26.8 seatposts with generous setback

[st nick]

I was recently talking with a friend here in the area also looking for a 26.8 set post with more set back for his Roadini.

He decided to have Rivbike order the IRC one for him some have had issues with because he heard a Rivendell employee recently had tried one and had no issues because IRC had resolved the issue with a thicker serrated washer.

He said he would report back after trying it.

Personally I would consult with an experienced frame builder about reaming out a seat tube especially with an expensive frame and have an expert builder donut if I went that route.

I might've tempted to try it on a $50 Craiglist bike but not a nice bike I loved.

Safe riding to all.

Paul in Dallas 

[Craig Montgomery]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/256074774748?hash=item3b9f3ef8dc:g:RhEAAOSws0hkX-AT&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4DfCiOEnjCvHhEU4bvqRDReTJ0m362omPlZff140MwozY6egewAqxLbY%2FCM6cb3VeqAQUy1E3FHBSP66Cwkpj3b70sLwAY1HVQ3i6pKXBI27s7mFCpliMiV1OQUJraR1uxiGX6UxJlKwM3peUVy7UNEYMQVYZdITGOb6NM5jP2aBScDUF57hz0dfJwKshD70UPj2azpERnKdgTN%2BBLL%2FRdn9mYJSfK%2B8UiFINCeK4R5LchB6MLQUqE2pNuQdmCFoKuT%2BztFW3jVjct%2BHBt9Xv0uS9OQ10PPShHnPCl3UihQU%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR6LVwq2HYg

Another option

Craig in Tucson

[Johnny Alien]

Wow! If someone needs that much setback I would think they have the wrong sized frame.

[Eric Marth]

Just to point any new readers to the longer discussion of long setback 26.8 posts and other workarounds we had recently: 

https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/7w-LvB64bdo/m/6_3-7tnZCQAJ

Paul: Let us know how your friend likes that seatpost. I could never get mine to bite. And I believe it's IRD, rather than IRC, for Interloc Racing Design. 

I'm still tempted by reaming for a 27.2 though I'm getting more used to the bike. 

Johnny: Every body is different and Grant/Rivendell developed the Nitto S84 for people who like lots of setback. I run the MTE-100 on my Appaloosa. It has more setback than I need but, as we discussed in the other thread, finding a 26.8 post with lots of setback is quite difficult 

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Guys! Guys! Guys!

https://www.rivbike.com/products/seat-post-ird-wayback?_pos=4&_psq=ird&_ss=e&_v=1.0&mc_cid=7e477e2831&mc_eid=cad714b71d

They fixed this rotten seat post and made it good! I just ordered one because it is the ONLY thing I would change about my Platypus.

Leah

[st nick]

I heard back from my friend  Jim who received and mounted the revised IRC seatpost.

Here's what he said:

Paul in Dallas 

"Received it 2 days ago. Long ride yesterday and it is a game changer! No slippage….my Roadini is now dialed in. Can’t wait to ride it again."

[Leah Peterson]

Well, that’s hopeful!

I got mine today, too. I have it installed and I slammed it as far as it will go and it will just barely work for me. I sized up in my Platypus frame so I have very little seatpost showing. This seat post cannot be slammed all the way because it widens at the top. But I think this will work and be a good thing. I dread moving my saddle around and tipping it this way or that. But I hope to get it perfect in the next few days and then I’ll give it a review.

L

On Jun 2, 2023, at 11:37 PM, st nick <trueg...@att.net> wrote:

I heard back from my friend  Jim who received and mounted the revised IRC seatpost.

Here's what he said:

Paul in Dallas 

"Received it 2 days ago. Long ride yesterday and it is a game changer! No slippage….my Roadini is now dialed in. Can’t wait to ride it again."

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[maxcr]

I’m still trying to dial in my Gallop (maybe I won’t sell it after all) and I wanted to try the IRD wayback seatpost but the 26.8 in silver is sold out at Riv, does anyone know if the one Somafab sells the same? ie the “fixed” version?

The other question I had which is related to the setback issue above is that my best fitting bike is my 58 hunqapillar, which has a 72 seat tube angle. I use a 80.5 saddle height and have a similar setup on the Gallop, however there I feel that I’m too far forward. Now, the Gallop has a 71.5 seat tube angle; shouldn’t that give me more distance, not less? By distance I mean the horizontal distance from the saddle to the bottom bracket, which ultimately will determine my leg position as I pedal.

