Hiluki vintage ??

[ted]

I have a "school bus yellow" 56cm AHH I bought as a FFH through this list a few years back.

It seems to be an AHH badged and decaled Saluki (a.k.a. HiLuki?) with a SA-### sn stamped on the bottom bracket, which has the cast in cable guides.

The bike is a real looker and I'm frequently asked how old it is, but I don't really know. Sooo, ...

Can somebody enlighten me as to when the Saluki was folded into the AHH model?

Even better if the previous owner(s) (I think i bought it from a guy back east who bought it from a guy out west) see this can they date the frame?

thanks

ted

[Pondero]

I had one of those, and my flickr photo album dates back to 2010. So that is my guess.

https://flic.kr/p/7kFCdp

Chris Johnson
Sanger, Texas

[Fullylugged]

If it has an SA serial number then it is a Saluki and not a Hilsen. Saluki was only made in 650B and Hilsen came in 700. After the merger, smaller size Hilsens came in 650B and larger ones in 700. Saluki was made in Japan starting in 2004 and Hilsen was made in the US from 2006, then later in Taiwan as currency exchange rates became an issue. They were always functionally equivalent. Salukis were mostly side pulls but a small number were made for cantis. There weren't a lot of Salukis made, and I think they ended production (although some hung around in the RBW attic for a long while) around 2007. Both models were for sale separately through 2007. $1,500 for FFHS combo.

At least I think that's about right.

[ted]

Thanks Pondero, your bike looks like a twin to mine. So it seems ~2010 is a decent estimate.

Fullylugged, your history is a bit off.

The early AHH frames were built by Toyo. I think one way those frames can be distinguished from the later Waterford built ones is the water bottle mounts on the underside of the down tube. I believe there are other cosmetic details too. At the time RBW moved production from Toyo to Waterford in response to a surging yen, G wrote about the MUSA frames being just as good as the Toyos but that there were minor differences and that if one wanted a Toyo the time to get it was ...

After the introduction of the AHH and before (or about when) production moved to Waterford the Saluki was folded into the AHH model. In the smaller sizes even sized AHH were 650b and odd sized ones were 700c. Large 650b frames were discontinued (i think 58 was the largest pre MIT 650b AHH)

In the transition some bikes were built using Saluki bottom brackets (using up existing stock?) but badged and decaled as AHHs.

So is a frame with a SA-### sn sold by RBW with an AHH head badge and AHH decals a Saluki or an AHH? I duno, a rose by any other name ... or some such thing.

If there weren't many Salukis sold there must have been very very few of these "HiLuki" bikes. Rarity aside mine has become very precious to me. It's probably my favorite bike and if it were stolen or wrecked i don't think I could replace it. Nothing against current RBW production, but those old Toyo built bikes are sooo pretty.

[Bruce Herbitter]

Appreciate the info Ted.  Yes on the Tokyo bikes.  I absolutely love my Rambouillet

Sent from my iPad

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[Sean Steinle]

One thing that doesn't seem to get discussed with rebadged Salukis/early Toyo Hilsens is the fork crown. Does that have any meaning, or did they vary based on stock they needed to get rid of? All of the Toyo Hilsen's I see pics of seem to have the swirly fork crown. But, the Salukis had the style like this: http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/rr38_pg45.jpg

I'm actually taking delivery today of an old 58cm 650b Hilsen, which has the Saluki/Waterford Hilsen fork crown, but the owner said it's actually one of the earliest 650b Toyo Hilsens. I'll see what the BB stamp looks like when I get home tonight. 

[Sean Steinle]

following up: UPS man came early so I ducked out of work for half an hour to put the bike inside, as it was propped up against my garage with nobody home for delivery.

My bike seems to be an enigma in all ways. So, here's what we have:

58cm 650b Hilsen

early SA serial number (so confirmed Toyo build)

Saluki fork crown, like this: http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/rr38_pg45.jpg

AHH decals and headbadge

and to top things off, it's the lighter, Waterford Hilsen blue, not the darker Toyo.

Previous owner is a list member, and he's promised to tell me the history of the bike when he gets a break for work. I suppose it's possible someone just repainted and rebadged an old Saluki. I also wonder if Riv had an unpainted Saluki frame lying around, and decided to make it a Hilsen?

Either way, I'm excited by my findings, because A) I like unique things with interesting histories, and B) I prefer the decals and headbadge of the Saluki, so I thought about reaching out to the folks at RBW to see if they still had any Saluki headbadges, and whether they'd sell me one for this bike. That way, when the day comes to repaint, I can reincarnate it back to it's 'original' form. I can't see why they wouldn't sell me one, if they have them, but, who knows!

Sean

[ted]

Interesting. I was not aware of the fork crown evolution there. The one on your bike seems reminiscent of the Roadeo and Roadini crowns.

[Chad]

Hey Sean, welcome to the AHH club! I thought I recognized your name from the ‘82 Sequoia I bought last summer in Lawrence.

I have been trying to date my AHH as well. Mine is a 52cm 650B complete that the previous owner bought from Riv in I believe 2009 according to the old RBW invoice I have from the owner. It is Toyo-built with the current style fork crown, lighter AHH blue with an almost purple tint, and serial number AHH02**. IIRC previous owner told me that RBW had Waterford AHH frames in stock and a few Toyo frames leftover in the warehouse. She requested the older Toyo version because she liked the lighter blue.

[Sean Steinle]

Hey Chad! I was actually just thinking about you and that Sequoia not too long ago. I hope it's treating you well! I'm happy to be a part of the AHH club, and more importantly, finally a Riv owner! Because this thread is lacking in pictures, I thought I'd post mine. Again, this an SA00XX serial AHH, Toyo built. I've only had a chance to take it for a spin around the block, but from what I can tell, I'm gonna love this thing. The Albas come back pretty far and it's a stark contrast to the drops slightly below saddle height on my Velo Cult, but I think I'll get used to it and love them. 

[G.E.]

This is just a "for what it may be worth" comment...

I purchased a NOS Saluki from Riv in 2017 and because it was unpainted they told me I could have it decaled/headbadged with either Saluki or AHH info - my choice. Sooo... I'm thinking they may have Saluki headbadges around somewhere that they'd be willing to sell.

[Chad]

On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 11:55:59 AM UTC-5, Sean Steinle wrote:
> Hey Chad! I was actually just thinking about you and that Sequoia not too long ago. I hope it's treating you well! I'm happy to be a part of the AHH club, and more importantly, finally a Riv owner! Because this thread is lacking in pictures, I thought I'd post mine. Again, this an SA00XX serial AHH, Toyo built. I've only had a chance to take it for a spin around the block, but from what I can tell, I'm gonna love this thing. The Albas come back pretty far and it's a stark contrast to the drops slightly below saddle height on my Velo Cult, but I think I'll get used to it and love them. 

Well we should get the very small Kansas club together for a meet up! Dave here from Manhattan and I get together when we can. He is the guy that I may have told you about that has a matching 94 RB-T to your wife’s and mine. I collected a few more original parts for the Sequoia in order to try to keep it original.. I still have a few things to finish up on it and have been distracted by a couple other projects. It’s such a cool old bike. I’ll have to send you some pics.