My custom is finished!

[René Sterental]

Hi all,

After patiently waiting for a month for the paint to cure/harden, I finally completed the build on Friday night, so I could take the bike on its maiden ride on Saturday morning with my friends. The only thing that was still pending, which I did today, was to tape, twine and shellac the kickstand.

I have to say the on its first ride, the bike beat my expectations. Yes, I had gone over how I wanted it to fit and Steve Rex had taken all his measurements and come up with a custom geometry that I then tweaked to get the low trail amount I wanted, and I had requested all the custom touches, both functional and aesthetic.

I had gotten all the parts after careful consideration, as well as decided to try a B17 Select again based on the reviews from members of this group that stated it was quite superior to the regular ones due to its special leather.

I had even decided to try to go with traditional non-aero brake levers for the personality and looks, and got some original NOS Dia-Compe brakes to try. If I didn't like them, I'd go back to the aero levers but this was my chance to try them. Even got the Dia-Compe cages from RBW that I thought were more elegant than the King cages I have on the other bikes.

I'm sure you want to see photos first, so here is the link to the first photo: https://flic.kr/p/LFW4RL - scroll to the right for more.

The quality of the ride was fantastic. I believe I ended up in a slightly more aggressive position, but even more comfortable than on the Atlantis. I love the brake levers and their braking with the Compass Centerpull brakes. Even though I can tell they are less powerful from the hoods than the aero levers, the braking feel is totally fine and I like the power and modulation of those brakes.

I got the special washers that Jan just released to give the brake pads automatic permanent toe-in, but even so, with new brake pads and new polished rims, the brakes squealed quite a bit at first. While I didn't expect the intensity of the sound, what was even more astounding was the quality of the sound. They sounded like the fog horn on a ship, not at all the high pitch squeal I've gotten from other brakes in the past. The sound progressively diminished during the ride, and towards the end I remembered to throw some water on the pads which everyone says quiets them and that worked. The sound is not completely gone yet, but almost. I'm going on 30 mile ride tomorrow in the Coyote Creek Trail and I'm sure that with a few more water splashes they'll be totally quiet and I'll miss sounding like a ship through the fog.

I went with the 40mm wide Compass Rando bars which combined with the 35mm trail was perfect. I have the 42mm wide on the Atlantis (40mm trail) but I think I'll try the 40mm bars on it as well. My hands were much more comfortable, and I don't know yet what the exact difference is, but I'll try to assess it.

I was planning on going with the brown tall Acorn Rando bag, and had gotten the matching Rando and medium saddle bag, but last week I "felt" I had to consider the Berthoud Rando bag as well, as it seemed it would match the bike much better. Theo at Compass has always been so nice to me, that I ordered the bag from them (Jan has also customized them) and it was love at fit sight! (Pun intended). I was really impressed by the Berthoud bag, and needless to say, it seems it was meant for my custom. So I had to decide what to do with the Acorn bags and after a family demo and show, the overall consensus was that I needed to put the brown one on the Atlantis as it was better than the green one. My son and I had a harder time deciding, but for my wife it was a no-brainier and anything that gets her "involved" in my bikes is good!

I've offered the bags to a friend who just got a Soma Randonneur, but if he doesn't want them, I'll post them from sale here. Needless to say, they in like-new condition with imperceptible wear. I've had them for a while, but just put them on the Atlantis a couple of months ago.

So needless to say, I'm incredibly excited and satisfied with the outcome. As I ride it more and continue to lose weight and get fitter, I'm sure there will be minor tweaks here and there, but for the first time, I truly have everything I've wanted in a single bike. What will that mean moving forward for the rest of my stable? We'll see... No matter what, I'm sure I'll always have at least one Rivendell bike next to it. 

René 

[Tim Butterfield]

It looks great, René, really nice..

Tim

René 

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[René Sterental]

Thanks Tim. How are you liking your Homer? Did you take care of the rattling? Have you done more rides?

[Curtis McKenzie]

Sweet ride. Enjoy!

Curtis

[Tim Butterfield]

On Sun, Sep 4, 2016 at 6:44 PM, René Sterental <orth...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Tim. How are you liking your Homer? Did you take care of the rattling? Have you done more rides?

To avoid taking your thread OT, I'll reply to this on my thread.

Tim

[Chris Birkenmaier]

Really nice! I'm sure you are going to get a lot of enjoyment from that bike.

[Tony DeFilippo]

Gorgeous, is been fun to watch the process and I'm impressed by the finished product. Keep up the ride reports!

[LeahFoy]

Eye candy! Can't wait to hear about the miles you'll log together. We'll stay tuned to hear about your 30 mile ride!

[Clayton]

Stunning bike! :)

Clayton (Bend)

 

[peec...@yahoo.com]

A beautiful and well considered bicycle.  I am at a stage of considering a custom build along similar lines and your bike may serve as inspiration.  Tim.

