Re: [RBW] Betty Foy and Red Brooks

[PATRICK MOORE]

Only

On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 2:43 PM, LeahFoy <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Welcome! The initiation for new listmembers requires posting exquisite photos of their Rivendells. Please do so.

 

what is your opinion about swapping for the red? Will it look too matchy? Would you tire of seeing a cherry red Brooks? Should the more sensible honey color prevail? 

Photos would help. Personally, I think Brooks Honey would go very well with a red frame, but so would a red saddle. 

I myself am not particularly careful about matching colors, but I do like to see photos of well matched bikes. A honey Brooks with honey bar wrap .... ?

--

http://resumespecialties.com/index.html

patric...@resumespecialties.com

Albuquerque, NM

[Brian Hanson]

I vote red!  Saddle matching is the new bag matching.  I have a blue B17 on one bike, and like the matchy aspect.

Brian

Seattle, WA

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[Bruce Herbitter]

Red saddles look great on many bikes.  Go for it!  When I built up a repainted bike a while back, a friend donated some Brooks green bar tape. Naturally, I had to get a green B17 to match....

On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 3:43 PM, LeahFoy <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi, All!

 I'm Leah, and I'm happy to have discovered you!

In November I managed to get my paws on my very own Rivendell Betty Foy. She's the completely perfect answer to my cycling needs. I slapped a gorgeous Brooks B68 in honey on her and it's been great. But yesterday I made the mistake of tooling around on the Brooks site and discovered that they now make a RED B 17...and it would be the exact red that all the decals and fill-ins on the lugwork are. If fit isn't a consideration, what is your opinion about swapping for the red? Will it look too matchy? Would you tire of seeing a cherry red Brooks? Should the more sensible honey color prevail? My other saddle could go to my dad, who is currently suffering with his stock Specialized saddle, so no waste there... I'd love your opinions, so thanks ahead of time!

Leah

[David Spranger]

The Betty Foy owner in the household votes to leave the honey saddle. I vote red as I have done the color matching thing with a blue brooks saddle that perfectly matches the brake cables and headset spacers on my SimpleOne.

David

Charlotte, NC

[René Sterental]

Go red! Objective advice from someone who matches green Brooks saddle and bar tape to his green bags on his pewter Hunqapillar!

René 

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[Lyle Bogart]

Welcome, Leah! Ooooh, go red! And I'm not a matchy person (as my socks will attest!) but I think a red brooks on a Betty would look great. . . plus your dad needs a different saddle, right? :-)

Cheers!

lyle

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156 bradford rd

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207.882.6494

206.794.6937

[Philip Williamson]

Welcome! And red saddle for sure. I still enjoy seeing the green saddle on my green Quickbeam after 9 years.

Philip
www.biketinker.com

[bwphoto]

Go red and while you're at it get some cool red foot ware along with red bottle cages and blue bottles...why stop with the saddle? Then of course lots of pictures.

[Deacon Patrick]

Welcome!

Are you aware of how differently the B17 rides than the B68? The B17 can be too narrow for a more upright position, which I presume you have on the Betty? An upright position has us sitting on the wider part of our sit bones, so saddle width makes a big difference. Aside from that, I haven't an opinion one way or the other. Go for what gives you delight, first to ride, second to look upon.

With abandon,
Patrick

[djbardwil]

I went through the same debate with a Brooks B17 Electric Blue saddle for my Atlantis - it matched the lettering outline perfectly.  I added some chainstay wrap in blue to touch it off and am very happy with the results. If you like it, go for it!  There is no wrong answer in personlizing. 

[Jimmy Hutch]

Rock the red!

The fact that you asked makes the answer self evident.

-Jimmy

[Bruce Herbitter]

Not to mention that the B-17 comes in a lady's model as well

[LeahFoy]

Cool, my posts and pics made it through moderation! Now those of you who wanted to see Betty and her honey saddle can give me your most honest and informed opinion on a red B17. Also, tell me if you see the bars being too high for that saddle... Thanks!

