PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[EGNolan]

http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/wsf-160.htm

This proto looks pretty nice; a nice Sam-ish frame w/ cant/V-brakes & room for 50+mm tires. The complete seems like a heckuva deal to boot.

Best,

Eric

[Garth]

   I'm a bit confused .... I thought the Appaloosa was suppose to have really long chainstays, a diagonal tube, and more rake .

This one : https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8186/8419517174_1e94722b62_b.jpg

[Bill Lindsay]

You are only confused because it's kind of confusing.   

They've liked the name "Appaloosa" for a long while, and have several bike concepts in the pipeline.  They fully developed the appaloosa name, by getting a badge made and presumably all the other decal work.  So they are going to use that name, no matter what, on some bike.  Which bike gets that name has changed over time.  That LONG BIKE is a bike in the pipeline, that maybe will eventually get made.  That LONG BIKE just won't have the name Appaloosa, even though there have been LONG BIKE prototypes that have been called Appaloosa, and some that even have the Appaloosa badge.  

[Ginz]

It's a 58cm Proto-loosa, isn't it?

[Garth]

Thanks Bill !  So I'll consider a Appaloosa to mean "prototype" generically then , even though it bears nothing to do with the words meaning or origin .

[Coconutbill]

To be more specific, there is a frame for sale in my size!

[Bill Lindsay]

This is a great opportunity for one to wax philosophical about the role of a name...to outline the nuances between reference, designation, identification, signification....Is the name the thing?  Is the name part of the thing?  Is the name just how we refer to the thing?

[Garth]

Lol Bill  . . .  .  this all reminds of "Who's on first" !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-5dPy1O3CQ

[Kieran J]

That 47 Proto frame is super-adorbs!

KJ

[Bill Lindsay]

Garth

"who's on first" is Junior Varsity compared to "Haddock's Eyes" from Lewis Carrol:

LINK!

[drew]

now there is a reddish 55cm up. am i looking at a hunq fork crown on these guys? it seems like the slightly more affordable, slightly more off roady line up they are working towards is gonna be pretty cool and well timed, trend wise.  

[Daniel D.]

Love that maroon w/cream

[Surlyprof]

+1 on the maroon and creme.  They don't do reds often but, when they do, they do it well.  Can't justify the purchase when the bike looks so similar to my canti-Hillborne.  I am wondering if this is a variation on the Hillborne with capability for wider tires.  If so, that would be fantastic.  This has got me wondering about adding the Big Ben 50s to the Sam.  It handles the 45 Smart Sams well (and I love the bouncy, smooth trail ride) but it is getting a little tight around the chainstays.

John

[James Warren]

I ride Big Ben 50's on my Sam a lot, and it has sidepulls. It's why I think it's such an amazing bike. The 50's are the limit of the bike's tire clearance, and if there were mud, I'd have some interference problems. But do Californians know what mud is anymore?

One of the shots shows a two millimeter clearance with the fender tab, but I don't worry about it:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/17071337951/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/17070605792/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/15646856530/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/15831687195/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/15645878559/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/15646528257/in/dateposted-public/

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

James Warren

jimcw...@earthlink.net

- 700x33

[Surlyprof]

We see mud only if we spill our drink in the dirt.  Of course, if that drink was water, the spill will be followed by the appropriate scornful looks.

Thanks for posting the photos.  How have the Big Bens been for flat protection and riding on gravel?  Most of my commute is along a gravel path and then (sometimes glass covered) city streets.

John

[James Warren]

I've gotten at most two flats on Big Bens in 2.4 years.

They are great on dirt, not sure about gravel.

Sent from my iPhone

[Reid]

But getting back to the original subject, the Appaloosa, can anyone compare it to known Riv models? One description on the web site says it's like an Atlantis with upsloping head tube. So does that mean Atlantis weight tubing rather than AHH weight tubing? Specs that allow for drop bars? Mostly a city bike, road bike, touring bike, off roader??? Just what is it?

Inquiring minds and all that.

Reid

[Ron Mc]

A Sam by any other name.

[Tony DeFilippo]

I'm interested to see how the pricing shakes out of these new Riv models... If the Appaloosa ends up looking like this web special why would they ever bring the Sam back in the line up. We've all been conditioned to want wider and wider tires after all. It's a great head badge to!

Periodically retiring models and continuing to tweak the designs send to be the overriding hallmark of Riv product management.

[Garth]

  I hope this is not a "new" model as there is nothing to me that distinctive , like the "other" prototype apple-oos-a that has the extra long chainstays and swooping middle tube.  That is very unique , the model listed is as it GP says .... a Sam with some extra clearance .  I look forward to something unique ! 

