Biking trip in CA?

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I did not realize this would be a long weekend. After it dawned on us that there is no school Monday, we are considering packing up and driving to CA for a mini-vacation. I would love it to be a bike trip, but I love biking more than anyone else in my family, and you know how that goes - you gotta consider the other yahoos you live with. Does anyone have any suggestions for dazzling places to bike in southern or central CA? Heck, maybe even northern Cal.

Wish List:
1. Protected bike path so we all come home alive.
2. Along a water source (living in the desert, if we can ride by/to/along a lake or river or ocean, we’re in raptures!)
3. Not too hilly (because the yahoos will protest and want to quit early)

I realize this is a rather dreamy (unrealistic?) wish list but if such paradise existed, someone on this Calfiornia-heavy List would definitely know.

Thanks!
Leah

[Eric Norris]

Lots of great, flat cycling here in the Sacramento area. The American River Parkway trail runs (car-free) along the American River from Old Sacramento to Folsom—about 28 miles one way, but there are plenty of opportunities to stop and turn around. Here’s a scene from Sunday’s ride:

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com

@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

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[Joe Bernard]

One caveat for NorCal is it's cold and raining right now. Saturday is sorta ok for 60° and cloudy, but rain Sunday. Monday looks a little better.

[Eric Norris]

Fewer crowds on the bike trail when it’s raining a little :-)

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com

@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

On Jan 15, 2019, at 1:22 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

One caveat for NorCal is it's cold and raining right now. Saturday is sorta ok for 60° and cloudy, but rain Sunday. Monday looks a little better.

[Steven Sweedler]

I am riding down the coast I’m in Guadalupe and it’s very windy with some rain,  wind from the south!

Steve

--

Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

[Leah Peterson]

We definitely are fair-weather bikers on vacation! Looks like So Cal has hope of sun and warm weather this weekend but Joe is right, Nor Cal is going to be wet. 

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[Curtis McKenzie]

How about the Ojai Bike path out of Ventura.

Ventura is a nice sea side town worth a visit even for any reason.

http://venturacountytrails.org/TrailMaps/OjaiBikePath/AreaHome.html

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g60769-d2559646-Reviews-Ventura_to_Ojai_Paved_Bike_Path-Ventura_California.html

http://www.pathlesspedaled.com/2014/01/15/rode-trip-exploring-ojai-by-bike/

Enjoy,

Curtis

[Deacon Patrick]

The yahoo equation trumps all else and often renders the equation unsolvable for anything but day rides. Sardonic grin. We try and combine activities of intersection as much as possible, and allow time for individual/different group activities that have us doing things in smaller groups before reconvening.

But I knew I was in trouble with the yahoos and lost all credibility when I said: “that’s the last hill. It’s flat the rest of the way.” Not long after followed by them at the base of the flat looking up at the top of the flat and asking me what this was. Sardonic grin. Oops. Their hill is my flat. My flat contains a lot of their hills. My hills are their unridable. Grin. Yahoos see the world differently.

With abandon,
Patrick

[Deacon Patrick]

Worth noting is the definition, etimology, and synonyms for yahoo:

1capitalized : a member of a race of brutes in Swift's Gulliver's Travels who have the form and all the vices of humans
2 [influenced by 2yahoo] : a boorish, crass, or stupid person

Synonyms: airhead, blockhead, chucklehead, dimwit, dodo, dolt, donkey, dope, dork, dullard, dumbbell, dummy, dunce, fathead, goof, goon, half-wit, idiot, ignoramus, imbecile, know-nothing, knucklehead, lamebrain, loon, lunkhead, moron, nincompoop, ninny, nitwit, noddy, noodle, numskull (or numbskull), oaf, pinhead, saphead, simpleton, stock, turkey, yo-yo
Antonyms: brain, genius

[Leah Peterson]

Well, those definitions are not at all what I meant! Where I come from a yahoo is an affectionate term for the impishness and quirks you find in someone.

Sent from my iPhone

[dougP]

The weather on SoCal is predicted to be sunny on both Sat & Sun.  I'm biased since I live here but for the conditions you describe, Irvine has a wonderful system of paved, off-road trails with gentle grades.  Many loops are possible so you can do 20+ miles, not just out'n'backs.  Especially good is the Mountains to the Sea trail that loops around the Newport Back Bay. 

I'll check the city website to see if there are links to any maps.  PM me with questions.

dougP

[dougP]

Leah:

Here's a link to the City of Irvine that has maps:

https://www.cityofirvine.org/transportation/irvine-shares-way

Scroll about half-way down to the "Bikeways" heading. 

dougP

On Tuesday, January 15, 2019 at 1:04:59 PM UTC-8, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

[Deacon Patrick]

Yahoo has taken on less severe connotations, aye, Leah? Intended or not, you left all of us in hysterics laughing at eachother and ourselves all over again! That’s always a good thing. Afterall, aren’t we all yahoos? Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

[Leah Peterson]

Well ok, let’s all be yahoos then! At least it’s funny. And I can always do with more of that.

I’m looking into the links the rest of you sent. I must say, I came to the right place - you guys are like genies in a bottle! Definitely not yahoos!

Keep ‘em coming,
Leah

Sent from my iPhone

[Joe Bernard]

Everyone knows you meant "yahoos" in the most loving way, Leah, it's like "knuckleheads".

[Toshi Takeuchi]

There's a nice bike path along the beach that goes from Redondo Beach up towards Malibu.  There is a bit of a jaunt onto roads at Marina del Rey, so you if you want to avoid that, then you can go from Venice up north through Santa Monica until you feel like you want to turn around.  Venice/Santa Monica is kind of fun to visit, so I would recommend that, and there is ice cream and other food stalls/restaurants set up along the beach in Venice.

Toshi (it's raining in Oakland)

On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 2:54 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Everyone knows you meant "yahoos" in the most loving way, Leah, it's like "knuckleheads".

