Oudie N battery swelling issue fixed?

[John Johnson]

I'm aware of 3 Oudie N's being used by members of our Tucson club (there may be 1 or 2 more I haven't run into yet).  2 of the 3 have encountered the issue of the battery swelling and the case seams opening up.   I don't know if either experienced any extreme temperatures - it hasn't quite hit 100deg here yet but maybe they encountered a hot car or cockpit interior. 

I know this was an early issue for these devices.  Does anyone know if Naviter found a definitive cause and fix for this?

JJ

[kevin anderson]

I am not sure if it was fixed yet or not, I emailed Naviter and asked them about this issue, Knowing 2 people here in the South East that have had similar problems.  I asked them, because I have finally decided it's about time to get one, but this issue, and the lack of a couple of key things for racing are still not included.

They said that had had sold 10,000 and it was a known, but very rare issue.  I asked if it was fixed, but the question was basically deflected.  Does not seem very rare to me since I know two people personally,  and now you know two of three, not a good record.  

Your post may be influencing my decision, but my Oudie 2 is getting long in tooth.

Would be worth some more people emailing and specifically asking if the battery has been changed or not.  If you get any real information a report back would be appreciated.  

Kevin

92

[Moshe Braner]

Sometimes I wonder why we don't see more lithium pouch batteries swelling, catching fire, etc.  They are prone to that, and are present in every smartphone and so much else.  And they mostly come from a few large global factories.  If a manufacturer like Naviter happens to get a bad batch, what can they do?  Replace them and hope for the best.  If I had a device with a swelling battery I'd remove it right away.  Is the Oudie N battery user-replaceable?  (Rhetorical question.)

- Moshe  (happy with Tophat on an e-reader, and my phone has a replaceable battery)

[kevin anderson]

Moshe,

I agree, that it it certainly a possibility for these types of batteries to sell, but I have never known any friends that have had cell phone batteries swell, and with the two I know personally and the two at the other club, makes me suspect.  The number of cell phones far outweighs the Oudie N population.

92

[David Denman]

Having a decent amount of experience with LiPo batteries in model aircraft we generally see packs swell that have either been damaged physically, or left at high levels of charge for long periods or discharged too deeply.  

The Oudie N has a HUGE battery relative to other products so if you charge it to 100% and fly for two or three hours and then put it in the box for several weeks it is still at a high charge level and that could contribute to the swelling issue.  

LiPo's are happiest at a near 50% charge level (about 3.8 to 3.85 volts per cell).  I generally charge my Oudie N IGC to around 60-70% at max.  and fly 2.5 to 3.5 hours and don't recharge it when I am done.  It's generally about 55% by then.  I don't charge again until the day before I fly.  I have 7 year old 12S LiPo packs that are still fine.  I've also had some swell when near new when I charged them to 100%, didn't fly them down and forgot about them until months later and then found them swelled.

[kevin anderson]

David, what do you suggest for those of us that don't know hades of time, possible until the morning or even later in the to do with charging ?

Marketed as a super long battery life, so no need to install a cable in the glider.  

Does this mean we need to not really charge it up very high, and install a cable??

Of course charging it from your avionics batteries will be a serious load on them.

Kevin 

92

[Eric Greenwell]

I haven't seen any battery charging advice from Naviter, so I'll suggest it's possible that the 100% the Oudie N reports after a full charge is not actually a full charge of the battery, but only an 80 to 90% charge of the battery. Ditto for the 0% it reports when "fully discharged". In other words, the battery life extending techniques may be implemented in the Oudie N, and there is no value to avoiding being near the "empty" or "full" ends of the  charge percentage. 

[Pat Russell]

In this day and age, it should be possible to put a device on charge and forget about it for a week or more, regardless of the battery chemistry.  If this is an issue with the Oudie N, Naviter should provide or recommend a smart charger that will never put the battery at risk.

[Moshe Braner]

Devices with lithium batteries, such as the Oudie, always have their own "smart" charge controlling circuit inside.   Most "consumers" who buy a phone, for example, don't care about longevity of the battery, and want fast charging and a long operating time, so that's what the built-in charge controllers are designed to give them.  Only a few geeks (such as I) want to extend the battery longevity and thus seek to override the usual charge scheme.  The only way to limit the charge current is to plug it into a power source that refuses to provide more than some lower current than the Oudie/phone/etc wants.  The only way to stop it from charging to 100% is to disconnect it manually earlier.

Regarding the reportedly high proportion of Oudie Ns with battery swelling issues, I wonder if there is something in the space where the battery is mounted that tends to physically damage the battery.  Has anybody looked inside?

[David Denman]

I wouldn't hook up a cable to sailplane batteries - I just don't think you need it.  My average flight is 3 hours and even if the Oudie is at 50% when I take off it's never gonna run out.  I charge to about 60% the day before I might fly.  If I don't fly I haven't put the battery much above it's "happy place" and if I do it's probably got 6+ hours of battery which is way more than I need.  Add a few percent to the charge if you think you might need it.  I don't think you aren't gonna puff the battery unless you constantly keep it (for months or longer) at 100%.  It may have smart charge technology that clips the upper and lower ends of charge but unless it has a discharge circuit that will discharge it to storage voltage after long periods of full charge without use it's gonna have issues (EGO lawn equipment batteries have this).

