so that you could get handlebars high.

The newer frames account for that without needing to size up. The only dilemma some face now is being squarely in the middle of two sizes, since there is a lot of overlap. So for instance, I have a 52 Clem L and am waiting on a 56 Susie. Very very similar geometries, but I can comfortably fit either one.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ef5cbf07-0ea3-4ec9-b0ce-c36b76f79540o%40googlegroups.com.

[Joe Bernard]

Joel,

About the production frames, I had a 51cm Appaloosa, great bike, I think you would love it.

[Joe Bernard]

Speaking of which (sorry I'm not remembering everything and putting it all in one post), Rich Lesnik @ Riv is selling a very nice 51 Appa. Look for his post "mustard-gold Appaloosa" on this list.

[Joel Stern]

Joe, absolutely beautiful, and a one of a kind.  

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/cddf1593-77f8-47af-92cb-7162058c03c9n%40googlegroups.com.

[Joel Stern]

I’m waiting for him to get back to me.... thanks

On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 3:24 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Speaking of which (sorry I'm not remembering everything and putting it all in one post), Rich Lesnik @ Riv is selling a very nice 51 Appa. Look for his post "mustard-gold Appaloosa" on this list.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/WdEHPCJKVGU/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/fb246201-dd2a-463f-a314-50e7f1be79c6o%40googlegroups.com.

[Joel Stern]

Joe, I think so too but no new ones for now.  It seems to be what I am thinking about.  Not sure if you have had a Bleriot,  rode mine today, had a close call, my fault and another with what I will call stability of the front.  Just put on 42cm tires (has 32 Grand Boise before) but I know that was not the issue.  So I would like a more comfortable if possible bike and a soft stable ride.  

On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 3:00 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Joel,

About the production frames, I had a 51cm Appaloosa, great bike, I think you would love it.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/WdEHPCJKVGU/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/471bed84-c5e0-4410-91e9-43a8293f3af2o%40googlegroups.com.

[ted]

Joel,

I'm sure you deserve a 401k funded retirement treat. It's great you are able to ride again. I too am recently (~1.5yr) retired. Great deal aint it? Everybody should be so lucky.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/74fb0424-59e9-4ab4-a99a-3b11c4d66c5bo%40googlegroups.com.

[Joel Stern]

Indeed it is.  I was out before retirement after 2 back surgeries, hence my fear of riding, but after 2 successful RFA treatments pain is controlled.  I used to be embarrassed when people asked what I do all day, now I just say, I’m retired, whatever I want.  And now I can ride again, life is good.  

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/323fda43-6f4e-4006-ac56-55ddfe6aa3e7o%40googlegroups.com.

[Joe Bernard]

Joel,

I've owned a 55 Bleriot. Nice bike, too long ago to remember steering but even then that frame was too talk for me and I'm certainly older/creakier now. I know there's another opinion on this thread about standover not being important, but it is to me..I like knowing when I pop of the saddle and put one foot down at a stop that nothing is landing on a toptube. It's better for getting on and off, too.

On our height range that puts us on a 51 Appa or 50 Atlantis - basically the same bike - for diamond frames with some clearance, or a 55 Cheviot.

For less money and WAY more clearance..Clem Smith L. I'll bet you would LOVE that bike. If you're an old school guy like me you'll struggle a bit with the "lady's bike" style, but I've gotten past that. It works; Grant has two of them (I don't think he ever bought an H); and as my friend who's a lady and rides one says, "High toptubes are stupid!" 😁

[Joel Stern]

Joe, you pinned me, the lady like frame is hard for me but the Atlantis and Appaloosa (should it come back in stock) are looking very nice to me.  My thoughts are to use my components from the Bleriot, will never find the Suntour stuff I have again, and if I love it then I can get some other components for the Bleriot or sell the frame.  I do like having 2 bikes but it is not a necessity anymore. If my hands don’t get better (I am ok on the bike with them) I can sell my guitars and buy whatever I want.  Thanks again Joe, great connecting with old iBob  and RBW friends again. 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/WdEHPCJKVGU/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8f0c2617-4103-4343-a510-d3ab2eb6032bo%40googlegroups.com.

