How hearty/quiet Honjo Fenders?

[Deacon Patrick]

I’m contemplating hammered Honjo Fenders on my Quickbeam for all the wet and slop, but, as my periodic fender posts attest, fender noise, heartiness for my trail riding, and challenges with knobbies make the entire equation iffy, which is why I’ve avoided the $132 expenditure trying everything else first.

Thoughts from folks riding Honjo fenders on rough stuff and/or with knobbies on how hearty and quiet and sturdy they are, especially in comparison to SKS plastic?

With abandon,
Patrick

www.CredoFamily.org
www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

[Tony DeFilippo]

I can't answer for honjo's, but berthoud stainless are rock solid and quiet for me over 2+ years of use. I'm sure your off-road use will stress any fender set up. But the difference between SKS and Berthoud was night and day for me.

[Patrick Moore]

I think that the Honjos -- perhaps other aluminum fenders, too? -- are more prone to cracking if they are improperly installed with stress at attachment points. I base this on a sample of 1 pair of Honjos that cracked at the brake bridge -- I've owned at least 1 other pair of Honjos, at least 2 other pairs of alum fenders, and 2 prs of Berthouds, as well as any number of plastic fenders, of all makes -- so take this suggestion with caution.

I do think that SKS and PB fenders are less prone to breaking at stress points; at any rate, I've installed any number of these sloppily and never had a pair break. And I don't know about others, but I do have to be careful not to dent my Berthouds.

And FWIW again, I've never found well-attached SKS or PB fenders unduly rattly or flexy even on rough ground, and would probably choose one of these makes for the Matthews if I put fenders on it again because I know I can kick and bash these around without damaging them. (It had PB Cascadias on it until I installed Big Ones, which are too fat to put fenders over and avoid excessive (*) toe overlap.

* I tolerated toe overlap with the Cascadias over the 51 mm Furious Freds, but the BOs are 1 cm wider. TCO is tolerable with the BOs if sans fenders.

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Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?

[Surlyprof]

When I acquired my Hillborne, it had Honjo Hammered fenders.  I found them to be very sturdy and beautiful but the noise drove me batty.  They didn't have enough clearance for my Smart Sam knobbies but looked sharp with Barlow Pass ELs.  I ended up giving them to Evan E. on the list.  He used them to beautify one of his classic bikes.  I replaced them with a pair of SKS plastics Riv sold.  Not as pretty but also not as loud on all the gravel trails I need to ride.

John

[Lum Gim Fong]

Knobbies + fenders + offroad.
Is that safe?

[Patrick Moore]

That combination may be one more reason for using SKS fenders, with the QR attachments. OTOH, sticks can still jam your wheel even without fenders -- I recall my brother doing a very slow and elegant front wheelie -- he avoided the face plant -- when a stick stopped his front wheel on one of our bosque trails; and his bike was shod with a Soma Cazadero tire with minimal tread. I myself pay very careful attention when riding near sticks, even with the un-fendered, practically treadless Big Ones.

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 11:29 PM, Lum Gim Fong <john1...@gmail.com> wrote:

Knobbies + fenders + offroad.
Is that safe?

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[Ron Mc]

I'm going to take exception with Patrick, in that, you'll never crack any fender unless you install it with external residual stress (and yes, he admitted that).  

I have one set of Honjos that has been on two bikes, for many, many thousands of miles - wrecked on the 1st bike, reshaped the S-shaped front fender to install them on the second bike.  

Honjos take very well to shaping compound curves.  Spread them every inch or so to tighten the radius, squeeze, etc.to increase the radius.  

  

I don't hesitate to ride the bike in slop, but on my Compass slicks, and the reason I don't care about the slop is I use tire wipers where most put their mud guards.  They reject everything from the fenders and scrape occasional mud from the tires, preventing the fenders from plugging.  Zero noise on gravel roads.  That said, not intended for riding in mud, but dealing with intermittent mud patches

  

Jan didn't like this, but for Many (thousand) miles, it works fine.  Have flipped the front scraper backwards, and it simply deflects out of the way.  It rejects rocks, sticks, chert and most of the mud from entering the fender.  

I don't think I'd use any fenders with knobbies.  I think I'd go with mountain bike type mudguards for knobbies.  