Thanks

Max

[Garth]

It's the same post Max, there's only the one IRD Wayback post. Riv would get their supply from Merry Sales, the parent company/wholesaler of IRD and Soma. They have frequent weekend discounts and at this time IRD is included in the brands of the sale. The code and brands included are on the home page. Their payment options are limited to just two cards, fwiw. 

https://www.somafabshop.com/shop/ird-seatpost-wayback-2418?category=987#attr=539,4002,3304

[Kim Hetzel]

Johnny,

I have a 27.2mm Sakae Ringyo MTE-100 with a shim on my Clem Smith Jr. "L" bicycle for reasons that I blame on my long torso and short limbs. I do not own a Brooks saddle on this bike. Brooks saddle are known to have more setback.

Kim Hetzel

Yelm, WA.

[Brian Turner]

My experience with Brooks leather saddles is they have rather short rails which limit you in your setback. Cambiums have a bit more rail length, and so do Berthoud saddles. I don’t really have any other saddle experience outside of the three I just mentioned. I’m almost completely switched over to Berthoud on all my bikes, with the exception of a few well-loved B17 specials.

On Jun 18, 2023, at 7:50 AM, Kim Hetzel <krhe...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Kim Hetzel]

Leah,

I am unable to the IRD "Wayback" seat post in my Clem Smith Jr. "L" bicycle, because the construction of the post widens too much at the top of the post underneath the length of the adjustment rail, unlike the SR MTE-100 seat post. I bought an IRD "Wayback" seat post off of Craigslist last year for a good price, only to find that it did not work for my needs. I sold it to a friend of mine.

Kim Hetzel

Yelm, WA.

[Leah Peterson]

Guys, here’s an interesting thing. 

I am still getting used to my new IRD seat post and figuring out where I want it. (I’ve been traveling, and I’ve been using my other bikes for things so the Racing Platypus hasn’t gotten all the usual miles.) Tonight, I moved the saddle to 40mm, so let’s see if that’s the sweet spot.

But that’s not interesting. What IS interesting is that the bolt on the seat post must not be magnetic. I have Hexlox, a funny little thief-blocker that stops anyone from taking a hex key to my saddle or seat post. But the Hexlox keeps falling out and luckily, sticking to my frame, where I find it later. 

So, I will have to see if there is an identical bolt except magnetic, lest my ivory Rivet be at risk.

Leah

On Jun 18, 2023, at 8:00 AM, Kim Hetzel <krhe...@gmail.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/063f6333-c20c-4309-bd85-47e5627f8b68n%40googlegroups.com.

<Terry Cite X Gel Saddle after modifications to SR MTE-100 seat post - March 8, 2023.jpg>

[lconley]

The bolt is probably 304 stainless-steel, which is an austenitic stainless-steel and not magnetic. Ace hardware stores usually have a good selection of metric hardware. Note that they do not have 7mm threaded bolts (thread size, not Allen key size) which is what two bolt Nittos usually use, not sure what size the IRD has. Probably bigger than a seven because it is a single bolt.

I am thinking about getting one of the IRD seatposts for my Rosco Bubbe V1, I haven't ream the seat tube yet.. Rivendell is out of stock on the silver 26.8, but Soma has them and has IRD stuff 30% off today.. Certainly less expensive than a lugged Nitto.

Laing

[Leah Peterson]

Laing, the hex key size is 6, so that means I need a 7 mm bolt, then? And did I read correctly that hardware stores don’t carry the 7? Why???

The post is certainly not perfect. I wish I could slam it, but I can’t because it widens at the top. It will just barely work for me, and as I get older over the coming decades I wonder if I will need to decrease the height. Then there’s the bolt. Then there’s the worry that the seat post will slip - I haven’t ridden it enough to say for sure that the company fixed the defect.

But, hey, for 30% off you might want to try it!

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 19, 2023, at 8:50 AM, lconley <lco...@brph.com> wrote:

The bolt is probably 304 stainless-steel, which is an austenitic stainless-steel and not magnetic. Ace hardware stores usually have a good selection of metric hardware. Note that they do not have 7mm threaded bolts (thread size, not Allen key size) which is what two bolt Nittos usually use, not sure what size the IRD has. Probably bigger than a seven because it is a single bolt.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d18a74ab-fb96-41ee-a53a-6d17f1907689n%40googlegroups.com.

