Rivendell vs Crust! Which is Better?

[Ben Miller]

The "Path Less Pedaled" YouTube channel just released a video with the provocative title "Rivendell vs Crust! Which is Better?" 

The actual video is a lot less provocative. Basically Russ comparing his Hillborne to his Bombora. Still interesting, but maybe less so than it could be? 

I imagine Crust and Rivendell must get compared to each other a lot. I know that their the only two bike frames I currently own and ride, so I do it more or less constantly. I imagine that this is partly due to Matt & Bene purposefully designing the Romanceur frame with the Rivendell aesthetic in mind. I think Russ sort of touches on that, when comparing the Bombora to the All City and the Hillborne to the Richtey. He seems to be saying, the Ritchey/All City aesthetic lacked something the Riv/Crust bikes had. 

Anyways, I think of Crust as threadless, disc, and low trail compared to Rivendell with rim brakes, quill stems, and high trail. Like most thing's not hard and fast (see: Canti Lightning Bolt). What's your hot take on the two?

I think both bike companies are really doing some amazing and important stuff for the bike industry. What I think would be really interesting collaboration between Grant and Matt. Maybe something along the lines of the Soma San Marcos, but both providing inputs. That'd be really cool!

[Mark Schneider]

I deliberately didn't bother to watch it because it's a stupid click bate title and a ridiculous premise. Like Ben stated they're both great bikes, but quite different. My custom Terafrerrma is nothing like my Masi, or my Homer or Atlantis. If I'm going on a long fastish ride but want my camera in my bag in front of me I take the low trail custom. I use the old Masi if I just want to ride hard and fast. But most the time I just chill on one of the Rivendell's that are still fast, fun, and plush.

I found the idea as ridiculous as people arguing who's better, Clapton, Page Beck, or Mick Taylor. (It's obviously Peter Green)lol.

I'm sure I'll watch the video eventually, Russ does a great job and he's level headed and fair.

Mark

Half Moon Bay area

[Fullylugged]

Several frame makers over the years have copied (or tried to) the Rivendell design DNA. V-O, New Albion, Handsome and Rawland come to mind before the more recent Crust.  I rode someone's Norvindian and was surprise how UNLIKE my Riv it actually rode. I built a New Albion for a cousin and liked it (especially at its price point) but also, easy to tell the difference in ride.  Riv has evolved significantly since its beginning. A Long Low or Road does not ride anywhere near the same as a current long stay, slack angle, fat tire Joe Appa, Clem or even a Hillborne. I think, as Riv often says in their own ad copy, all their bikes still "have that Rivendell feel." I tend to agree with that.

As to which is "better," taste is always in the sense of the taster. I lean towards Rivendell and still recommend them to other riders looking for comfortable, useful bikes that are also rolling works of art.

Bruce 

[Ryan M.]

I always enjoy Russ' videos and this one was also worth the watch. I've never ridden a Crust Bombora and can't compare it to my Rivs, so it's nice to get a comparison by someone who owns both. 

I've always liked the way my Rivs ride, and I've been through a few of them. 

[Philip Barrett]

Actually it's Rory Gallagher.

On Tuesday, February 9, 2021 at 10:33:43 PM UTC-6 Mark Schneider wrote:

[Ben Mihovk]

I have an Atlantis and I am very interested in Crust. I just think they're cool as all get out. If someone gave enough money to go buy a new Crust Bombora and build it up, I'd probably just go look for a Rambouillet in my size :) 

Everything that Russ says about the differences in the Riv make me think that Crust isn't for me. I like "chill, supple, laid back." Even if I want to go find a lighter frame to try drops and faster riding, I'd still prioritize the things that Riv does that other's aren't (rim brakes, quill stem, geometry that accommodates upright posture, etc...). 

Love Russ and his videos. I look forward to his video updates almost as much as I do blahgs. 

Ben

[Daman Mohan Kumar]

Firstly, apologies for the off-topic comment. Every last one of those guitarists Mark mentioned are English (or British, this is one of those things I absolutely cannot wrap my head around no matter how many times I read about it).