[Tony DeFilippo]

Ron, on the tire wipers do you have them in contact at all with your tires?  I installed the compass wipers on my Saluki last fall and found them to be fiddly, lots of adjustment to keep them from buzzing on the tire.  I've got them off the tire enough now to not require ride to ride adjustment but I also now question the utility.

I will say that I don't notice picking up small rocks to rattle my fenders come to think of it but I also haven't ridden any significant gravel.

Tony

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[Ron Mc]

Hi Tony, no, I have them just Not contacting the tires.  When I hear the tire rub noise, I adjust them, but that's very infrequent.  So fiddling time is minimal.  I avoid riding off curbs, because that knocks the front out of shape, and I have to stop and reshape it.  

On another bike I use the SKS Raceblade XL, plus a PDW Origami front mud guard on the seat tube to make them close enough full-coverage fenders.  

Here I have the tire wipers in the more traditional position.  They still help with mud, but don't reject sticks and rocks. . 

What they help most for is installing the fenders - I get the position correct immediately, and can install these in 2 min.  

BTW, these fenders you shape by sliding them in the stays.  Once you get the shape correct, they come with self-tapping screws to permanently fix the fender in the stays.  

[Ron Mc]

ps - I frequently ride gravel roads, and no rock pick-up.  My buddy with metal fenders and no wipers here, his bike sounds like popcorn on gravel.  

[Ron Mc]

Come to think of it, I wouldn't be afraid of using the Raceblade XL with knobbies, because the height is easily adjustable - this might be an option for you, Deac. 

Even though they're rated for 32mm, they provide great coverage and clearance with my 38mm Barlows.  

[Patrick Moore]

That's remarkable. Now, my Honjos were the "hammered" type; I wonder if that made them more brittle, or if that's not the cause, at any rate, more prone to cracking?

Good to know about compound curves; I hope eventually to replace the Berthouds on one of my Rivs (which I slightly marred in a clumsy first attempt at shaping to fit between narrow stays and fork), and given your comment, I may try to snap up any FS Honjos I see on-list. The marring is minor enough that I won't swap unless I see a good deal, though.)

And, I like your application of Tire Savers to the safety function. I have a stash of those things and I'll consider adding them if and when I do swap fenders.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 04/09/2018 12:55 AM, Surlyprof wrote:
> When I acquired my Hillborne, it had Honjo Hammered fenders.  I found
> them to be very sturdy and beautiful but the noise drove me batty.

What kind of noise was that?  Rattling from a loose installation, or the
sound of dirt and gravel hitting the inside of the fender?

> They didn't have enough clearance for my Smart Sam knobbies but looked
> sharp with Barlow Pass ELs.  I ended up giving them to Evan E. on the
> list.  He used them to beautify one of his classic bikes.  I replaced
> them with a pair of SKS plastics Riv sold.  Not as pretty but also not
> as loud on all the gravel trails I need to ride.
>
>

--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

[Ann L]

Patrick:

I had a set of Honjo fluted fenders.  Although they were extremely light weight and beautiful, I can personally attest they were neither quiet nor hearty.  The first time a pebble rattled through one of the fenders, it sounded like the derailleur was eating itself.  I ride my bikes hard in all types of weather.  After two years, the bolt holding the front fender to the frame attachment rotted through the thin aluminum.  From the type of riding you do as gleaned from your posts, Honjos probably are not a good choice for you.

Ann

 

[Chris Birkenmaier]

I have the hammered Honjos on my Cheviot. Don’t do much off-roading but the pieces of grit and small pebbles from the road ping all over the metal. Frankly I find it annoying

[John Hawrylak]

Tony, what size Berthoud fenders are you using?

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 7:09:37 PM UTC-4, Tony DeFilippo wrote:

[Philip Williamson]

Knobbies seem designed to shoot gravel through the fenders. I wouldn’t do it.
Slicks with Ron’s tire wiper idea has merit. That I may do.

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA

[Ron Mc]

I'm a stickler for noise, and only want to hear the whoosh of my tires - I get offended by noise from other people's bikes.  I love my Quiet Honjos.  

[Ron Mc]

a little more fender installation thought about Quiet.  

I just got off a beating 30-mi ride, and the only noise my International made was tire noise.  

Think about this.  Go ring your bike bell, then touch it anywhere.  It stops - you don't have to touch where it was hit.  

I've been told my use of leather washers in fender installation is excessive.  

