Adding US Sport Pilot Airplane Endorsement to existing Glider Rating?

[Erik Mann]

Hi folks, 

I think this was covered very clearly in a thread somewhere on the old RAS but I must not have hit the right search keywords.   I've got a bunch of material already from Googling,   but if anyone has a nice, tidy summary from an organization that has done this multiple times I'd appreciate it.   

No, I don't need pointers to the relevant FARs.  What I need is a succinct source that summarizes the FARs but also the practical steps involved including the specific endorsement language.  I can't find a specific FAA AC that covers this.    

Yes, I could reinvent the wheel but figured someone on here has already done exactly this.  

Thanks,  

Erik Mann (P3)

[Bill Tisdale]

Erik, Its been a few days and I'm not seeing any other replies. I'm sure you've come to the same conclusion that I have.

I have worked through this with Glider to Private Pilot Airplane with other students. Transitioning to Light Sport Airplane would not be much different except the type of "check ride" with two Light Sport Airplane Instructors and not with a DPE. You are not a Student, so solo PIC would be under 61.31(d)(2). The written exam or knowledge test would be required for Light Sport Airplane, as your Glider Knowledge test did not cover engine or fuel management. 61.309 identifies the aeronautical knowledge areas, 61.311 identifies the flight maneuvers to be performed, 61.313 (a) identifies the training that must be logged, 

FAA Form 8710-11 Sport Pilot identifies the application process and Check ride. The check ride is completed by two Light Sport Instructors. Any Airplane instructor is qualified to instruct in Light Sport Airplane.

Two instructors, one "recommending instructor" and one "proficiency check instructor".  The completed application is forwarded to the FAA OKC Office. A new Pilot Certificate will be issued for your highest rating held, I assume Commercial. The back will list Commercial Privileges- Glider and Light Sport Pilot.  The "ENDORSEMENT" for Light Sport Airplane would be provided by the FAA to put in your logbook. Any additional Light Sport Aircraft you would want to qualify to fly is by simple instructor endorsement. 61.321

If you find something different, please let me know.

I have worked this process a couple of times with "Private" or higher Airplane Pilots getting their Light Sport-Glider certificates. Just that the glider knowledge test was not required.

Bill

[Lynn Alley]

I have done this myself, both for sport pilot and sport instructing privileges in Airplane, Single Engine.  I've also taken students through both the pilot and instructing certification process.  The quick outline of the process for a private glider pilot to obtain privileges in light sport airplanes is:

1. Complete the required training.
2. Receive an endorsement from an authorized instructor that says you meet the knowledge and proficiency requirements.
3. Complete a proficiency check with a second authorized instructor (much like an FAA check ride)
4. Receive an endorsement from that second authorized instructor.
5. Report the endorsement to the FAA.
   

This mostly agrees with what Bill says above, with the following exceptions.

• No written knowledge test is required.  As a holder of a private (or higher) certificate with a glider rating you automatically have privileges to operate light sport gliders.  The process to add privileges to operate an additional category of light sport aircraft (such as an airplane) is detailed in 14 CFR 61.321.  You will note that no knowledge test is required.  Instead, you must complete the required training and receive a logbook endorsement from an authorized instructor that you meet the both knowledge and flight proficiency requirements.  An authorized instructor would be either a sport instructor or a CFI in airplanes, but, either way, the flight training has to be done in a light sport airplane.  The knowledge areas and areas of operation are listed in 61.309 and 61.311.
  
  
• You must then complete a proficiency check (in a light sport airplane) with another instructor in accordance with the Sport Pilot Practical Test Standard.  This is the check ride Bill mentions.  After you do that, you receive a logbook endorsement from that instructor, not from the FAA.  It is this logbook endorsement that gives you the additional privilege.  Once you have it you are authorized.  You report the event to the FAA on form 8710-11, as Bill says.  A new certificate will eventually come in the mail that lists the new privilege on the back, not in the ratings section, but oddly enough, in the limitations section.  The point is that you have no new rating, just an endorsement to operate sport aircraft in an additional category.  That endorsement is the one in your logbook that you received on completion of your proficiency check.  The thing on the back of your certificate is just a record of the endorsement.