[lconley]

The hex size and bolt size are not necessarily related. I would say that it is more likely to be an 8 than a 7. You need to take the your bolt in and have it matched for thread diameter, thread pitch (the number of threads for a specified length), and threaded length, but in a magnetic material - you should take the Hexlox as well. The only 7 mm bolts that I have ever seen are the Nitto seatpost bolts - it is a rarely used size, which is why hardware stores don't carry them.

Laing

[maxcr]

Thanks for the tip Garth, unfortunately I went to place the order that day and after almost a week, I got notified that they're out of stock for a couple of months... I guess I'll need to wait because everyone seems to be out of stock.

On a separate note, does anyone have any thoughts on my question above regarding 71.5 vs 72 seat tube angles? Assuming the same saddle height, shouldn't the 71.5 put me further away (horizontally)  from the BB? I'm just wondering if I need to bring my saddle forward instead of backwards!

Thanks again

Max who is keeping his Gallop and tinkering with it some more - I'm swapping the bar mounted shifters to barends to gain more space on my handlebar

[lconley]

With a 80.5 cm long saddle height, a 71.5 deg ST angle will put the top of the saddle inline with the seat tube 0.67 cm (0.26") behind the center of the top of a 72 deg ST angle seat tube. And 0.22 cm (0.09") lower.

Laing

[Johnny Alien]

Max, I will note this about the Gallop. I thought my saddle needed to go back but I tried moving it forward and it was immensely better. I think the feeling of needing to go further back is common.

[maxcr]

Thanks Laing and Johnny, this confirms my hunch that perhaps moving the saddle forward and using a longer stem might be the answer for me. I'll try that and report back.

Max

[Garth]

I have a hunch that many people considering a very long setback post are more likely desiring more forward reach, for which changing the stem properly accomplishes. Moving your saddle further back than your optimal position over the bottom bracket for the sake of more forward reach is "going the wrong direction" !  Rivendell isn't alone as far as bike vendors in either downplaying or outright disregarding the importance and efficacy of proper stem length.

[Kim Hetzel]

Garth, 

My need for lots of setback on my Sakae Ringyo MTE 100 seat post is my blame it on my long torso. I have this seat post on several bikes of mine. It works very well for me.

Kim Hetzel

Yelm, WA.

On Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 12:01 PM Garth <gart...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a hunch that many people considering a very long setback post are more likely desiring more forward reach, for which changing the stem properly accomplishes. Moving your saddle further back than your optimal position over the bottom bracket for the sake of more forward reach is "going the wrong direction" !  Rivendell isn't alone as far as bike vendors in either downplaying or outright disregarding the importance and efficacy of proper stem length.

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[Kim Hetzel]

Garth, 

I'm currently riding a Clem Smith Jr L bicycle with a Nitto Techomic stem. I don't feel the need to have or replace it with a shorter stem. I'm very comfortable in my cockpit.

Kim Hetzel

Yelm, WA.

On Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 12:01 PM Garth <gart...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a hunch that many people considering a very long setback post are more likely desiring more forward reach, for which changing the stem properly accomplishes. Moving your saddle further back than your optimal position over the bottom bracket for the sake of more forward reach is "going the wrong direction" !  Rivendell isn't alone as far as bike vendors in either downplaying or outright disregarding the importance and efficacy of proper stem length.

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[Garth]

Kim, What you describe is exactly my point, that more forward reach/length within a given frame is accomplished with a longer stem(and/or bar choice), not a more setback post. That's why there are so many stem lengths available(from very short to very long), and so little seatpost setback variation. Hence I said using the post alone for more forward frame reach is akin to "going the wrong direction" , given the rider is riding in their sweet spot over the bottom bracket for their given crank length. 

A rider with longer relative torso calls for frame that is designed for it, as in a longer top tube(frame reach) plus an appropriately reach to the bars(stem plus bar). (The 2021 Clem version you have should qualify as having an atypically long frame reach). Typically the mega setback posts were a cheap aftermarket compensation for mountain bike frames back in the 80's that often came with a 73d STA(or steeper) which equates to the saddle being appx. 13mm closer to the BB compared to a 72d STA. Believe it or not there were are still are some saddles that have even shorter rails than a Brooks which only adds to the mayhem. 

