N minus 2 plus 1

[DaveS]

Good evening, my name is Dave and I have a problem, which it appears that many others here do as well!  I am reviewing my stable and find that I have ended up building four of essentially the same bike.....first, a Gen 1 Fargo, fits great, with dirt drops, and spare wheel set with knobbies, the second, the freak bike, and XL troll with heavy duty DH wheels, Velo Orange Daija bars, front shock, Chris King, and related component builds, a jones bike 29 plus and a big 60 cm bombadil built up with racks, Velo orange porteau bars and related components.....the bombadil and the fargo are my primary road rides, primary on the Erie Canal and similar paved/dirt trails in the area (upstate NY).  The Jones is used as an off road, and snow bike fitted with a fat front and the Troll was built up with spare parts to use for CX.  Unfortunately, when I built them I was about 150 pounds larger than I am now....which brings me to my question and need for guidance.  I am going to sell the Troll (-1) plus or minus the Bombadil or Jones (-2) and am considering replacing with a Homer or Sam.....my thoughts is that that would be a more road/paved fun bike f or longer riders, or Random type rides now that I am much smaller.  The overlap that I see is that the Fargo and Bombadil would likely fit the same niche, but are not as sporty.  So, my question is, is there that much of a ride difference from the Bombadil into a more country and road type Riv?  I know that many of you have multiple Riv's, and use them in many different ways...but the overlap in the fleet seems to beg the consideration.  Appreciate any input, this has been a great board to learn from and you all got me into the Bombadil.  And if anyone is interested in the XL Troll, let me know!  it will need a good home!  

[Deacon Patrick]

I love the variety and spread of my Quickbeam and Hunqapillar. Ignoring the difference of single speed v. derailure, the road geo of the Quickbeam makes for a spirited ride on all the roads and trails around here that is a very different feel from the Hunqapillar. Though speed isn't spectacularly different, even when my mammoth is kitted out with panniers for errands or bikepacking.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Patrick Moore]

Having owned a Fargo set up with drops and more or less roadlike gearing, and a Ram, and a Sam, I would say:

Sell the Fargo.

Keep the Bombadil! (I've not owned one, but I know the Riv feel.)

Sell the Troll.

Keep the Jones (I'm saying this only because of the 100% favorable reports; I've not ridden one.)

Buy at least a Homer, and maybe even a Ram or, perhaps, a Roadeo or Roadini. IMO, the Sam is too hefty for spirited riding on pavement alone, or for pavement and very occasional light dirt.

Basically, the Bombadil and Jones are classics to keep. Add a sufficiently more road like bike. At least, that's what I'd do. I know that my Riv Roads are fully capable of handling firm dirt and gravel; nay, they are fun on firm dirt and gravel; so the other bike I've added (besides the folder) is a bike that has 50 mm tires (can fit 60s or greater) with a road like setup (road tubing, road bar and controls, road gearing 'cept a bit lower).

On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 4:50 PM, DaveS <dst...@nycap.rr.com> wrote:

Good evening, my name is Dave and I have a problem, which it appears that many others here do as well!  I am reviewing my stable and find that I have ended up building four of essentially the same bike.....first, a Gen 1 Fargo, fits great, with dirt drops, and spare wheel set with knobbies, the second, the freak bike, and XL troll with heavy duty DH wheels, Velo Orange Daija bars, front shock, Chris King, and related component builds, a jones bike 29 plus and a big 60 cm bombadil built up with racks, Velo orange porteau bars and related components.....the bombadil and the fargo are my primary road rides, primary on the Erie Canal and similar paved/dirt trails in the area (upstate NY).  The Jones is used as an off road, and snow bike fitted with a fat front and the Troll was built up with spare parts to use for CX.  Unfortunately, when I built them I was about 150 pounds larger than I am now....which brings me to my question and need for guidance.  I am going to sell the Troll (-1) plus or minus the Bombadil or Jones (-2) and am considering replacing with a Homer or Sam.....my thoughts is that that would be a more road/paved fun bike f or longer riders, or Random type rides now that I am much smaller.  The overlap that I see is that the Fargo and Bombadil would likely fit the same niche, but are not as sporty.  So, my question is, is there that much of a ride difference from the Bombadil into a more country and road type Riv?  I know that many of you have multiple Riv's, and use them in many different ways...but the overlap in the fleet seems to beg the consideration.  Appreciate any input, this has been a great board to learn from and you all got me into the Bombadil.  And if anyone is interested in the XL Troll, let me know!  it will need a good home!  

