Sam Standover Hieghts for 51 & 55

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RDS

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Sep 24, 2020, 9:07:08 AM9/24/20
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For those who own a 51 or 55 Sam, what is the standover height for each size?  List tire size used for this measurement and note if it is the max tire size.  In general, how much could the standover height change based on tire size?

aeroperf

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Sep 24, 2020, 10:10:20 AM9/24/20
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This should be a fun thread.

My 2015 Sam 55 Cm has a measured SOH of 830mm with 700x42 Conti SpeedRide tires, unloaded.
That is not the max tire.  It came from Riv with Conti TourRide 700x48 tires, and if I had not wanted fenders, I could have probably fit something even bigger.

It has a Rivendell listed SOH of 833mm.  Tire not listed, but max tire size listed at 700x44.
It has a Bikeinsights.com computed SOH of 833mm with 700x46 tires listed.

I also have a Riv geometry chart that includes a 56 cm Sam with SOH listed at 834mm for a max tire of 700x45.

Since I rotate my tires annually, and then reset my odometer over a measured course, I can tell you that two supposedly identical tires of the same brand/model can have a difference in height of 5.2mm (At least.  That’s just what I have had to reset the odometer for).  Figure that half of that could make its way into SOH.
And that is at a constant tire pressure of 70 psi.  When I went to 50 psi for ride quality, I had to reset the odometer again, though not by nearly as much.

So for my Sam, actual standover height is not just a function of frame geometry but also tire size, tire brand, tire pressure and random manufacturing tolerances.  I just use 830 mm.

Michael Mann

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Sep 24, 2020, 8:15:37 PM9/24/20
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And if you really want to go into
the finer points of SOH, remember you probably measured your PBH barefoot. Or maybe you were wearing socks? How many millimeters thick were the socks. Did you just eat because the additional weight would compress the socks. And you don’t ride barefoot. Which shoes? How many millimeters thick are the soles. How about the other shoes? And your PBH changes from waking to bedtime...
Splitting millimeters 
Mike M

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 24, 2020, at 4:56 PM, rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com wrote:


Joseph Bernard <joer...@gmail.com>: Sep 24 04:52PM -0700

I rode it, the verdict is in, it's a great bike! I can't give any specifics
of ride quality because it just feels like a Riv to me: stable yet turns on
a dime, kinds floaty and zingy. Honestly it feels like a slightly shorter
version of my custom, which makes sense because the built-for-me frame was
spec'd pretty close to the Bombadil's mission.
 
Even the riding position is nailed right off the bat, which I find
hilarious. I plopped the bars and stem I had in there and set the saddle
height and it's perfect!
 
Here's a couple of sunny pics so you can see the raw metal better. Check
out that gusset under the downtube, I don't think any other Riv came with
it.
 
Joe Bernard
 
Joseph Bernard <joer...@gmail.com>: Sep 24 04:55PM -0700

Mark Roland <absolut...@gmail.com>: Sep 24 04:38PM -0700

I got mine a couple orders back, along with a jumbo grabby. I've been
grabbing the grabby but just broke out the banana on a short ride earlier
this evening. Both were purchased when I think the only color was gray. I
was hesistant, partly because I really liked the brown of my old jumbo
grabby, which someone grabbed out of my car :( a while back, partly because
I was worried about dirt.
 
No worries, most of the dirt is on the light side anyway. I almost think I
may like the gray better than the brown. And the banana is great--as
Roberta says, a bit roomier than my XS Sackville (in brown). And the gray
with the brown leather trim is high zoot & goes with my dark blue & black &
chrome Fuji Finest. Now I just have to break it in a bit. Shouldn't be too
hard as with winter coming the bag with more room will get the call more
often than not.
 
[image: IMG_20200924_174557294.jpg]
 
[image: IMG_20200924_174547405.jpg]
 
[image: IMG_20200924_174523714_MP.jpg]
 
 
On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 12:58:39 PM UTC-4, Roberta wrote:
"Jim S." <ja...@simeri.me>: Sep 24 04:18PM -0700

$135 shipped.
 
Here's a description of the product:
 
https://builtbyswift.com/shop/paloma-handlebar-bag/
 
Here are photos:
 
https://photos.app.goo.gl/9cCpw2PXkrdjJmTv6
 
Condition is good to very good. It looks like these are $175 new, and the
Klickfix is $27 new.
 