Just like fitting clothes, someone that has a longer torso needs appropriately long shirts and/or pants with sufficient rise for their given proportions. One has to ask though, in what way is the torso long-er ? Is it from a longer spine, a taller pelvis, both or other ? You wouldn't just buy mega high rise pants to make up for a relatively longer spine if your pelvis is of "normal" relation, you'd stick with appropriate rise pants and longer bodied shirts. With a bike whether the longer torso length is from a taller pelvis height or longer spine the pelvic floor to pedal relation over BB remains the same, hence it doesn't need altered. What's called for is more forward room. The longer torso length is appropriately fitted with a lengthened reach to the bar/stem combo. 

[Jay Lonner]

Bike fit remains a mystery to me. I’ve read (and re-read) various articles like “The Myth of KOPS” and the sizing and fit advice on PJW’s website, and still find myself resorting to trial and error. Of course there are various proprietary fit systems, which people are happy to charge you for, but even those seem geared toward more racer-y types, and not the Riv-ish style of setting handlebars at or above the level of the saddle.

Proper fit recently has come into renewed focus for me, as I sustained an ulnar nerve injury to my left hand while riding the Oregon Outback last month. Presumably a more dialed-in fit might have prevented this from occurring. Kim makes the point that his cockpit is comfortable, but I understand Garth to be saying that he may be even more comfortable with a more systematic approach to fit. I’m coming around to Garth’s point of view that long-torsoed folks like myself might do better to focus on stem extension rather than maximizing saddle setback, with the goal of having enough reach so that the core is more engaged and less pressure is placed on the hands.

Jay Lonner

Bellingham, WA

Sent from my Atari 400

On Jun 23, 2023, at 4:57 AM, Garth <gart...@gmail.com> wrote:

Kim, What you describe is exactly my point, that more forward reach/length within a given frame is accomplished with a longer stem(and/or bar choice), not a more setback post. That's why there are so many stem lengths available(from very short to very long), and so little seatpost setback variation. Hence I said using the post alone for more forward frame reach is akin to "going the wrong direction" , given the rider is riding in their sweet spot over the bottom bracket for their given crank length. 

A rider with longer relative torso calls for frame that is designed for it, as in a longer top tube(frame reach) plus an appropriately reach to the bars(stem plus bar). (The 2021 Clem version you have should qualify as having an atypically long frame reach). Typically the mega setback posts were a cheap aftermarket compensation for mountain bike frames back in the 80's that often came with a 73d STA(or steeper) which equates to the saddle being appx. 13mm closer to the BB compared to a 72d STA. Believe it or not there were are still are some saddles that have even shorter rails than a Brooks which only adds to the mayhem. 

Just like fitting clothes, someone that has a longer torso needs appropriately long shirts and/or pants with sufficient rise for their given proportions. One has to ask though, in what way is the torso long-er ? Is it from a longer spine, a taller pelvis, both or other ? You wouldn't just buy mega high rise pants to make up for a relatively longer spine if your pelvis is of "normal" relation, you'd stick with appropriate rise pants and longer bodied shirts. With a bike whether the longer torso length is from a taller pelvis height or longer spine the pelvic floor to pedal relation over BB remains the same, hence it doesn't need altered. What's called for is more forward room. The longer torso length is appropriately fitted with a lengthened reach to the bar/stem combo. 

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[Johnny Alien]

All I can say is that I also felt like I needed to be back more but when I finally did the opposite and moved it forward (adjusting the cockpit) it was a night and day difference. I thought I had been pretty comfortable prior but apparently there was a better way. When I see someone wanting something with massive setback like that I think that there is something else off.

[Richard Rose]

Perhaps another bit of information to muddy the waters is the Analog Cycles perspective that straight (no setback) seatposts make no sense, except for frames (like theirs) that have relatively slack seat tubes. Like our Riv’s.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 23, 2023, at 1:41 PM, Johnny Alien <johnny....@gmail.com> wrote:

All I can say is that I also felt like I needed to be back more but when I finally did the opposite and moved it forward (adjusting the cockpit) it was a night and day difference. I thought I had been pretty comfortable prior but apparently there was a better way. When I see someone wanting something with massive setback like that I think that there is something else off.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/96ab3aaa-e9df-47da-b0f8-65bd7389d595n%40googlegroups.com.