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[Joe Bernard]

Ooh, Venice/Santa Monica is a nice flat ride. Just be aware that the Venice side can look a little rough to the unprepared, it's an..eccentric..community.

[sameness]

Nah, man, it's all tech millionaires now (and the crackheads who love them).

Jeff Hagedorn

Los Angeles, CA USA

[Ed Carolipio]

Thumbs up on the Marvin Braude bike path to the west of Los Angeles, which is in my neck of the woods.

We usually park at Miramar Park, in Torrance. Parking's not free but it's relatively inexpensive and is for the day. Caution though there's a steep walk down to Torrance Beach from the parking lot. From there, it's just a matter of choosing where you want to turn around: most adults and big kids can make it to Manhattan Beach pier easily, Dockweiler (LAX) with a bit of a push, Venice with motivation, and Santa Monica with ambition. The path gets wonky right before Hermosa (there may be stairs involved) and around Marina Del Rey (a detour into the edge of the city) so check Google Maps on the route.

You'll encounter minimal car traffic throughout, and in the winter probably not very much foot or bike traffic. It's relatively flat but you may have to content with a headwind. Lots of potential stops along the way to rest, to grab a bite to eat, or to sightsee and take pictures. (There are lots of public restrooms along the way: as a guy I never minded them but my sister seemed to always be leery.)

[Pictures show Dockweiler -> Hermosa Beach -> Redondo Beach marina, which is from north to south on the path.]

--Ed C.

On Tuesday, January 15, 2019 at 1:04:59 PM UTC-8, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

[Leah Peterson]

You are all the BEST. I am looking through the SoCal options now and am really excited about a couple of them - The Marvin Braude bike path is especially enticing since there is so much to see. Also, the Ventura-Ojai path and possibly Irvine. Wow! I’ll talk it over with my beloved yahoos (who will be reluctant because that’s a LOT of biking) and then pour it on thick next month for my birthday if we don’t make it this weekend. That’s fair, right? I may have questions about some of the trails, but I’ll try to email you privately so as not to bombard everyone with them.

Thanks again, friends!

Leah

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 15, 2019, at 5:59 PM, Ed Carolipio <ed.car...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thumbs up on the Marvin Braude bike path to the west of Los Angeles, which is in my neck of the woods.

We usually park at Miramar Park, in Torrance. Parking's not free but it's relatively inexpensive and is for the day. Caution though there's a steep walk down to Torrance Beach from the parking lot. From there, it's just a matter of choosing where you want to turn around: most adults and big kids can make it to Manhattan Beach pier easily, Dockweiler (LAX) with a bit of a push, Venice with motivation, and Santa Monica with ambition. The path gets wonky right before Hermosa (there may be stairs involved) and around Marina Del Rey (a detour into the edge of the city) so check Google Maps on the route.

You'll encounter minimal car traffic throughout, and in the winter probably not very much foot or bike traffic. It's relatively flat but you may have to content with a headwind. Lots of potential stops along the way to rest, to grab a bite to eat, or to sightsee and take pictures. (There are lots of public restrooms along the way: as a guy I never minded them but my sister seemed to always be leery.)

[Pictures show Dockweiler -> Hermosa Beach -> Redondo Beach marina, which is from north to south on the path.]

--Ed C.

<IMG_5800.jpg><IMG_5801.jpeg><IMG_5842.jpg>

On Tuesday, January 15, 2019 at 1:04:59 PM UTC-8, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

I did not realize this would be a long weekend. After it dawned on us that there is no school Monday, we are considering packing up and driving to CA for a mini-vacation. I would love it to be a bike trip, but I love biking more than anyone else in my family, and you know how that goes - you gotta consider the other yahoos you live with. Does anyone have any suggestions for dazzling places to bike in southern or central CA? Heck, maybe even northern Cal.

Wish List:
1. Protected bike path so we all come home alive.
2. Along a water source (living in the desert, if we can ride by/to/along a lake or river or ocean, we’re in raptures!)
3. Not too hilly (because the yahoos will protest and want to quit early)

I realize this is a rather dreamy (unrealistic?) wish list but if such paradise existed, someone on this Calfiornia-heavy List would definitely know.

Thanks!
Leah

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<IMG_5800.jpg>

<IMG_5801.jpeg>

<IMG_5842.jpg>

[Jim Bronson]

Or anklebiters ;)

On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 4:54 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Everyone knows you meant "yahoos" in the most loving way, Leah, it's like "knuckleheads".

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[Patrick Moore]

If you travel the Ventura-Ojai path, please take and post photos. I lived in the area briefly (Santa Paul/Ojai/Ventura) but it was very long ago and I'd like to see what the amenities look like now -- certainly there was no cycling infrastructure in 1979. Who knows, I am hoping ("hoping;" it's not her first or second or fifth choice) my daughter will attend Thomas Aquinas College in Santa Paula in 2019, and I may have a chance to try the path out. We'll see.

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A new road or a secret gate,
And though we pass them by today,
Tomorrow we may come this way
And take the hidden paths that run
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Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I did the bike path from Manhattan Beach toward Hermosa Beach, and I do recall there was some shifting around when the path went from along the beach toward near the street above the stairs.  You did need to leave the bike path along the beach and move to the path closer to the street, but we did not require any directions, as it was straightforward as long as you figured out the change in the path.  There is a stretch where you can go along either bike path, but the beach path eventually ends going South from Manhattan Beach.  There are plenty of places to eat in Hermosa Beach--I think you had to walk the bike on the path during the weekend because there is a bunch of foot traffic and there was a farmer's market there too.  I didn't go south of Hermosa beach.

Enjoy!

Toshi

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[Drw]

if you/family havent been here before, and don't live near an ocean, i'd recommend riding the bike path from marina del rey into malibu. you'd hit the venice boardwalk (you could even drop into the canals), santa monica, the pier and third street if you want, and some nice coastline a little further north with some decent restaurants. it's totally flat with a ton of stuff to stop and do and see to keep the kids engaged. the only downside is that coming back, you'd see all the same stuff.  I think a lot of us who live here, like Irvine because it can feel more "outdoors" than most of the urban LA area, but if you come from a more outdoorsy place, I worry it might be disappointing. 