[bobish]

I ride upright with a- bars and I love the b-68 and b-68s saddles. The size and shape would be my first priority over color. Even if it was the same saddle and color was the only difference, I might still have a slight preference for the honey (all my b-68 saddles are honey).

That said, you can only know if the b-17 will work for you if you try it. And personal style is well, personal. If the red floats your boat, go for it. One nice thing about this list is that if you decide to go back to the b-68, you'll find a buyer for the red b-17 here and it will go to a old home where it will be appreciated.

Perry

[Bruce Herbitter]

Your pictures show a very comfortable looking seating position. I would ride with slightly higher bars, but that's just personal taste. A red saddle, either Brooks or Selle Anatomica (a great choice for instantly comfortable sans break in) would look nice.

On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 1:51 AM, LeahFoy <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Cool, my posts and pics made it through moderation! Now those of you who wanted to see Betty and her honey saddle can give me your most honest and informed opinion on a red B17. Also, tell me if you see the bars being too high for that saddle... Thanks!

[Deacon Patrick]

One of the many great things about Rivendells is they are made to try many and various set-ups so you can find the one you like. I took over a year to get my saddle/handlebar position worked out. There are so many variables, I would change one (tilt of the seat or handlebars or slid the seat all the way back then forward, for example) and ride with it till something got uncomfortable (sometimes 30 seconds, a few times not until hour seven on day 3 of a tour), then I tried what I thought would fix it, and see it I was comfortable longer. I'm not at all mechanically inclined, so this was me getting to play in an entirely new space and it was grand fun. It's pretty dialed in now, and if someone snuck in at night and readjusted it all, I'd be able to dial it in a lot quicker than a year from now because I learned a lot about how everything relates to how it feels in the saddle.

Go for the B-17 saddle. Play with adjusting it. Forward, aft, tilt, height, handlebar height, tilt. They all interelate. Shift one, and you think, "Oooo. Now I gotta shift the saddle forward." swap it back and forth with the B-68. You'll have a grand time, and learn it's OK to play with your bike. She likes it. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

[LeahFoy]

Well...I got a lot of "Go red!" votes and decided to cruise on over to wallbike.com to snatch the saddle and lo and behold - sold out! I shot them an email to see when they get more. They have a very generous 6 month return policy, and I purchased my other Brooks from them, so will wait until I can purchase from them again.

Love getting all the feedback; my husband rides a Target Schwinn and simply cannot understand all the obsession with my bike. And nobody else I know can, either. In fact, when I got my Riv I gleefully waited for other cyclists to realize the rare beauty I was riding was a real Riv, but alas, no one has ever noticed! And though I look for them in the wild, I have never seen any. I thought for sure I would, since I live in SoCal. Anyway, it's great to have found like-minded folks! Thanks!

[Montclair BobbyB]

Sorry Betty, but we may need to rename this one "Leah Foy".  It looks great on you and your family, Leah.

I would seriously consider Deacon Patrick's advice.  I love the B17 (and own more than I care to admit), but it's not as comfortable as the B68 or B67 (sprung version) in my opinion.  And with age the honey gets more beautiful (IMO). Stick with comfort... you'll be glad you did.   

Peace,
BB

[cyclotourist]

It is a lovely bike, and the red B17 will look great on it it, I hope it fits you as well.

You will probably have to be content with appreciate comments over the internet, as other than that anything more than the occasional "How old is that bike?" comment are few and far between IRL.

Thread hijack alert!!!! ---->>>

That said, maybe us Sureños can get together for a lugged steel bicycle parade at the next CicLAvia on June 23rd????

<<<----

Cheers,
David

On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 8:08 AM, LeahFoy <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Well...I got a lot of "Go red!" votes and decided to cruise on over to wallbike.com to snatch the saddle and lo and behold - sold out! I shot them an email to see when they get more. They have a very generous 6 month return policy, and I purchased my other Brooks from them, so will wait until I can purchase from them again.