No further comments, though - I just found it incredibly interesting how that bunch of stellar musicians came out of the same region.

Daman

[Philip Barrett]

OT on...

English = from the country of England

British = from the countries of England, Scotland, Wales & Northern Island

Growing up in post war Britain was drab, dreary & dark. While the US was enjoying the greatest economic boom in history & the sun shone every day in Southern California the British were still under rationing, plagued with unemployment, industrial unrest & surrounded by the toll (both physical and emotional) extracted by a total war. In other words, it was cold, dark, gloomy, there were 2 channels on the TV, when the miners went on strike the power went out and there was generally f*** all to do. So if you picked up a musical instrument you had both the time & the inclination (get me the hell out of here) to get really good at it!

Combine all that time with latent talent and a ready supply of "exotic" music brought back across the pond by merchant seaman and you had a primordial stew just ready to produce winged flight. Then a lot of begating started. It was a moment in time unlikely to ever repeat itself unfortunately.

Now check out Rory Gallagher (who was Irish actually), I'll start you off here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlEfyMoR49M&ab_channel=thanasisSkrepMetalo

Back to our regularly scheduled programming...

[Ben Miller]

Some interesting ideas here! 

Mark says: "Clapton, Page Beck, or Mick Taylor. (It's obviously Peter Green)lol." Well, I can't think Clapton, Beck and Page without thinking about Supergroups. So maybe I am thinking too small here... What about a collaboration between Grant, Matt, and JP? Petersen, Whitehead, and Weigle???  Haha

[Jason Fuller]

Totally agree on the Crust / Riv collaboration frame. That would be really neat. I love the idea of single-batch collaboration runs like this, and it would be cool to see more of them.  I tried to publicly connect Ocean Air Cycles and Rivendell to spark a MIT run of their Rambler frameset but it didn't work haha. 

I imagine that collaborative frame being fairly sporty tubing but tons of tire clearance, and pretty long in the TT for upright bars or zero-reach drop setups 

[Mike Godwin]

Actually its Richard Thompson

Mike SLO CA

[Peter Adler]

Please; Allan Holdsworth. Who, curiously, was a lifelong road cyclist and a bike repairman in the early stages of his musical career.

http://www.bikeblognyc.com/2017/04/second-passion-of-allan-holdsworth/

Peter "a former guitar repairman" Adler

Berkeley, CA/USA

[George Rosselle]

I feel compelled to throw Tony McPhee into the running, but Jeff Beck is still my all time favorite. 

[rlti...@gmail.com]

Richard Thompson is of the best I’ve seen. And a great songwriter. Right now I’m leaning towards Robert Fripp but it’s hard to argue against Thompson. 

As far as bikes go, for me old Riv > Crust while Crust > new Riv. I can’t really get into a lot of the newer frames Riv has put out but I love the older models. I’m a Riv retrogrouch I guess.

Robert Tilley

San Diego, CA

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 10, 2021, at 11:47 AM, Mike Godwin <spoke...@gmail.com> wrote:

Actually its Richard Thompson

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[Ben Miller]

Well, I guess this thread has gone entirely OT.

[Mark Roland]

I agree with Mark S. that the title is just silly clickbait and don't have much interest in watching. I'm sure the video itself is more nuanced, but still not that interested. Crust makes some interesting bicycles, and they appeal to all the people who complain that Rivendell won't do disc brakes or low trail--almost a market sitting there waiting to be provided to.

I guess there have been some almost blatant attempts at copying, but that is not necessarily a bad thing, especially if it captures enough of the good but maybe at a lower price point. Also, everyone "copies" --Grant did not reinvent the wheel. However, he took designs (and materials) that had fallen from favor and continued developing them. I think his designs of the last five years are his most radical and successful. One way I know they are the most radical is that it's much harder to find a vintage platform to build up a wanna-be Rivendell--there just isn't anything out there that is close. The way I know they are successful is I own three of them.