[Joe Bernard]

If you can do 26" wheels there's a 50cm Atlantis frame on the Riv site. You'll need to score new (or used from Craigslist) wheels, but this would keep wheels under the Bleriot for rebuilding that frame later.
https://www.rivbike.com/products/copy-of-50cm-atlantis-demo-bike

PS. The latest 50cm Atlantis is 650B, this is a slightly older frame.

[Joel Stern]

I don't know, I never bonded with 26" wheels, my AR was never a favorite but it was nice just never a first choice. 

I actually have an extra rear build up with a FW (which brings up the other issue, do I want to go cassette, but I see no real reason too). Also, any thumb shifters are out as I have basal joint arthritis, had 2 surgeries on the right, the last one is not helping too much, had the other two surgeries in 2009 and both failed within 5 years. So bar ends are good for me, friction is fine, I have no real issue with index if I was to go to 8 or 9 speed which maybe is a consideration and then leave me with a double instead of a triple. I have a few parts at home as I sold most on these sites when I had lost most of my hope of riding again but parts are always going to be available, I just may have to change some of my wants. I did not know you can use sidepulls with the Atlantas but from reading it seems you can use these or Cantis. 

For $100 more I can get, if I decide on the Atlantis the current geometry which may suit me better. 

I will call and try to get Mark tomorrow as Mark has always been a great asset. 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/WdEHPCJKVGU/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8d113d64-6fb5-4901-9555-6fd1903666fdo%40googlegroups.com.

[Joe Bernard]

Sounds like a plan, Joel, Mark will definitely show you the way to go.

About the arthritis which I also have, is one hand worse than the other? My bad one is the right and if you look closely at my custom you'll see that the shifters are swapped. Most of my shifting is the rear and done with my left hand on an index thumby; the right is a Silver Power Ratchet which I don't use much, and when I do I push/pull with my whole hand to avoid thumb pain. Whichever kind you use - barcons are great - I recommend putting the most-used shifter in your strongest hand.

Have fun Riv shopping and keep us posted!

[Joel Stern]

Well Joe, now that is a good question. It goes back and forth., So I had this revision surgery in December on my right and it is about 30% better but if I use it to work around the house it flares. But now the left has gotten worse due to my using it more and I just had an injection because it was terrible and my thumb is locking (it did that on the other as well but the surgery did take care of that). I have found the Albatross bars a blessing for this, I can rest my hands in different positions and I wear both hand braces called collums and old style leather and chochet gloves, but I have to be careful because the meaty part just behind the thumb can flare as well. I know i am going to have to address these again sooner than later, seeing a different doc as the one that did his surgery tried something called a mini tightrope, too hard to explain for now. He wants to experiment by moving something around, hence a third surgery with another 2+ month recovery and just a hunch that it will help. So I am off to see a highly regarded hand surgeon (I saw about 7 before the last surgery and thought I picked the best). So short answer, they both can be terrible and I can use the barcons without using my thumbs which saves me.  Sorry for the long description, but I bet you understand. 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/WdEHPCJKVGU/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/eb3b2efc-554f-4c12-9e29-1eb433309a77o%40googlegroups.com.

[Joel Stern]

Joe, just looked at the bike again, are the shifters friction or have you gone to index? Index may be in the cards for me but then I would have to build up another rear wheel and I have that spare Velocity rear that I was using for the rollers with fork mount when I could after my surgery. Also, do you find the B17 comfortable for a more upright ride? I am using the discontinued B68 and it is ok, sometimes I think too wide but I sold all of my B 17's. So many foolish moves, I had a great parts draw.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/cddf1593-77f8-47af-92cb-7162058c03c9n%40googlegroups.com.

[Joel Stern]

Really nice. I may have to decide if I will use my side pulls (if I can) or go to Cantis. Only used Cantis on my allrounder many years ago and sold a NOS pair of Suntour Expert I think a couple of years back. I want something easy to release and reattach. 