But it works just like the finger on the bell.  You can dampen vibration anywhere - doesn't have to be where it begins - but it certainly helps to pad those places.  

[Lum Gim Fong]

My Honjos run nicely and quiet on the streets I ride on. I use leather washers, too. But you can hear the regular bike noises (tire swooshing/derailer shifting) get “honjo-ized” as they are amplified by the fenders and gives everything a metal fendery sound as the bike sounds are all resonated thru the fenders. A non-issue for me. But sone may not like it.

[Ron Mc]

mine make a dull thud if you tap on them - they definitely do not resonate anything

[Lum Gim Fong]

Mine are Honjo H50 Hammered Aluminum.

They have a tinny, brittle sound to them upon fingernail tapping, and also the bike noises sound bright and tinny resonating thru them, even with all the solid recommended connections and painstakingly in-built-stress-free mounting.

[Ron Mc]

and of course that is exactly the credit I give for mine having zero tinniness.  They've been shaped between two bikes, so they don't have any external pull on them anywhere - so non-stressed, if I release the set-screws on the stays, they don't move - 

the most solid mountings I can give them, vibration damping every place I can place it  

  

maybe the flutes in my fenders are the difference - you tap them even with a metal object, and they go whump

[Ron Mc]

but I do remember them pinging when I had them loose between bikes

[Lum Gim Fong]

Maybe the flutes act as stiffners in the fenders and make it more solid than the hammered ones.

[Ron Mc]

that may be the whole difference.  You would think that many hammered facets would provide stiffness, but maybe they just change the natural frequency (i.e., pitch).  

No offense to anyone, but I've never liked the look of hammered fenders - though they probably age more gracefully - mine show surface oxidation, burnishes, scratches, etc.

[Lum Gim Fong]

I love mine. Could definitely use a polishing. Definitely getting grayer and have some faint whitish patina. They look great when clean. But when dirty/unpolished they sometimes remind me of those metal trash cans that everyone had back in the ‘70’s.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 04/11/2018 12:33 AM, Lum Gim Fong wrote:

I love mine. Could definitely use a polishing. Definitely getting grayer and have some faint whitish patina. They look great when clean. But when dirty/unpolished they sometimes remind me of those metal trash cans that everyone had back in the ‘70’s.

I had that too.  Blue Magic fixes it.

[Ron Mc]

Also the "Magic" and "Miracle" polishing cloths, and easier to use than a paste (Pol, Simichrome, etc) 

On Wednesday, April 11, 2018 at 6:47:22 AM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote

I had that too.  Blue Magic fixes it.

...
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia 
USA

[Ron Mc]

also, the little bit of wax in Finish Line Bike Wash spray cleans and helps slow tarnish accumulation

[Mat Grewe]

I have smooth 60mm Honjos and do really like them, although I am conscience about the rumored fender collapse when I ride on trails, which isn't often enough to come up with a different system to ease said conscience.

However, every ride takes me through our grassy, leafy, occasionally stick littered lawn out in the country.  When dry leaves or grasses get picked up in the fender, I have a low rubber mud flap that scoop them up, I can definitely hear it scraping around.  Not being worried about a few leaves or dead grass collapsing the fenders, I ride on and fix it when I get to my door.

I have about 20mm of fender clearance and run slicks.  Rarely do I hear rocks shooting through, even when riding on wet or dry gravel roads.  Water sloshing around in my metal water bottle bugs me far more than the fenders do!

I have thought about doing some elegant form of combining this guy's fenders (Post #8 & 10) with chopped Honjos in places where I am not fearful of fenders collapsing (attached to a light tab on the rear rack and down to the chain stay; in front of the fork crown to just beyond the front rack), with heaps of clearance for knobbies and mud/snow.  But for the riding I do now I am happy with what I have.

Mat

On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 5:59:42 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:

I’m contemplating hammered Honjo Fenders on my Quickbeam for all the wet and slop, but, as my periodic fender posts attest, fender noise, heartiness for my trail riding, and challenges with knobbies make the entire equation iffy, which is why I’ve avoided the $132 expenditure trying everything else first.

Thoughts from folks riding Honjo fenders on rough stuff and/or with knobbies on how hearty and quiet and sturdy they are, especially in comparison to SKS plastic?

With abandon,
Patrick

www.CredoFamily.org
www.MindYourHeadCoop.org