The Klickfix is included in the $135 price. I characterize the Klickfix as
new because I have never mounted it on a bike or even taken it out of its
box. Concededly, the box is a bit worn.
Zack <zac...@gmail.com>: Sep 24 03:59PM -0700

Tires gone, panniers still available. $209 shipped?
 
On Wednesday, September 23, 2020 at 5:06:23 PM UTC-7 Zack wrote:
 
Joel <JRSt...@gmail.com>: Sep 24 10:36AM -0700

Cross posted on Bob.
 
I have the very old stands that Rivendell sold years ago, not very stable.
I’d like either 1 double or 2 single bike holders, floor style to keep my
bikes safe. Recommendations appreciated. I’ve seen a few on eBay and
Amazon but thought it wise to check here before buying.
 
Thanks
David <23wr...@gmail.com>: Sep 24 01:59PM -0400

Hi Joel
Are you talking a work stand or display stand. I have a couple of Nitto display stands that are quite nice but designed for 120 or 126 rear hubs so a bit of a wrestle to install. I also picked up a couple of Minoura stands that are newer so more readily fit modern bikes. More convenient but certainly a trade off on aesthetics.
 
David
 
Sent from my iPhone
 
Ed Carolipio <ed.car...@gmail.com>: Sep 24 11:15AM -0700

I have the Feedback Velo Cache configured to carry 4
bikes: https://www.feedbacksports.com/product/velo-cache-black/
 
Good points:
 
- Free standing so no need to attach to anything, and from my experience
very stable
- Lightweight
- Fit and finish are excellent
- Rubber "grips" are sturdy and protect the paint finish on the top tube
 
Downsides:
 
- Pricey
- (Potential) Unknown how well it'll work with double top tube Rivs
- Need a top tube frame adapter for swoopy top tube frames(Clem L,
Cheviot, Gus/Suzie)
 
 
--Ed C.

On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 10:59:50 AM UTC-7 David Hays wrote:
 
Joel Stern <jrst...@gmail.com>: Sep 24 02:19PM -0400

David, not a work stand, not yet anyway. I want the bikes to be secure in
my sunroom which is where I leave them during cycling season but the stands
I have now are not at all secure, either too loose or too tight, I can
adjust but they seem to not be good for either 42mm or 48mm tires. These
use the front tire.
 
Joel
 
Joel Stern <jrst...@gmail.com>: Sep 24 02:21PM -0400

Thanks Ed, I was thinking of something like this or a floor stand. I will
take a look in a bit. I appreciate your input.
 
Joel
 
James Valiensi <jpval...@gmail.com>: Sep 24 11:33AM -0700

Feedback sports has nice floor stands for storage. I use them.
 
The Snag <northcoa...@gmail.com>: Sep 24 01:25PM -0700

Somafab has some nice looking stands by Kogu that are currently on sale....
https://www.somafabshop.com/shop/category/tools-maintenance-racks-store-fixture-992
 
On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 11:33:21 AM UTC-7 James Valiensi wrote:
 
Joel Stern <jrst...@gmail.com>: Sep 24 04:40PM -0400

Thanks James, I’ll look.
 
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1C18DAE0-D948-4874-A270-1387EC41C774%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
 
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Dave Grossman <gma...@gmail.com>: Sep 24 10:21AM -0700

I will make a final appeal for a 62cm QB before I go and grab a BMC Monster
Cross canti. Matt is riding my old 58, which was way too small. I had what
I thought was 62cm last winter but that ended up being a 64cm and Reid
ended up with it after I bought it. Anyhow, if anyone has one they are
looking to move, let me know. Otherwise, I am close to giving up to
finding one of these until Riv reissues the single speed!
jamison brosseau <jamison....@gmail.com>: Sep 24 12:51PM -0700

email sent
 
On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 1:21:51 PM UTC-4 Dave Grossman wrote:
 
Nathan Mattia <nathan...@gmail.com>: Sep 24 12:17PM -0700

I just shoed Samwise with a pair of Rump-shakers this month, and I gotta
say, I dig em. They give off a lot more confidence in the corners on ANY
surface than did my Pari-Moto smooths (the ones a lot like the Loup Loup
Pass tires). I haven’t even tried running them with a lower psi yet, and
they’re still nice and cushy.
 