[Toshi Takeuchi]

Yeah Venice to Malibu is iconic S. California with muscle beach in Venice, the pier in Santa Monica and surfing in Malibu!

Toshi

[Abcyclehank]

Leah,

What kind of boots would God loving North Dakotan wear surfing 🏄‍♀️ exactly. Would love to see pics of you attempting to hang 10. Request to keep as much of this on list until final
details; us cold weather Michigander’s like to live vicariously through others and dream of California riding. Hard to top Michigan but fair weather riders only get 5 months die hards 10-11, Just Ride classified borderline insane riders...365, 24/7. What is a little rain, sleet, snow, headwind out headwind back squall like ice sleet in the face all in the same ride got on us.

Ryan
West Michigan

[Matt]

I can't recommend the Ventura-Ojai path enough. It's completely car free from the beach to Ojai, with just a few hundred feet on streets coming out of Ventura, and it's very easy riding, no hills—it's an old rail line. It is 15 miles up to Ojai, so depending on your yahoos' appetite to ride, it might be a lot (especially on the 15 back) but it's so, so beautiful up there and Ojai is a great place to have lunch and spend the day at the farmer's market or at Bart's Books, which bills itself as the world's greatest outdoor bookstore and that's not an exaggeration (see pics).

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1X5c1gmsZRDzWy4MA

If you ever get there with people who want to ride for hours and like to climb dirt, you can veer off the path, cross 33 and go up Sulfur Mountain (then back down the other side, through Ojai the other way and return down the path to Ventura). It's unbelievably stunning up there because you can see clear to the ocean on one side and on the other across the Ojai valley to the Santa Ynez and the Topatopa moutains in Los Padres National Forest. I unfortunately didn't get a pic of that view last time I was up there but we did ride a short way off the trail and found an old bus completely burned out from the Thomas fire.

The only downside to the 15 miles of the path is there's not all that much between Ventura and the outskirts of Ojai. There's a park a few miles up with bathrooms and water, but there's nothing commercial until you get back into town.

[Leah Peterson]

O’Ryan of Michigan,

Surfing. This former citizen of God’s Country (ND/MN) has a deep and abiding irrational fear of Great White sharks. I have watched Shark Week for YEARS, and there is no going back; I cannot unknow what I know. And what I know is certain: they are waiting - with their soulless black eyes and rows of razor teeth - WAITING for me down there in the deep. So, this rules out surfing unless it’s in my swimming pool on a windy day. And so far that has met with poor results. Also on the list of irrational fears: flat tires, furniture shopping, and necrotizing fasciitis. But, the right boots to wear surfing would be ones with a wicked blade affixed to the toe for self-defense against the shark.

Back to bike trips.

So we all gathered at breakfast and J asked, “Well, did we decide what we’re going to do this weekend?” 

I did my best pitch. I emphasized BEACH TOWNS and OCEAN SIDE and COOL FOOD VENUES and casually mentioned there would be a little tiny bit of 40 miles of biking and I was met with silence and suspicion emanating from three pairs of eyes at the table. I could see them telepathically working together to thwart my 40 mile bike ride plans. Ganging up on me silently, that’s what they were doing. There comes a time when a woman knows she’s going to have to switch tactics. 

“You know what I’d really like for my birthday next month?” I said in a velvety voice. 

They were left defenseless. There was really no other option when I pulled out the birthday card.

“Can I rent one of those bikes with a motor on it?” asked J. 

I winced. “Ok,” I said, “so we just leave the Clem home?”

“No, we need the Clem for the pictures!” he said. “We’ll simply hide the e-bike and pose with the Clem.”

So, I am just going to strap the Clem to my rear rack. Because pictures are important! And also, family harmony.

So that, my friends, is the current plan. There’s a 3 day weekend coming in Feb, and I’m pointing my Bosco bull moose bars toward it. 

Sent from my iPad

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[BRETT ROBINSON]

I’ll second Irvine/Orange County. Irvine has a wonderful amount of paved trails you can ride. Don’t miss out on the back bay loop (part of the Mountains to Sea Trail). If you come to Orange County there’s also a boardwalk in Newport Beach that would be perfect as it’s flat and has ocean views the whole way, and Huntington Beach has a bike path along the ocean for the entire length of the city. There are also several “river trails” which are mostly trails next to a concrete aqueduct in Orange County and LA.

[Surlyprof]

I agree with Toshi’s route. Pretty classic SoCal ride and a very casual meander on protected bike trails. If you go the south direction, that takes you through Manhattan, Hermosa and Redondo Beach areas. Just south of that is the coast of Palos Verdes. That area is also nice but more quiet residential community. There is a one-street “downtown” that has a very nice coffee shop. A little bit farther south is the Wayfarers Chapel which is a beautiful mostly glass church designed by Frank Lloyd Wright. Worthwhile destination.

John “Design Geek for a Living” McClusky

[KC]

Somehow I missed seeing this. Since you have put the trip off until next month, I can add my suggestions. Consider coming out our direction and staying in San Diego.  

We love to park at Mission Bay and ride a loop there.  You can pick from several to provide varying distances depending on how the gang feels.  It is a flat ride. You can stop and play on the beach in the bay area (rent a paddle board, etc.). There is an area with tons of restaurants and you can spend some time at Belmont Park (and get a whopping huge ice cream there, which seems to be a popular reward for the recalcitrant riders).  You also have the opportunity to take the ferry from the harbor to Coronado Island. It feels so fun to roll the bike on for the short trip. When you get off, there are plenty of choices for a snack/lunch. Then you head off to a bike trail that goes along the water. You usually get to watch some Navy Seals climbing their course. When you get back to the harbor, it is a short distance to a shopping/eating area. Lots of bike rental places if someone wants to test out an e-bike. Or grab a Lime scooter.  