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[Jay Connolly]

Keep the Jones, sell the Surly; keep the Bombadil, sell the Fargo. Buy a Roadini or a Roadeo, or something similar. Use the Jones for all rough tracks, snow, mud, and so on. Use the Bombadil for mixed surface rides, groomed gravel, light trails, and easy recreational rides. Buy a more Road-boasted bike for pushing yourself on the pavement.

I know the problem. In my enthusiasm for bikes I liked, I used to have a tendency to replicate them. Always this led to the realization that I had simply duplicated, but rarely improved, something I liked. I have a Jones Plus and would never sell it, though I may do what you've done and at a fat front tire to make it even more versatile. It's my mountain biking, single-track, and bikepacking rig (replaced a Fargo I used on the GDMBR in 2015). I have an Appaloosa set up with a relatively high drop bar and full racks, and it's incredibly comfortable for touring, for hauling, and for rose-smelling. I have a Sam Hillborne set up with a lower bar and no racks, and I ride that briskly for 1, 2, or 3 hours at a time. I think of it as my fitness bike. The Appaloosa and the Sam could be setup similarly, but they are completely different bikes the way I have them rigged.

Good luck with reconstructing your stable.

Jay

[Justin, Oakland]

This:

Keep the Jones, sell the Surly; keep the Bombadil, sell the Fargo. Buy a Roadini or a Roadeo, or something similar. Use the Jones for all rough tracks, snow, mud, and so on. Use the Bombadil for mixed surface rides, groomed gravel, light trails, and easy recreational rides. Buy a more Road-boasted bike for pushing yourself on the pavement.

Is perfect advice.

I have a Trek 710 (Road), Saluki (Mixed surface and Commuting and camping), Salsa El mar b plus (Trails real dirt and roughest Stuff). The Saluki is the "one bike" bike which would be similar to your Bombadil as you seem more dirt oriented in general.

That's a nice problem to have. I'd definitely look at a Roadeo or Roadini (the latter being BEAUTIFUL in person) or another similar lightweight go fast from a reputable place.

-J

[DaveS]

Thanks for the input. One thing to throw into the mix is that I am 6'3 and 260......even w losing a third of my former self.....so not sure if I am going to break things.

[Jay Connolly]

All the more reason to keep the Jones, in my view. You'd have to talk to Riv about tolerances. I'm 6'5" and 265, and in that context, the Sam is not a burly bike. Grant advised me that it would be just fine as a road bike but less suited to trail riding and loaded touring. It's a great road bike, for my purposes. The Jones is a great mountain bike, for my purposes.

Jay

[Patrick Moore]

+1. I myself would be happy with such a trio! (Well, almost as happy as with my present trio, but close.)

[Bill Lindsay]

Also agreeing with Jay, but the roadish bike should be a Sam or a Hilsen, in my opinion.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Chris Birkenmaier]

Partial answer here but I would not sell the Jones if I were you.  I have the Jones in Ti with 2" smooth tires and it is a comfortable and fast (!) bike that I ride on pavement.  Probably not its highest and best use ,of course, but I love it.

[Philip Williamson]

I'm 230, was 255, and wouldn't worry at all about breaking a Roadeo. I tend not to bash over stuff, though. I'm with everyone else: keep the Jones and Bombadil, add a road-oriented bike.

Philip
www.biketinker.com

[Tony DeFilippo]

I agree with the keep Jones and Bomba...

I owned a 56 Bomba alongside my 60 Saluki for over a year and was always surprised at how similar they felt. Honestly if set up the same I'd say handling was the same. The Saluki never felt noodly even when I was up at around 255lbs and the Bomba never felt overly heavy especially when wearing the 48mm SBH tires.

I replaced the Bomba with a Jones Plus, no regrets. And the Jones with 2.35" slicks is as fast feeling as my Saluki... When I go to a double crank from single on the Jones I may find I can even out pace the Saluki.

Between the Bomba and Jones you've got two wildly reconfigurable rides and they are both iconic visually... Pretty cool combo.

Tony

[DaveS]

Thanks everyone for the thoughts. Indeed the Fargo and Troll are for sale.

Bill I am curious why you suggested the Sam or AHH instead of the Roadini, as I am starting to think that 33's are a little small for a wide man......even given Riv's assurance that it will be fine.....the mental me has me riding some New England fall brevets with the Roadini and being wildly fast while the other me reminds that me that I am not a racer.......which makes the Sam the one

[Justin August]

If you aren't wed to wheelsize you should also think about the frame angles. Me, I'd look at what's available in fat 650b rubber.

-J

On Aug 6, 2017, 8:45 AM -0700, DaveS <dst...@nycap.rr.com>, wrote:

Thanks everyone for the thoughts. Indeed the Fargo and Troll are for sale.