I see now that they are discontinued but my pop up every once in a while on
a site. Shame.
 
What are your impressions of your Fattys?
 
[image: CFB4CF61-75A5-45E8-BEDE-65EFDE7C17B4.jpeg]
Paul Brodek <pcb....@gmail.com>: Sep 24 11:04AM -0700

Thanks for linking it, Peter. If Trevor has it now, it went from Peter to
me to Trevor.
 
Peter asked me earlier offlist if the frame had been a little small for me,
and looking at my notes on the frame dims I said probably not. But now
looking at the built pix on flickr, yeah, definitely closer to "a little
too little" for me.
 
All I've managed with the new Starck Riv so far is a coupla round-the-block
sweeps, which it handled nicely. I detected slight notes of lemongrass,
with a subtle smoky finish.
 
Paul Brodek
Hillsdale, NJ USA
 
On Wednesday, September 23, 2020 at 1:57:12 PM UTC-4, Peter Bridge wrote:
Paul Brodek <pcb....@gmail.com>: Sep 24 11:11AM -0700

Actually, come to think of it, if it was mine there's always the
possibility there was an intermediary caretaker between me and Trevor.
 
I'm pretty sure the color was considered a Burnt Orange. Frame size was
58.5cm square c-c, def a bit lower than I like. There were some paint flaws
down near the seat tube bottle bosses that were sanded away, visible in the
naked frame photos.
 
I have nothing against simplicity, but I think I like the curlier head lugs
on the '95 Road better than the simpler lines on the Starck.
 
Paul Brodek
Hillsdale, NJ USA
 
On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 2:04:21 PM UTC-4, Paul Brodek wrote:
Ben Mihovk <bjmi...@gmail.com>: Sep 24 07:04AM -0700

Got shipping notification for my Atlantis yesterday! I'm beyond excited.
 
I'll post a pic when it gets here...I'd do a full list of components now,
but honestly I went with what Vince picked out and my only input was that I
didn't need a saddle, I wanted the front of the Choco bar taped up, and
that I wanted inboard thumb shifters.
 
Should be ready to pick up at UPS Customer Center on Tuesday after work.
Cooler weather coming to Omaha should make for a lovely commute next
Wednesday morning!
 
 
On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 8:58:59 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
 
dougP <doug...@gmail.com>: Sep 24 10:28AM -0700

Ben:
 
You've probably seen photos on this forum of the epic packing job that
Rivendell does. When I got my Atlantis, I was able to ride it within an
hour of delivery, and I think the saddle & the pedals were the only things
I had to install. Like you, I went with their suggestion on parts & some
of the originals are still on there. Ride it out of the box, then start
tinkering. I think it took me a couple of weeks to find something to fuss
with.
 
dougP
 
On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 7:04:01 AM UTC-7, Ben Mihovk wrote:
Ben Mihovk <bjmi...@gmail.com>: Sep 24 10:36AM -0700

Doug,
Yes, I've seen the pack job! I've watched the video of Mark assembling a
Homer maybe fifteen times now (love the video and the music).
 
Good advice on riding for a while before tinkering. I'll definitely go that
way.
 
Ben
 
On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 12:28:45 PM UTC-5 dougP wrote:
 
Jason Fuller <jtf.f...@gmail.com>: Sep 24 08:03AM -0700

My comfortable height for "upright" bars is level with, to maybe 1" above
my saddle height, so Loscos make sense to me :D
James Valiensi <jpval...@gmail.com>: Sep 24 07:26AM -0700

HI,
I have a set I’m not using. They work really good and are a nice alternative to long reach calipers. These are a F&R set for recessed mounting.
 
https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/components/brakes/center-pull-brakes/racer-medium/ <https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/components/brakes/center-pull-brakes/racer-medium/>
 
$185 for the pair. This includes USPS Priority shipping. Payment via Paypal only. Friends and Family is nice-
aeroperf <dore...@comcast.net>: Sep 24 07:10AM -0700
Pat Smith <pbsm...@gmail.com>: Sep 24 06:51AM -0700

Hey Corwin I sent payment on the Nitto stems not realizing they were 26.0
clamp. I'd like to actually pass on these if it's not too late.
 