By the way, the Rawland  Nordavinden  mentioned above, other than being steel, is not particularly Rivish. It uses standard size tubing and it has a barely sloped 7/4/7 top tube and a low trail geometry. It is much more in the vein of a Bicycle Quarterly Rando machine. I had the pleasure of being part of the online design crew that helped develop Rawland's previous offering, the rSogn. It too had a lightweight, standard diameter top tube and low trail design. The main differences were all sizes were 650b, more sloped tt, clearance for wider tires, threadless, beefier fork, and cantilever brakes. Here's mine (since sold, replaced by a L'avecaise, also since sold):

[Jason Fuller]

I miss the days when Rawland did curved fork legs :(  Such gorgeous frames.  I am sure the current models ride nice but just not the same. 

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[Joe Bernard]

I don't think a Riv vs. anything low trail really counts as a comparison, it's two very different approaches to what is considered the "right" way for a bicycle to handle. But my bias is extreme, I bought a Crust Lightning Bolt (disc) and hoo boy did I learn the expensive way that I do not like low trail. Rivs ride the way I need my bikes to ride. 

On Tuesday, February 9, 2021 at 8:03:14 PM UTC-8 Ben Miller wrote:

[Joe Bernard]

Which - to be clear - is my response to the premise of the thread which is the premise of the Path Less Pedaled thing. I'm not objecting to the thread being a thread. 

Joe "let me say this about that" Bernard

[Mark Roland]

Sorry, cut off the fork legs! Re: current models. I don't think there are any. Didn't they implode a few years back? (One more non-Riv element to the Nord--43mm chainstays across all sizes.)

[Tom M]

FWIW, the particular Crust Russ is reviewing isn't low trail — he said it's 76 or 75 mm. I don't have a particular dog in the fight, and I enjoyed the video and don't consider it click-bait. As Russ said, he gets asked this type of question all the time, so why not do a video?

And re: guitarists—thanks to Philip for the Rory Gallagher link. I'd never heard of him but will now check him out.

Tom Milani

Alexandria, VA USA

[lconley]

I get a big kick out of all the people with commentary on a video that they did not watch. As Tom pointed out, the Sam Hillborne is the "low trail" bike in this comparison - you need to watch the video to know what is in it. Note that I have one Crust (Scapegoat) and 12 Rivendells.

One word on guitarists: Hendrix.

Laing

[Eric Daume]

I’ve had a lot of bikes pass through my garage, but my rSogn is one of the few I regret selling. 

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[Den John]

OK, since we're off topic anyway, which companies/individual framebuilders can be compared with which classic rock bands/musicians? Here's a couple of attempts:

Riv> Grateful Dead: fanatically loyal fanbase, plus lots of people who just don't get it maaaaan.

Surly> Fleetwood Mac. Tend to get dismissed as lightweight pop, but did some innovative stuff in their time.

Bruce Gordon> John Lydon. Bit scary, tends to rub people up the wrong way, but a major influence.

Crust> David Bowie. Flirting with all kinds of different identities. A bit erratic but always good quality.

Johnny in Belgium

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[Mark Roland]

Laing wrote: I get a big kick out of all the people with commentary on a video that they did not watch.

The PLP post is titled Rivendell vs. Crust. Which is Better?  There are no models in the title, and that is what brings it to the realm of clickbait. The OP also states right up front that the video is less provocative.  Generally, Rivendell vs. Crust, some of the qualities that separate them are disc brakes, more conventional chainstay lengths, and yes, low trail. Based on the thrust of the thread starter, I would say perfectly legitimate to comment without bothering to watch the actual video referenced. Obviously a Sam Hillborne does not qualify as low trail. It may be lower trail than bike x, but not low trail. I did find it mildly amusing that he was noting the differences between 42.5 and 45.5 chainstays. He should try a Susie!