[Patrick Moore]

+ another for Garth's point (and many others make it too, including PJW in his very good article on bike fitting) that you first set up your saddle in relation to the cranks in order to get both good "balance" (with sufficient setback that your torso muscles support the torso's weight, and so that this support is not left to hands and arms and shoulders), and good power or torque on the pedals (too far forward and you lose power, IME -- Grant cured me of an all-the-way forward saddle, long story, by saying, "move your saddle back and down").

And of course all rules are merely starting points.

No setback seatposts make sense on a bike like this; you even see seatposts with forward "setback" or perhaps "set-forward," but look at those seat tube angles!

[lconley]

Then there are also those with really, really long torsos, that need a long stem and lots of setback on the seatpost; or a custom frame.

Also remember that a Brooks saddle sometimes needs a longer setback seatpost to put you in the same location relative to the pedals as another type of saddle on a normal seatpost; no longer stem will help that.

Laing 

[Leah Peterson]

I think there is merit to getting a longer stem to alleviate the feeling of needing more space in the bar area. I would have gladly tried this over the ugly IRD seat post, but I have the extra tall Nitto stem that maxes out at 10 cm, which I have. I wish they made a 12, but alas. So, the seat post is what I got and it seems to be working - there were kinks to work out. That post, where it clamps onto my Rivet saddle, made the most annoying sets of clicks. It sounded like the drivetrain, which is beyond my scope of practice, so I hauled it in. Totally stumped the bike shop, too, and then they finally found the issue. They lubed or greased or something and now it’s silent, just like I like it.

On Jun 24, 2023, at 3:49 PM, lconley <lco...@brph.com> wrote:

Then there are also those with really, really long torsos, that need a long stem and lots of setback on the seatpost; or a custom frame.

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[Kim Hetzel]

Very well said, Laing. I absolutely agree with you.

Kim Hetzel

Yelm, WA 

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[Garth]

I don't agree at all that someone with a long torso and average length of legs should use a longer setback seatpost to accommodate it. Just picture yourself on a bike, and suddenly your spine is elongated 6 inches. Your legs haven't changed at all and neither should your saddle position. What's called for is a longer frame with an appropriately long stem and bars that aren't overly swept back as that rather defeats the goal of accommodating your longer torso. While Kim says "I'm comfortable", sure the reach is now great, but you're also notably further back of the saddle than you need to be. From the photos of your Clem you showed the stem isn't very long for someone with a long torso, and Bosco bars aren't helping either.  If you simply added in stem length the appx. amount of extra setback from the post(2-3cm), then you could return to a normal setback post and you keep the same reach.

From my experience in being too far back as opposed to being in a normal setback position, is the onset of hamstring, back of knee and butt muscle pain. Not to mention feeling off center of the BB. Once I returned to a normal position, using my quads much more and my core muscles for support, all those went away and pedaling is notably more effective. What Jay described in adding his reach forward and using his core more effectively to accommodate his longer torso I can relate to.

In my opinion sitting up and back on a bike is all wrong as you can't use your core muscles effectively. I get that people do it, and Riv promotes it, nevertheless, that's what I think of it.

Anyone would be right to question what I speak of. I question everyone and myself too. Just because I don't have a bike shop or a title doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about tough, or that anyone who has a bike shop or a title does know what they're talking about. I've been to one "professional" fitter in my life, and their "advice" would have placed me on a frame with a much too short of top tube. I told them to add 3cm or no deal on the custom frame from them. I got the 3cm and I still joyfully ride that frame today.

Enjoy the ride.

[Kim Hetzel]

Additional information to be added to my long torso, I have short limbs.

Kim Hetzel

Yelm, WA.

[Patrick Moore]

I've urged this before and I urge it again: Peter Jon White's basic bike fitting primer is an excellent starting point because it sets out the basic principles of good bike fit in reference to comfort and power, the basic goals of good bike fit.

I have a long torso and short limbs -- Asian build on Anglo scale. Long, long ago I read about KOPS in Bicycling and said to myself, "That is what I want." But in addition to having short femurs I have a personal predilection for full leg extension at the bottom of the pedal stroke. This is not a value judgement, just a preference.