There is so much to do in the area, you can easily plan a day of doing things besides biking - Tour the Midway in the harbor, go to the zoo (but you would want to plan a day), go to Balboa Park, go to Sea World. My son and his wife went whale watching out of San Diego harbor yesterday and saw a calf and a juvenile. 

From San Diego you can also roll the bikes onto the Coaster and head up to one our beach towns for the day. 

[REC (Roberta)]

Imaging them having so much fun on this trip that they ask for all 3 day weekends to be biking/exploring ones in CA!  I hope they gave you an early birthday present by going this weekend.

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

The trip is scheduled for this weekend and there’s been a major, heart-breaking knick in the paint job of my beautiful plan. Is it the strep throat my older son got diagnosed with last night? No. It’s much worse than that; in fact, it’s so bad, I’m liable to be kicked off this List. And it’s all because I was trying to accommodate (read: manipulate) the yahoos.

I have decided we’re going to do that Marvin Braude path (also called The Strand). It is flat and 20 miles long, and it goes through several beaches/beach towns - what could be better? The problem is that my husband would never ride 20 miles, flat land or not. I’m one step ahead of him, so I offered him an e-bike, which is a diet-motorcycle (like a motorcycle, but without the guilt!), which is the stuff his dreams are made of. There’s a rental place near the beginning of The Strand, and for the nominal fee of $24, he can have the diet motorcycle for the entire day. Sold. He’s all in. Then he notices they have rentals for children. “Hey, L!” he called to my younger son. “Do you want an e-bike?! It’s like a motorcycle!”

Well. I had noticed this too, and had thought it may make sense for my younger son. He’s only 10, and he doesn’t have the luxurious Rivendell ride like the other 3 of us. But if you get one for one son, you are going to have to offer it to the other. And this is the crisis which I am now having. I had imagined lovely, beach-front photos with our fleet of Rivendells, lugged and lovely, doing exactly what they were created to do, and in their homeland. I had hoped that we might run into other folks on Rivendells, maybe even some of you, and we could meet in real life and it would be so grand.

Instead, we may be pictured with one lovely Rivendell among the warts that are the e-bikes. I can’t put those pictures on this List! I don’t want them on next year’s family calendar!

So, I am essentially a hostage to the e-bikes. The yahoos will go along with 40 miles of bike riding if they can do it with a motor. Do I want to have a good ride or do I want to have the Rivendell bike experience? YES. So, you see how I’m stuck. My older son, the Clem Rider, says we are taking his Clem. He does truly love his bike. But I have a feeling when his dad and brother are zipping around all effortless with Cheshire cat grins, he will go over to the dark and electrified side.

Why are they like this?!?
Leah

[Joe Bernard]

Rivendells? Ebikes??! 😋

[sameness]

If you want to shave some time off the trip, I'd start near the middle at Marina Del Rey and take that up to Will Rogers. 

Nothing against starting from the south end, but the stretch from Manhattan Beach up to Playa Del Rey is somewhat unspectacular unless you like airports and oil refineries. 

There are bike rental places near Washington and Pacific at the Venice/MDR border. 

Let me know if you'd like some more Westside intel?

Jeff Hagedorn

Los Angeles, CA USA

[Bill Schairer]

If the trip is to be postponed due to illness, I wouldn’t fret too much. I’m in San Diego but I think So. Ca. Is to be wet and chilly this weekend. Might want to postpone anyway.

Bill

[Joe Bernard]

She does have one very narrow window of opportunity. My phone says rain Friday and Sunday in Los Angeles, mostly sunny and 59 Saturday.

[Justin, Oakland]

I say let them eat cake! What's better: enjoying the outdoors with happy people on wart-bikes or "enjoying" the outdoors with grumpy kids on beautiful bikes and others on wart-bikes and...

-j

[Leah Peterson]

Justin, I LAUGHED. So true. Let them eat cake! There’s a pop song and the chorus is “I keep on hoping we’ll eat cake by the ocean.” 

Weather. I know! I see Saturday as our one chance, and I am nervous it isn’t going to work out, but we’ll see how it goes tomorrow before we leave. If I cancel it will be a few weeks before I could get back that way. Hoping for sun! 

Sent from my iPhone

[Joe Bernard]

The problem is hubby is about to discover ebikes. Whoops! 😁

[Kathy Carroll]

But if that gets him wanting to ride as much as she does it's win-win. And think what good shape she'll be in cuz he'll want to keep on riding, at least til his rear is killing him. 

On Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 10:20 AM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com wrote:

The problem is hubby is about to discover ebikes. Whoops! 😁

[Leah Peterson]

Thanks, Jeff. I would have made the mistake of starting at the beginning. I will take your advice because I don’t really want the airport and oil refinery views! What other intel are you harboring???

Sent from my iPad

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[Deacon Patrick]

Och! Well. You do whatchagootado. Get the yahoos out and moving, if only somewhat, on their own power. Maybe they’ll discover, through embarrasment at seeing you do the same thing fully human powered, and their own motion, that 1) moving is good; 2) human power is superior to wimpy suplimented power in many ways (no need to waste time in the gym — human power is the ultimate multitask while only doing a single task. Grin.

A word of caution, if the yahoos are weather wimps, do not push it. Better to do less and help them hunger for more than try for more and make them miserably regret not doing less. Grin.

I’ve yet to see the electric non-sense where I ride, but I’m sure it is coming. “Where’s your motor?” “On the saddle.” Look of slowly dawning comprehension and disbelief. “Whoa. Old school.” (actual conversations that started “Where are your gears?” and “Where are your shocks?” and “You can’t ride here with those tires!”, modified for the future ebike encounter).

At least ebikes are quieter than the bizzare loutes without earbuds blasting their music like it’s the 80’s boom box boom. Sigh. Grin.

Whatever you do, enjoy your time with the family!

With abadnon,
Patrick

[sameness]

There's just more... stuff to do and see once you get into Venice and on up into Santa Monica. If you make it to the Santa Monica Pier and the rain starts coming down, you're in the Third Street Promenade area, shops and restaurants abound. 