Love getting all the feedback; my husband rides a Target Schwinn and simply cannot understand all the obsession with my bike. And nobody else I know can, either. In fact, when I got my Riv I gleefully waited for other cyclists to realize the rare beauty I was riding was a real Riv, but alas, no one has ever noticed! And though I look for them in the wild, I have never seen any. I thought for sure I would, since I live in SoCal. Anyway, it's great to have found like-minded folks! Thanks!

[Deacon Patrick]

Several tangential thoughts in response to what's been said above...

I have brain injury and constant neurological vertigo (among other "fun"). I hadn't ridden a bicycle (except for occasional trying to see how it and my vertigo got along) since the end of 2002. Late last winter, I tried a bike again. It worked! But only for a few tenths of a mile (a cheep folder my wife had). I wondered if a bike sized for me would work better. Borrowed a friends steel Schwinn and made it 3 miles before my brain said no further, knucklehead! Kitting our daughters for rides, I ended up with an old Trek that was too small, but we Rivendelled it up with Albatross handlebars and tires. Now I could go 8 miles. Was I simply improving or was it the bikes? I rode the Schwinn again. 3 miles only. It was the bikes. All this time I'd been researching and was impressed by Grant's approach and decided to take a leap of faith and get a Hunqapillar. I've spent many 6+ hour days in the saddle, done countless overnights and a few tours, one that lasted 9 days. The bike matters.

Having said all that, I've no idea what my second point was (no short term memory is part of the fun). I'll post it separate if something jogs it loose.

With abandon,
Patrick

[Deacon Patrick]

Ahhh ha! Looking though the threads, I got it. Hip position. When you get your B17, play around with the tilt of your pelvic girdle (by flattening or excentuating the curve of your lower back). This will help you find what riding position is most comfortable for each saddle.

WIth abandon,
Patrick

[René Sterental]

Tilting a B17 is the key to riding it comfortably. Irrespective of how it looks. A dual bolt post that can let you tweak the inclination by a quarter turn of one bolt is a must. 

René 

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[Steve Palincsar]

On Sun, 2013-05-12 at 16:51 -0700, René Sterental wrote:
> Tilting a B17 is the key to riding it comfortably. Irrespective of how
> it looks. A dual bolt post that can let you tweak the inclination by a
> quarter turn of one bolt is a must.

Agree 100%. 2-bolt posts are great, and setting the correct angle is
very important with the B.17.

[LeahFoy]

I've never heard of such a thing! All this time I've been wrenching on my current saddle with an Allen key, adjusting it a millimeter this way or that. There is actually some better contraption out there?

[cyclotourist]

Nitto:  http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/sp2.htm

Paul: http://www.paulcomp.com/seatpost.html

But the best IMO is Thomson setback in silver: http://bikethomson.com/seatposts/elite-seatpost-series/

The problem is you need a decent amount of post showing in order to clear the bend they have. Looking at your set up, it wouldn't work, although the top two would be fine.

Cheers,
David

On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 5:08 PM, LeahFoy <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've never heard of such a thing! All this time I've been wrenching on my current saddle with an Allen key, adjusting it a millimeter this way or that. There is actually some better contraption out there?

[WETH]

I use this one : http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/seatposts/vo-grand-cru-seat-post-long-setback.html
You will still need to ride with an Allen key, but adjustment is so much easier!
Sage cycling,
Erl

[hsmitham]

+1 on what Deacon stated, as good as the Red saddle would look you might rue the experience in the up right position and end up posting a transaction selling a red B-17 on this list.Then again you may just want to go for it and perhaps it'll work for you especially if they make the red B-17 in a ladies model.

And welcome to the group the best group on the web!

Best,

Hugh

Sunland, CA

[Peter Morgano]

Lugged Nitto is the perfect match for brooks saddles IMO.

http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/so 39.htm

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[Allan in Portland]

It's not a Foy, but the Hilsen certainly rocks the red saddle, if I do say so myself.

So-so profile: http://www.flickr.com/photos/47116230@N00/7230483948/

Hilsen in repose: http://www.flickr.com/photos/15966859@N07/7398233282/

Cheers,

-Allan

[Michael]

More important than the aesthetics issue is the comfort issue. You won't know until you try.

