Young driver interested in kit cars

[Martin R]

Hello all,

I'm 18 years old and have been interested in kit cars for a while, and more recently a Quantum kit car. I will probably be looking to buy a car this summer, both for leisure purposes as well as an opportunity to learn maintenance/repair (mainly from my dad, who has quite a bit of experience). If someone could please point me in the right direction on these points, I would greatly appreciate it:

1) Best places to look to buy a Quantum (especially a H4 or 2+2) - apart from the owner's club classified ads page, which I'm already aware of.

2) I have seen these cars sell in the 1750-2000 range, is it truly possible to find one in a good condition for this price, or will there be major issues that need taking care of?

3) Is there anywhere I can find a list of common problems so that I know what to look for when going out and looking at a Quantum?

Thanks in advance,

Martin

[John Mellors]

Martin

Quite a few Quantums come up on Ebay.

You should be able to get a decent car in that price range and some come up quite a bit cheaper. Unfortunately, Quantums do not fetch a lot of money at the moment. But, bear in mind, with kit cars, there are nearly always things that need sorting out but the Quantum is generally one of the more reliable kit cars.

The biggest possible problem with the 2+2 and the H4 is the front metal frame / chassis rusting where it is bonded in to the body. This can be terminal if not sorted at an early stage. The Quantum saloon does not suffer from this as it is a GRP monocoque. Do not be put off by the odd gel coat crack in the body. These, generally are not a big issue.

You are perhaps best looking for a 1.4 as these will be cheaper for you on insurance and on road tax.

John

[Susan and Martin Scott]

Good to see that you are interested in Quantums, they are indeed a good kit car. I resisted replying, hoping that someone with H4 and 2+2 knowledge would come along, as I have a saloon, and don't have much knowledge of the other models. John has given good insight. All I can add is that mechanically any issues are likely to be the same as with the Ford donor cars, so easily and probably cheaply fixed. As you would expect with cars of a similar age items can be worn, although as they are kit cars the mileage/wear can be far less than the donor cars. Many builders will have replaced a lot of the parts with new parts when they built the car, so a potential purchase may well have parts only "30k or less worn". There are unlikely to be any bodywork issues with Quantums, as the GRP is first class.

Martin Scott 

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[teegee777]

Hi Martin,

             Do you live anywhere near Suffolk? I'm going to be selling my 2+2 very soon, it's a 1.4 and I've owned it for about 11 years. It's been a brilliant car and it's only because I've got a back/shoulder injury that I'm selling it, I've now got an automatic metal box to drive!. The problem I have is the lack of power steering and the right knee twist as you get out! I can't think of it failing anything unusual at MOT's , although I have had to weld up where the track stabilizer bar fits to the front subframe. There's two minor things at the moment which I haven't been physically able to do. The drivers door needs re-bolting back on (long story,but it's now got a new top hinge) and it's also got what I consider a minor electric fault ( i just need to find it). It starts o.k. but dies after a short period of acceleration. As mentioned on the forum I think it could either be the connection on the coil (push on) another bad electrical contact or at the worse the distributor electronic module (reasonably cheap).The stainless exhaust is 18 months old, and it's got 3 months MOT. I really need about £1100 for it and I have a hardtop which I'm selling separately for £150. Good luck on your search, you won't be disappointed with either a 2+2 or H4. Tony

[Julian Coleman]

Hi

I have had an H4 for just over a year but thought I'd leave a response for someone with longer experience. Mine is heavily modified but is enormous fun in a way that modern cars just are not unless you live somewhere with fewer cars on the road and higher speed limits. Just about any modern car will get you into serious trouble with speeding tickets long before it's fun! The H4 is pretty raw, and I imagine the 2+2 is very similar. People are frequently asking 'what's that?' as well. And they want to talk about it.

The downside is mostly parts - it's an older car and if it has been modified heavily the bits are anyone's guess. Luckily mine came with a fair few receipts so for example I'm able to go back to the original supplier for suspension info. But finding replacement front discs and pads (non standard parts) took a while - they're available, but I had no part numbers. Electrics can be a problem. Mine reveals some work was done very well indeed, some done badly. But then any car that age will have its problems, kit or otherwise.