I live and work on the Westside, and in fact just came back from adjacent the bike path north of the pier, so feel free to hit me up off-list if you would like any recommendations on what to do around here. My email address is my user name at Gmail dot etc.

Jeff Hagedorn

Los Angeles, CA USA

[Joe Bernard]

I did The pier to Venice and back on a folder a couple years ago. That's a nice flat ride and not terribly long, if memory serves. Jeff, how many miles would you say it is one way?

[Joe Bernard]

Right, I can Google it. 3 miles each way. Hey Leah, no ebikes!

[sameness]

It's probably about eight miles from the Marina basins to where the bike path runs out at Will Rogers, but you can poop out and turn around at any point north of the Santa Monica Pier without missing much once the novelty of riding next to the Pacific Coast Highway wears off.

[Leah Peterson]

Today’s the day! The first challenge was me loading these bikes with no assistance. I only had two to take, and I decided if I could cram them into the van, I would, and leave the rack home. I could be wrong, but they feel safer inside my vehicle. I slammed the handlebars of the Betz and started futzing.

Even though that Clem is little, it is long! 

I tried this, but their rears stuck out. Unloaded them again.

Finally! And there is room for the suitcases. See that Shop Sack? It’s my hair/make up bag. I’m sure it’s the only one of its kind.

Last thing. I caught my husband shopping for e-bikes last night. Like a betrayal. At breakfast he asked me, “How much do you think I could get if I sold my Clem?” And then I knew; it all made sense. I don’t think I could ever forgive him...

And we’re off!

Leah

Sent from my iPhone

--

[Bill Schairer]

If you leave those in the van unattended I would try to lock them to something in the van. I had a bike stolen out of a friend’s Honda Element with tinted windows in broad daylight in Long Beach.

Bill S

[Patrick Moore]

Add one of these to the Clem:

https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/1/16379278/copenhagen-wheel-connected-bike-review

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 3:42 PM Leah Peterson <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:...

[Leah Peterson]

We had the best time biking the Marvin Braude bike path on Saturday! The rains hammered Los Angeles on Friday night, but by morning it was clear skies and sunny, perfect for our purposes.

I brought my 55 cm Betty Foy and my 12 year old boy brought his 45 Clem H. My husband loves a motorcycle and not so much a bicycle, so we rented him an e-bike, and because my other son is little and wouldn’t make the length of the trail, we got the TANDEM E-BIKE. Yes, I said tandem. We rented it from Pedego in Marina del Rey, and the owners would only charge us $50 instead of their normal $100 - such nice folks.

[islaysteve]

This seems like the best possible outcome for you and your family.  So glad that it worked out, after all of this planning and discussion!  Enjoy the rest of your stay in California!

[Patrick Moore]

It sounds like an idyllic family vacation, well, apart from the cluelessness on the bike path. See below for an effective remedy.

I've never ridden a Clem, but based on the 5 other Rivs I've ridden, just perhaps you could try to convince your husband to get a nice electric wheel or other conversion system -- Joe Bernard of this list is an expert on this, I think. Sad to think of a Clem going south because it lacks electric assist.

For a while, when I commuted across town, I used one of these pump 'n' fill air horns; I found them useful for the spaced-out on bike paths; alas, not so much for SUV drivers hermetically sealed in their vehicles with AC and stereo on Full, so I gave up on it. But if you are walking in open air, it will wake you up very quickly. Of course, the principal benefit of such an air horn is for the user; there are kinder, more gentle ways to nudge clueless pedestrians.

https://www.amazon.com/Delta-Cycle-Airzound-Hooter-Rechargeable/dp/B000ACAMJC

Patrick "it *is* the Sunday of the publican and pharisee" Moore

On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 5:38 PM Leah Peterson <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

We had the best time biking the Marvin Braude bike path on Saturday! The rains hammered Los Angeles on Friday night, but by morning it was clear skies and sunny, perfect for our purposes.

I brought my 55 cm Betty Foy and my 12 year old boy brought his 45 Clem H. My husband loves a motorcycle and not so much a bicycle, so we rented him an e-bike, and because my other son is little and wouldn’t make the length of the trail, we got the TANDEM E-BIKE. Yes, I said tandem. We rented it from Pedego in Marina del Rey, and the owners would only charge us $50 instead of their normal $100 - such nice folks.

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We had the absolute best time. We pedaled through beach after beach, soaking up sun and smiling like idiots. We stopped to collect sea shells and watch the boys play in the waves. You couldn’t ask for prettier scenery, and the weather was nearly perfect. I refused to be parted from our Riv bikes, and though I had brought 4 u-locks for 2 bikes, I still pushed them through ankle-deep sand to the beach so I could keep them in sight. I’ve been told I’m embarrassing. Whatever.

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The path is supposed to be exclusively for cyclers (though there are some sections of it that are shared use), but we ended up sharing the bike path with e-scooters and runners and the occasional walker. I gotta say THAT was annoying. Finally a place for bikes, but we had interlopers to contend with. If you were going to break the rules and use the bike path as your jogging/walking/e-scootering path, wouldn’t you at least hug the edge and leave room for the bikes to go by? An astounding number of these folks couldn’t be bothered to let the bikes pass, and I watched cyclers ring their bells and sometimes it had no effect on the people using the bike lane illegally. They held their ground and the bikes were forced to wait until they could safely pass the pedestrians. Ugh. One or two did this to me, so I blasted both my bells at them. It was a small victory. We were wondering how many wrecks there are on the Marvin Braude - it’s wild out there. Add dogs and kids to the mix and you really have to have your wits about you. We had one skateboarder who kicked out too far and hit the rear wheel of the tandem, but she was fine. The Clem Rider and I had no trouble at all; the path was flat and made for easy biking - such a treat after the hills we are used to battling at home.