Call around local shoppes to see if they have an old B17 lying around you could take out on a trial run. If you like the red, you could buy one thru them.

 

I don't know where you are located, but anywhere near Baltimore, MD and you are welcome to borrow one of mine. 

[LeahFoy]

Thanks, Michael! I'd sure have taken you up on that if I lived close, but I'm not even in the same time zone! I'll be in touch with wallbike.com tomorrow and see what they say about the B17 after I send them a pic of my current setup.

Wonder if this cherry Brooks will be so gorgeous that I abandon the comfort of my B68 in favor of shallow good looks... I am, after all, female, and have given in to beauty over function before...

[Ryan]

I think a red B-17 or other  ladies model if that is your preference  will be groovy with the colour scheme of the Betty Foy...but 1st treatment of Proofide or Obernauf's may change the colour. Another thing to worry about a bit is that the dye may transfer itself to whatever you're wearing  due to rain or heat and moisture transfer and it may be difficult to remove the stain...hence the reason for the classic black shorts. I don't think I've ever had a leather saddle that didn't  leach some of the dye in the first few rides...and I've ridded a few leather saddles.

 

On Friday, May 10, 2013 3:43:09 PM UTC-5, LeahFoy wrote:

Hi, All!

 I'm Leah, and I'm happy to have discovered you!

In November I managed to get my paws on my very own Rivendell Betty Foy. She's the completely perfect answer to my cycling needs. I slapped a gorgeous Brooks B68 in honey on her and it's been great. But yesterday I made the mistake of tooling around on the Brooks site and discovered that they now make a RED B 17...and it would be the exact red that all the decals and fill-ins on the lugwork are. If fit isn't a consideration, what is your opinion about swapping for the red? Will it look too matchy? Would you tire of seeing a cherry red Brooks? Should the more sensible honey color prevail? My other saddle could go to my dad, who is currently suffering with his stock Specialized saddle, so no waste there... I'd love your opinions, so thanks ahead of time!

Leah

[LeahFoy]

I contacted both Bill at Wallbike and Keven at Riv. Both think with my setup the better-for-your-butt is the B 68. But Bill totally gets why I want the red... I think I'll order it and see how it feels. Maybe I won't mind it for the riding I do. I never travel over 10 miles one way. Is it probable that it would be fine for shorter distances vs, say, rando stuff?

[Deacon Patrick]

I noticed the difference right away, no milage needed.

With abandon,
Patrick

[hsmitham]

Leah,

Opting for shallow good looks over function definitely not restricted to the female gender :-)

~Hugh

[bobish]

Just try it. You know you want to. ;) Then you'll know. Nobody can tell you for sure and trial and error should be viewed as not only necessary, but one of the pleasures of your avocation (a learning process worthy of its own discovery and delights). In other words, the process of learning about yourself and the bike should be enjoyed, not avoided. If it was me and the wiating for the red b-17 was a long one, I'd pick up a used black (or whatever) and ride it while the red was on order. Then I'd know for sure that either I preferred the b-68 and cancel the red brooks, or wait with anticipation for its arrival. Most importantly, having crossed that off my investigation list, I'd move on to the next experiment.

Enjoy,
Perry

[LeahFoy]

Bobish ~ how true, how true. I'm just never going to be satisfied until I see that lovely red saddle for myself. I just have to know how my Foy will look with it. I am hoping the comfort differences aren't VERY noticeable; I could live with "less comfortable" but will draw the line at "uncomfortable." We'll see, won't we? The saddles are back in stock next week. I hope to have lots of pics so we can all mull this over in our collective Rivish brains. Thanks, again, everyone! This is so much fun!

[LeahFoy]

Guess who bought a cherry red saddle today?

[René Sterental]

Photos!!!

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On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 8:57 PM, LeahFoy <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Guess who bought a cherry red saddle today?

[LeahFoy]

I got it online, so you'll have to be patient!

[René Sterental]

Ha ha ha ha !!!

On Saturday, May 18, 2013, LeahFoy wrote:

I got it online, so you'll have to be patient!