Meanwhile, I'm very happy riding my early model parallel TT Bombadil .  I'm sorta glad it's not made anymore lol , and also glad I could have Riv make me another one custom with some extra long stays and other extras !

[cyclotourist]

When a Riv model goes away, it never comes back (Legolas the partial exception). So don't plan seeing a Hillborne anytime soon.

But really, why should it come back if the Appaloosa is mostly the same bike but with wider clearances.? I think Sam geometry and a bike w/ wider tires is great (presuming tubing isn't heavier)!

As for model designation, a new name is better than calling it the second generation Sam. That avoids any confusion about which ones have wider clearances or other features (How come my bike won't fit an XXX tire, Rivendell said it would...).

Signing off (trying to get in a ride before it heats up).

David (loves parenthesis this morning) in the new Arizona.

On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 5:42 AM, Tony DeFilippo <vpi...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm interested to see how the pricing shakes out of these new Riv models...  If the Appaloosa ends up looking like this web special why would they ever bring the Sam back in the line up.  We've all been conditioned to want wider and wider tires after all. It's a great head badge to!

Periodically retiring models and continuing to tweak the designs send to be the overriding hallmark of Riv product management.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Cheers,
David

Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

[Daniel D.]

But folks at riv keep on mentioning that the Sam is in fact coming back next year?

[drew]

yeah, my understanding is that this is basically a sam with wider clearances and cantis. im trying to remember the conversation i had with them about it and im pretty sure that it's gonna be made by maxway and priced like a sam... then again, i also remember something about it being sold as completes...and there was that new fork crown prototype too.... i dont think the tubing is thicker, but being that the atlantis tubing has gotten thicker over time, this might be comparable to the older atlanti. 

[cyclotourist]

Could be. But if this does everything and more, that would be a lot of redundancy. 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Lungimsam]

I'm holding out for a super light tubing, standard tube width, low trail, canti brake, 650b, carbon brush in the headrube, seat tube taillight braze-on, wireless front dropouts, Rivrandobike.

They have done everything but, I think, so far.
MTN, all road, road, touring, country, single speed, Mixte, and comfort/hybrid/cruiser, have all been touched upon. Tandem is in the works.
Unicycle, and bmx and kid bikes haven't been done yet though.

[Garth]

 They have not done a production long chainstay frame for individual sale , like the one I linked above, or like Leisl's custom . No, the Clems don't count as they were budgeted as complete bikes only and very limited in sizing.


As for low trail , how long can you hold your breath ? Ahahahah !   Keep holding ........
https://signalvnoise.com/posts/2772-bootstrapped-profitable-proud-rivendell

“I don’t want anybody to feel ashamed for asking us to drill holes in forks or make a bike with low ‘trail,’ but I’m resolved not to do it for the same reason Doug Merrick held his ground.

“To a customer, a custom frame can mean ‘I pay you money and you let me design the bike,’ but that’s not what custom means here. We’ve turned down ‘custom’ orders when it’s meant all we do is collect the money and facilitate the customer’s own design. It can be seen as not customer-friendly, but in the end it means I know that every custom has the qualities I value and a certain amount of integrity. If you stand for something and are committed to it, then you dilute it if you introduce something that’s less pure or hard-core.”

There are many builders that make just what you want, including Boulder Bikes .

[Ron Mc]

It's a very good formula and looks like a great bike.  It will probably have a wider market than the proto Appaloosa.  

On Sunday, August 30, 2015 at 1:24:08 PM UTC-5, drew wrote:

yeah, my understanding is that this is basically a sam with wider clearances and cantis. ...

[Steve Palincsar]

On 08/30/2015 05:03 PM, Lungimsam wrote:

I'm holding out for a super light tubing, standard tube width, low trail, canti brake, 650b, carbon brush in the headrube,  seat tube taillight braze-on, wireless front dropouts,  Rivrandobike.

Odds are, you won't get any of that from Rivendell except the canti brakes.  

What you will get is a super stout frame with oversize tubing, a double top tube and high trail geometry.   Tail lights will be bolt-on, and headlights will be battery stap-ons.   There probably will be fender mounts, but odds are the mounting points will be spaced so as to make it impossible to achieve an even fender line.   You'll probably get a unique lug set (because Grant loves designing lugs) and a long top tube because the bike will be designed for use with cruiser bars rather than drop bars.   Chances are it'll come with 3 different sizes: small, medium and large, with the small size designed for 559 tires, the medium for 650B and the large size for 700C.

