The Charlie Gallop Thread

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Who has this bike and why aren’t we talking about it? 

I did start a thread about my specific Charlie, but that was all about looks and not about Charlies in general. It’s time for a communal Charlie thread.

I have the gold 53 cm and am finally, FINALLY starting to get a read on this bike. We have had a horrid cold and windy spring, so I have maybe 100 miles on Charlie, which is not a lot. But early impressions are proving favorable, and I am happy to have him. Charlie is unmistakably male; I cannot help but talk about him as such, so play along. There are a lot of jokes between my husband and me, “I’ve run off with Charlie again, but don’t worry it didn’t MEAN anything” and so on. He says of Charlie, “Who, Chuck?” And then calls him a crass name that he derived from Charlie’s unfortunate-looking Bananasax.

Charlie is a scoundrel. 

Charlie is my first try with Choco bars, and I’m committed, regardless of whether I like them, because they are ANODIZED and an essential part of his outfit. I saw a pair in real life one a RoadUno and thought they looked sporty. Luckily, I think I *do* like them. At first I thought they came back too far, but now I think they’re just right. I am also trying RapidRise and I like that, too. I do make shifting mistakes now and again, especially if I’ve recently been on a Platypus, which has the other kind of friction shifting. Charlie also has 38s for tires, which it nearly killed me to slim down to, but I knew I did not need another pair of 42s. The 38s are fun! They make me feel fast and they can handle a pothole well enough.

We have had such wind! But even so, I’m feeling quick on this bike. I’ve been on 4 group rides so far and we did struggle in the headwind, but that’s to be expected early in the season. I’ve never been dropped or anything, but I worked hard to keep my pace. Like, 178-beats-a-minute hard. I’ve since decided to ride in windy conditions; it’s the only way I’ll ever get good at wind. 

People ask me if Charlie is faster than a Platypus. I don’t know. It feels easier on Charlie, but a Platypus is not hard. Does that make sense? I do notice how light he is because I lift him overhead to hang on a rack and I can do it no sweat. He feels quick and agile, but that could be because he is running around naked, rack-less and mostly bag-less. True knowing will be had when group rides get back up and running. Maybe I’ll bring a Platypus after awhile and see how hard I have to work.

Who else has gotten a Charlie and is having wild times out there? Is your Charlie as scandalous as mine? I seldom hear from other people about this bike. It’s a new model, only one run so far, and I’m interested to know what experiences others are having. 

Also, we have another few days of crap weather coming up, I’ll be looking forward to reading about bikes if I can’t be out riding one.

Leah

[Shannon Menkveld]

That ano is the business! Where'd you get it done?

As to the Charlie as a bike, I didn't get it when I first saw it. It's kind of a weird bike at first glance: semi-step-through frame, swept bars... caliper brakes? It didn't make sense. Then I visited Riv WHQ, and actually rode the thing. And now I grok. I rode all three step-throughs, Clem, Platypus, and Charlie H. Gallop. On the springy and sprightly and steel-y axis, it went Clem --> Platy --> Charlie, which is pretty much what you'd expect. The Platypus was closer to the Gallop than the Clem in terms of good-steel-bike "twang." (The Clem isn't a twangy bike, and isn't meant to be.) On the Charlie, I was jamming harder than I'd thought I would... I even tried a sprint or two. It is as described: a dropped top tube road bike.

None of which you needed me to tell you, since you actually own the velocipedes in question, and I rode them in a parking lot.

Back to rank speculation, I suspect that your Gallop will at least feel faster than your Platy, although your watch might not show much difference.

--Shannon

[Kat]

Leah, I don't have a Charlie but your Charlie is so handsome it has awakened the desire for a go-fast bike in me. This will have to wait several years until my fitness is actually capable of going fast, but I can dream.

What made you choose the Charlie over the Roadini? Just the dropped top tube? They seem otherwise extremely similar to me although I am happy to be corrected.

Thanks,

Kathryn

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Hi Shannon! 

The ano was a collective effort. I had to have parts disassembled to make them safe for ano, and then Ashley of Ashley Anodized It fame (find her on Instagram) did my bars, cranks, Silver shifters, Paul levers, chain rings, chain guard and handlebars. Velocity did my rims. The theme was Northern Lights, because I had been chasing them this summer and wanted to see if I could have those colors in a bike. It was a challenge to have two anodizers, each with their own interpretation, and with a difficult assignment. Their work came out beautifully complementary and all of us are in love with the end result. The colors are lively and shimmery and when those wheels whir it is a happy, colorful blur. 

I think you’re right about speed and feel of these bikes. Even if it’s just that I FEEL faster, I’ll take it!

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Hi Kat! I would have chosen the Roadini if the Charlie didn’t exist. The Charlie is, in size 53, lighter in tubing. And I love a dropped tube. Also the graphics and head badge and horses running along the chain stay are just YUMMY. And who doesn’t love that gold color?

The above all made it the winner.

[Bill Lindsay]

I've probably disappointed some people because I spent a ton of time talking about my Gallop build and have spent zero time talking about my Charlie Gallop gallops.  That's because I haven't ridden it yet.  It's not laziness or neglect or a lack of wanting to ride it.  It's my weird self-discipline.  I have a mileage framework with rules I entirely made up for myself, and the consequence is that I won't ride the Gallop until I can insert it into the framework, and I can't insert it into the framework until I make a spot for it, and the way I make a spot is by riding each of my other bikes to its assigned mileage level.  The punch-line is that I'm just a few days away from having a spot for Charlie in my riding framework and then stuff can begin.  One of the first things I'll do is gallop the Gallop up Mount Diablo, perhaps as soon as next weekend.  

Meanwhile, independent from riding, there are always projects parading through my brain, and some of those thoughts end up happening in my work stand, and there is a real non-zero chance that Charlie is going to get a couple more unconventional tweaks.  

For those who missed the build, here's the album:  https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/albums/72177720322843646/

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, Ca

[Richard Rose]

Bill, what is your calculated/actual final weight on your Charlie? Also, what does “tuned XTR” mean?

Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 5, 2025, at 8:39 AM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've probably disappointed some people because I spent a ton of time talking about my Gallop build and have spent zero time talking about my Charlie Gallop gallops.  That's because I haven't ridden it yet.  It's not laziness or neglect or a lack of wanting to ride it.  It's my weird self-discipline.  I have a mileage framework with rules I entirely made up for myself, and the consequence is that I won't ride the Gallop until I can insert it into the framework, and I can't insert it into the framework until I make a spot for it, and the way I make a spot is by riding each of my other bikes to its assigned mileage level.  The punch-line is that I'm just a few days away from having a spot for Charlie in my riding framework and then stuff can begin.  One of the first things I'll do is gallop the Gallop up Mount Diablo, perhaps as soon as next weekend.  

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[Dorothy C]

Kat, the Gallop has a kickstand plate too, which I wish the Roadini had, even though it is unconventional on a road bike. I do without on my lugged Roadini and just have a SteerStopper, my tigged Roadini has a Pletscher clamp and spacers and some inner tube wrapped round the chainstays to discourage slipping. I still have to deploy it gently and keep an eye on it.  

[Shannon Menkveld]

Is the Gallop dropbarable without a weirdo stem?

--Shannon

[Dorothy C]

Shannon I spoke to Will last year about that, he said if you are planning drops, go with the smaller of the sizes that fit you

[Dan]

Dorothy, just dropping in to say I really like the look of this Roadini of yours - so purposeful! That leather carry handle is 👌

[Bill Lindsay]

20.4 pounds.  Tuned means I made it lighter than it was new.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Dorothy C]

Thank you Dan. I got this frame at the end of 2022, and when I bought the lugged late last year I decided to keep this one after moving its drop bar setup and Rich built Quill wheels to that one, and build a dyno wheel for the front, following Roman’s idea. I had Prowheelbuilder build a matching rear with a black Bitex RAR 12 hub in the back. This one is a lighter commuter, so good for the bus rack when I am not using the Metrolink train, and is also my rain bike because of the Cambium saddle, SKS fenders and pin equipped VP pedals. 