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I had a bad attitude about the e-bike initially. I wanted the Rivendell bikes in the photos, I’m a purist, and thus I was heavily prejudiced. But I kept it to myself. I will eat humble pie here, though, because that e-bike was really a good time. It kept my family going and there was no complaining about “HOW many more miles?” because it was such a fun ride. In a surprising turn of events, my husband returned his bike and then immediately started looking online for e-bikes. It’s what he did when we were back at the hotel for the night. It was what he was doing while I was getting ready this morning. It was what he did all 4.5 hours from the passenger seat of our drive home. It’s what he is STILL doing even as I type this. He’s got it narrowed down to a few models, and none of them is his Clem. He wants a bike dedicated to being electric; he won’t consider rigging up his Clem. I don’t know what he plans to do with the Clem yet; I was hoping to keep it for when my boys get big, but he may sell it. I’m warming up to the e-bike because it means I’m going to get a riding partner. Sure I’ll miss our matching bikes and looking lovingly at that big, blue bike on our evening constitutionals. But we can cover some real ground if he’s got an e-bike because it will actually be fun for him to go. My consolation prize will be companionship and better quads than his, so there.

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Thanks to all of you for the information you shared with me - this was one of our best CA weekends in living memory. You guys and gals are THE best.

Leah

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------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Still 'round the corner there may wait
A new road or a secret gate,
And though we pass them by today,
Tomorrow we may come this way
And take the hidden paths that run
Towards the Moon or to the Sun.

                                --- J.R.R. Tolkien

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique

[REC (Roberta)]

For some reason, I got Leah's full and exciting and happy report on my phone, but I only see the partial one here.  Leah--how lucky you can be if J is willing to ride with you, albeit on an ebike.  At least you'll be with you sweetie.  And, it sounds like it was such a great weekend for everyone, perhaps every three day weekend could be exploring a different area on two wheels! 

Roberta 

Here is her full report:

On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 5:38 PM Leah Peterson <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

We had the best time biking the Marvin Braude bike path on Saturday! The rains hammered Los Angeles on Friday night, but by morning it was clear skies and sunny, perfect for our purposes.

I brought my 55 cm Betty Foy and my 12 year old boy brought his 45 Clem H. My husband loves a motorcycle and not so much a bicycle, so we rented him an e-bike, and because my other son is little and wouldn’t make the length of the trail, we got the TANDEM E-BIKE. Yes, I said tandem. We rented it from Pedego in Marina del Rey, and the owners would only charge us $50 instead of their normal $100 - such nice folks.

We had the absolute best time. We pedaled through beach after beach, soaking up sun and smiling like idiots. We stopped to collect sea shells and watch the boys play in the waves. You couldn’t ask for prettier scenery, and the weather was nearly perfect. I refused to be parted from our Riv bikes, and though I had brought 4 u-locks for 2 bikes, I still pushed them through ankle-deep sand to the beach so I could keep them in sight. I’ve been told I’m embarrassing. Whatever.

The path is supposed to be exclusively for cyclers (though there are some sections of it that are shared use), but we ended up sharing the bike path with e-scooters and runners and the occasional walker. I gotta say THAT was annoying. Finally a place for bikes, but we had interlopers to contend with. If you were going to break the rules and use the bike path as your jogging/walking/e-scootering path, wouldn’t you at least hug the edge and leave room for the bikes to go by? An astounding number of these folks couldn’t be bothered to let the bikes pass, and I watched cyclers ring their bells and sometimes it had no effect on the people using the bike lane illegally. They held their ground and the bikes were forced to wait until they could safely pass the pedestrians. Ugh. One or two did this to me, so I blasted both my bells at them. It was a small victory. We were wondering how many wrecks there are on the Marvin Braude - it’s wild out there. Add dogs and kids to the mix and you really have to have your wits about you. We had one skateboarder who kicked out too far and hit the rear wheel of the tandem, but she was fine. The Clem Rider and I had no trouble at all; the path was flat and made for easy biking - such a treat after the hills we are used to battling at home.
 

I had a bad attitude about the e-bike initially. I wanted the Rivendell bikes in the photos, I’m a purist, and thus I was heavily prejudiced. But I kept it to myself. I will eat humble pie here, though, because that e-bike was really a good time. It kept my family going and there was no complaining about “HOW many more miles?” because it was such a fun ride. In a surprising turn of events, my husband returned his bike and then immediately started looking online for e-bikes. It’s what he did when we were back at the hotel for the night. It was what he was doing while I was getting ready this morning. It was what he did all 4.5 hours from the passenger seat of our drive home. It’s what he is STILL doing even as I type this. He’s got it narrowed down to a few models, and none of them is his Clem. He wants a bike dedicated to being electric; he won’t consider rigging up his Clem. I don’t know what he plans to do with the Clem yet; I was hoping to keep it for when my boys get big, but he may sell it. I’m warming up to the e-bike because it means I’m going to get a riding partner. Sure I’ll miss our matching bikes and looking lovingly at that big, blue bike on our evening constitutionals. But we can cover some real ground if he’s got an e-bike because it will actually be fun for him to go. My consolation prize will be companionship and better quads than his, so there.

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Roberta, how weird - you’re right - thanks for catching that! Google Groups is showing only a small bit of what I wrote. If you get the email in your response, I guess you see the entirety of what I wrote. Refer to Roberta’s copy and paste, everyone. 😊

Yes, if he gets an e-bike, there will be adventures in store. He’s still researching and already having second thoughts. E-bikes are crazy expensive, and at that price point, he could have a motorcycle instead. But he can’t ride that with the rest of us, so the pull for the e-bike is still present. We’ll see!

[Deacon Patrick]

Or ... Bonus ... buy a motorcycle, keep the Clem and ride with the family when it is riding time? I’m no help here, just scratching my head in bewilderment at the appeal of an ebike. Have we REALLY become so wimpy and weak? Shrug.

But, as you wisely point out, it made the day possible ... together ... and that is the highest priority, and a beautiful one, worth settling for ebikes even, to make it possible. Grin.