[Santosh Iyer]

Rene,

Your bike is absolutely gorgeous, and it's good to hear that she rides like a dream too. Can you share your 'build kit' details with the group, if you haven't already?

Santosh Iyer

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[WETH]

A beautiful bike! Enjoy it and thanks for sharing all the photos!

[JohnS]

Beautiful build René. I especially like the custom racks and their integration with the fenders and head light. The rear rack is very interesting. It's there, but not there sort of rack so I wonder how much it will be able carry, but then again, that maybe the point. Also the lug work is stunning!

Thanks for sharing,

JohnS

[Eric Karnes]

Beautiful!

On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 9:12:55 PM UTC-4, René wrote:

[RichS]

Rene, wishing you many satisfying miles on this gem of a bike. Thanks for sharing the build story.

Best,
Richard

[Patrick Moore]

Very nice! Lucky you! Let's hear about the inaugural ride.

René 

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[René Sterental]

Thank you all for all your comments and for sharing in the joy and excitement. It's certainly quite meaningful for me.

Responding to the questions...

Originally, Steve Rex said the racks would be for light loads only, especially the rear one; however, when I went to pick it up, he said I could pretty much load them as I wanted, that they were pretty sturdy and rigid, and he referred to them as stiffer than a Tubus rack. I cannot make comparisons, and I never intended this to be a touring bike, but more of an all-around bike. Still, it's good to know that I don't have to necessarily restrain the loads. No matter what, as a low trail bike, the primary loads will go on the front and lighter loads on the rear. Not that I'm doing any real touring yet, but it's been one of those dreams I have. However, the Atlantis is meant for that role. It will be interesting to test and compare both for S240s, as I've never used either of them for that. My past two S240s were with the Hunqapillar and organized by RBW in Mt. Diablo. They haven't organized one in a very long time, and I haven't done one on my own either. But I'm thinking of doing one in China Camp, taking the train from Palo Alto, then the ferry and then riding there.

The build is as follows:

- René Herse 26/42 171mm crankset

- 11/34 Shimano XT 10 speed cassette

- Sun XCD front and rear derailleurs

- Shimano 10 speed downtube shifters

- DMR Vault pedals (chrome)

- Compass Centerpull brakes with Dia-Compe Non-Aero NOS brake levers

- 650b Compass 42mm Babyshoe Pass tires

- Synergy Atlas polished rims 36 spokes

- Honjo 650b 58mm hammered fenders

- Front Widebody SON SL Dynamo hub

- Rear White Industries T11 hub

- Edelux II front light

- Compass integrated dynamo taillight (both lights have the stand light feature)

- Compass 40mm Randonneur handlebars

- Nitto 8cm Pearl stem

- Nitto S84 lugged seat post with the large setback

- Brooks B17 Select

- Berthoud tall Rando bag special version for Compass Cycles with Berthoud decaleur

- Dia-Compe bottle cages (two installed, bike has capacity for three)

I guess that's it, hopefully I'm not forgetting anything...

Ah, yes! Yesterday I finished the one detail that was pending: taped, twined and shellacked the kickstand. Used white tape with hand-mixed amber shellac trying to get to a honey leather color but ending instead with a shade that matches the gum sidewall from the tires which looks quite good to me. I cannot remember what tape gives the honey when shellacked in amber, but I really like it the outcome I got.

I did one 24 mile on Saturday with friends, exploring the trails going north along the SF Bay from Palo Alto, and we "discovered" a very nice park I had never been in, with nice dirt trails: Bedwell Bayfront Park, just north of Facebook HQ. I'm going to keep exploring that area, as I've never ridden there. The Bay Trail is not complete, so the different segments are connected by streets, but you ride along salt marshes and it's very nice.

Today I did a 31 mile ride with a friend, riding the Coyote Creek Trail from Hellyer Park in San Jose to Morgan Hill and back. We started early when it was cool and nice, and avoided the crowds close to the park we started seeing by the time we got back. This was my second time on that trail and I really like it. It's very well maintained, you go through the open areas south of San Jose and pass by a remote control airplane airfield where you see some really skilled people flying these large remote control airplanes, doing aerobatics and just having fun. Most of them are old men, but I don't know exactly what that means. Maybe they have the love and patience to build and maintain those airplanes. Or, younger men cannot afford them... No women though, at least in the two times I've been there, which isn't much to make any assessments. Don't know much about that hobby.

Thanks again to everyone for sharing in this passion. Hopefully, I'll be able to join on the next Bay Area group gathering and my custom will be allowed. 

Hope you all had a wonderful long weekend,

René 

[René Sterental]

Oops! Forgot to post the link for the kickstand... https://flic.kr/p/LKGWJ1

René 

[Bill in Roswell GA]

Thumbs up, Rene!