Here is a pic of the lugged Roadini 

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I just have to wonder where most of these frames went. We’ve heard from so few people who have purchased them! There was one that went for sale in the Riv newsletter Friday and it’s gone. I’ve seen some ISO Charlie postings and I direct them to Blue Lug, because they have most sizes in both colors for sale. 

I recently heard someone compare his RB-1 to his Charlie: one was a fast, light canoe vs a fast, springy kayak; it was not clear to me which bike was which watercraft.

There seems to be a mainstay line at Riv - Homer, Atlantis, Clem, Sam, Appaloosa, and a mixte of some kind. Then there seems to be newer bikes that don’t have the same longevity. The Gus/Susies, Roadini, RoadUno, Rosco bikes… 

I am wondering to which line the Charlie will belong. It does not have a huge fan base, and maybe it was meant to be a fun, one-time bike for road riders. I hope not. I really like it so far. 

[Kat]

Now that I've had a better look at the Gallop vs Roadini I can see they are quite different bikes despite being initally very similar. The Gallop has a much longer top tube and chain stays, and the BB drop and head tube angle are also different. Interesting that the Gallop is lighter than the equivalent Roadini, I would have thought it was the other way around.

Dorothy - I LOVE your practical Roadinis! Where is that leather carry handle from?

I hope the Charlie sticks around, I think it's a fun bike.

[Jason Fuller]

I too am surprised how little information, and by information I mostly mean eye candy photos, there are of the run of Charlies. Mind you, I could say the same about Roadunos, and certainly the same about some Crust models that have sold well enough despite the complete lack of evidence - such as the Malocchio, Scapegoat, and Wombat. I guess I just over-estimate what proportion of buyers are Very Online. 

Hopefully more surface online over the coming months. I'm glad yours is leading the charge. 

[Leah Peterson]

Thanks, Jason! I think this model has so much going for it. I love, love the head badge and the decals. They nailed this one. And I like the name of the model a lot. And the dark gold color just does me good. It’s such a pleasing bike and I’m stoked to ride it more in the coming weeks. Today is only 36 degrees at the warmest, send help. I figure if I can just get through this week better temps are ahead. If not, I am going biking in a snow suit. 

On Apr 8, 2025, at 1:29 AM, Jason Fuller <jtf.f...@gmail.com> wrote:

I too am surprised how little information, and by information I mostly mean eye candy photos, there are of the run of Charlies. Mind you, I could say the same about Roadunos, and certainly the same about some Crust models that have sold well enough despite the complete lack of evidence - such as the Malocchio, Scapegoat, and Wombat. I guess I just over-estimate what proportion of buyers are Very Online. 

Hopefully more surface online over the coming months. I'm glad yours is leading the charge. 

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[Piaw Na]

I tried one of the prototypes of the Charlie Gallop. It felt more like a gravel bike than it felt like a road bike. Maybe it's been because I've been too used to my lightweight custom touring bike, but the ultra long chainstays (50cm+ in my size) never gave it the oomph I felt when climbing, though it made the bike feel planted while on gravel. My biggest objection to such ultra long chainstays is that it makes it very difficult to pack it into a bike box and take it on a plane for touring. The Roadini with a 45cm chainstay will barely fit as it is, so something that long was out of the question.

When I was specing a custom frame for my brother, I went with the Roadini geometry with a lower BB (85mm drop) because now that wide tires are available that are light enough to use he sees no reason to run anything narrower than 35mm tires. That's one place where I feel Rivendell hasn't truly committed to using really wide tires despite most of their bikes coming from the factory with super wide tires. If you're going to do that by default then just commit to it and have a much lower BB.

[Joe Bernard]

Piaw said: "That's one place where I feel Rivendell hasn't truly committed to using really wide tires despite most of their bikes coming from the factory with super wide tires. If you're going to do that by default then just commit to it and have a much lower BB."

Joe says: If I'm buying a bike marketed as a road bike I'm going to expect it to be able to run skinny tires without pedal strike looming at normal lean angles. Rivendell would be crazy to go the super-low BB route, they're plenty low enough now. 

Joe Bernard 

[Jay]

When I was looking for an all-road bike (paved, and gravel), I chose the Roadini because I wanted drop bars and the TT was shorter on the Roadini than the Gallop.  I think the Gallop is a good all-road bike for use with swept back bars, which makes it perfect for you, Leah.  I guess you can also use the Roadini with swept back bars.  Perhaps the beefier models that allow wider tires (Joe, Atlantis) get more air-time because they're more off-road intended?

[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

On Tue, Apr 8, 2025 at 2:58 PM Jay <jason....@gmail.com> wrote:

When I was looking for an all-road bike (paved, and gravel), I chose the Roadini because I wanted drop bars and the TT was shorter on the Roadini than the Gallop.  I think the Gallop is a good all-road bike for use with swept back bars, which makes it perfect for you, Leah.  I guess you can also use the Roadini with swept back bars.  Perhaps the beefier models that allow wider tires (Joe, Atlantis) get more air-time because they're more off-road intended?

I don't think you need an explanation other than that many folks tend to buy hybrids or mountain bikes instead of a road bike even though (for example) my road bike probably sees more off road miles in a year (e.g. https://youtu.be/QaGt1KhKWbQ?si=o3UO2S1MIZxjVuN2) than most mountain bikes will ever see in their lifetime. Just like my family minivan will see more off roading than most SUVs which are only ever driven to the mall.

[Jason Fuller]

What makes the Charlie so unique in the lineup is that it's the first roadish Riv with proper flat/swept bar geometry.  Puts it in quite a different category from Roadini / Homer. Also IMO Riv BB's are plenty low already even with max tire size.  I would not want lower.  Maybe with super short cranks an argument can be made for more BB drop, but that's an edge case. 

[Piaw Na]

What makes the Charlie so unique in the lineup is that it's the first roadish Riv with proper flat/swept bar geometry.  Puts it in quite a different category from Roadini / Homer. Also IMO Riv BB's are plenty low already even with max tire size.  I would not want lower.  Maybe with super short cranks an argument can be made for more BB drop, but that's an edge case. 

That makes no sense. With 25mm tires, 172.5mm cranks and a 8cm BB drop, I might have pedal strike once or twice a year when riding aggressively off road. With 28mm tires that I'm running today, I have no pedal strikes. I'm confident that with 35mm tires, 170mm cranks, and an 85mm BB drop my brother will not pedal strike no matter what he does. With 40mm tires, he could probably run 180mm cranks and still have no pedal strikes.

Are you running cinder blocks for pedals?

[Jason Fuller]

Piaw, you are not the authority you think you are, and your comments make no sense to me either.  Let's not get this thread off track. 

[Piaw Na]

On Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at 4:59:42 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:

Piaw, you are not the authority you think you are, and your comments make no sense to me either.  Let's not get this thread off track. 

I'm not an authority. Here's Dave Moulton, (the framebuilder) who is an authority: http://davesbikeblog.squarespace.com/blog/2012/3/12/frame-design-then-and-now.html;jsessionid=4526DE005F0CBC6ECFFDF063B26C631A.v5-web015

"I can remember that my bottom bracket was low enough that I could lower my heel and actually touch the ground.