From an aesthetic point of view, I find his videos hard to watch due to the editing/splicing. I wish he would let the camera roll through a bit more--maybe he could have a cheat board of notes if he can't talk extemporaneously. As it is, the video is noticeably spliced after every sentence or two.  Maybe this is normal these days with vlogs, and it's just me being old. Oh well.

[Philip Barrett]

Path Less Pedalled is one of the good guys and I think Russ works alone out of his (unheated) garage in Montana which may account for some of the editing trickery? Personally I find it great that there is so much great stuff to watch out there for absolutely no cost, most of these creators are making maybe a few bucks a month doing this. If I don't agree with a channel I just click through.

[Ben Mihovk]

If I had a YouTube channel and wanted people to watch, click the like button, subscribe, etc... I'd probably write titles that makes people want to click them. When I go shopping for a car, I don't get bent about car sales tactics that are there for a reason, even if they kind of annoy me. I know I'm trying to be manipulated online with YouTube titles, I recognize it, and I accept that it's something they have to do. 

As for the aesthetic of the edits being rough, I don't know if this is the case or not, but I think it's intentional. Russ has a background in film and photography, so I have to think that producing videos with that jumpiness is intended. 

I'm not saying it's good or bad, but the jumpy edits could be argued to be good because they do create a feeling of energy/excitement by eliminating long pauses. 

I could be (and usually am) totally wrong and Russ just throws these together without thinking about it. But I think knowing his tendencies and background, I'd say he means to do it.

If it turns you off, that's totally fair and I'm not saying it shouldn't. He reminds me of John Green's YouTube videos...same kind of editing, no dead space, frenetic and fast paced energy, etc... 

Ben "not an expert on video editing theory" in Omaha 

On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 9:59:14 AM UTC-6 Mark Roland wrote:

[Mike Packard]

I love bike comparison videos of every kind. I want to see Rivs vs Rivs with some tiny difference, Riv vs Crusts, Surlys, carbon TT bikes, everything. I want to see "I took my Electra Townie to a pump track", "super-low-trail bike vs penny farthing for grocery getter", "55 Atlantis 29er vs 56 Atlantis 650b", "Same bike with 12 different handlebar setups", etc. 

I like what Russ at Path Less Pedaled is doing; he's all about the "non-competitive side of cycling" which aligns with RBW perfectly.

Mike

Austin TX

[Mark Roland]

Just to clarify, I'm certainly not getting bent because I'm not a fan of the video editing (or the content, for that matter.) And whether or not he is making money, or is trying to make money, or is performing a public service because he enjoys the luxury of enough free time to do so, is not really relevant. He is obviously sincere in what he does and seems to have a decent following. And good for him. After watching the video above, I would not be able to use it to make a decision as to which bike might be better for me. On the one hand, he refers to the Bombora as spicey and sporty. On the other, he says the Riv's steering is quicker, but keeps calling it relaxed and chill. Hard to tell, but it looks like maybe the Bombora has more drop from saddle to bars. Who knows.

[Ben Miller]

Okay, okay, I have to admit Johnny's comparisons of "Riv is to the Dead as Crust is to Bowie" got a laugh out of me. That and some of the other comments got me thinking a bit, Riv and Crust are more than just the bikes. Sure other bike companies were influenced by Grant: Surly, Velo Orange, Rawland, etc, but I'd make a case that they lack the personality that Riv and Crust have. 

Crust literally started because Matt made the bikes that he and his friends wanted to ride: Evasion/Matt, Scapegoat/The Goat, Cheeco/Angelica, and Romanceur/Ronnie. That's pretty bold and subversive in a Riv way. And these are bikes that definitely didn't exist in any other form at the time. In many ways, the Bombora which Russ used in the comparisons is the most "normal" bike in the Crust lineup (Dan from Bike Insights made a flowchart and to get to the Bombora the answer is "Man, I just want a bike. I'm not a weirdo")

But even more than that, the team a Crust is then filled out with these personalities. Much like Riv highlighting their team through "Staff Bikes" and their Instagram account, Crust does that too with their Elevator to Hell videos. And both companies use their platform to raise awareness to causes they care about. Crust's sponsoring of the Slim One because they can and think it is the right thing to do is along the same lines as Riv's BRF experiment, though perhaps less controversial. And Grant being open about cash flow problems isn't that different from Crust taking a break over holidays and being open about feeling overwhelmed at the time. 