I had a lovely 531C 1989 Falcon with very short front center (hard to get finger between front tire and tt) and longish (original Riv-length 42.5 to middle of horizontal dropouts) chainstays. Sure, 57 c-c was probably after all a bit short for me, but because of KOPS I went out and replaced the road seatpost with a long Logic mtb post and installed the Flite all the way forward in the cradle; it would slip forward, not backward until I used blue Loctite. To get sufficient reach to bar I used a 140 mm Cinelli 1A (6" below saddle). All this for KOPS.

What a can of worms. Fast downhills sweepers, especially with gusty sidewinds were terrifying. I'd skip the rear wheel when standing and mildly honking up hills in a 65" gear.

I set up my 1992 XO-1 and various other bikes in the same way, then later complained to Grant that I felt that I was "losing the pedal stroke" over top dead center. He counseled shoving the saddle back and raising it while raising and shortening the stem. Pedaling Nirvana; comfort as well as power, not to mention handling back to normal.

Bike fit principles: get your saddle in place as to height and fore/aft position first. This is crucial both for pedaling torque and for comfort, since "balancing" your torso with respect to the bb means that your torso muscles hold up the torso and you don't rely on your shoulders, arms, and hands.

Then choose your bar. Then choose a stem that puts the bar in a place that gives you a torso bend that lets you pedal comfortably and powerfully.

It's simple, really, and it works; PJW and Grant basically agree on fundamentals.

[Patrick Moore]

Shee-IT. I meant to say: He counseled shoving the saddle back and lowering it while raising and shortening the stem.

On Sun, Jun 25, 2023 at 6:09 PM Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

... I ... complained to Grant that I felt that I was "losing the pedal stroke" over top dead center. He counseled shoving the saddle back and raising it while raising and shortening the stem. Pedaling Nirvana; comfort as well as power, not to mention handling back to normal

[maxcr]

I've followed this thread closely and I also re-read Peter White's fit guide. I still feel like bike fitting is dark magic, but here are some interesting findings.

Following Garth's comment: "Moving your saddle further back than your optimal position over the bottom bracket for the sake of more forward reach is "going the wrong direction" !"  I decided to take the time to measure and compare my bikes's touch points. Garth, I think you nailed it! 

I normally just "shove my brooks all the way back" which is the standard advise I got. Yesterday, I found that the horizontal distance between my saddle and the pedals was a whopping 2" longer on my Gallop than on my Hunqapillar. I then pushed my saddle forward as far as I could go which got me very close to the horizontal distance between saddle and pedal that I wanted.

I went for a quick ride - the Gallop is in the middle of a cockpit swap and I didn't have a shifter cable long enough, so it wasn't a full test ride - but I felt much more comfortable. I'll report more in the next few days, but I think the old advise to "shove my brooks all the way back" might not apply to the newer slacker, Riv geometries.

Max

[Garth]

I'd guess it's working out for Max since he hasn't posted an update, that's usually how it goes when all is well !  

I can't say bike fitting is mysterious, I'd call it intuitive. While others can help steer you in the right direction, the fine tuning is all an "inside job", so to speak. Just as no one can eat or breathe for another, the Life that Lives In and As ALL isn't up for "negotiation". It MUST BE ! 

Since I've been re-familiarizing myself with riding in road position with DT shifters and new saddle, I've moved mine forward some 15mm+ from when I started with it. It just keeps feeling better, as in more efficient/effective use of what strengths I have. Yesterday I unexpectedly found myself riding up a knarly hill that has some really steep sections. I had not ridden it in a long time and surely had my doubts as to doing it. It took a while to get in the groove and took to standing on the initial very steepest parts, but soon found myself seated and going up just fine in the 36/32 high gear. I used to have to stand the whole way. I could feel how much more effective it is to be able to use the quad/front muscles more by sitting more forward. When I was too far back I'd have to either stand or go to a lower granny gear and felt weak. My road bike doesn't have a lower gear and thankfully so. I didn't need a lower gear to compensate for my self-made mistake, I simply had to express my inherent strengths most effectively and efficiently, upon which it often feels effortless. Rather neat in that way ! I'm riding 150mm cranks and somewhat mid-foot pedaling, all of which just works well for me.  