Our cycling shoes had real leather soles, and had steel tips on the heels to prevent wear when walking.

While out training after dark, and coasting down hill; we would sometimes lower our heel so the steel tip made contact with the road, sending out a shower of sparks. A pretty spectacular visual effect, especially if several riders did it together.... Over the years the bottom bracket height on racing frames has increased; not because striking a pedal on the ground was an issue. (I never found it to be a problem.) But rather one of making the BB higher makes the chainstays and down tube shorter, and therefore makes a stiffer frame."

[Joe Bernard]

It would be swell if we could get back to the topic of Charlie Gallops and other and such related matters. This digression into how Riv should build frames differently for some reason they're never going to entertain is a buzzkill. 

[Matt Isaacs]

Hi all,

I picked up a Gallop in a trade with the listmember a few weeks ago. I have other Rivs but have been wanting to try one of the longer models, and this checked all the boxes. Lugged, light, and a beautiful color. I built it up single speed with White Industries Eno hubs and other light bits and bobs I had in the garage. Stripped down, I have it at 20+ pounds, though I've now added a front rack and bag. It's my new go-to bike, especially for errands or cruising around town with my wife on her Platypus. It's amazing how much comfort can play into the pleasure of a ride, as opposed to, or in conjunction with, speed or nimbleness. I love the springy feel perched between the long wheelbase. I'm a Riv Classicist, with my platonic ideal being a Riv Road or Legolas, but I already had a garage full of bikes like that and others. None of them feel like the Gallop, and that's kinda the point. I don't know how this model will fit within Riv's ever-evolving arc, but one thing is for sure, no one else is making bikes that hit quite like these.

Matt

Walnut Creek

[Mathias Steiner]

I hope I get away with being off-topic, but....

"Matt

Walnut Creek"

For you, "I have other Rivs" must be a bit like paying property taxes.

I'm trying to imagine the financial impact of living that close to the candy store.

cheers -m

[Leah Peterson]

Matt, I love hearing from other Charlie owners who are more bike-experienced than I. Your review feels like a confirmation that I got something really special, it’s a delicious feeling. I’m still pretty new to Charlie and don’t have a wealth of wise words I can share about him yet. 

I thought my Charlie was running around naked - Matt’s is truly streaking! I love the idea of that kind of lightness but I’d be hamstrung. (I know you have since added rack and bag.) 

And yes, Mathias, how DOES he live so close to the candy store and keep calm? I’d be a junkie for sure.

L

On Apr 9, 2025, at 1:13 AM, Matt Isaacs <matt.i...@gmail.com> wrote:



<IMG_2917.jpg>

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<IMG_2917.jpg>

[Dorothy C]

Kat and Dan

The leather strap above the bottom bracket is a Little Lifter from Walnut Studiolo

[Johnny Alien]

There is a scene at the end of Pretty In Pink where Duckie shows up at the prom in a fancy suit but then says to Andie "despite my appearance at this function I remain now and will always be the Duckman" and points at his classic white shoes.  That is how I imagine Leah and her Gallop (and she points to her dynamo light)

[Bill Lindsay]

...then Leah pedals away saying "I'm off like a dirty shirt", and the Psychedelic Furs soundtrack echoes from the forest....

BL in EC

[Leah Peterson]

Alright you two, I have no idea what these Duckie and Psychedelic Furs references are but has not stopped me from embracing and running off with them. I’m having a good laugh over here!

Duckie

On Apr 9, 2025, at 10:45 AM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

...then Leah pedals away saying "I'm off like a dirty shirt", and the Psychedelic Furs soundtrack echoes from the forest....

BL in EC

On Wednesday, April 9, 2025 at 6:51:42 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:

There is a scene at the end of Pretty In Pink where Duckie shows up at the prom in a fancy suit but then says to Andie "despite my appearance at this function I remain now and will always be the Duckman" and points at his classic white shoes.  That is how I imagine Leah and her Gallop (and she points to her dynamo light)

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[Mackenzy Albright]

Matt - Your Gallop SS looks incredible! Would you be so kind as to share a drive side photograph? :) 

[Jason Noonievut]

Have you seen Pretty in Pink?!  Must see.  Psychedelic Furs are an 80’s band and the title track is their song.

Jason

On Apr 9, 2025, at 1:06 PM, Mackenzy Albright <mackenzy...@gmail.com> wrote:

Matt - Your Gallop SS looks incredible! Would you be so kind as to share a drive side photograph? :) 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4d669c94-34e0-44d8-bceb-8d207fe9651an%40googlegroups.com.

[Evan E.]

Yes, Matt in Walnut Creek: drive-side photo, please! 

[Leah Peterson]

I don’t know why it is so difficult to get a photo that shows how lovely Charlie really is. Maybe when the sun finally returns to SW Michigan for another golden summer, then I will master photography of Charlie. 

The “dark gold” actually has pearl in it; gorgeous in sunshine and a treat to look at while riding.

I got 12ish miles on him yesterday; it was cool and a little windy, so still not a pleasure ride, but it is allowing me to get acquainted with him. This is a bike that just goes. Tracks easily and feels great. It will finally be nice enough to take him on the Monday Night Ride next week, and I’m hoping for no wind and then we can really evaluate him in a normal club ride. I raised the bars back up an inch yesterday. I know I’m supposed to leave them lower and all that, but I just hate weight on my hands and holding the very ends of the grips. We’ll see how it feels today.

I admit it’s a struggle to choose which bike to ride for pleasure. Riding the newest is always a draw, but then the Platys are just so READY. I can carry whatever I want on them and lock them up. Charlie is truly a road rider, and if it doesn’t fit into a Bananasax, you can’t take him.

It is 31 degrees, but there is sun, and the promise of 57 by the end of the day. It’s looking promising!

L

On Apr 9, 2025, at 11:23 PM, Evan E. <evanel...@gmail.com> wrote:



Yes, Matt in Walnut Creek: drive-side photo, please! 

On Apr 9, 2025, at 1:06 PM, Mackenzy Albright <mackenzy...@gmail.com> wrote:

Matt - Your Gallop SS looks incredible! Would you be so kind as to share a drive side photograph? :) 

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[Shannon Menkveld]

Leah -

It looks from the pictures that Charlie's got enough room for one of the smaller Carradice bags. A Barley or Pendle would fit for sure, and a Lowsaddle Longflap wouldn't surprise me. That would allow you to carry a load between "a couple of bananas" and "the kitchen sink"... maybe like a crock pot or something?

Anyhow, they're great sport-touring bags. I love my Lowsaddle. And the green & honey would look the business with the dark gold paint on the Gallop.

Just a thought...

--Shannon

[Jay]

The second photo was good, picked up some nice details and contrast between the gold and splashes of aurora borealis.  Not sure if you'll get a good photo of the entire bike as there is a lot of good things going on.

[Bill Lindsay]

I hinted that my Charlie Gallop might make its appearance in my rotation this weekend, and it has.  I did not ride it up Mount Diablo, but I did ride it down into Berkeley and back.  It is most definitely a rocket.  Blazing fast down the hill on 700x38 Barlow Pass Extralight tires, and blazing fast up the hills in part because it's so darn light.  It'll take a little getting used to the handling with a Jitensha bar, but the fit felt super natural.  