All this adds up to two companies that are almost as much about the people as the bikes. I find myself routing for Grant and Matt, hoping their projects work out even if I don't want that particular one for myself. I definitely can't say that about Surly or New Albion. In a way, both companies are a bit like custom builders because of that, you feel a personal connection. I think that is what the makes the Rivendell vs Crust comparison so unique. 

As far as guitarists: James Iha, Dave Navarro, John Frusciante. Yes, I am Gen X.

(Disclaimer: I will tip my hat to Velo Orange, especially when Chris at the helm, feels like a company that had a real personal touch and a sense of humor) 

[Joe Bernard]

I responded to the original post which referred to the Crust as the low trail bike. I didnt watch the video, it doesn't interest me and I wasn't responding to its content. 

[Joe Bernard]

My guitarist is Peter Frampton. Get his new instrumental album April 23rd, this is Reckoner, a Radiohead song. Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/RHdj_-x_51c

[Addison Wilhite]

Ah... Reckoner...one of my favorite songs from my favorite band.  And one of the first songs I learned when I purchased my first guitar in January 2020, PreCovid times.  This live version is still my favorite:

https://youtu.be/2FMP-9bn9N8

Addison Wilhite, M.A. 

Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology 

“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”

Portfolio and Blog

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[Garth]

Which is better ..... ahahahahahah\a ... that's good one !  

What's better mean ?

(looking in the dictionary ....)

( shrugs shoulders )

It's defined with more words..... and each one of those words is defined by yet more words. Kinda wordy isn't it ?

(((( smiling ))))

Lots of words but doesn't really say anything meaningful.

Yes.

Like an irresistible wabbit hole that goes nowhere.

The irresistible temptation ..... to ask .... to quest .....

And for what ?

The "ask" itself. The ask asks itself about itself ....  the quest quests about itself ..... the wonder wonders about itself .

Thinking thinks about itself.

BEING IS SELF

George Winston .... Autumn, December.

[Garth]

Ray Lynch ..... Nothing Above My Shoulders But The Evening

[Joe Bernard]

Party on, Garth 👊

[Den John]

I absolutely agree with Ben's point about how both Rivendell and Crust have tried to build up a subculture around their brands that is about more than just the bikes.

At the same time, doing this helps people get an idea of what you can do with the bikes they make, e.g. the way the Scapegoat is a model designed by someone who does

a very specific sort of riding.

Couple more guitarist-frame builder connections:

Tom Ritchey > Tony Iommi: Played pivotal role in creation of entire genre. Had to compete with a flamboyant frontman to get credit (Ozzy/Gary Fisher)

JP Weigle > Robert Fripp: Perfectionist with distinctive style. Not well known outside the circle of cognoscenti

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[Mark Roland]

I don't think anyone is disputing the notion that Rivendell and Crust are niche brands that have created a feeling, or lifestyle or culture around their brand. Those words sound not quite right and maybe a bit too premeditated. In the case of these two companies, the marketing angle is really an outgrowth of who they are and what they believe in and share with their customers. Anyway not breaking news. I'm going Mark Knopfler/Grant Petersen. True, Knopfler races cars. But he also started the Notting Hillbillies, which is kinda like Hillibikes, going back to roots. And he's good, and went against the heavy rock/punk scene in the late 70s, forging his own way.

[Den John]

Well one of the interesting questions that follows from the Riv/Crust approach is whether anyone else is doing the same thing. If not, why?

The only example I know of for certain is Stooge Cycles in the UK, which has an approach based on limited runs of production

bikes made in a major Taiwanese factory. Each run of bikes has its own identity, but within a general concept of progressive

geometry, non-suspension steel bikes with a nod to early MTB history. It seems to be working well: each run sells out pretty quickly.