Well done, and well done mama Riv bear protecting your charges ... and your kids! Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

[Joe Bernard]

His best bet is a kit on his Clem, which I can verify is an excellent platform for an e-conversion. I'm sure there's someone in town who could build it for him.

[Joe Bernard]

"..scratching my head in bewilderment at the appeal of an ebike. Have we REALLY become so wimpy and weak?"

The problem is assuming everybody has to enjoy bicycles the way we do. Ebikes provide a fun way to get around for people who either can't or don't want to pedal as much as most of us do. From the pics I've seen Leah's dude looks pretty fit, so I don't think it's a matter of strength there, it's just not his thing. He seems happy to pedal along a couple miles, and if you toss in a bigger trip he'd rather have some power or not go at all.

Is that right or wrong? Nope, it's just where his interests lie. I'd rather see the guy bridge the gap from Leah's bike to e-assist than go find a motorcycle. Is my opinion.

[Leah Peterson]

Could be the solution to buy the motorcycle and keep the Clem.

I’d abstain from calling him wimpy or weak. Biking isn’t his thing; he grew up on a farm and they rode motorcycles and snowmobiles. If biking isn’t your passion, it’s not your passion. His passion lies in his field of work, and he exerts maximum effort and brainpower there, and is nationally-recognized for his efforts. If the man wants an e-bike, he can have it. And if he wants a motorcycle, he can have that, too. And I’ll ride on the back of it.

Sent from my iPad

[Deacon Patrick]

Excellent! My apologies for my blunt head scratching.

With abandon,
Patrick

[Leah Peterson]

All is well!

Sent from my iPad

[Abcyclehank]

Leah,
Although I love the variety of riding my multitude of bikes (mostly Rivendells) provide.
I confess to the joy a simple boost that an e-bike provides. I fully expect to own one someday. I see your husband’s logic about a fully designed one from the ground up. Expensive is the correct word there to buy a quality one is $3999 up. Hence is likely second guessing. To double your riding joy with the man you love I suggest you consider advising him to consider a demo model. Just like Rivendell offers some great deals on their floor models this is especially true of e-bike stores. I have also last years models cleared out down to seen 1/2 price (think new car models). Often subtle to know difference but buyers often want the latest year model or the automobile financing favors it.
A high quality bike like a Rivendell may be simply converted with a high quality hub based boost. (Copenhagen is a high end one, bionex midrange). This is the route I will likely go because because Rivendell is one of the few companies that satisfies my size requirement. Most e-bikes max out at 60cm for a XXL which is laughable to riders my size.
I will give you personal feedback in about a month after I visit California for the NAHBS and ride a Copenhagen converted Rosco Bubbe Jumbo Mountain Mixte.
Regardless spending quality time over the next 5-10 years with your supportive husband will be important and necessary is your sons lives get busier in HS and they have even less time for an amazing mother like you.
My vote is for a wheel if my report comes back as glowing as I expect it to; plus a nice little motorcycle 🏍 to boot. Neither is better than the other, they are each different enough, and cover both of your bases. Bicycling for you + cycling for him = Win-Win.

Sincerely,
Ryan “provider of free life and marriage advice that is rarely if ever solicitated” Hankinson
West Michigan

[Kathy Carroll]

We are going to convert our bikes in the next couple weeks with a front hub motor. We need a boost to get out of the hills easily where we live now. I love my Cheviot and that let's me keep riding a great bike. 

[Leah Peterson]

Ryan, are you really converting a Rosco?! That is so exciting! I think your idea has true merit; he really wants both things; so I will look further into the Copenhagen/Bionex thing. I know where his head is at - if he’s spending so much on the e-bike, he should get the motorcycle, but then he’ll have to ride it sans the rest of the family, and then he won’t ride it much. My father in law and my husband had motorcycles and rode together; I’m sure he misses it dearly (his dad died unexpectedly in 2010).  Riding bikes has really been a compromise for the benefit of having us all together. But he would enjoy it more if it had a motor. Some folks are like that! I’m so excited for you - have you ever been to RBW HQ? I really hope you’re planning to take a lot of photos and provide a lengthy report back here. 

Kathy, will you keep us in the loop as well? I’d love to see how your bikes turn out. I sympathize about the hills - they keep people off the bikes here and it’s a shame. I have two girlfriends who will ride with me only if the weather is perfect. They are athletes and aren’t afraid of the hills, but the other 99% of people are. I’d love to see more folks out on bike, motor or not.

Cheers!

Leah

Sent from my iPad

[dougP]

Leah:

This is February.  Imagine that bike path in the summer.  Add in kids out of school, headed to the water with surfboards, boogie boards, coolers, etc.  On weekends families use the bike path as a "staging area" for their beach camping gear.  Giant coolers, easy ups, tent things, grills, etc.  They like to unload the car onto the bike path, then schlepp everything down to the sand.  :You had a great day, considering we've all been cooped up it-seems-forever by cold & rain.  Let the sun peak out for a few hours & we're out the door.

BTW, if you do an Orange County trip in the future, Pedego has stores in Irvine & Newport.  The Irvine one is conveniently located on the San Diego Creek bike trail, which will take you down to the Newport Back Bay. 

dougP

[Keith Weaver]

I have to admit that I'm also an e-bike owner. I put a Bafang mid-drive conversion kit on my XO-3. It's a lot of fun, and lets me do my 12-mile (one-way) commute on days when high temps or high winds would otherwise discourage me from riding. 

If you have a frame/bike you already like, one of these kits can be a great option. I'd recommend researching mid-drives vs hub motors, as each has their pros and cons. I have noticed that the majority of new e-bikes I see use mid-drives. A purpose-built e-bike will have the benefits of  cleaner cabling and may be more secure in terms of reducing the chances of the battery being stolen. But, you will pay a fair bit extra to get the good quality component level you already have on his Rivendell.

