Tubus racks for Summer tour with a few thoughts & pictures.

[hsmitham]

Howdy Riv folk,

I just purchased two Tubus racks for an upcoming tour in June. Thought I'd post a few pictures of them as I've seen some posts regarding racks quality and load capabilities.

IMHO the tubus racks don't seem as quality built as the Nitto racks but the price was within my range and I liked the idea of a rear light mount on the Cosmo. I also decided on the Nova front rack as to keep the front load low. I read from a reviewer that the Nova was a good choice because of the bottom part which is horizontal to the ground making it easier to attach bungee cords and prevent slip off? Really don't know if that will even matter for my purposes. Also planning on mounting my Mark's rack with the Nova rack as well.

The finish on the Tubus racks is nice, a sort of brushed silver as opposed to the Nitto racks which are more polished, the Tubus look pretty nice though.

I'll be mounting them on my 58cm Hilsen ( pics will be forthcoming ) and I will later report as to their roadworthiness, and function post tour. The durability part will of course be over time.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pedalpusher61/sets/72157633284450138/

Best,

Hugh

Sunland, CA

[PATRICK MOORE]

I've owned several Flys and currently use a Fly, a Logo, and have a Duo for "just in case". I've never even seen a Nitto in person, but from the photos they are certainly prettier. But I have to say that the Tubus racks have an excellent design/capacity-to-price ratio, 'specailly if you buy them from Wayne at thetouringstoredotcom. 

The 11 oz Fly carried 34 lb home from the grocery store t'other day with nary a wobble. I like the Fly's minimalist design.

And Tubus gives them a 10 year guarantee.

That said, scuttlebutt from this or the Bob list says that Axiom racks are even better in terms of capacity-to-dollar-value, with $30 getting you something that is rated for 80 lb.

I have "Sunlight" disc compatible rack that anyone is welcome to for postage. I found that, thanks to the disk caliper mount location, my Fargo doesn't need a special "disk compatible" rack. Note that this capability consists in extenders that hold the struts about an inch from the dropout and that you can use the "Sunlight" on any bike; it just looks a bit bow-legged. It has adjustable struts to fit a 26" wheel frame or a 29" wheel frame.

Like this: http://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Gold-Tec-Disc-Rack/dp/B002MKHR9I

Mounted but little used -- I quickly went to the Logo.

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[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

In use, the Tubus racks are amazingly well designed, particularly if you use them with Ortlieb panniers.

[PATRICK MOORE]

Interesting: I have always used the black powdercoated chomoly versions: these are fillet brazed, with brazing that looks much neater than the blobby welds on the stainless steel ones.

Agree with Jim: Tubus + Ortlieb = great value:dollar ratio. I have Packer Pluses and Packer Sports.

FWIW, and Segwaying: for dollar:value in grocery panniers, I have to recommend Banjo Bros Market Pannier, at about $45/each. Far better than the typical grocery bag pannier at this price level, tho' -- had I the $$ -- I'd seek out something made with a more tightly woven fabric and straps. But for the price, and the convenience of being able to simply drop a stuffed paper grocery sack into the pannier without fighting straps, buckles, pockets, what have you, I am content.

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

+1.  Love them.

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[Steve Palincsar]

On Fri, 2013-04-19 at 14:42 -0600, PATRICK MOORE wrote:
> Interesting: I have always used the black powdercoated chomoly
> versions: these are fillet brazed, with brazing that looks much neater
> than the blobby welds on the stainless steel ones.

The silver powdercoated ones are even nicer. Shame they're not imported
to the USA, but they are available from the UK.

[Kelly]

Here is an option for mounting the low riders without strapping pclamps or adapters to your forks.

http://m.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/7866689574/in/set-72157625210417815/lightbox/

I've used this method on both my AHH and my wife's Atlantis. Picked the hardware up at Ace for a couple bucks. A door plate of some kind with four holes in it. Never did get around to a cleaner version as this worked perfect.

Kelly

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I ordered from Tubus USA last week. They gave me an option for silver in the Logo model. That distributor orders from Germany frequently, so it seems any Tubus product should be available in the US.