Stooge also gets its identity from the fact it's basically run by one person, who puts a lot of his personal interests into it.

Oh, and the band/music link is already done for you with Stooge :-)

Black Mountain Cycles is another example I suppose.

I didn't intend to imply that any of this stuff is contrived. I think with these smaller brands, the identity emerges as they go on and try different ideas. So it's interesting to follow them.

If anyone can think of a bike brand that would match with Jello Biafra, I'd be interested to hear about it.

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[Jason Fuller]

Finally watched the video. Nothing too surprising in there but quite pragmatic.  I think those who were immediately turned off by the "click bait" title are (understandably) reactionary towards this and missed the actual intention of the title: it's simply a quote of the question he apparently gets asked a lot. 

[greenteadrinkers]

Hahaha, love this.

Riv> Creedence Clearwater Revival

Surly> Captain Beefheart

Bruce Gordon> Steely Dan

Crust> Naplam Death

[Mark Roland]

Jason wrote: Finally watched the video. Nothing too surprising in there but quite pragmatic.  I think those who were immediately turned off by the "click bait" title are (understandably) reactionary towards this and missed the actual intention of the title: it's simply a quote of the question he apparently gets asked a lot. 

I don't think anybody here missed the intention of the title, especially since the OP says right up front that the video is "less provocative." And that is not the quote. The quote is "What I get asked is, is this bike better than this one." He decides to use as an example two bikes he owns, a Rivendell Sam Hillborne and a Crust Bombora. The title is Rivendell vs Crust! Which Is Better? The intention of the title is to get people to watch the video. Which is what a good title is supposed to do. What puts it kind of in the clickbait realm is, the video is not about one bike company vs another bike company. Also, he does not answer even the specific question of which of these two models is "better." So it's mildly deceptive and it doesn't deliver the answer to the question it poses, the definition of clickbait.

Certainly, most people who subscribe to the channel or know these bike companies know that any title with versus in it is not going to deliver, especially when the question is which is better. It's all kind of silly, right? But we still like the idea that somebody is going to come down on one side or the other, just so we can totally agree. Or totally disagree.  It fulfills the same role as gossip. And It doesn't matter. Just like this thread doesn't matter. It's cheap, harmless fun during a cold & snowy mid-winter  snap (at least here in the Northeast). Although he did not make any declarations, it does seem as though he goes for the Hillborne more these days. So I'm going with Rivendell FTW by decision. And after watching the thing, I confirmed my initial opinion that I wasn't interested. But since I didn't fall for the initial clickbait, I'm really not the target audience anyway. I admire him for eking out a place in the online bicycle space, it's crowded out there. It's 19 degrees F in Beacon right now, supposed to get down to 12 by morning. 

Path Less Pedaled = The Traveling Wilburys

On Friday, February 12, 2021 at 2:18:52 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:

[Philip Williamson]

I enjoy the “Bike Brand Guru = ‘70s Guitar God” game way more than I enjoy listening to ‘70s guitar gods.
I only know Rory Gallagher from the Black 47 song “Rory.”

I’ll watch the Russ video later, and then comment if I have anything to say.

Philip

Santa Rosa, CA

[Philip Barrett]

Confession; I got to work with Rory before his demons killed him. It was both a joy and a tragedy, he was such a prolific talent and one of the sweetest people you could meet. But daily in the studio, by mid-evening he had drunk himself to the point of no return and we spent the next 6 to 8 hours wasting take after take. Broke my heart to watch.

Incidentally, of all the guitar players I've had the privilege to work with, Joe Walsh is probably the next favorite in line. That man can make a solo out of 4 notes and have you on your back with laughter all at the same time.

[James Cooper]

I second Philip’s point. I am glad that Russ is putting attention to “alternative” forms of cycling. His video on the Sam prompted me to start looking for a Riv in the first place. I definitely dont think he is living large off of YT.