[Lungimsam]

Well, they gotta know there's a big market for it. Lotsa lugged Rando builders around these days in the USA. Randonneuring seems to be exploding in the USA. I think in this years PBP, the USA had more riders than any other country except France. Riv could go Taiwan or Toyo and undercut the competition. Plus, Riv has the best looking frames/lugs in the industry. They'd be the prettiest.

[Justin August]

Many things can be said about Riv and GP but responding to the market and following others' leads aren't some of them!

-J

[Jim Bronson]

There's a plethora of builders who can help you with that.  Rivendell will not be one of them.  

I don't think rando is un-racerish enough for Grant, and he's definitely not a fan of low-trail.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down!

[Ron Mc]

Jim nailed that one

On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 10:18:45 AM UTC-5, Jim Bronson wrote:

...

[BenG]

Hi Garth,
I bought one of the proto long bikes late in that program. Seems to me like it was "an experiment, a step in the right direction, a successive approximation" (says so on the decal) that led to the Cheviot, the first production long bike. Mine has the horse head badge that will show up on some production bike; long chainstays that are currently in production; and tentacular extrastays that are probably forever limited to Mr. Nobilette's handiwork. I squeezed 50's under its fenders and love the cush, but's too tight for gravel, let alone sticks. I have a Sam, and a long bike, and for me, a Cheviot that fits 2" tires under fenders would be a really nice bike.

[Garth]

  BenG, You mean you have a frame like the green one I linked above ? https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8186/8419517174_1e94722b62_b.jpg

I like those frames ! 

Yes, the Chev looks nice .  My next frame will likely be custom as I have yet to meet another production frame that can "add to" the fit and qualities of my early model Bombadil. Close but no cigar yet ! 

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

So, back to calling the long bikes "Mystery Bikes"?

 

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Garth
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2015 2:17 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

 

Thanks Bill !  So I'll consider a Appaloosa to mean "prototype" generically then , even though it bears nothing to do with the words meaning or origin .


On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 1:33:45 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:

You are only confused because it's kind of confusing.   

 

They've liked the name "Appaloosa" for a long while, and have several bike concepts in the pipeline.  They fully developed the appaloosa name, by getting a badge made and presumably all the other decal work.  So they are going to use that name, no matter what, on some bike.  Which bike gets that name has changed over time.  That LONG BIKE is a bike in the pipeline, that maybe will eventually get made.  That LONG BIKE just won't have the name Appaloosa, even though there have been LONG BIKE prototypes that have been called Appaloosa, and some that even have the Appaloosa badge.  

On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 9:01:30 AM UTC-7, Garth wrote:

   I'm a bit confused .... I thought the Appaloosa was suppose to have really long chainstays, a diagonal tube, and more rake .

This one : https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8186/8419517174_1e94722b62_b.jpg

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 735-3000 and permanently delete the original email (and any copy of any email) and any printout thereof.

Further information about the firm, a list of the Partners and their professional qualifications will be provided upon request.

==============================================================================

[Bill Lindsay]

Mystery bikes, or "tentacular long bikes".  Rosco Bubbe and Bosco Rubbe also were placeholders for possible bike names.  Remember that BMX-ish bike with a fork crown that was on the Blug, or was it the knot-hole.  They referred to it as Rosco Bubbe.  Looking back on that, that was most likely not an actual prototype BMX or kids' bike.  It was more likely a prototype merely to enable Riv to evaluate the joining-work of their vendor on a bike that was part-tigged and partly lugged.  If all you need to see are a bunch of joints, and if you prefer to see them in a completed frame of some kind, then I suppose it makes sense that it be little.  

On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 10:15:27 AM UTC-7, Pudge wrote:

So, back to calling the long bikes "Mystery Bikes"?

 

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Garth
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2015 2:17 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

 

Thanks Bill !  So I'll consider a Appaloosa to mean "prototype" generically then , even though it bears nothing to do with the words meaning or origin .


On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 1:33:45 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:

You are only confused because it's kind of confusing.   

 

They've liked the name "Appaloosa" for a long while, and have several bike concepts in the pipeline.  They fully developed the appaloosa name, by getting a badge made and presumably all the other decal work.  So they are going to use that name, no matter what, on some bike.  Which bike gets that name has changed over time.  That LONG BIKE is a bike in the pipeline, that maybe will eventually get made.  That LONG BIKE just won't have the name Appaloosa, even though there have been LONG BIKE prototypes that have been called Appaloosa, and some that even have the Appaloosa badge.  

On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 9:01:30 AM UTC-7, Garth wrote:

   I'm a bit confused .... I thought the Appaloosa was suppose to have really long chainstays, a diagonal tube, and more rake .