Cheers,

Keith

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[Kathy Carroll]

Keith, I am interested in your input. I don't want to spend what I know I would end up spending for a purpose-built e-bike. And I really don't want another bike. I have 3 right now that I can justify my reason for each, but that's more than enough for me. Plus my husband and I are equally matched so we can ride together. Whatever decision I make, it looks like he will follow.

I love my Cheviot and want to ride it. My husband likes his "main" bike too.  I have decided on the front hub because it seems like a reasonable way to go - I think we can install ourselves, we can also easily remove if we want. I love to bike and don't want to coast along. We have an 11% (per the website I used to calculate) grade facing us immediately as we leave our driveway. That's enough to keep us from just grabbing the bike and taking off - we just need a boost to get us easily on our way. The rest of the time, I want to feel like I'm riding.

The 650B wheel size limits some of my easy options, but I found a company I think will work. Interested in input.

 

On 2/18/2019 6:16 PM, Keith Weaver wrote:

I have to admit that I'm also an e-bike owner. I put a Bafang mid-drive conversion kit on my XO-3. It's a lot of fun, and lets me do my 12-mile (one-way) commute on days when high temps or high winds would otherwise discourage me from riding. 

If you have a frame/bike you already like, one of these kits can be a great option. I'd recommend researching mid-drives vIt swes hub motors, as each has their pros and cons. I have noticed that the majority of new e-bikes I see use mid-drives. A purpose-built e-bike will have the benefits of  cleaner cabling and may be more secure in terms of reducing the chances of the battery being stolen. But, you will pay a fair bit extra to get the good quality component level you already have on his Rivendell.C

Cheers,

Keith

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[Joe Bernard]

KC, one caveat I'll throw out there right away is most front hub motors seem sized for slightly larger dropouts than Riv forks use. I also have a bit of trepidation about how slim the blades are.

Those front hub motors are not a good candidate for Rivs, in my opinion, plus in general are overpriced for what you get. I think mid-drives or that Copenhagen thing are the way to go.

[KC]

Good input Joe. I know you were steering me to the mid-drive and using it on the Groove. I guess I still have too much to learn to place an order. The people who we bought our house from had solved their problem with a front hub and were happy with it as far as doing what they needed from it - getting up the one big hill. I tested, by accident, a really nice e-bike a couple years ago. I didn't like the feel of  the pedal assist. It was fun to see what the bike could do. I just want to put on a little power when I really need it. I really liked that bike, but it was overkill for what I need and way too much money. 

I know you put a kit on a bike and then took it off to sell it. Must have been a mid-drive, so maybe it's simpler than it looks to me.  Doug P gave me the name of someone that does mid-drives (they want to see the bike) and I also spent quite a bit of time on the Luna website that I think you referred me to. I've been wanting to load up the bikes and go talk to the people at Luna so I guess it is time to do that. And then we can have a nice day riding that bike trail. We've done it a couple of times with friends that live a block away and we owe them a visit.

  

Then, I'll have to rethink the "not a 4th bike" idea and consider the Rad folder that has also been recommended by someone on the list. Leah, you may want to look into that one for your husband. 

[Joe Bernard]

Yes, the front hub kit does work for some folks if you just want a little throttle over a hill, it just isn't great on Rivs..they fit big, chunky steel cruiser/rigid-mtb forks better.

Mid-drive is simple to install if you're familiar with it, but not as dead simple as swapping wheels on a fork. Basically you gotta get that motor into the BB shell (replacing cranks, front derailer and shifter), then plug it into the harnesses to bar controls and battery.

The tough question is how much you'll actually ride without power. In my experience the goal of only using assist on big hills quickly turns into the realization that your bike is now significantly heavier and has some drag. It ends up just making more sense to pedal in PAS 1 on the flats, which a throttle-only hub won't do. What about always using a bit of throttle? I tried that and it nearly cracked my wrist of..pedaling while holding down a thumb switch was NOT fun.

Sorry if I'm offering more obstacles than solutions, but it's kinda my duty as the eRiv guy to help people skip some of the (very expensive) learning curve I was on. Good luck!

[Kathy Carroll]

I appreciate it. May test the rad. No more money than conversion.

[Joe Bernard]

I'd buy that Rad Mini now if I got back into ebikes. Kinda wish I did instead of about 7 other experiments I tried.

[Patrick Moore]

Joe: Any opinion about the Copenhagen Wheel? It has good reviews and (IMO) aesthetically might go nicely with a Riv.

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[Patrick Moore]

Imagination careering out of control, but I could see all sorts of custom paint jobs on that big, Copenhagen Wheel disk ...

[Joe Bernard]

I have no experience with it, but it looks like simple way to covert a bike.

[sameness]

I'm glad you had a good time out here and that the generally cooperative weather actually cooperated last week. I was out of town but by all reports Saturday was a sunny ol' SoCal beach day. 

And yeah, I forgot to mention, "bike path" is something of a broad spectrum catch-all around here. Everything and everyone uses it as they see fit, in varying degrees and measures of speed, spatial awareness, and common courtesy.

But hey, what's a day in LA without getting irate at the traffic?

Jeff Hagedorn

Los Angeles, CA USA

[Leah Peterson]

Jeff, do you know what I did? I decided to take you up on your offer of insider information and I emailed you to ask about a hip coffee place to start our day at. I sent it to the wrong email address, so who knows who got my request - I never heard back. I did manage to find my way to Intelligentsia and that was absolutely amazing. I wanted to stop everyone I met that day and ask, “Did you start out your day with a rose petal on YOUR croissant? No? Well, that’s too bad.” I don’t usually have carbs for breakfast, but I will gladly make an exception for this place! No regrets. Thanks for the help you gave me - I vastly enjoyed myself, traffic or not. Cheers!

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[sameness]

Aww, too bad I missed it. Just checked my spam, definitely wasn't me, ha. Next time! 

And yeah, if you went to the Intelligentsia on Abbott Kinney, I'd be confounded if you didn't see another Riv in the neighborhood, it's a little... hip around there.

Jeff Hagedorn

Los Angeles, CA USA