Cheers

Bill in Roswell, GA

On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 9:12:55 PM UTC-4, René wrote:

[R Shannon]

Beautiful tape/twine work! My kickstands should look this good. Thanks for the inspiration.

Regards,

Richard

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[René Sterental]

Ha ha ha ha!!! Thanks!

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[Lungimsam]

Got any tubing specs?

[Ron Mc]

she's a knockout

[René Sterental]

Yes!

True-temper tubing:

- Top Tube: .9-.6-.9 - 28.6mm

- Down Tube: .9-.6-.9 - 31.8mm

- Seat Tube: .9-.6 (the BB lug doesn't require the tube to be thicker on that section) - 28.6mm

- Chain Stays: Round-oval-round - .8

- Seat Stays: .7 - 16mm

- Fork: Kaisei "Toei Special" Fork Blades sold by Compass, I believe.

I had originally thought it would be built with lighter tubes, like the .8-.5-.8 on the Homer, but never explicitly requested that and Steve chose the above. So it's equivalent to my Atlantis in terms of tubing.

If/when I lose the 40-60 lbs I'm still carrying and decide I want one of those super-light planing frames, I'll deal with that. But honestly, I don't know that I would. I'd have to test ride one when I'm a skinny person and decide then. The custom handles so nicely, that there would have to be a dramatic difference and it would also depend on the type of riding I'm doing.

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 11:50 PM, Lungimsam <john1...@gmail.com> wrote:

Got any tubing specs?

[Lungimsam]

I have asked two people on organized bike rides that appeared to be non-readers of BQ and RBW (based on their statements) and they both said they felt no flex/planing on their 1) Mercian skinny tubed french made bike, and 2) their Reynolds skinny tubes British bike. Both responded to my question as if they had never heard about the alleged benefits of steel frame flex with skinny thin walled tubing. They appeared to be people who just ride and don't read biking literature/blogs, etc.

The only people I know of who talk about planing that I have encountered are people who read this stuff.

So I still don't know if skinnytubeframeflex really helps. Guess I will also have to try one and see for myself. Although I will say my Rambouillet is seems easier to pedal down the road than my Hillborne and Bleriot. The front triangle is the same but rear triangle a smidge lighter. Shorter stays, different geo so hard to compare.

That said, I just rode my way through a hilly century and the Bleriot felt plenty fast and easy to pedal down the road. I love my Bleriot bike.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 09/07/2016 03:03 PM, Lungimsam wrote:
> I have asked two people on organized bike rides that appeared to be non-readers of BQ and RBW (based on their statements) and they both said they felt no flex/planing on their 1) Mercian skinny tubed french made bike, and 2) their Reynolds skinny tubes British bike. Both responded to my question as if they had never heard about the alleged benefits of steel frame flex with skinny thin walled tubing. They appeared to be people who just ride and don't read biking literature/blogs, etc.
>
> The only people I know of who talk about planing that I have encountered are people who read this stuff.

Many of us have encountered it but prior to reading had no vocabulary to
describe it, other than what we used to call such frames back in the
70s: "lively".

>
> So I still don't know if skinnytubeframeflex really helps. Guess I will also have to try one and see for myself. Although I will say my Rambouillet is seems easier to pedal down the road than my Hillborne and Bleriot. The front triangle is the same but rear triangle a smidge lighter. Shorter stays, different geo so hard to compare.

I wish you would have said while we where at St Ignatius. You could
have borrowed my VO Randonneur, taken it down to the bottom of the hill
and ridden it back up again. :-)

>
> That said, I just rode my way through a hilly century and the Bleriot felt plenty fast and easy to pedal down the road. I love my Bleriot bike.

Surely not the Indian Head 100...!

[Lungimsam]

Hilly for me, Steve! 

[Steve Palincsar]

On 09/07/2016 03:49 PM, Lungimsam wrote:
> Hilly for me, Steve!
>

Ellicott City is hilly. The CWC is hilly. Compared to them, the Indian
Head 100 was nearly flat! 3200 feet of elevation gain, according to
RWGPS, 7000 feet of elevation gain for the Civil War Century.

[Lungimsam]

Yes, Ellicott City is hilly. Some times I feel bogged down on the hills around here. I am not a strong rider, that is why IH100 felt hilly to me. But I had a great time and seemed to get over the hills easily enough. I never felt bogged down, like riding at home. Nicely rolling in Indian Head!

I am new to century riding. So maybe it is the distance and not so much the hills that tires me out.

I am sure that the skinnytubed/thinwall thing makes a difference, but not sure if I could tell. Not sure everyone could tell. I was mainly pointing out that some people don't seem to notice. But maybe they haven;t ridden anything else for comparison. Some people can tell. Some think about such things, some don't.\

I don't feel that big a diff between my 650b 42, 38, and 32mm supple GB?Compass tires, so I may not have a sensitive palette for tires. Even my Ram on 700c x 32's feels just as cushy as hetres on 650b to me. It is at the 28mm level that I can start to feel a diff. So I know I am not so sensitive to the tire widths.