Bill I am curious why you suggested the Sam or AHH instead of the Roadini, as I am starting to think that 33's are a little small for a wide man......even given Riv's assurance that it will be fine.....the mental me has me riding some New England fall brevets with the Roadini and being wildly fast while the other me reminds that me that I am not a racer.......which makes the Sam the one

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[dstein]

From one DaveS Jones' owner to another (and previous Hunqapillar owner ) that has gone through a lot of n-1+1-2+2+1-1+2-2+1's, here's my .02 (I haven't read the other comments):

I had a Hunqapillar, just sold it, but only because I got a second wheelset for the Jones to swap out between 2.3" road tires and 3" knobby tires and it covers all the ground the Hunq did (long explanation why I liked the Jones over the Hunqapillar, but both are super awesome bikes and it could have easily gone the other way). I found that the Hunqapillar, when setup as a road rider with rat trap pass tires and albastache bars was just as good/fast as a Sam that I briefly owned (and consequently sold because I felt it was way too similar). I haven't ridden a Homer (other than a parking lot ride at RivHQ), but the feeling I get is that it's slightly lighter/thinner tubing than the Sam, but otherwise rides the same (I kinda remember Grant saying something about not noticing which bike he was on once he was on it, but other comments on this group pointed to a noticeable difference, I'm gonna say it's negligible). 

I say keep the Jones and the Bombadil and sell the Fargo and Troll. Get some road tires for the bombabil (I can't recommend Schable G-One's enough) and have that be your all rounder, and leave the Jones as your main Mtn Bike, those big ass tires more than make up for the front shock you're missing on the Surly. Assuming you have knobbies for the Bombadil as well, you have two bikes that can go on trails very easily. 

That is N-2. If, after all that, you decide you still want something more sporty (I assuming this is for road rides), check out the Roadini. I highly recommend the Rosco Road if there's any left, as it can fit wider tires than the Roadini (I love love love mine and it took over as my go fast road bike with Schwalbe G-One 38 or 40MM tires). 

[Garth]

I have a Bombadil and custom sport-touring kinda bike from '99, non Riv but I had it made with 46cm. chainstays and extended head tube and long top tube. Alba bars on both. It steers distinctively different than the Bomba, more responsive to arm and upper body movement. The frame has more flex too, espcially the fork blades, it's like a shock absorber. Just different, I like both. I ride 45mm tires on the Bomba and 35mm road tires on the other. Again, just different and I like both. I ride both almost all on road, I consider it an either or kinda thing. I like both. Neither one is faster/slower or whatever, just each uniquely a representation of "bike". If I had to have one it would be the Bombadil or another frame that builds on the qualities of the Bomba. I feel so in tune with it, and it with me. The other bike I had made with the intention of riding with drop bars, in fact Alba bars didn't even exist back then. The BB height is bit higher and so with Alba bars set above saddle height, it feels a little odd sometimes.

Only you know what you feel most in tune with, but you do know. If your Bomba is a 60 in decent shape and considering selling, I am interested if you'd like to know. No other production Riv fits me right, but that one does, it's like a golden slipper. Ahahahaahahah!

[Bill Lindsay]

Dave S asked why I would recommend a Hillborne or Hilsen over a Roadini. 

I recommended that because in your OP you said you recently lost 150 pounds, and that you now weigh 260.  A 260 pound person who was recently a 410 pound human sounds to me like it would not be a bad idea getting a 1 to 2 pound heavier bike and having the room for 38 mm tires with fenders, and 42 mm tires without.  You could set up a very slick Sam Hillborne at ~24 pounds with nice 38mm tires, and do whatever brevet you like. 

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

[Jay Connolly]

I am the same weight and just LOVE the ride of my 62cm Sam on 44mm Compass treads.

Jay

[Philip Kim]

i would keep the jones and get a sam or homer. maybe keep the bombadil as a commuter / town bike.

On Tuesday, August 1, 2017 at 8:48:57 PM UTC-4, DaveS wrote:

[Garth]

I will add this about the sensation called "sporty" from this perspctive...... I find with 700c tires that tires in the 28-38mm range offer the best all around balance of everything. For road bikes, I grew up riding 27 x 1" to 1-1/4" tires and later raced on 700c 25mm tires. I have nothing but positive memories of such riding. The feel of a real race bike with even narrow wheels and tires is utter joy. So I give pause to this trend of wider is better, it's not, its just wider, another sensation of riding. The riding never changes however !

Everyone will understand this, when you feel joy spring from your heart, you can be doing anything and it will be joyous. The doing does not spring forth the joy, the doing happens because of it. The joy already existed and the doing became irresistable and literally burst forth ☺ Such is the living of Life.