James

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[Anthony Coffin]

Perfectly stated, Ben! I have a Lightningbolt Disc in large part because I wanted to support a small company that was disrupting the bike industry, but I was also curious about low trail. I plan to buy an Appaloosa in the next batch in a large part because of BRF, and secondly because I don't think any other bike brand in the world will ride like it.

There are a few other companies making decent steel frames. Where Crust and Riv differ is a more keen eye for style, and pushing boundaries. More importantly for me, they both seem to have a business model that prioritizes individuals, and the ideas that matter to them. I would be fine riding around on modified 70's road bikes, but these brands make me feel good about supporting them.

Btw, I'm a Gen X'er as well, fwiw.

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[Patrick Moore]

Very late to the party as usual, but the band merits its mention.

Bike content: Riv custom road clone built for 1930s-1950s SA hub gears, music: one of Tuba Skinny's classics, late version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I-aWr8uvgw

On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 8:05 AM Den John <john...@gmail.com> wrote:

OK, since we're off topic anyway, which companies/individual framebuilders can be compared with which classic rock bands/musicians? Here's a couple of attempts:

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Patrick Moore]

About 3:17: clarinet solo: honking a hill in a 70" gear with strong wind at your back.

The Jerry Garcia of clarinetists.

Over and out.

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[bo richardson]

peter green

the comment about dark cold wet dreary are confirmed in my visit to britain in the mid 60s

the videos of kids and the band having a great time

with peter green and fleetwood mac

what a lost era

as pete townsend said for a skinny not great looking fellow with a big nose

his guitar was a ticket to girls

if done well, not obvious comparisons can reveal oblique insights.

george orwell wrote a comparison of james joyce and henry miller

orwells  piece revealed a lot i never saw about what both writers were up 

it  made my jaw drop

i will check out some of the other guitarists mentioned

i love my Rambouillet

[masmojo]

Sorry, I meant to comment a while back, but I can only comment on my computer since Google "updated" on my phone

I don't think the title of the video is particularly misleading (Youtube only gives you so much space). 

Regular's would know that two of Russ's bikes are A Riv. and a Bombora. That being the case I am sure he got asked nearly daily which he liked better and a video probably seemed like the appropriate response

While it may be true they are different bikes in execution, they are similar in purpose.

The Bombora isn't low trail, but it has a real stable ride that any Rivendell owner would feel right at home on. While it's not the same as a Sam, that's probably the Rivendell it is most similar to.

People who like Riv's might be drawn (as I was) to Crust because they incorporate those elements that Grant doesn't Thru Axles, Threadless steer tubes, Disc brakes, Etc.

Crust's are definitely a riff on the Rivendell esthetic, but they go on beyond that. the Evasion and the Scapegoat are clear examples. The Evasion is easily The single most versatile bike I've ever owned!  it can be built up in so many different guises, with a variety of wheel diameter and/or widths.  It will outlast virtually every other bike I own.

I find that Russ's video's are typically not too informative to me personally, because he and I tend to buy/ride the same bikes, but I like to hear if his experience is similar to mine.

He got a Polyvalent about the same time I did.

He got his Sam after I'd been riding an Atlantis for some time

He Got a Bombora after I'd been riding one.

I think he mentioned having a Rawland at one time(?) and I still have one. (which IS Low trail)  For a Semi-flat bar bike I prefer the lower trail and my Drakkar is the best I've ever ridden at carrying a front load. The two main issues that knocked the Rawland out as a "Rivendell substitute" for me is the substantial toe overlap and difficulty attaching a rear fender on a bike with rear facing horizontal Dropouts. I've had mine 10 years and it's fun to ride. 

The one area I really enjoy the Disc braked crusts is that they are so versatile.  I have 3 Crusts and 2 of them have more than one wheel set. The Bombora has a set with semi-slicks and another with knobbies. the Scapegoat has a 27.5" X 3" set and the recently built 29" set.

[Hugh Smitham]

The one that makes you happiest.