I also hinted at a tweak or two, and one of those conceptual tweaks did happen.  It turned out I needed a lightish 110BCD crank for a project, so I stole the Silver 3 crank off the Gallop for that application, and put on a White Industries VBC crank with a single 36T narrow-wide ring.  That's a perfect match for the White Industries Titanium BB that was already on there, and it dropped ~15g.  I don't have new photos yet.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Leah Peterson]

A rocket! Pretty exciting! How do you have the willpower to keep rotating bikes? If I have a rocket, I’m riding that one. I don’t know if my Charlie is a rocket; it doesn’t have those tires and certainly weighs more than yours. I was hoping to ride him tonight in the club ride but they’re predicting 37 mph winds. I don’t think that will be fun and it might not even be safe, so we’ll see…

L

On Apr 13, 2025, at 8:59 PM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

I hinted that my Charlie Gallop might make its appearance in my rotation this weekend, and it has.  I did not ride it up Mount Diablo, but I did ride it down into Berkeley and back.  It is most definitely a rocket.  Blazing fast down the hill on 700x38 Barlow Pass Extralight tires, and blazing fast up the hills in part because it's so darn light.  It'll take a little getting used to the handling with a Jitensha bar, but the fit felt super natural.  

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[Bill Lindsay]

"How do you have the willpower to keep rotating bikes? If I have a rocket, I’m riding that one."

The answer is I'm not sure how I have the willpower; I just do.  Grant once told me: "It must be hard being you".  I guess I think about it the way a "clothes horse" thinks about a new outfit.  No matter how cute that new outfit is, I'm not wearing it every day.  I still pick my spots for when to wear it, and I'm definitely not forgetting about my other cute outfits, nor will I resist buying the next cute outfit.  

I'm definitely a compulsive.  For a minute there I had four new builds that were off-limits to ride.  At the moment there are still three I can't ride.  What I've got is a mileage pyramid.  One bike is assigned to the 100 mile level of the pyramid, another assigned to 200 miles and so on.  Twenty bikes cover 100 miles up to 2000 miles cumulatively on Strava.  Above 2000 miles the steps are 200 miles each and there are two bikes up there: one assigned to 2200 miles and the current top of the pyramid is at 2400 miles.  That's 22 bikes.  I spread the use to get each bike to its assigned level, and I'm allowed some margin over that assigned level, but I won't bleed over to the next level up.  That's a no-no.  I'm very close to having all those slots filled: My Black Mountain Model Zero needs 48 miles, and my Crust Lightning Bolt Single Speed needs 45 miles.  At that point, I add the 2600 mile level to the top of the pyramid and have a wide open stable to ride whatever I like.  

The four other builds (22+4=26 bikes) waiting to be used included my Gallop.  I have it at the 0 mile level, which means I can ride it, but not over 100 miles because then it would get up into the next level which is already occupied.  There are three more bikes assigned to the -100, -200 and -300 levels, which are imaginary, so I can't ride them at all.  When I get to ratchet up the framework, then one more bike will be unlocked.  The other way to earn the privilege of riding another bike is to sell a bike and make a new vacancy in the pyramid.  

Unlocking the stable is really close, but I'm stalled getting those last two bikes over the finish line:  The ModelZero has a new drive train set up in the works, and I'm missing a critical part for another week or two.  It's in the work stand disassembled.  The Crust is stationed at my office in San Jose, and I don't get out there more than once a week, and when I do get to the office it's usually for full-days of meetings and such that make it hard to get out.  I can still ride, because I can carefully use up that surplus that each bike carries.  That surplus is over 2100 miles, so I can ride plenty and I can ride pretty much any of my bikes.  The Gallop carries 88 miles of surplus.  I can even do my next 200k brevet using up surplus miles: My Ebisu is assigned to 2200 miles, and it's at 2215 miles, so it is carrying 185 miles of surplus.  I can use it for my May 200k, and still have 60 miles of surplus left over.  

Don't blame me!  I don't make up the rules! (said the person who literally made up the rules)

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Richard Rose]

Fascinating. Too complex of a formula for me to comprehend let alone follow. The “rocket” comment really got my attention though. So much so that I looked at the cost (very reasonable) to have a Charlie shipped from Blue Lug. But thankfully I know exactly how to keep the N+1 feelings at bay - I go for a ride. This always happens to me. If I am in a riding rut, for whatever reason, I ponder other bikes. A good ride always sets me straight. It’s not another bike I need, it’s more rides! That said, the idea of a rocket bike, especially such a pretty one will continue to hold my interest during my “down times”.

Richard - who just finished a nice 25+ mile ride on the lovely Clem.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 14, 2025, at 10:20 AM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

"How do you have the willpower to keep rotating bikes? If I have a rocket, I’m riding that one."

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[Sally Bidleman]

Bill,

Excited to see that someone else is trying the Jitensha bar! I'm changing over from a drop bar (for a mixte) and bought a black one a couple weeks ago. My mixte may be a Cessna, but bar is first step to rocket launch, right? (Actually, I am just looking for glamour...). 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/333CA980-3EFD-4CD1-BA54-6D643F3A9BB0%40gmail.com.

[Steve]

Bill. your compulsive disposition could probably be treated with the right medication, but I think you have it worked out perfectly.  You've assembled a stable of  impressively curated bikes and you are clearly dedicated to enjoying them --- my hat's off to that!  

Steve in AVL

[Dorothy C]

Bill, do you mean you put 100 on one bike at a time for the year, then set it aside until each bike has been ridden 100 miles each ( or 200 miles for the top two bikes) ?

My little peccadillo is keeping a spreadsheet of how I got to work all year, with timings from my house to the station if by bike, and a note of which bike I took, because I just use an Apple watch.  Possiblities are car / train / walk; bike / train / bike ; or  car / train / bike, or drive the whole way. So far this year, I haven’t driven all the way to work and back once, it is a 23 mile round trip. Weather permitting I try to do bike / train / bike mostly. I drove 4 times in 2024, I go to the office every day. 

Spreadsheet keeps a tally of how many car miles I avoided, last year’s total was around 4500 miles saved. 
Hey I have to do something to justify a fleet of five Rivs, six if you count the 47cm Roadini which is a bit small for me ;)

[Bill Lindsay]

No, I rarely ride the same bike even twice in a row.  It's more like having a closet full of options and musing "what bike do I feel like riding today?"  The mileage status of each bike determines how many are available in the closet that day.  I don't have a traditional every-day work-commute.  The closest thing I have to a commute is my ~12 mile coffee run to Vine Street Peet's.  

I like your mixing up of your multi-modal commute and the big picture negative-space accomplishment of "miles-not-driven".  That's genius.

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Leah Peterson]



Bill Lindsay is a self-professed Bike Clothes Horse with a plethora of cute bike outfits being held captive to Bill Lindsay’s Arbitrary Rules that he cannot change. Bill Lindsay would have to go to Bill Lindsay to change the Rules, and not even Bill Lindsay is brave enough for THAT. 

Leah Peterson, a known lover of cute bike outfits, and first-rate bossypants, is unafraid of her Big RivBros (well, maybe a little afraid of Bill Lindsay) and would like nothing more than to get into Bill Lindsay’s closet and rearrange his cute bike outfits and his mileage pyramid. She would like to move Bill’s Rocket Charlie to the top position, weight him down with some colorful bits, toss out a few of those imposters (several non-Rivs will have to go!) and replace them with a paddle of Platypuses in a rainbow of colors to really brighten Bill Lindsay’s Bike Outfits up and round it all out. Then she would like a photo shoot.

Fortunately for Bill Lindsay, Leah Peterson lives several timezones away and his closet is probably safe for now.

Leah

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9dcda03f-2a03-4aa2-a511-44180e348003n%40googlegroups.com.

[Bill Lindsay]

That would be fun to have a bike stylist who just picks my bike and my 'Fit for today and sends me on my way...

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Jason Fuller]

One thing is for sure: there is only one Bill Lindsay.  I too am impressed by the level of organization, not to mention the mileage.  I don't have the same ambition, though I do meticulously track my per-bike mileage as well and very much enjoy keeping those numbers in mind.  I have per-year mileage goals for each bike as well, though both my mileage and quiver are paltry by comparison. 