Under the new MOSAIC initiative , the FAA is proposing to do away with instructor-administered proficiency checks.  If that happens you will indeed need to pass a new written and fly with an examiner to receive sport privileges in airplanes.  It will be simpler and less expensive to get it done before MOSAIC passes.

For those of you who have not heard, MOSAIC is still just an FAA proposal, but it promises to greatly expand what is a light sport airplane.  Under MOSAIC as currently formulated, for example, a sport pilot with appropriate endorsements would be allowed to operate a Cessna 182 in daytime VFR, even in Class B, C, or D airspace, while carrying (only) a single passenger.  And all this without a medical certificate, as long as the pilot qualifies for a driver's license and has not previously been denied a medical certificate.  But for right now it is just a proposal.

Lynn Alley

"2KA"

[Bill Tisdale]

Lynn, thanks for the clarifications. I did not make the link from Light Sport "Glider" to additional Light Sport Aircraft (Airplane). My thinking was stuck on the Glider Pilot to Airplane Private pilot that does require the Airplane knowledge exam, but no knowledge exam moving from Airplane to Glider. The difference being the cross country planning, fuel and engine management. 

Also thanks for the progress report on MOSAIC, it seems to be hitting a stone wall somewhere in the approval process.

Bill

[Erik Mann]

Thanks all including some responses I got offline.    If I have some time this week I'll try to put this into a format that is easily accessible/reusable outside the chat.    

Best, 

P3

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[Erik Mann]

Just double checking.   Given that this is an Additional Category on an existing Rating (e.g. Commercial Glider),   then the 61.313 is not applicable in this case - is that the correct interpretation?   Specifically the hours requirement and XC requirement.    

1) 20 hours of flight time, including at least 15 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor in a single-engine airplane and at least 5 hours of solo flight training in the areas of operation listed in § 61.311,
(i) 2 hours of cross-country flight training, (ii) 10 takeoffs and landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport, (iii) One solo cross-country flight of at least 75 nautical miles total distance, with a full-stop landing at a minimum of two points and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of at least 25 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations, and (iv) 2 hours of flight training with an authorized instructor on those areas of operation specified in § 61.311 in preparation for the practical test within the preceding 2 calendar months from the month of the test.  

[Lynn Alley]

This is actually a really good question, since 61.321 does not mention needing to meet the requirements of 61.313 (experience).  It does mention 61.311 (proficiency in areas of operation) and 61.309 (knowledge).  I would also note that the sample endorsement for the practical test in AC 61-65H (A.18) mentions 61.309 and 61.311, but not 61.313.

I think that the correct interpretation would be that 61.313 does not apply.  I personally have, however, always made sure that my students meet the experience requirements of 61.313 before I recommend them for the proficiency check.  It just seems to me like the training is not comprehensive otherwise.

Lynn Alley
"2KA"

[Lynn Alley]

Whoops, I didn't mean "practical test" above, I meant "proficiency check" for a new category.  Pilots seeking to add additional sport pilot category privileges can take a proficiency check from a CFI, not a practical test with a DPE. The corrected post is:

This is actually a really good question, since 61.321 does not mention needing to meet the requirements of 61.313 (experience).  It does mention 61.311 (proficiency in areas of operation) and 61.309 (knowledge).  I would also note that the sample endorsement for the proficiency check in AC 61-65H (A.18) mentions 61.309 and 61.311, but not 61.313.

I think that the correct interpretation would be that 61.313 does not apply.  I personally have, however, always made sure that my students meet the experience requirements of 61.313 before I recommend them for the proficiency check.  It just seems to me like the training is not comprehensive otherwise.

Lynn Alley
"2KA"

[Erik Mann]

Thanks to those who replied here as well as others who reached out offline.   Successfully accomplished the addition of Sport Pilot SEL with Taildragger endorsement.     Working on consolidating into a single, shareable PDF in the coming days.