Nice colors too. Beautiful bike

On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 2:53 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Here's a couple more photos.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/3wpygKkdeVfaAzh47

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/WdEHPCJKVGU/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/0124becb-fe2b-4637-9e67-e0b94c44d31bo%40googlegroups.com.

[Joe Bernard]

Index rear, friction front..my days of pretending I have the patience for rear friction are DONE.

I highly recommend the Shimano DXR v-brakes you see on my bike, they're super easy to disconnect for wheel removal. And pretty!

[Joel Stern]

Joe, thanks.  I was thinking about maybe going cassette and index.  It is probably easier on your hands.  I have a nice Deore 9 speed rear derailleur.  I have velocity synergy rims now, wonder what looks good today?  

I will have to learn more about V brakes, I see from reading on Rivendell that Grant is a fan of them.  I’ll take a look.  

On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 6:10 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Index rear, friction front..my days of pretending I have the patience for rear friction are DONE.

I highly recommend the Shimano DXR v-brakes you see on my bike, they're super easy to disconnect for wheel removal. And pretty!

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/WdEHPCJKVGU/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/bcad4fa3-faaf-4abb-8818-9b2bd6dd3eaao%40googlegroups.com.

[Joel Stern]

Joe, what hubs and rims are you using? 

On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 2:53 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Here's a couple more photos.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/3wpygKkdeVfaAzh47

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/WdEHPCJKVGU/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/0124becb-fe2b-4637-9e67-e0b94c44d31bo%40googlegroups.com.

[Ash]

This is one of the coolest bikes in existence!   I'm rooting for this exact geometry to become a production model.

[Joe Bernard]

White Industries hubs, Mi5 and some other name up front, Velocity Atlas rims. Rich Lesnik built of course!

[Joe Bernard]

Thanks, Ash! (I secretly hope it becomes a production model, too..like a low-step version of the Appaloosa)

[John Hawrylak]

Joel

You probably saw this, but a 54.5cm AHH is for sale on this 

FS: 54.5 A. Homer Hilsen with extras

Might be worth an inquiry.  Don't know if it is MUSA or MIT.  The 56cm EffTTL is too long for me with a 5cm stem and RH Randonnuer bars.

PS, you may need a shorter stem on the new MIT's since the EffTTL is longer.

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ 

[Joel Stern]

Thanks John.  Were the MUSA bikes different in sizing.  With the MIT ones I would use 51.

Thanks, Joel

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/WdEHPCJKVGU/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/60c36695-287f-482c-aa3c-e882ffba20afo%40googlegroups.com.

[Bill Schairer]

I recently installed Paul touring cantilevers on my Atlantis for no particularly good reason other than I wanted to.  I was very pleasantly surprised at how easy they were to set up and easy to release and reattach.  SO much easier than the stock Shimanos they replaced.  I’m running 50mm tires so like to release the brakes when removing and installing a wheel. I am getting some shudder up front and bought one of those fork mount cable stops but just haven’t been motivated enough to mount it yet to see if it addresses my problem as I’ve read it would.

Bill S

On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 2:41:38 PM UTC-7, Joel Stern wrote:

Really nice. I may have to decide if I will use my side pulls (if I can) or go to Cantis. Only used Cantis on my allrounder many years ago and sold a NOS pair of Suntour Expert I think a couple of years back. I want something easy to release and reattach. 

Nice colors too. Beautiful bike

On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 2:53 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Here's a couple more photos.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/3wpygKkdeVfaAzh47

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/WdEHPCJKVGU/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

[Matt B.]

On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 12:13:55 PM UTC-4, James Valiensi wrote:

Hi,

Standover clearance is really over rated. I find that I never stand over my bike with both feet on the ground and the bike frame perpendicular to the ground. At stops, my right foot is on the peddle and the bike is leaning to towards the left. So this adds clearance. I start off by leaning the bike towards my left side and swinging my right leg over, and clipping in the right pedal. When a start to move, I stand on the right pedal and lift myself on to the saddle. So, never is top tube clearance an issue. I’ve ridden bikes that had top tubes much higher than my crotch and it was not a problem.