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[PeterG]

Awesome..gonna need pics when it arrives...my wife recently got her hands on a Betty Foy and she is really anxious to see your photos

[Fullylugged]

Did you get the Brooks or another brand?

[Deacon Patrick]

Wait ... wha...? There are saddles other than Brooks? Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[LeahFoy]

I definitely got the Brooks :)

[Edwin W]

Can't wait to see how it looks. A couple of years ago I got the mandarin orange b17 and it bled dye more than my other Brookses. Not horrible, came out in the wash, but surprising.

Some of those afternoon rides after work in work clothes are really hot here in Nashville!

Edwin

[Leslie]

On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 11:04:33 AM UTC-4, Homer Sapiens wrote:

Just note that the red will only last for a year or so of riding.  After a while, the Brooks color saddles fade back to natural brown leather. 

But, you can re-dye one as needed.....

[LeahFoy]

Really? I didn't think that was part of the deal!!! Are you sure? What color brown will it be? I love my honey B68, but I don't care for the antique brown. I would not be happy if my red Brooks ends up looking that way! Is this only with red or with the other limited edition colors too?

[LeahFoy]

And how does one re-dye? It doesn't sound like anything I'd love to do...

[LeahFoy]

[Leslie]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34156114@N05/8395437401/

Haven't tried it myself;  I happen to prefer the antique brown and have gone out of the way to get 'em at times;  the honey will eventually darken to something like the antique brown, given enough time in the saddle... (I don't know what will happen once I have many more years on my brown ones)...

Hopefully it won't fade too fast on ya...   I suppose a lot of that will depend on your mileage, climate, etc...

Good luck w/ it...

-L

[LeahFoy]

Worried, I spoke to Bill from Wallbike. He says that the old Brooks colored saddles were a black or brown saddle topped with a different color. The abrasion on the saddle made the true color show through almost immediately. Brooks has changed the way these saddles are made over the past few years - something about using a new tanner. I'll quote him here:

"The color variations that have been introduced in the last few years are the result of Brooks finding a tanner with a new process for coloring the leather. All in all I would guess that the color in your red saddle would be as stable as the black, honey, and antique brown versions. If I had a bike that could use a red B.17 I wouldn't hesitate to use one. "

Also, he was clear that re-dyeing is a poor option; the leather has to be raw and the new color won't stick over the old dye. Are you all out of excuses not to buy that cheery red saddle? Join me, the water's fine! *Grin*

I feel better! Seriously, All, thanks for the discourse; I'm definitely learning more all the time! And it is so much fun.

[cyclotourist]

I had a green B17 that lasted fine. I think you'll be ok :-)

Cheers,
David

[Philip Williamson]

My green one is 9 and fine.

Philip
www.biketinker.com

[Bruce Herbitter]

Two buddies who have ridden red Selle Anatomicas have not experienced color change after several thousand miles. Hopefully your brooks will be the same.  My green brooks is still green two years later, although the copper plating of the rails is fading.

On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 3:33 PM, LeahFoy <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

And how does one re-dye? It doesn't sound like anything I'd love to do...

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[Ron Mc]

Just finished a bike project and opted for the black "truleather" Selle.  Was thinking about the red, but if it wasn't quite the same color as the red frame, would have looked out of place.  On another bike, have the blue B-17, but you can't tell it's blue - it looks black.  Between the two, the Selle is the more invisible-feeling (length and width are identical), but don't know if it will hold up like the Brooks.  

[LeahFoy]

Well, the red saddle arrived right on schedule, as promised. I unpacked it as quickly as possible and slapped it on my Betty. I was determined to like it for its good looks, regardless of how it felt.

I have to say...I prefer both the look and the comfort of my B 68. When I rode that saddle, it felt rounded (it is) and made me want to slide around, instead of be seated. I ended up preferring the rough texture of my honey saddle, as well as the color. I kept seeing Rudolph's nose when I looked at my bike. I'm attaching pictures so you guys can say what you think.