Last night I rode over the bridge a few miles from home to beta test a route I plan to take some folks on in a few days. I ended up off-trail both on purpose and by accident at various points; this was the accidental one. Hard not to get distracted with this forest around me, though.  

 

[Ryan]

lovely photo as usual, Jason. Your Bombadil looks totally at home with that green. And yes, Bill is definitely one-of-a-kind

[Leah Peterson]

Also, for clarity’s sake, Bill said his stable is like a closet full of outfits and he has to choose which one to wear [use] any given day according to the Rules. My use of “Cute Bike Outfits” refers to Bill’s BIKES in his closet. Don’t come to me with actual bike clothing questions. I have no idea!

On Apr 15, 2025, at 4:48 PM, Leah Peterson <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:



[Bill Lindsay]

Fashion!  Here's a photo or two of Lord Charles with his lovely new-used White Industries VBC crankset on there:

Cranks

Bike

My latest indulgence on the cute bike clothes front has been cycling specific button up shirts.  I've got four or five Ostroy Resort Shirts, and just bought two more button up bike shirts at REI by maker FlyLow.  They're cute!

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Dorothy C]

I would love one, but I feel as I already have two Roadinis, a tigged with Wavies and a lugged with Noodles, that my bike stable is already well provided for for that kind of riding. ESpecially as I don’t go on club rides

[Bill Lindsay]

"She would like to move Bill’s Rocket Charlie to the top position"

That's totally allowed when the mileage tiers ratchet up.  It's kind of like musical chairs; when I add the 2600 mile level up on top, there's nothing technically stopping me from just riding Lord Charles exclusively for the next three months and putting him at that 2600 mile level.  I've got a little bit of leapfrogging planned, but as that plan sits, I've just got three bikes that will stay put, allowing three other bikes to leapfrog those spots.  Lord Charles is one of those.  It'll leapfrog over my Hetchins townie, to the 200 mile level, while the Hetchins stays put at 100.  

I think that's what some people end up doing: They have a number of bikes, but get excited about a brand new bike, ride that bike exclusively and fall out of love with one or more of the "old" bikes and get rid of them: "It's just not getting ridden anymore..."  

I rode Lord Charles today.  I drove my car down to the shop, and rode Lord Charles back up the hill.  It's a dreamy bike.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Leah Peterson]

Bill, 

So is there really no bike that you just favor above all others and want to ride outside of the rules? You’re never tempted to say, “Ok, this (insert name) bike needs another 500 miles buuuuutttttt, I’m running off with Lord Charlie for the foreseeable future…. There is really no supreme favorite? 

I don’t even like having 4 choices. I have 4 bikes and that’s 1 too many. The mermaid bike is my least favorite and it sits. Actually, maybe that’s why you make The Rules - to avoid choice paralysis. You have a system and you follow it. 

My bikes are all late models so your theory about people getting excited about new bikes and selling off old bikes might apply to me. I have sold a Betty and a Clem L. In my defense, a lot has changed as I’ve learned more about the type of rider I am and what I want to do on the bike. I don’t have a system, but I have purpose bikes. Well, they are supposed to be, but the Platy Trio is pretty interchangeable. Everyone had clear roles but they all got messed up when Charlie came.

Speaking of him (he is such a scoundrel), Randi Jo et all sent his custom-color bag and it arrived today. Now I can give back my younger son’s RJ bag!

L

On Apr 16, 2025, at 12:31 PM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

"She would like to move Bill’s Rocket Charlie to the top position"

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c06ffe0b-fd11-4d28-b44b-b27e8ce64e87n%40googlegroups.com.

[Bill Lindsay]

If there is a supreme favorite, it is favorite because of the act of self-expression that a build represents for me.  I put a lot of myself into each of my builds and my current stable really has zero duds from that standpoint.  Each of them has a lot of me in them but the one build that has the most of me in it is Bambi.  

https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/albums/72157720131270829/

Is it a fat tire road bike?  A gravel bike?  An all road randonneur?  It's a lot of those things.  Beyond that it has a narrower Q-factor than 99.99% of bikes made in the last half-century.  That's probably the bike I love the most.  That's the bike I guarantee I'll never sell.  What's the rush, riding it?  I'll have it forever.  We've got time...

BL in EC

[Leah Peterson]

Finally got out on Charlie for a proper club ride yesterday. Oh my gosh, the skies blackened and dumped on us just minutes into our ride. This was NOT in the forecast, but…Michigan. Anyway, suddenly there was thunder and lightning and this has not happened to me before. Well, what they apparently do in Michigan is knock on strangers’ doors and ask to be let in their garages! 

Charlie has fenders, and oh, how I hand wrung about fenders. I wanted to keep him Pure Road Bike but then I also know we have wet roads…well, I was ever so grateful to have fenders yesterday! And so was whoever was behind me. The rest of us got “rooster tails” to the face for 20-some miles. Road water. In your mouth. Gross.

Charlie was trashed at the end and I had to take him to a manual car wash and gently hose him off. I wasn’t looking much better than he was. But that was because of other people’s bikes!

He rode as nice as could be, even though we fought a lot of wind and conditions were not ideal. I think he did better than my Platy would have done. I’m really glad to have a Charlie Gallop.

L

On Apr 16, 2025, at 4:03 PM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

If there is a supreme favorite, it is favorite because of the act of self-expression that a build represents for me.  I put a lot of myself into each of my builds and my current stable really has zero duds from that standpoint.  Each of them has a lot of me in them but the one build that has the most of me in it is Bambi.  

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6aa0977c-55c6-4039-9d00-c4c47660ef6bn%40googlegroups.com.

[Ryan]

That's what we do in Manitoba, too. Lightening is nothing to mess around with

Love the matching Keen sandals

[Bill Lindsay]

In honor of Leah's rain club ride, I took Lord Charles out on a proper road ride today.  I had considered doing a Diablo Summit, but instead decided to knock out the next route of the East Bay Bike Trails book that my daughter gave me for Christmas.  Next in the book was ride 7A, which was a 27 mile loop through the Berkeley Hills.  Rather than drive and park near the start point at the landmark Claremont Hotel, instead I rode out my front door through Berkeley so I could stop and pay my respects to Jitensha Studio, which is losing their storefront.  

https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/54461661667

It was cool to start (high 40s) but looked like it might get into the 60s by the end of the ride.  It had been a while since I did the climb up Claremont to Grizzly Peak.  Normally I treat Claremont as the shortcut DOWN if I'm in a hurry.  It's quite steep, with the steepest bits getting over 15%.  Lord Charles handled it just fine though, and it was the beginning of the ride, and it was a good way to get warm.  After climbing up Claremont and Grizzly Peak the route passed the famous Steam Trains and dropped down South Park into Tilden.  South Park is another steep road, and in the early days of Strava, death wish riders would take huge risks battling for the KOM down this hill.  It's not hard to get over 50MPH.  I picked one of the safer sections to let Charlie run, and took it up to ~68kph.  I'm not completely dialed on my descending position on a flat bar road bike, but the stability of the bike definitely was "like a Riv".  