Couldn't agree with this more. The most important things in sizing is the reach, stack, and ST angle. I do prefer frames where the top tube sits just beneath my leg when stopped with one foot on the ground, so I can kind of sit on the TT without bending my grounded leg, which allows me to comfortably stabilize the bike when at a stoplight or reading a map.  That usually happens when I have no more than 2-3cm of actual stand over clearance.

-Matt

[Jason Fuller]

I think largely it came down to two things:  6 degree slope became the norm for the top tube, and it probably rotated around the center point - so the seat end dropped, shortening the seat tube, and the head tube side went up a bit, increasing max bar height. The other thing is everything got a bit longer so that one could run either a drop bar or an upright bar in their respective size by varying stem length.  Both of these changes are pretty positive to me, as much as I love the look of earlier Homers, Bleriots, Rambouillets etc.  It does mean that I need to run a 5-7cm stem for drop bars when I would have run a 9ish cm on the older models, but I like the short stem setup - more room for front bags, and puts the front wheel slightly further in front of you for rough stuff

[Joel Stern]

Thanks Jason, good info.  Seems that if I want to do something today it would be an Atlantis.  

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 1:13 PM Jason Fuller <jtf.f...@gmail.com> wrote:

I think largely it came down to two things:  6 degree slope became the norm for the top tube, and it probably rotated around the center point - so the seat end dropped, shortening the seat tube, and the head tube side went up a bit, increasing max bar height. The other thing is everything got a bit longer so that one could run either a drop bar or an upright bar in their respective size by varying stem length.  Both of these changes are pretty positive to me, as much as I love the look of earlier Homers, Bleriots, Rambouillets etc.  It does mean that I need to run a 5-7cm stem for drop bars when I would have run a 9ish cm on the older models, but I like the short stem setup - more room for front bags, and puts the front wheel slightly further in front of you for rough stuff

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/WdEHPCJKVGU/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8a5347fe-c951-45c4-b4fe-2cfb88b93f56n%40googlegroups.com.

[Joe Bernard]

Oh, I missed the saddle question. Yes B17s work for me upright, I just have to tilt it back more than my brain tells me makes sense. The pics you see are before I got it right, it's tilted now.

I can't ride those B67/68 saddles, that wide shelf at the back drives me crazy. B17 forever!

[Joel Stern]

Thanks Joe... So it seems that the Appaloosa will not be in until sometime in 2021 so I have to think Atlantis. I got a bit confused with Grants writing that if you decide to use Cantis to order a hanger which made me think you could use sidepulls but I think he was thinking V brakes for the atlantis . 

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 3:12 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Oh, I missed the saddle question. Yes B17s work for me upright, I just have to tilt it back more than my brain tells me makes sense. The pics you see are before I got it right, it's tilted now.

I can't ride those B67/68 saddles, that wide shelf at the back drives me crazy. B17 forever!

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/WdEHPCJKVGU/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/22b57687-a877-4e4c-9ce6-d8e0e1ad8145o%40googlegroups.com.

[John Hawrylak]

Joel

The MUSA frames were sized 2cm apart with a 2° sloping TT.  Looks much better.  

The frame is too long for me.  If not, I would ask him if it was MUSA or MIT.  If MUSA, it's a very good del.  If MIT, not bad deal, but unless you need his parts, you would be better off buying a new frame and getting what you want.

If you liked your Bleriot, I would think a AHH-MIT is perferred to a Atlantis-MIT, for general riding with occasional tours.  

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

[Joe Bernard]

Yes, Atlantis is canti or v-brake. You can also get a Sam Hillborne with the same brakes but otherwise is closer in nature to your Bleriot. Or AHH, which is basically a Bleriot with a lower toptube and longer stays.

Mark and Grant can definitely help you decide what fits your needs best these days, I'm fairly certain those needs will be different from when you bought your last Riv.

[Joe Bernard]

Adding: My recs are not based on actual frames in stock now. I'm not up on what's available at the moment.

[Joel Stern]

John,

Actually I would like to go a bit more relaxed than the Bleriiot. That put the AHH in the same category as the Bleriot from what I have been reading. 