But I look forward to riding a skinny bike someday. I often have thought about a Boulder skinny All-Road.

But congrats to Rene for the amazing custom bike! His changing setups are very interesting to read about!

[René Sterental]

Good point. Like you, I guess that someday I may want to try one of those bikes. We'll see.

Thanks for your comments!

René 

--

[Will]

Rene,

Have you posted the geometry? I don't remember seeing it. I am curious how different this custom is from your low trail Atlantis.

Will

On Wednesday, September 7, 2016 at 11:03:57 AM UTC-5, René wrote:

Yes!

True-temper tubing:

- Top Tube: .9-.6-.9 - 28.6mm

- Down Tube: .9-.6-.9 - 31.8mm

- Seat Tube: .9-.6 (the BB lug doesn't require the tube to be thicker on that section) - 28.6mm

- Chain Stays: Round-oval-round - .8

- Seat Stays: .7 - 16mm

- Fork: Kaisei "Toei Special" Fork Blades sold by Compass, I believe.

I had originally thought it would be built with lighter tubes, like the .8-.5-.8 on the Homer, but never explicitly requested that and Steve chose the above. So it's equivalent to my Atlantis in terms of tubing.

If/when I lose the 40-60 lbs I'm still carrying and decide I want one of those super-light planing frames, I'll deal with that. But honestly, I don't know that I would. I'd have to test ride one when I'm a skinny person and decide then. The custom handles so nicely, that there would have to be a dramatic difference and it would also depend on the type of riding I'm doing.

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 11:50 PM, Lungimsam <john1...@gmail.com> wrote:

Got any tubing specs?

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[René Sterental]

I did, but here it is again:

- Head tube angle: 72 deg.

- Seat tube angle: 71.5 deg.

- Seat tube length: 60cm C-C

- Top tube true horizontal length: 58.6cm

- Top tube inclination: 2 deg

- Head tube length: 20.8cm

- Seat stay length: 55cm

- Chain stay length: 46cm

- BB drop: 67mm

- Fork Rake: 70mm

- Fork Trail: 35mm

- Stand-over height: 84.9 (per spec, I haven't measured it with the Compass Babyshoe Pass tires  yet)

- I feel perfectly well seated on the Brooks B17 Select attached to the Nitto S84 full setback seat post with the saddle pushed all the way back in its limited adjustment.

René 

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[Will]

Thanks. I was curious about the similarity/difference between your new custom and the Atlantis that you low-trailed and really like. The comparasion notion occured once you published the tube specs and they lined up with Atlantis spec.

This is what I see (from the Riv geo table on 61 cm Atlanti):

                          Rene Custom          61 Atlantis

HT                         72                           72                          
ST                         71.5                        72
ST length               60                           ? but close to 60 since Riv measures center to top and C to T is 61
TT length               58.6                       59
CS length               46                          45.5
BB drop                  67                          80
Tail                         35                          40 per Rene on custom fork

It mostly lines up, no surprise since you like the Atlantis, but the BB drop is an anomaly.

[Daniel Jackson]

Thanks for this lineup. Very interesting. BB drop difference is due to difference in wheel sizes.

[René Sterental]

I rode the Atlantis to work today, and agree that while subtle, the differences are on the positive side. As stated, since I've been able to tweak the Atlantis to a point where I like it very much, the tweaks just enhance that.

Also, the geometry doesn't tell the whole story on its own, as far as I can tell. I've yet to compare other measurements, but here are some examples:

- Atlantis with Compass Rando Bars & 6cm Pearl stem

- Custom with Compass Rando Bars & 8cm Pearl stem

Have yet to measure horizontal distance from saddle to brake levers and end of stem on both to compare, as well as saddle setback from the BB. 

I'm by no means a full expert on interpreting the geometry, but my requests to Steve Rex and also my initial fitting required that I be able to sit further back, avoid toe overlap and have the handlebar/stem "centered" to allow me to go higher or lower, as well as forward or rearward depending on the handlebars I'd choose.

So for example, even though the length of the top tube is quite similar, the 0.5 degrees of slacker seat tube angle puts the stem further back than it would appear from just the numbers alone.

I have to say he delivered. It's also taken me several years or riding and evolution to figure out what I wanted in a custom geometry. My biggest issue with standard bicycles is feeling as if I'm too far forward and want to keep sliding backwards to the point I'm sitting on the rear edge of the saddle, which in turn puts too much weight on my hands and makes them hurt, irrespective of how high the bars are.

René 

On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Daniel Jackson <daniel.se...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for this lineup. Very interesting. BB drop difference is due to difference in wheel sizes.

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