After South Park I headed out Wildcat Canyon to San Pablo Dam Road and took that through Orinda.  There Toshi passed me with a small group and said hello.  He was on his green Riv Custom, fresh off his 400k last weekend and looking sharp in Grizly Peak Cyclists kit.  SPDR became Moraga and then I turned right on Canyon and then up Pinehurst, another steep climb.  Before that I tried to grab a springtime green hills photo:

https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/54462855130

On the climb two different roadies on standard-issue carbon complimented my bike.  After that steep climb the route followed Skyline to Old Tunnel Road and back down into Oakland/North Berkeley.  I was going to stop by Jitensha Studio again and hopefully catch Natsumi or Hiroshi there in the store so I could buy something for the last time, but today is "CAL Day" and the whole campus area was a total zoo.  I sort of avoided the area and went home.  43 miles 4200ft of climbing and a lovely day on the bike.  Lord Charles is a solid road bike, and I'm happy to have him in my stable.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Leah Peterson]

That is SO much climbing. And a lot of miles. I have questions.

See, Lord Charles is set up so differently than Charlie (that scoundrel) and I want to know things. 

Like, is that all the water you had? Are you carrying extra on your person? Because with that many miles and feet of climbing I’m requiring more water. 

Where is your emergency food? In that tiny bag? What is in there?

What about clothing? You said it started in the 40s and was warming up to the 60s - what did you do with whatever layer you must have shed? 

Lastly, 68KPH?!?!? No. Absolutely not. I fear Lord Charlie is liable to shake himself loose and fall into pieces beneath you! Terrifying! 

I have too much crap and I’m trying to pare down. But I look at the tiny little pouch which is all anyone else has on group rides and it stresses me out. Too much stuff in the bags, yes, but GUESS WHO HAD TOILET PAPER FOR US on that ride when there wasn’t any in the bathrooms!

Actually, as I type this, I am rigging up a cyclometer on Charlie. I want to know from start to end of his lifespan how many miles we got together. The red bike has one, too. This was an idea I took from our own Pam, who is upwards of 90k on her tiny 2011 Betty Foy. 

So much for paring down. I’m still adding stuff.

Leah

On Apr 19, 2025, at 4:39 PM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

In honor of Leah's rain club ride, I took Lord Charles out on a proper road ride today.  I had considered doing a Diablo Summit, but instead decided to knock out the next route of the East Bay Bike Trails book that my daughter gave me for Christmas.  Next in the book was ride 7A, which was a 27 mile loop through the Berkeley Hills.  Rather than drive and park near the start point at the landmark Claremont Hotel, instead I rode out my front door through Berkeley so I could stop and pay my respects to Jitensha Studio, which is losing their storefront.  

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/41aa23ee-0a2b-45f6-a6e5-f2e2c80da983n%40googlegroups.com.

[Bill Lindsay]

Like, is that all the water you had? Are you carrying extra on your person? 

Lord Charles is minimalist, so it's only got one water bottle cage.  I refilled it once on the ride.  

Where is your emergency food? In that tiny bag? What is in there?  

I had a cortado at Domingo Peet's.  I didn't pack any food.  I generally don't eat if it's under 50 miles.  On long rides I put food in around every 50km, but that food at the first 50km usually feels like I'm forcing it in.  

What about clothing? You said it started in the 40s and was warming up to the 60s - what did you do with whatever layer you must have shed? 

I wore a lightish long sleeve wool jersey, so I didn't take anything off.  I had MUSA knickers over bib shorts.  I wore a light wool base layer as well.  It was just barely enough clothes to start.  I got good and sweaty on the last climb, but wool insulates fine when wet.  I thought about stowing my reflective vest in a jersey pocket, but my wife prefers me to remain visible at all times.  

Lastly, 68KPH?!?!? 

Absolutely!

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Richard Rose]

It sounds like a perfect bike ride. Why do I always want to ride where other folks ride? I mean, it sounds so good.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 19, 2025, at 7:26 PM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Toshi Takeuchi]

Bill, it was great to see you yesterday, and I can attest to all  that the Charlie is a very handsome bike! Are you planning on doing the Marin Mountains next Saturday? Apparently they were forced to make the route harder, but they are giving more time under gravel randonee rules. I am hoping that for you, more time, despite the extra hills, will be welcome. I am rooting for you to finish that beast of a ride! (Have some kind thoughts for me the following weekend for the 600k!)

Best wishes,

Toshi

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[Ryan]

Bill's cafe racer versus Leah's Gold Wing

[Joe Bernard]

Ryan, yes! For reference..

[Leah Peterson]

Why is this so accurate?!?!?

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 21, 2025, at 11:31 AM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ryan, yes! For reference..

<Screenshot_20250421_082759.jpg>

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<Screenshot_20250421_082759.jpg>

<Screenshot_20250421_082920.jpg>

[Bill Lindsay]

Thanks for the encouragement but Marin Mountains is something I have to affirmatively commit to WAY in advance.  I don't think it's in the cards for me this year.  My general fitness is decent and my weight is in a good spot, but I would have wanted to do a lot more off road hill repeats in preparation, plus I've got a nasty case of poison oak on my legs distracting me, plus my Black Mountain Model Zero is in the stand and I don't particularly feel like working on it.  It's halfway between an old setup that is broken versus a new setup that is incomplete.  

I think my better move for this weekend may be to just volunteer.  Even then I still want to get this poison oak under control.  It's gross!

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Doug H.]

I think it is just about handlebar reach and style.

Doug

[R. Alexis]

Leah,

You are cracking me up!!!!! Lol!!!!

Is it me or did you change out your grips? 

Thanks,

Reginald Alexis

[Leah Peterson]

Hi Reginald,

The blond leather grips? Yes, Deb at Rivet Cycle Works was at the Philly Bike Expo and was selling them. I thought they would be perfect on Charlie in that color. I have another pair in a rich chestnut color on my raspberry Platypus.

L

On Apr 21, 2025, at 1:02 PM, R. Alexis <noj...@webtv.net> wrote:

Leah,

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ff4bc660-1059-48db-9793-9bc616d5e271n%40googlegroups.com.

[Toshi Takeuchi]

Hi Bill,

Poison oak is the worst. I'm usually very careful, but many years ago I got a stem across the knee during a bike ride when I was riding on a fire trail. I missed it because it was the winter and it didn't have any leaves on the stem. I could hardly walk for 2 weeks as the boils became a weeping mess and I was getting cortisone shots that did nothing. I'm glad it's not as bad for you. SFR is always grateful for volunteers, and we need to keep some goals on the list to look forward to. I'm keeping the Marin Mountains off my list until you finish it. I'm thinking if Bill finishes, then I can contemplate trying it, so I'll let you lead the way!

Toshi

[G Ram]

My lovely King Charles atop Montebello road (south bay area).

[Leah Peterson]

Oh! Another one on here! I love this Charlie, G Ram, and would love to hear more about it.

Leah

On Apr 22, 2025, at 1:21 PM, G Ram <grbi...@gmail.com> wrote:



My lovely King Charles atop Montebello road (south bay area).

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<IMG_6248.jpeg>

[George Schick]

Can't you guys go to a doc-in-a-box and whine for a prednisone shot when this happens?

[Matt Isaacs]

I posted a side shot of my Charlie a couple weeks ago, but it seems to have been lost in the ether. Trying again. Loving the bike more and more. It climbs surprisingly well.

Matt

On Monday, April 21, 2025 at 2:22:40 PM UTC-7 ttoshi wrote:

[Brian Choy]

I was fortunate enough to test ride a Charlie Gallop at Riv HQ recently and entered the experience without expectations. Granted, this was my first time trying a Riv. I had my sights set on a Homer but there wasn't one available to try, so I grabbed a CHG to test its Homer-like tubing. While I wasn't initially a fan of the CHG due to the top tube (purely aesthetic for personal preference), everything changed once I started riding it. Not that speed was the goal, but the bike felt much faster than the Roaduno and Platypus that I also test rode. I was instantly sold on this bike and if I weren't on the market for a Homer, the CHG would be second in line.