[dougP]

Hugh:

You can't go wrong with Tubus, Nitto or Axiom.  I've seen all of them on tours & touring nerds love to talk about racks and panniers.  Jim (from St Paul, was on the Sulphur Mtn ride) has a Cosmo on his Atlantis & likes it a lot.  You can't have too many places to hook bungees when you are touring. 

dougP

[Matthew J]

MHO the tubus racks don't seem as quality built as the Nitto racks but the price was within my range and I liked the idea of a rear light mount on the Cosmo.

The finish on Tubus racks is not as lustrous as on Nitto.  Tubus are otherwise the superior product.  They fit better, are lighter per capacity, and almost certainly will endure longer than a comparable Nitto.

I have nothing against Nitto.  They are nice racks.  But off the shelf the Tubus are head and shoulders above.  Just like Bruce Gordon's racks among the custom tourers.  

[PATRICK MOORE]

How do we know this to be true? I'm not being snarky, I want to know, as one who loves Tubuses and has used many but who would seriously consider Nittos for a "pretty bike" if he had the money and found the right design.

BTW: I read both that Tubus offers a 10 year warranty and that Tubus offers a 30 year warranty. Which izzit? And, just for the record, cheap ol' Axiom offers a *lifetime* warranty to the original owner. I suppose if we were truly rational in our own self interest, those abstract beings beloved of the economists (idiots), we'd all be using Axioms.

I have nothing against Nitto.  They are nice racks.  But off the shelf the Tubus are head and shoulders above.

 

[Matthew J]

I've had and used both.  Obviously it is my opinion, although I would point out an opinion shared by others in the on line and bike shop world.  

Neither my Tubus nor Nitto have broken on me.  I wound up giving the Nitto away as despite its better looks, I preferred the more useful design of the Tubus.

[Mike Schiller]

funny, my opinion is the exact opposite of yours Matthew. The Nitto racks are stronger (but heavier) and the welding/finish is much cleaner from my two samples of Tubus racks.  For me though, I like the perfect fit of custom built racks and find the expense worth it.  But both Nitto and Tubus are good quality racks for most uses.

~mike 

[PATRICK MOORE]

On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 7:54 PM, Matthew J <matth...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've had and used both.  Obviously it is my opinion, although I would point out an opinion shared by others in the on line and bike shop world.

You are saying that you and others -- I assume more than one or two -- in the bike business believe that Tubus racks are "head and shoulders above" Nitto racks?

Again, I don't understand. Why do you (plural) believe this? What about Tubus racks makes them so much better? You speak of design. Are the Nitto designs so much inferior that they fall a head-length below Tubus racks?

Once again, I am not trying to pick a fight, I am simply looking for evidence. What is this evidence? 

[PATRICK MOORE]

On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 7:54 PM, Mike Schiller <mikey...@rocketmail.com> wrote:

The Nitto racks are stronger 

Again and again, I am not trying to be annoying. Can you give the particulars of the evidence that show that Nitto racks are stronger than Tubus racks? 

[Mike Schiller]

My statement was my subjective assessment strictly based on my personal use of both manufacturers racks. I've manipulated Nitto racks a number of times to get the final fit perfect. No signs of damage or visible strain.  I tried that on a Tubus Vega and it broke adjacent to a weld. In hand, the Nitto's feel stiffer and stronger.  I have no variable data like wall thickness or materiel yield strength.  Like I said both are sturdily made and I'm sure will be more than adequate for most uses.  

~mike

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Both are good. Both will hold up to normal use indefinitely.

[Joe Bernard]

Axioms may be swell, but the bargain price stems from country of origin. If that's what you're looking for, fine and dandy, but it warrants a mention.

 

Joe Bernard

Vallejo, CA.

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

I'll add a data point here, being an owner of Tubus, Nitto, Velo-Orange and Racktime (Tubus' low-end) racks.

I have a broken Tubus Fly. It's a black chrome-moly version and it broke at the weld. Yes, I was trying to bend it to fit it to a wider dropout but still, it wasn't a tandem 145mm. It cracked at the weld and Tubus did not answer any of my emails. So that tells me two things: Tubus customer service is non-existent, and Tubus racks are not terribly lenient of manhandling. Perhaps it's a weld/HAZ defect or perhaps it was me being a klutz. I guess we'll never know. What I did expect was that it would bend rather than crack, as with all my Nitto and Velo-Orange racks. Those did not crack at the weld or anywhere else when subjected to the same or even higher displacement adjustments. Sample size is one though.

