Weighing options: Clem L vs. Cheviot (vs. ?)

[Tully Lanter]

There are too many outstanding Riv frame options for my middle-of-the-road needs. Nice problem to face!

I've tested a Clem L and liked it. A lot. Silky smooth, 650b (in 52cm), step-through for those unplanned traffic/trail dismounts, ample tire clearance...

However, it felt overly stout for my 150 lbs and minimal cargo.

Theoretically, the Cheviot seems like it would have a spritelier feel à la Sam/Homer while keeping the long chainstays and low, stretched-out top tube. For whoever has ridden some/all of these, is that about right?

Not sure whether long-wheelbase models would fit in our buses' bike racks...but that's another matter!

[Lum Gim Fong]

For looks: Cheviut. No contest, imho.

For 150 lbs., I will say that I have personally found (at 146-178lbs at any given time) that all Rivbikes are too stout for me except the Roadeo. I cannot ride anything at or more than 8/5/8 tubing or bogs down on hills for me. Maybe I am a weakling. In all other ways you can't find a better riding bike, than a Rivendell, imho.

But if it is a toss up between Chevy and Clem, definitely a Chevy. Much, much  prettier bike. Way more elegant.

Again, if function isn't an issue.

I don't know what the functional diffs are between them.

[Joe Bernard]

I've owned both - 52 L and 55 Chev - and your impressions are correct. Two things to consider:

1. The Clem L "toptube" is noticeably lower than the Cheviot's. They're both out of the way for planting a foot quickly on the trail, but if you're looking to use that feature to step onto the bike - say, to avoid swinging a leg over a big saddlebag - the Chev tube was high enough for my stubby legs to qualify as not really being different from a diamond frame for me.

2. The v-brakes that came stock on my L were significantly stronger (translating to easier hand pressure) than the long-reach Tektro calipers I used on the Chev. They also limit tire size compared to the Clem. Granted, there's other side- and center-pull brakes out there which I may have liked better.

Conclusion: They're both nice bikes. Cheviot is more of a road bike to Clem's mtb-ish vibe, but the one can do pretty much anything the other can do. I would say pick your brakes, tire size, standover, price and color, and have fun!

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I have experience with the Clem L and the Cheviot's predecessor, the Betty Foy. The Clem L is just as you say - silky smooth. I don't find it to be heavy or clunky in the least, despite the beefy look of its tubes. I weigh less than 150 (though I'll never say what I do weigh, ha!) and have no trouble maneuvering that bike around. It's actually my mother-in-law's, and I ride it during summers at her place, and the land there is flatish. I actually love that bike for just what it is, and that low top tube is just sublime. I never kick the top tube and smudge the paint, that's for sure.

My Betty Foy is awesome. It is spritely, but I don't feel it's a great deal more so than the Clem L. After 6 years of riding it nearly exclusively, it feels like an extension of me. It takes loads really well. It's easy to maneuver, but not more than the Clem L. I'd prefer a lower top tube that what you get on the Riv mixtes. It's fine, but it would be even better a bit lower. I've got marks from my boots knicking the paint on the top tube. Ugh.

As far as bus bike racks, are you getting the 52? I believe I once read on this forum that someone with that size was able to fit it fine in the bus bike rack...

These bikes are so different but so great that I really think you should have BOTH. That's bad advice, isn't it...

[lambbo]

Can only vouch for the Cheviot, which I think is the nicest bike ever.

I have a 60 which is way too long for buses, subways, most trains, and even apartments,
BUT
my friend has the next size down and it's a normal bike size.

Do it!

[Adam Leibow]

I own both. I find the Cheviot to be even stouter than the Clem L. some of this sensation is in the tires (supple compass antelope pass on Clem L and heavier schwalbe smart sam on Cheviot), but I think the triangulation (higher toptube and the extra rear triangle make the cheviot's rear end ride some what rock hard. Echoing what above people have said, the V brakes of the Clem L are much stronger than whatever you'll put on the cheviot. They're both amazing bikes. The effective toptube lengths are quite different, so be aware of that. Good luck with your decision. 

[Tully Lanter]

Lum, lambbo - Agreed on looks! Striking from end to end, head badge included. Not sure it could get nicer.

Bicycle Belle (great username!) - Yes, it would be the 52cm, and I found the thread you mentioned just yesterday. Our local buses can accommodate a wheelbase of 46"...and Mr. Pythagoras tells me ~46.5" on the 52...so I imagine it's close enough.

Joe, Adam - Interesting to hear pretty much opposite takes on their stoutness! If nothing else, that speaks to the difference that the right tires make. 

Aesthetics push me toward the Cheviot, no question. V-brakes would be nice, but I'm satisfied with long-reach Tektro sidepulls and salmon Kool-Stops on my commuter. But the tire clearance...and budget clearance...of a Clem are appealing. Perhaps wisest not to split too many hairs, but take whichever comes up first, knowing I really can't go wrong here.

[Joe Bernard]

Tully, just to be clear, I didn't mention stoutness..they're both plenty stout to me at 190 pounds. For me the Cheviot has a lighter-feeling "road bike" ride, which Adam may be reflecting as stiffer.

Overall both felt plush to me, especially in comparison to my current Roadini. But like you say, tires matter..the Roadini 700c wheels are carrying significantly narrow tires than I had on the other bikes. Shorter stays, too.

[Tully Lanter]

Joe - yep, my mistake. I read stoutness into your words re: the more MTB-like...thanks for clarifying. Makes sense! 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

On Mon, Oct 8, 2018, 9:55 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Tully, just to be clear, I didn't mention stoutness..they're both plenty stout to me at 190 pounds. For me the Cheviot has a lighter-feeling "road bike" ride, which Adam may be reflecting as stiffer. 

Overall both felt plush to me, especially in comparison to my current Roadini. But like you say, tires matter..the Roadini 700c wheels are carrying significantly narrow tires than I had on the other bikes. Shorter stays, too.

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[Mark in Beacon]

I had a 52cm Clementine for several years (sold due to circumstances, not dissatisfaction with the bicycle) and I also helped a friend purchase a Cheviot from Harris Cyclery. I did not find either bike "stout." I'm not even sure I know what that means when used to describe how a bicycle rides.

I know it is fashionable to talk about flex and stiffness and planing and spriteliness, and I will say that a vintage 531 frame definitely gets in synch with my power output. But with a good bike with decent tires, I just like to ride. I was in Chicago for 10 days recently and was quite happy doing 30 miles on the 3-speed Divvy bike. Yeah, Cadillacs are heavy, but the ride is sweet. 

Both the Cheviot and the Clem L are fun, fun, bikes to ride. I think as some have pointed out, geometry, handlebars, tire width, and brakes will make some bit of difference. I will say that I find myself at least as enamored with the Clem L's appearance as the Chevs, and would have to give it the edge at this point. Not only is that lower low tube useful, that swoop dee doop give the bike a classic, laid back look. The welds are nice, it has some lugwork, the Art Carney decal, the paint is super--it's such an approachable, friendly bicycle! A convivial bicycle!

Yes, I am a Clem L fanboy! If anyone has a 52 frame and fork in grilver, I am almost at a point where I could consider reacquiring one--please let me know.

[Mark in Beacon]

Oops, did not see Tully's new post seeking a bike. I withdraw my tentative query for now!

[Tully Lanter]

Ha! Appreciated, Mark. I'll cross my fingers that two 52 Ls are floating around out there!