I'm glad I tried it; I would have been forever tormented about that saddle. The horrid thing in the process is that I can't get my old Brooks back to the saddle nirvana it was in before I removed the saddle. *Face palm.* Dad will be getting a new B 67 for Father's Day since I'm keeping my saddle, so he should be happy. Oh, well!


Leah

[LeahFoy]

Just in case the photos didn't attach properly...

On Friday, May 10, 2013 1:43:09 PM UTC-7, LeahFoy wrote:

Hi, All!

 I'm Leah, and I'm happy to have discovered you!

In November I managed to get my paws on my very own Rivendell Betty Foy. She's the completely perfect answer to my cycling needs. I slapped a gorgeous Brooks B68 in honey on her and it's been great. But yesterday I made the mistake of tooling around on the Brooks site and discovered that they now make a RED B 17...and it would be the exact red that all the decals and fill-ins on the lugwork are. If fit isn't a consideration, what is your opinion about swapping for the red? Will it look too matchy? Would you tire of seeing a cherry red Brooks? Should the more sensible honey color prevail? My other saddle could go to my dad, who is currently suffering with his stock Specialized saddle, so no waste there... I'd love your opinions, so thanks ahead of time!

Leah

[bobish]

Hi again, Leah,

I've been following the thread with great interest and suspense. :) I was one of the responders who preferred the looks of the honey b-68 and also thought you'd prefer it on that bike due to the upright riding position. But I also thought you needed to try it ASAP and see for yourself so that you could move on. And so now you have, and life is good. Worry not. All part of the fun of the trial and error process. You don't know how good anything is until you try something just a little to this or that side of it. And I know that you'll get your b-68 dialed back in. Just be patient.

Perry

[Ryan]

Well, the red does look nice,but if you honestly prefer the original....at least your Dad is getting a nice Father's day present.

[LeahFoy]

I'm going to return it and send Dad the B67 in antique brown. He has a burnt orange Specialized Globe Daily 2 that it will be great for! Wallbike still gets a sale after all...

[René Sterental]

Now you know... and knowing is priceless!

 

That being said, there are things I firmly believed I had come to know, like which saddle I liked and which one I didn't, or handlebar, or pedals, and all of a sudden, when I try them again, I decide that know I like them better than the previous best one. That's why I have a hard time selling some of the items I've bought...

 

With saddles I keep going back and forth between the B17 and the Berthoud saddles, started with the B17 on all my bikes, decided I didn't quite like it and tried the Berthoud. Decided I loved it and preferred it. Now two of my bikes where I ride more upright on Bosco handlebars have B17 saddles (Betty and Hunqapillar) and the other two where I have Rando drop bars and lean forward a bit more have Berthoud saddles.

 

So nothing wrong with returning the red B17 and recapturing the perfect saddle position you had before (and then never again removing the saddle from the seatpost until it has to be replaced), or you could get a second seatpost and play around with the B17 for a while to see if you can find its sweet spot.

 

I can tell you that it's in these minor tweaks and adjustments where the key to comfort resides; that and allowing some time to break in the saddle and or get used to the new contact areas on your derriere...

 

If you could only find some red leather matching grips...

 

René

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[Bruce Herbitter]

try tilting the nose up a tad and parking your sit bones on the flat landing area in back that is created when you tilt up the nose.

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[hsmitham]

Sounds like the beginning to a rap song...come on MC tinker break it down for us. 

[hsmitham]

Rene,

Well stated. The minor adjustments are the secret. I think the Red saddle looked good too & also thought red grips would have helped. I for one thought the B-68 saddle was the ticket in the upright position plus women tend to be anatomically different which that saddle addresses. Too bad they don't make it in Red.

Best,

[LeahFoy]

If Brooks ever does create a red B68 or B67, I'm in!

I didn't get to ride much today, but I'm on my way to getting the saddle dialed in. I just can't remember if I had it scooted more forward than I currently do. I've been messing with that bike since I got it so I can't be sure how I last had it, when I thought it was so perfect!

[Montclair BobbyB]

Hah....All this for a saddle? Damn right.