All my rear racks are strong enough, even when I occasionally piled onto the racks heavy iron/steel discs (used car disc brakes) to deliver for recycling. Even my (intact) stainless Fly was pretty solid. I only have Nitto and Velo-Orange front racks and these aren't really stressed, with the heaviest cargo being my "randonneur" type front bag loaded with food and supplies.

The Velo-Orange racks appear to weather usage the best likely because they are polished stainless steel. There appears to be minimal markings even at the pannier clamp areas. The painted Tubus and Racktime racks have "bald spots" as the supplied protective tape peeled off (useless adhesive) and usage resulted in beausage. No rust though, but then I live in California. The stainless Tubus and Nitto racks look fine (I have both chrome and satin versions of the Nitto) but they show more beausage than the VOs even though they probably see less use.

Overall and in summary, I hesitate to buy Tubus racks again, simply because of the crack of my one rack and the non-responsiveness of Tubus. This despite the rack's light weight and (to me) attractive minimalist design. The Nitto racks are very very attractive and well-made, but expensive and relatively heavy. (I swear I'm not a weight weenie!) They're also as functional as any other rack. I'll buy them if they are the appropriate purchase, if for nothing else than their beauty. The VOs are probably my best buy for racks, at least for my usage pattern. They're cheapish, light but unfortunately also have small platforms. So they're not terribly appropriate for big panniers. For example, my Ortlieb Office bag isn't the most stable on the VO constructor rear rack. However, when used with the appropriate bags, they're tough to beat for value even if they're not the prettiest.

Cheers,
Benz
Sunnyvale, CA

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Axioms are cheap, in part, because of country of origin, yes, but also because they're made and imported by the zillions. I get the impression that Nitto makes racks in batches of tens, or a couple hundred, at most. And then you're paying tons extra for a lopsided currency exchange that has nothing to do with the quality of the workmanship. Tubus may not be much higher volume than Nitto.

I broke a (non-structural) weld on a Tubus rack, too, also by bending it in a way that it wasn't meant to bend. Even with the snapped weld, I used that rack HARD for several years and it worked great, never gave me any problems. I eventually sold it on whatever bike it was on, but I've continued to use Tubus products, and have always been happy with that brand's smart, efficient designs and quality.

As far as Tubus customer service, or any customer service...I never put my faith in an email's ability to communicate my point (or get through spam filters). I have a hunch that a phone call to Ortlieb/Tubus USA would have the desired result. I talk to those people all the time. They're really helpful.

[Matthew J]

I am not an engineer (nor am I all that good at searching discussion forums) but the guy who posts in the Velocipedesalon as blasdelf and makes custom racks under the Haulin Colin name: http://www.haulincolin.com/porteur.html wrote a very good discourse on why Tubus makes the best production touring racks.

His point, and a point I have read elsewhere and that comports with my own experience is the cohesive design of the rack.  Unlike the big Nitto racks which use struts to support the joined pieces, every angle and weld on the Tubus are planned for its overall purpose which is to attach firmly to the bike and allow panniers to attach firmly to the rack.  The Nitto racks are also quite wide compared to the Tubus.  

Nitto are good racks.  They are certainly very attractive.  From a touring (and by that I mean long distance frequent rough road touring not a four day weekend jaunt in the Lake District) perspective, however, looks do not make as much difference as weight and simplicity.  The Tubus is lighter and a less complicated design.

Slightly off topic, I see someone mentions the Velo Orange above.  True, stainless steel keeps its good looks longer than powder coated chro-molly.  But stainless steel is not as strong and weighs more.  The Velo Orange rear racks do not accommodate large panniers well.  It is also difficult to hook Arkel style pannier mounts on the VO racks.

[Matthew J]

About to hit the road right now and just realized I need to provide one detail to keep my posts in context - except for the Bruce Gordon that had his racks, my touring bikes have 126 spacing. Nitto width may make more sense on a 135 or tandem.

[Mike Schiller]

not that I know either of them but ... for your info blasdelf and Haulincolin are not the same person. He does own one of Colin's racks though.  