Hope to see more CHGs in this thread!

[Mackenzy Albright]

I've been seeing such incredible builds lately!  Both Leah and Matt's bikes are particularly inspiring, Kudos. I love the playfulness. It reminds me of  the golden days of bmx/fixed gear days with flamboyant colors (or just color coordination) and uniquely outfitted components. 

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Ok, here’s what I have decided after Monday night’s club ride. Charlie is easy and breezy and quick on the draw, yes. But in headwind, he gives me the same struggle as a Platypus.  I am not fooling the wind with Charlie. 

I’ll tell you a story. Skip to the end if you are here for the nuts and bolts and not for the tea. 

I looked around at my group for the evening and there were many of the usual suspects. There was one new rider, a male, and he appeared young. Was he a kid? You know how you just can’t tell how old people are once you reach a certain age? Well, I dread making that mistake. “Hi, are you new?” I asked. 

He smiled at me with a mouthful of braces. “Yes! This is my first time here. My name is D [using in place of his real name].” 

This is somebody’s baby!

“What grade are you in?”

“I’m in 8th, and I’m 14.” 

Ooookkkkkkk. I have never seen a kid on our club rides. “Are your parents here?” 

“No, my little sister is. She’s riding with another group. Mom took my brother to a soccer game, and Dad can’t be around people because of his immune system. It could kill him.”

When you encounter them outside, kids are communal property, I say. We gotta all take care of them. This is probably why I get picked to be the baby nurse at work, come to think of it. I love the cherubs. Bring me the cherubs! So I pair up with D and we end up taking the first pull of the ride. D tells me he is truly a mountain biker, but he knows how to road ride. He’s training 130-140 miles a week. We are in a 17 mph headwind and I am dying. I was counting on Charlie to really make life easy for me, because Charlie is a road bike, and road bikes are supposed to have advantages over Platypuses, but I look at my heart rate and it is 182. D is chatting away about all his goals and his homeschooling and I am gasping. After several miles of this, I say, “I am ready to fall to the back. Are you coming or do you want to stay and pull?”

“I’m going to stay here and keep the pace up.”

And he did, y’all. He drug us over hill and dale, and we suffered the whole time. For most of the 27 mile ride. I kept trying to feed him at stop signs figuring he must be about dead but he never accepted any food. And then he shot ahead like a slingshot at the end and beat everyone home. “Our KID!” I said to the woman beside me. “I know,” she said, “but he’s experienced on the roads.” I watched trucks pass our group and then approach D, worrying they’d hit him.

“HE’S FOURTEEN HE’S A BABY,” I croaked. He made it back fine.

Back to Charlie. When my heart was 182, my friends’ hearts were in the 150s. After we got out of the wind I could just fly without effort on Charlie. I have decided that the weight of my bike, the flat pedals, upright bars - all that stuff - doesn’t make me slow. But wind is the mortal enemy of a Rivendell, I think, even if it’s a road bike. If it’s windy, it’s work and it’s hard to be fast. I still say Charlie is otherwise a fast bike and great fun to ride.

Leah

[Eric Daume]

Stay tuned for our next episode, when Leah buys a drop bar Roadini. :)

Eric

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[Toshi Takeuchi]

I can commiserate with high winds! For my Bosco bars, I place my hands on the front of the handlebars near the stem and tuck down--not ideal for pacelining because my brakes are at the end of the handlebar. On my Albastache, it is wrapped, and I've placed my brake levers at the front, so I can use the most aerodynamic option as the default. Don't give up on the Charlie yet!

Toshi

[Doug H.]

Leah,

On a group ride a few years ago, okay maybe 12 years ago, one of the guys brought his son along. His son was on a full suspension mountain bike and we were all on carbon road bikes.  He kept up with us pretty easily and rode a wheelie about half the time. We weren't pushing it by any means but it seems that youth always wins out. I do agree with you that wind is the ultimate speed killer and an upright position catches the wind like a sail. With drop bars in the drops you really can be out of the wind. When I had drop bars I would enjoy getting down into the drops now and then to stretch out my back. I don't remember any specific group rides in windy conditions but I have ridden in the wind many times solo. I would almost rather ride in the rain that wind...almost.

Doug

[Jay]

Great story Leah.  I've never ridden with a kid, and when I started reading your story I wasn't sure how it would go (like would he not be able to keep up, out of shape, asking you to call his mom to pick him up; would he leave you and others in the dust; so many things can happen).  It was entertaining.

Regarding wind, the bike and its weight, I think it's more about aerodynamics (how much frontal area exposed to the wind, for one).  Even though I ride weekly with a buddy who is faster (more aero, lighter bike), he knows I'm more upright on my Roadini (drop bars level w/saddle) and is okay going a few km slower than he would like.  The camaraderie is worth it!  When I ride along, I'm a few km/hr slower, so I'm pedaling harder to keep up, he's going slower, but it's all good.  If I put an Albatross bar on the bike and was 15-20 degrees more upright, I think I would really struggle to keep up.  That said, I have a bike with alt bars and I'm more upright, and I like riding like that, just not when I'm trying to go fast or in a group ride.  Lastly, comfort.  If being a little more stretched out would not work for you, don't do it in any case.  Whatever works for you, keeps you happy and riding more, that's the ticket.

[Ted Durant]

On Wednesday, May 14, 2025 at 4:16:23 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

But wind is the mortal enemy of a Rivendell, I think, even if it’s a road bike. 

Wind is an impediment to speed on any bicycle. The stronger the apparent wind (either from speed or headwind) the bigger the impediment. The disadvantage of a large frontal area and otherwise increased Cd goes up with the square of the apparent wind velocity. You've chosen a bike and position that have a great deal more Cd than what most people think of as a road bike and position. It's certainly not anything like my Rivendells, so I don't think it's fair to generalize your experience to all Rivendell bikes..

Grant once published a photo of himself descending Diablo sitting bolt upright and wearing a big sombrero. He titled the article "In Favor of Blowing Off Aerodynamics". You've discovered the limits of that philosophy.  

Ted Durant

Milwaukee, WI USA

[Leah Peterson]

Oh lighten up, Ted. Have a glass of wine and then read my stories. They’re mostly fun and hardly dogmatic. You know this by now.

Leah

Sent from my iPhone

On May 14, 2025, at 8:32 PM, Ted Durant <tedd...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Patrick Moore]

You read Ted wrong. He wasn’t pontificating, just being factual.

Ted is entirely right. Wind slows any cyclist down, but it slows cyclists with tall and wide profiles down a lot more than those low and narrow. Grant is wrong on this one.

I ride fixed gears into 20 mph and higher head or quartering winds regularly. Thank God for 38 cm drop bars. I actually enjoy this, in moderation.

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[Toshi Takeuchi]

C'mon y'all, Grant was a bike racer. He knows that surface area in the wind slows you down. He was just showing us that you can have fun riding down Mt. Diablo with a sombrero on your head.

If Grant were riding uphill with gale-force winds, then he'd probably put an extra parachute behind him and call it extra exercise that he enjoys having anyway.

In fun,

Toshi

[Daniel Grilli]

My experience matches yours, Jay. 

When I’m riding with my Ortho-bar Appaloosa, I struggle to keep up with others on drop bar gravel bikes on the paved sections of a ride. 

On my Noodle bar Roadini, I keep up with others on ‘road’ bikes on a social ride just fine. My friend on an upright bike with Jones bars did not, and struggled to the point of it being unpleasant. The rest of us were not struggling or even trying particularly hard at all. 

When I ride my Appaloosa with that same friend, we are perfectly matched. 

All that is to say there are swings and roundabouts, apples and oranges, horses for courses or whatever. No bike is good at everything and there are no wrong answers, only trade offs to be had!