[maxcr]

Things are working for me without swapping seatposts and simply by pushing my saddle forward instead of backwards.

If anyone is still looking, the IRD posts seem to be back at Somafab: https://www.somafabshop.com/shop/ird-seatpost-wayback-compact-6972?search=compact#attr=346,4463,1073

Max

[Garth]

Very Good Max !

I got the Soma email that showed the seatpost and noticed it looked different, as it was. It's been redesigned with a new forged head and now is 30mm setback rather than the 50mm.

Just so anyone ordering the post understand IRD doesn't make the previous version anymore. Read the fine print !

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Does anyone know if you can get the seatpost lower with the new design? My IRD post from Riv needs 5 inches and I’ve got it totally slammed. It would be nice to know I had a post I could put a little lower. Also, the product page shows lengths of 250-350mm and the way I read it, it is measuring the shaft of the seat post, not the setback? How would one know which length to choose?

Leah

[Kim H.]

Leah,

I do not know an answer for your question. I did own an older version of the IRD Wayback seat post only to discover that I could not get the seat post down far enough to my liking on my Clem. I sold the post.

My next move was to find and buy a Sakae Ringyo MTE-100 27.2mm post with a shim to fit my 29.8mm seat tube.  I have had these posts on other bikes of mine in the past. I did find one on eBay late last year and bought it. It solved a number of problems for me. One was the amount of setback I wanted and secondly, I could set the post down a lot farther than I could than with the IRD Wayback post.  I remain very happy and pleased to this day with my long torso and short limbs.

May I suggest that you buy a Sakae Ringyo MTE-100 seat post off of eBay with a shim. I do not know how much setback you need. I know it may not be the most pretty post, but it solves some problems that I had.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/266342844000?hash=item3e03454660:g:frAAAOSwo81kmkUz&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8FLf%2FUeKjieKezFbVz6E9gAvKDh5HcoG4VtgU1iFW1NWJlrtlB8aYsomq%2FYB8kFjNEmIJZ7CJ4nQahP8fzyDoHavsHhcO2LwqhfxAJrSBKgR80ofpTP54ZjWbfYdRid7uciTYf4BOhd244iPZbPLcmdTzQLGOxptIGt7rApnbIY5yUiDBghaCQRn1Ci%2F0mS173o4kIWrxOtpCHwQVWuR1AHrztBe%2BTDTMlniIK77f%2FrUYuDI4NyxDtm5MoiCPm82jMCnAbU9ZVjHHw61%2BbP14LSz8ZqMh5wTXORNvUi%2BSjvE3Z%2BU3TK7ppru64Sb9n%2Fz%2Bg%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8b_7YOyYg

Trying to help.

I put a piece of white tape on the upper part of the post to mark as a stopping point of insertion as shown in the picture.

Kim Hetzel

Yelm, WA.

[Ray Varella]

Leah,

   Would cutting a couple inches off your seatpost solve your problem?

A 350mm long seatpost is pretty long and likely intended for frames with very extreme slope to the top tube

Standard Rivendell issue seatposts measure 250 mm from the seat clamp to the end of the shaft. 

350mm would add approximately 4 inches to the length. 

Does that help clarify your question?

Ray
 

[Kim H.]

There is a small screw on the back side of the upper part of the IRD seat post that inhibits the post from being pushed down any further into the seat tube is what maybe Leah is talking about.

Kim Hetzel

Yelm, WA.

[Garth]

Leah, Why is it you believe you need more setback in the first place ?  Compared to the Betty you had with it's 72 degree seat tube angle, the Clems are a more shallow 71.5, which equates to the same saddle and post capable of setting further back by about 6.5mm.  As I've already expressed, if it's forward reach you want going backwards is going in the wrong direction. A longer stem and/or less swept back bars are called for. It seems most riders here asking for more setback ride wayback swept bars. Well that's the issue, that they are too far back, not the setback of the saddle. Get the saddle in an optimal place first, then deal with the reach.

From my experience, being too far back of the pedals and too upright doesn't allow for the most efficient use of leg/core strength. It becomes rather a viscious and futile cycle of trying to compensate for something that can't be compensated for. Been there and done it, in all futility. With the saddle in an optimal position and a forward lean, all of that simply isn't. 