~mike

[Kelly]

With fully loaded touring the weight difference is insignificant. The wider Nitto has advantages when mounting bags or strapping other supplies on the rear rack between panniers. Nitto is also easier to mount Arkel at least panniers on.
The Tubus protects the rear light better, allows for lower mounting of the panniers. I was unable to notice a difference in ride quality.

Currently my wife has Tubus front and rear and I am running Nitto rear, Tubus low rider front and both of us have Nitto mini fronts.

Both are great racks and have delivered many weeks of on the road service without issue.

I trust them both

Kelly

[dougP]

Don't put too much faith in warranties.  A "limited warranty" is written to protect the issuer (company, dealer, etc) by limiting liability to certain specific situations or issues.  It is NOT intended to protect the customer or consumer of the product, but rather to limit the extent of claims.  "Lifetime warranty" usually covers the reasonable expected lifetime of the product for its intended purpose, not the lifetime of the customer.  A 30 year warranty on anything, except maybe a rock, ain't gonna happen. 

dougP

[Peter Morgano]

A wise man once said "I can take a crap in a box and mark it guaranteed, but at then end of the day all you have is a guaranteed piece of crap"

--

[Joe Bernard]

There is always only one answer to "I bent it and it broke": "Don't do that."

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

And the corollary to that will be "It doesn't work".

[hsmitham]

Wow when I decide to create this post I had no idea! I want to thank all who have contributed and thank you for sharing all of your experiences with the Tubus, Nitto, Axiom and other racks. Still haven't had a chance to mount my new racks, but will soon enough. What I have learned so far is don't bend a Tubus rack too far  or else, and Jim Thill's comment:

"As far as Tubus customer service, or any customer service...I never put my faith in an email's ability to communicate my point (or get through spam filters). I have a hunch that a phone call to Ortlieb/Tubus USA would have the desired result. I talk to those people all the time. They're really helpful."

I didn't buy my Tubus racks because they had a 10 year warranty I purchased them because they seemed to have been well thought out and their price point, and as I stated I have no experience with any of these racks but look forward to having some data to report back.

Again thanks to all.

Best,

Hugh 

[hsmitham]

Thought I'd add this interesting article I came across about a frame and rack builder from the 80's I found it interesting I hope you do as well.

Hugh

Sunland, CA

[Shoji Takahashi]

Thanks for posting that, Hugh. Nice read. Now I'm gonna google for more pics.

[Hugh Smitham]

Hi Shoji,

I found it on the Classic Rendezvous lightweight vintage bicycles
group. I think he posted one of his original bikes there recently.

Best,

Hugh
Hugh
Sunland, Ca

On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 7:56 AM, Shoji Takahashi
<shoji.t...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for posting that, Hugh. Nice read. Now I'm gonna google for more
> pics.
>
>
>
> On Friday, April 26, 2013 3:36:16 AM UTC-4, hsmitham wrote:
>>
>> Thought I'd add this interesting article I came across about a frame and
>> rack builder from the 80's I found it interesting I hope you do as well.
>>
>>

>> Hugh
>> Sunland, CA
>>
>> On Monday, April 22, 2013 7:11:53 PM UTC-7, hsmitham wrote:
>>>
>>> Wow when I decide to create this post I had no idea! I want to thank all
>>> who have contributed and thank you for sharing all of your experiences with
>>> the Tubus, Nitto, Axiom and other racks. Still haven't had a chance to mount
>>> my new racks, but will soon enough. What I have learned so far is don't bend
>>> a Tubus rack too far or else, and Jim Thill's comment:
>>>
>>> "As far as Tubus customer service, or any customer service...I never put
>>> my faith in an email's ability to communicate my point (or get through spam
>>> filters). I have a hunch that a phone call to Ortlieb/Tubus USA would have
>>> the desired result. I talk to those people all the time. They're really
>>> helpful."
>>>
>>> I didn't buy my Tubus racks because they had a 10 year warranty I
>>> purchased them because they seemed to have been well thought out and their
>>> price point, and as I stated I have no experience with any of these racks
>>> but look forward to having some data to report back.
>>>
>>> Again thanks to all.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Hugh
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>

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[René Sterental]

Nice article! Thanks for posting it.

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