[Eric Redweik]

I will start by saying I really like my Oudie N and have not had any other issues with the unit. The replacement unit seems to operate fine. 

I believe that My Oudie N was one of the units that had the battery failure that the original poster mentioned. I will say that Naviter (Through Wings and Wheels) was quick and responsive when I brough forward the issue. The image below shows the unit shortly after landing. It had some time to cool off by that point however while it was in the cockpit with me I could see the puffed up cells inside. 

Note: I was ready to chuck the unit out the window if it got any worse and had it sitting next to the air vent trying to cool the cells down while I cut my flight short and expedited home.  

The technicians at Naviter had a chance to inspect the unit. Their response from the inspection was "The battery didn't have any visible external damage. But however, the back and front housing and LCD had minor scratches, most likely caused by a drop or punch. We however cannot say precisely if this was the real reason for battery failure..."

As previously mentioned, keeping the unit stored around 50% charge seems is a good practice for the health of the battery as is storing the unit in a cool location. The day this occurred in flight was not a particularly hot day (for Arizona) and I was at an altitude that was actually quite cool (again for Arizona). 

The notes from Naviter were:

"Note: Lithium batteries are very complex in their nature so it is not unusual for some of them to develop problems after some time. Especially when not used correctly.

There are a few tips that can help you minimize the deterioration of your battery capacity and you can find most of them via this link
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/five-tips-for-extending-lithium-ion-battery-life/#

It's also important to remember to keep your battery at 50% or less when you are not flying, as it slows down the oxidation process. Another tip is not to leave it in a hot car for a longer period of time."  

-Eric

[kevin anderson]

Thanks Eric,

My Oudie 2 is quite long in tooth, so I am going to pull the plug, but disappointed that these issues have come up.  I just seems to be the best replacement at the time.

Unfortunately the precautions listed above are Very hard to meet if you are at a soaring contest.  (No high temps there, ha,ha,ha)

Thanks for the report

92

[Eric Redweik]

Kevin, 

All things considered, I would still highly recommend the Oudie N. It has quickly become my primary flight computer and over the past year and a half of use I have developed a lot of trust in the unit and the data. The SeeYou Navigator software is quite different from the old Oudie 1/2 software so plan to spend some time getting the layout and settings the way you want it. 

-Eric

[Kevin Anderson]

Thanks Eric,

I have started playing with it a bit on my phone, but not used it in the air yet.

Kevin

-- 
Thanks for using RAS_Prime!
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RAS_Prime" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rasprime/rPjlY6wcrE8/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rasprime+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rasprime/363a2aa4-1504-4fac-b4ca-6835cc78ead5n%40googlegroups.com.

[Tim Bromhead]

I would definitely not charge my Oudie while flying, they already get hot in the sun, running the screen so bright. Charging can only make it hotter which makes it worse for the battery. My iPhone will dim the display and stop charging if it gets too warm, I wouldn't count on the Oudie doing any of that.

Generally the battery is so huge it'll last for a decent several hour flight even if down to 30% when you start. I make an effort to not charge mine fully and keep it about 50-70% ready for use.

[*Eric Greenwell1*]

I've only flown six times with my Oudie, and in mild weather. I seem to get about 1 hour for each 8% at full brightness, and noticeably more time if I back off the brightness just 5% or so. I charge it fully the day of the flight, and after some ground use before and after my usual 4-5 hour flight, it's around 60%, an adequate storage percentage.

I do have a USB 5 volt charger socket on the panel (from when I used an iPhone and an Oudie 2), so I could plug the Oudie into it, should I inadvertently run it too low to finish the flight.

Eric G

On 5/13/2024 10:38 PM, Tim Bromhead wrote:

I would definitely not charge my Oudie while flying, they already get hot in the sun, running the screen so bright. Charging can only make it hotter which makes it worse for the battery. My iPhone will dim the display and stop charging if it gets too warm, I wouldn't count on the Oudie doing any of that.

Generally the battery is so huge it'll last for a decent several hour flight even if down to 30% when you start. I make an effort to not charge mine fully and keep it about 50-70% ready for use.

--

[kevin anderson]

I have flown for years with Oudie 2 being powered through my S-100, or other instruments in the panel.  

If the Oudie is low, then there is a large sucking sound from your ships battery while it is  trying to charge it. 

If it is full, then I suspect you are slowly damaging the battery by keeping it full, unless you charged just before the flight. 

I certainly cannot depend on jut the basic Oudie 2 battery alone for my flights.

I did finally finish the debate with myself and ordered an N last night.  Just don't see a better alternative,  and look forward to a brilliant screen. 

Kevin

92

[*Eric Greenwell1*]

I inadvertantly left of the "N": it was an Oudie N I was talking about, and that's what I've been using this year. I did use an Oudie 2 for 2023, but it was old and the battery lasted less than an hour, so it was always plugged in.

I also think the Oudie N (IGC version in my case) is the best alternative, except for ridge runners that can't use touch screens, due to the turbulence. It already has some advantages over the panel mounted units, like the LXNav 90xx series: a much bigger image (2 million pixels instead of 300,000), relatively easier use, and far lower cost and installation effort.

Eric G