I’d love to try a Charlie, sounds so fun. 

Regards,

Daniel

15/5/2025 9:36、Jay <jason....@gmail.com>のメール:

Great story Leah.  I've never ridden with a kid, and when I started reading your story I wasn't sure how it would go (like would he not be able to keep up, out of shape, asking you to call his mom to pick him up; would he leave you and others in the dust; so many things can happen).  It was entertaining.

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[Leah Peterson]

Daniel - you’d love Charlie. I actually feel (in normal conditions) that I do zip around quicker than on a Platypus. 

Both Daniel and Jay: 

How fast are your road rides, out of curiosity? Because I never get slowed down by my bars in rides UNLESS there is wind. But you’re experiencing something different - that your upright bikes are always slower than the drop bar bikes. Which makes me think you must be a lot faster and that’s the difference. I ride in 16-17 mph groups. But I’ve never tried to hang with the 18+ mph guys. I bet I couldn’t hang with them. And I don’t know if that’s me or my bars that’s the problem…

On May 14, 2025, at 9:15 PM, Daniel Grilli <gril...@gmail.com> wrote:

My experience matches yours, Jay. 

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[Jay]

You're faster than me, Leah.  I rode with my friend last Sunday.  I had my Roadini with lighter wheels, 30mm tires.  I averaged 25k/hr.  60km distance, 500M elevation.  I felt like I was going fast.  I've never tried a ride of that distance with upright position, mainly because that bike isn't what I reach to for such rides (2.2" wheels, mainly used on trails).  You're just a speed demon, so a windy day hurts you more than me ;-)

[Ted Durant]

On May 14, 2025, at 8:04 PM, Toshi Takeuchi <tto...@gmail.com> wrote:

He was just showing us that you can have fun riding down Mt. Diablo with a sombrero on your head.

But that’s exactly the point. He was, at the time he published that article, heavily in the development of the un-racer ethos which has been driving his bike designs over the last 15 years. Crusing down Diablo wearing a sombrero and joining a fast group road ride are very different kinds of riding. Grant wouldn’t bring his upright bike and sombrero to a group road ride of the kind that’s been described here. 

Of course, he wouldn’t bring any kind of bike to that kind of ride, because that’s not the kind of riding he enjoys anymore.

Leah wrote:

 I never get slowed down by my bars in rides UNLESS there is wind. But you’re experiencing something different - that your upright bikes are always slower than the drop bar bikes. Which makes me think you must be a lot faster and that’s the difference. I ride in 16-17 mph groups. But I’ve never tried to hang with the 18+ mph guys. I bet I couldn’t hang with them. And I don’t know if that’s me or my bars that’s the problem…

That lines up well with my experience, which is that the jump from 16 to 20 mph is exactly where the wind drag becomes a noticeable factor. So, 16mph no wind is a reasonable effort in an upright position, but 20mph is a major effort and definitely requires a low, flat back for me to sustain for any period of time. Just remember, adding a mere 10mph straight-on headwind takes you from 16 to the equivalent of 26. So, pretty much any amount of headwind makes sustaining 16mph in an upright position (on a flat road, not coasting down Diablo!) a real challenge.

Ted Durant

Milwaukee WI USA

[Leah Peterson]

Nah, Jay, you’re plenty fast. I’m riding 16-17  in a group ride. But riding with a friend I bet 25k/hr would be about right! It really does make a difference with a group pulling you along. I don’t go that fast on solo rides for SURE. 

On May 14, 2025, at 9:44 PM, Jay <jason....@gmail.com> wrote:

You're faster than me, Leah.  I rode with my friend last Sunday.  I had my Roadini with lighter wheels, 30mm tires.  I averaged 25k/hr.  60km distance, 500M elevation.  I felt like I was going fast.  I've never tried a ride of that distance with upright position, mainly because that bike isn't what I reach to for such rides (2.2" wheels, mainly used on trails).  You're just a speed demon, so a windy day hurts you more than me ;-)

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[Doug H.]

I don't focus on speed or at least try not to. I use Strava to track my rides and it is tempting to check my speed on similar routes with other local riders. But, that can be a joy killer so I really do try to as Grants says, Just Ride. This is easier said than done for me.

Doug

[Jason Fuller]

Headwinds are almost the only time I use the drops on my drop bars. They truly do make all the difference in this scenario, as I suspect the difference between your effort and that of your fellow club riders is all up to aerodynamics. 

[Piaw Na]

On my Noodle bar Roadini, I keep up with others on ‘road’ bikes on a social ride just fine. My friend on an upright bike with Jones bars did not, and struggled to the point of it being unpleasant. The rest of us were not struggling or even trying particularly hard at all. 

Drop bars by themselves are not magic. It's a combination of the lower frontal profile and the position they afford that lets you use the most powerful muscles in your body to propel the bike. When my wife switched from her Cheviot to her Ritchey Road Logic with drop bars, we did a fitting. The changes were significant. She went from 13mph on the Cheviot position to 20mph on the Ritchey Road Logic, and 8 mile rides to 60 mile rides within a few months (granted the Ritchey is also a good 10 pounds lighter than the Cheviot). It's difficult to get people who're used to the upright position to try what looks like an uncomfortable racing style position, but being able to use your glutes in addition to your quads really makes a big difference. That's also why bike fit matters --- you won't be able to sustain that position if it wasn't comfortable or anatomically compatible with your body.

[Patrick Moore]

+ 1 for drop bar comfort when properly set up. I just took the dog out for a very slow ~2 mile jog (the dog jogged, I rode) on the Matthews drop bar dirt road bike. Even tho’ I was riding at only 8-10 mph I was once again struck at how comfortable the drop bar setup is with sufficient saddle setback so that your torso basically holds itself up and leaves your hands “floating” over the bar. The bar is 2-3 cm higher than on my pavement bikes but the stem is also 2 cm longer so the overall position is largely the same.

+1 too for the added action of other muscles if the bar is positioned low enough.

Now going out for a ride without the dog on another drop bar bike ...

On Thu, May 15, 2025 at 11:25 AM Piaw Na <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:

…  It’s difficult to get people who're used to the upright position to try what looks like an uncomfortable racing style position, but being able to use your glutes in addition to your quads really makes a big difference. That's also why bike fit matters --- you won't be able to sustain that position if it wasn't comfortable or anatomically compatible with your body.

[Richard Rose]

Patrick wrote “Grand is wrong on this one.” Now I do not follow Grant’s writings all that closely but did he actually say that a very upright rider is not at a disadvantage to a more “aerodynamic” positioned rider into the wind? Or, did he say something more along the lines of “who cares?”. 

If it’s the latter what did he get wrong?

Richard - used to ride long, fast pace lines. Doesn’t any more. 

Sent from my iPhone

On May 14, 2025, at 8:47 PM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Ted Durant]

On May 16, 2025, at 3:31 PM, Richard Rose <rmro...@gmail.com> wrote:

Patrick wrote “Grand is wrong on this one.” Now I do not follow Grant’s writings all that closely but did he actually say that a very upright rider is not at a disadvantage to a more “aerodynamic” positioned rider into the wind? Or, did he say something more along the lines of “who cares?”. 

If it’s the latter what did he get wrong?

Richard - used to ride long, fast pace lines. Doesn’t any more. 

I don’t think Grant was wrong. He was just advocating for a slow down, enjoy the scenery, un-racer bicycling philosophy. If you’re not trying to ride more than 15-16mph average (ignoring wind), aerodynamics don’t matter.

If you regularly ride in the kind of wind Patrick does, you might find 5mph to be that limit. That may or may not matter to you.