A sure sign of being too far back in the saddle is when climbing. If I'm too far back, I either HAVE to stand to maintain any sort of momentum, or sit and grind in futility where no low gear seems low enough because I'm too far back. Maintaining a fluid spin is impossible. Standing does what ? Places me over the BB, in the optimal "power band". Gee, maybe I ought to been seated further forward to begin with ! ((( laughing )))  In moving saddle forward to an optimal place, hark ..... I find myself able to effectively and efficiently stay seated on climbs, always "on top" of the pedals, even if really steep, and it's marvelous !

[Johnny Alien]

I totally agree. Most people on RIv's are already on a large frame size for them (based on Riv's sizing standards) so it seems that going further back on a large frame with a slack geometry would be the opposite of what would be needed. That's why Analog started selling zero setback seatposts. If you need to slam a seatpost or bury it pretty far then it seems odd to also need to go back.

[Leah Peterson]

I wish, Ray! It’s the way the post thickens at the top; you can’t force it any lower.

On Jul 26, 2023, at 12:15 AM, Ray Varella <rayvar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Leah,

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[Leah Peterson]

Hi Garth,

This is for my Platy. The bars are good and everything fits so well, but I just feel like sitting back a little bit. The tall Nitto stem I have is the longest stem they make, so I can’t fix that. The regular Nittos don’t allow for as high of a bar, and I love where my bars sit. I don’t want to cut off the Billie Bar ends, but I suppose I could if I had to. So, that led me to the seat post. The way I’ve got it is now perfect, but if I “shrink” as I age, I will want to bring the saddle a bit lower to the ground, and I can’t. The Riv IRD post has a thickening up at the clamp that requires like 5 inches of post exposed.

On Jul 26, 2023, at 6:09 AM, Garth <gart...@gmail.com> wrote:

Leah, Why is it you believe you need more setback in the first place ?  Compared to the Betty you had with it's 72 degree seat tube angle, the Clems are a more shallow 71.5, which equates to the same saddle and post capable of setting further back by about 6.5mm.  As I've already expressed, if it's forward reach you want going backwards is going in the wrong direction. A longer stem and/or less swept back bars are called for. It seems most riders here asking for more setback ride wayback swept bars. Well that's the issue, that they are too far back, not the setback of the saddle. Get the saddle in an optimal place first, then deal with the reach.

From my experience, being too far back of the pedals and too upright doesn't allow for the most efficient use of leg/core strength. It becomes rather a viscious and futile cycle of trying to compensate for something that can't be compensated for. Been there and done it, in all futility. With the saddle in an optimal position and a forward lean, all of that simply isn't. 

A sure sign of being too far back in the saddle is when climbing. If I'm too far back, I either HAVE to stand to maintain any sort of momentum, or sit and grind in futility where no low gear seems low enough because I'm too far back. Maintaining a fluid spin is impossible. Standing does what ? Places me over the BB, in the optimal "power band". Gee, maybe I ought to been seated further forward to begin with ! ((( laughing )))  In moving saddle forward to an optimal place, hark ..... I find myself able to effectively and efficiently stay seated on climbs, always "on top" of the pedals, even if really steep, and it's marvelous !

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[Doug H.]

Garth,

I may try bars with less reach than my Tosco bars to do just what you're suggesting. I don't want to sit farther back and change the angle of my legs to pedals. Would you say the Albatross bars have less way back than the Toscos?

Doug

On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 6:09:02 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:

[Doug H.]

I should have said more reach than my Toscos? I want bars that come back slightly less.

Doug

[Johnny Alien]

Albatross definitely do not come back as far as tosco bars. I think it would be a good choice for what you are describing.

[Garth]

Doug,  From the diagrams the Albatross bar has a whopping 2-1/2" ... yes.... inches less reach than the Tosco !  Yes, good choice !

On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 4:16:27 PM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:

[Doug H.]

I appreciate the confirmation that Albatross has less reach than my Tosco. I thought that was the case but wanted to be sure before I ordered one.

Doug

[Mike Packard]

Just a plug for the wonderful site https://whatbars.com/ that lets you pick different handlebars and overlay them in a way that makes it really easy to compare width and reach and everything. It has the Albatross and Bosco, which is close enough to Tosco to see how different they are.

Mike