This one : https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8186/8419517174_1e94722b62_b.jpg

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to rbw-own...@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Beautiful – whose bike is that?  List member?

 

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Garth

Sent: Monday, August 31, 2015 12:56 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Garth]

   FWIW, Here also is Leisl's frame .  It appears to differ in there are 2 diagonal tubes, like really long chainstay kinda tubes. The green one uses one main tube and uses a lug on the seat tube . Regardless, I love this style ! 

http://rivbike.tumblr.com/post/80720787036/heres-the-story-of-our-latest-custom-bike-for

[Garth]

  I'm not sure who owns that green frame , someone is riding it somewhere or it's at Riv HQ .

Keven also has one too , a 58.7 proto-Appaloosa . http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/staff3.htm

[BenG]

A brown "mystery bike" is my commuting bike. For me, the 50mm tires make it wonderful, the long stays make it different, and the curvy tentacles make it (nearly) unique. Based on my own saddle time on Sam and the long one, the fat-tired Sam called an Appaloosa prototype, the one that started this thread, seems great. Every non-racing bike should fit fatties fine (oops).

[iamkeith]

I'm confused here too.  I understood  that these modified Sam Hillbornes were replacing the original mystery/long bikes for the Joe Appaloosa "name," but I thought that they were going to have long chainstays in addition to having more tire clearance.  I seem to recall a Blug entry or  something  which mentioned that Dave or John had a brainstorm of combining: (1) the existing Hillborne lug set and (2) new special-order chainstays with (3) the un-utilized  Appaloosa Headbadge - and that this was how the idea was born.  Does this sound familiar to anybody else, or am I imagining things?

In general, this looks like a great update to the Hillborne and, as noted by others, I can't imagine why they'd ever go back to the lesser-clearance version....   though I'm not sure that alone warrants a name change.  Canti versions have existed since the beginning of the model run, and other models have gone through much bigger changes without a name change.  (Bombadil gained tire clearance AND diag-a-tube, for instance.)

But, unfortunately, this looks like its not going to fill any gaps for me, unless they can fit a much bigger tire than the 50mm (and fit different sizes than the Hunqapillar).  I was thinking that this project was a good backup plan to have out there on the horizon, but I guess I'm back to crossing my fingers that my Clem will fit better than the numbers suggest and now ALSO hoping that I don't regret passing on your 56 Bombadil (Bill), in the meantime.

On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 11:33:45 AM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:

[Paul Brodek]

The finger points to the moon, but the finger is not the moon.

On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 2:31:24 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:

This is a great opportunity for one to wax philosophical about the role of a name...to outline the nuances between reference, designation, identification, signification....Is the name the thing?  Is the name part of the thing?  Is the name just how we refer to the thing?

On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 11:17:27 AM UTC-7, Garth wrote:

Thanks Bill !  So I'll consider a Appaloosa to mean "prototype" generically then , even though it bears nothing to do with the words meaning or origin .

[Liesl]

Fun to see a link to my custom; thanks Garth! Yep, my custom differs from the Mystery Bike in that the mid stays are doubled and go right into the asymmetric tentacular stays. And yep it's a Nobilette.

I thought of it as a Custom Appaloosa because of the badge on the Mystery (which is what the custom was besed on) but perhaps it's not. So I too am confused that the proto Appaloosa doesn't have the 50+ chainstays. I for one *love* them.

[Lungimsam]

It's good to have a new name.
Then less confusion on which "Sam" you are looking at in a given "FS:" listing. The long stay wider tire version or the 42mm tire max version.

[Garth]

 Yeah Leisl , of all the Riv frames I must say your design is the absolute coolest !  Truly long and low with style ! 

I cannot see either why the next production frame will not have the 50cm+ chainstays, given the talk-up in the blug saying essentially "there's no reason why not to" !   Seeing that prototype's are just what they are , "test" frames , I take the "sam-like" test frame for sale as just that , a tester , but as such is ever subject to change. Not final. It may be well decided to go with the long chainstays for the next frame and for whatever reason it was time to put up the "sam-like" frame for sale.

[Jeremy Till]

The bright green long chainstay bike was one of the original series of "mystery bike" protos, that Rivendell had Nobilette build as a test bed/demo bike for the concept and was in their showroom for a while before selling it.  I had the pleasure of riding it then, and it sold me on the concept of upright bars for all kinds of riding, and the awesomeness of Bosco bars.  I happen to know that it currently belongs to Riv/ SF Bay Area local Finn Taylor.