Thanks
Pat
 
On Wednesday, September 23, 2020 at 5:35:14 PM UTC-4 Joel wrote:
 
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Jason Fuller

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Sep 24, 2020, 10:45:19 PM9/24/20
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I have an 80.5 pbh roughly (30" inseam pants fit me well) and I can stand over my 51 Sam with comfortable clearance, but no more than necessary. 




aeroperf

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Sep 25, 2020, 2:02:40 PM9/25/20
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velomann -
Right.  And did I level the bike when I measured it, or just do it in the garage?  With a friend holding it, or leaning on its kickstand?
So many decimal points, so little actual information.  One of the reasons I said it should be a fun thread.

The other is that Sams seem to have various published numbers depending on the batch, or worse, the same number when they should be different.  The latest Riv geometry charts don’t list SOH for the Sams at all.

But it’s a good question.  If you’re going to drop $1500 - $3000 on a bicycle bought via a phone call, how do you go for the best fit?  
You can fudge the “effective” stack by moving the stem up or down, and the “effective” reach by getting a longer stem or different bars, but the SOH is pretty well fixed.  Even tires are a secondary effect.

Jason has the most helpful response.  His 51 Sam has a good SOH for an 80.5 PBH (30” inseam).

For me, my 55 Sam SOH is just a little tall for an 83 PBH (31” inseam).  But it is a lot more comfortable overall than a 51 Sam.
In my case I’m right on the SOH size cusp, and the Riv folks did a good job choosing the bigger bike for me.

Anybody know where we can find the information for the new Sams?

Jason Fuller

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Sep 25, 2020, 2:35:13 PM9/25/20
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I forgot to add, I swap between 42mm and 48mm tires on my Sam and I don't notice the difference in standover - I think that is splitting hairs over what's arguably the least important of the fit numbers. I would be surprised if the newest batch of Sams doesn't grow a few mm in the top tube lengths; the previous batches are quite squarely between drop bar and upright bar fit, which I love because I can now run drops with a 5-6 cm stem or albatross with a 11-12cm stem.  I get the sense though that the Sam is not being considered a drop bar bike as much anymore by Riv, though I'm just postulating. 




Ash

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Sep 26, 2020, 6:53:39 PM9/26/20
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If anybody runs into this discussion thread and would be interested in top tube lengths on the new Sams,  size 48cm frame has 53cm TT and size 51cm frame has 55cm top tube. These are official numbers.

Jason Fuller

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Sep 26, 2020, 10:28:15 PM9/26/20
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Oh interesting!  The 51 Sam actually shortened by 15mm then, that surprises me.  

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Joel

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Sep 27, 2020, 12:02:10 AM9/27/20
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Where did you see those figures?  Thanks 

Ash

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Sep 27, 2020, 11:31:16 AM9/27/20
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Riv staff.

Joel Stern

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Sep 27, 2020, 1:40:45 PM9/27/20
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Funny, I was told the 51cm had no changes.  We will soon find out.  

RichS

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Sep 28, 2020, 11:19:34 AM9/28/20
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Hi Joel:

Changes also include:
1. Socketed seat stays
2. I'm pretty sure another centimeter has been added to the chain stays

Interesting that the new small Sams have the 48cm seat tube that was used on the first edition of Sams.

Best,
Rich in ATL

Joel

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Sep 28, 2020, 11:33:21 AM9/28/20
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Rich, I found a leftover 2019 Sam in 51cm, being built up as we speak.  I knew this one would fit me well as all of the specs were available and the help you gave me with measurements.  I also did not want to wait till October as I want to ride this bike this year as much as I can before the weather turns.  It should be ready for me tomorrow, had to iron a freewheel kink out.  

I am not sure what socket seat stays are.  I was told the 51cm had no changes in chain stay length but we will find out very soon.  
Joel

R Shannon

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Sep 28, 2020, 12:13:07 PM9/28/20
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Joel,

Attached photos show the seat stay cap (Seat Stay 1) used on pre-2020 Sams and the current socket style as used on Clems, Homers, Roadinis and now Sams.
Glad you found a Sam in your size. Hope you like it as much as many of us on the list like the ones we ride.

Best,
Rich in ATL


To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c5e70ff2-f9cc-47dc-83b5-01f098affc2en%40googlegroups.com.
Seat stay1.jpg
Socket version.jpg

Joel

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Sep 28, 2020, 2:39:42 PM9/28/20
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I like the3 older better at least my eyes do.
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