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/WdEHPCJKVGU/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7dbc7307-b2da-4436-b582-1cad952c2b92o%40googlegroups.com.

[Joel Stern]

Joe, the AHH is still very close to the Bleriot from what I have been reading. I have to dig up my old geometry charts and look at them to compare. http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/geometry.html

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 3:58 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, Atlantis is canti or v-brake. You can also get a Sam Hillborne with the same brakes but otherwise is closer in nature to your Bleriot. Or AHH, which is basically a Bleriot with a lower toptube and longer stays.

Mark and Grant can definitely help you decide what fits your needs best these days, I'm fairly certain those needs will be different from when you bought your last Riv.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/WdEHPCJKVGU/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/85ce1978-b11f-40a8-99c3-07b6cb30d795o%40googlegroups.com.

[John Hawrylak]

Joel

Have you considered a seatpost with more setback?  The 1° slacker STA gives you approx 1.5cm more setback (Atlantis vs AHH) which can be obtained using a VO Grand Cru seatpost or the Nitto lugged CrMo post RBW sells.

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ 

On Monday, June 29, 2020 at 4:01:36 PM UTC-4, Joel Stern wrote:

John,

Actually I would like to go a bit more relaxed than the Bleriiot. That put the AHH in the same category as the Bleriot from what I have been reading. 

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 3:49 PM 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Joel

The MUSA frames were sized 2cm apart with a 2° sloping TT.  Looks much better.  

The frame is too long for me.  If not, I would ask him if it was MUSA or MIT.  If MUSA, it's a very good del.  If MIT, not bad deal, but unless you need his parts, you would be better off buying a new frame and getting what you want.

If you liked your Bleriot, I would think a AHH-MIT is perferred to a Atlantis-MIT, for general riding with occasional tours.  

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/WdEHPCJKVGU/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

[Joel Stern]

John, no, I have not. I’m not sure it would give me a softer more stable ride, not that the Bleriot is not stable.  I want to add as much Cush for my hands and back. The 42mm Baby Pass have done well in that area.  

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 7:40 PM 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Joel

Have you considered a seatpost with more setback?  The 1° slacker STA gives you approx 1.5cm more setback (Atlantis vs AHH) which can be obtained using a VO Grand Cru seatpost or the Nitto lugged CrMo post RBW sells.

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ 

On Monday, June 29, 2020 at 4:01:36 PM UTC-4, Joel Stern wrote:

John,

Actually I would like to go a bit more relaxed than the Bleriiot. That put the AHH in the same category as the Bleriot from what I have been reading. 

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 3:49 PM 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Joel

The MUSA frames were sized 2cm apart with a 2° sloping TT.  Looks much better.  

The frame is too long for me.  If not, I would ask him if it was MUSA or MIT.  If MUSA, it's a very good del.  If MIT, not bad deal, but unless you need his parts, you would be better off buying a new frame and getting what you want.

If you liked your Bleriot, I would think a AHH-MIT is perferred to a Atlantis-MIT, for general riding with occasional tours.  

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/WdEHPCJKVGU/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7dbc7307-b2da-4436-b582-1cad952c2b92o%40googlegroups.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/WdEHPCJKVGU/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/bfe6b09c-5783-4edc-9343-5d3a06e49c29o%40googlegroups.com.

[Dave Johnston]

If you are looking for plush and comfort you should seriously consider going with a bigger tire. 48mm with fenders will work really well on the Appaloosa or MIT Atlantis.

The current best tire in this category is the Rene Herse Switchback Hill. In whatever durability you feel most appropriate. Ultralight, Regular, Endurance for your terrain. For less money WTB and SOMA also make good tires in 650b x 47ish.

https://www.renehersecycles.com/shop/components/tires/650b/650bx48-switchback-hill/

-Dave

[Joel Stern]

Thanks Dave.  Using BSP now and also have the 48’s on my list.  

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/WdEHPCJKVGU/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5fc4777b-913b-4935-bc0d-725aa54cab19o%40googlegroups.com.