Anyone contemplating a kit car must have a streak of rebellion/adventure, so I'd guess this will simply be part of the challenge for you. But remember this forum is active and people have a lot of experience - and will help (as I have found very much to my benefit - thanks to all).  Not all garages will help (or will know what to do), but enough do. I've not had problems so far.

Have fun.

 
Julian Coleman
City Audio Services

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Cc:

Sent:

Tue, 22 Jan 2019 10:24:10 -0000

Subject:

Re: [Quantum Owners] Re: Young driver interested in kit cars

Good to see that you are interested in Quantums, they are indeed a good kit car. I resisted replying, hoping that someone with H4 and 2+2 knowledge would come along, as I have a saloon, and don't have much knowledge of the other models. John has given good insight. All I can add is that mechanically any issues are likely to be the same as with the Ford donor cars, so easily and probably cheaply fixed. As you would expect with cars of a similar age items can be worn, although as they are kit cars the mileage/wear can be far less than the donor cars. Many builders will have replaced a lot of the parts with new parts when they built the car, so a potential purchase may well have parts only "30k or less worn". There are unlikely to be any bodywork issues with Quantums, as the GRP is first class.

Martin Scott 

----- Original Message -----

From: John Mellors

To: Quantum Owners Group

Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2019 6:37 AM

Subject: [Quantum Owners] Re: Young driver interested in kit cars

Martin

Quite a few Quantums come up on Ebay.

You should be able to get a decent car in that price range and some come up quite a bit cheaper. Unfortunately, Quantums do not fetch a lot of money at the moment. But, bear in mind, with kit cars, there are nearly always things that need sorting out but the Quantum is generally one of the more reliable kit cars.

The biggest possible problem with the 2+2 and the H4 is the front metal frame / chassis rusting where it is bonded in to the body This can be terminal if not sorted at an early stage. The Quantum saloon does not suffer from this as it is a GRP monocoque. Do not be put off by the odd gel coat crack in the body. These, generally are not a big issue.

You are perhaps best looking for a 1.4 as these will be cheaper for you on insurance and on road tax.

John

On Sunday, 20 January 2019 21:54:18 UTC, Martin R wrote:

Hello all,

I'm 18 years old and have been interested in kit cars for a while, and more recently a Quantum kit car. I will probably be looking to buy a car this summer, both for leisure purposes as well as an opportunity to learn maintenance/repair (mainly from my dad, who has quite a bit of experience). If someone could please point me in the right direction on these points, I would greatly appreciate it:

1) Best places to look to buy a Quantum (especially a H4 or 2+2) - apart from the owner's club classified ads page, which I'm already aware of.

2) I have seen these cars sell in the 1750-2000 range, is it truly possible to find one in a good condition for this price, or will there be major issues that need taking care of?

3) Is there anywhere I can find a list of common problems so that I know what to look for when going out and looking at a Quantum?

Thanks in advance,

Martin

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[Steve Kodź]

Martin,

The usual places will work for finding a Quantum, plus don't forget to keep an eye on the club's Facebook page, facebook.com/QuantumOwnersClub, as I try to add cars from eBay on there.

As has already been mentioned be prepared to do work on any vehicle you purchase.  What the current owner doesn't consider to be a problem may be a major issue for you.  However these are generally very easy cars to work on and there isn't much that cannot be achieved at home by a competent DIYer.  Being based on Mk2 (2+2) and Mk3 (H4) Fiestas the complexity of the electrics is very low compared to modern cars, but is a good place to learn fundamentals.  Depending on what you are after and how big your budget is it shouldn't be too hard to find a project or road worthy car for very little outlay.  It is very unfortunate the Quantums are not commanding the premium they deserve, since they are a very usable car and the original kits were of a very high standard.

There are no major issues that are common to the cars.  As previously mentioned the H4 can suffer from a rusting chassis, which isn't ideal since it is mostly encapsulated within the fibre glass monocoque. Within the club there haven't been a huge number of reports about this rusting, so it shouldn't put you off completely.

The 2+2 can suffer rusting to the front subframe.  This is visible within the engine bay and can be removed from the car.  These subframes were mostly bonded and bolted to the chassis at the factory, but have been successfully separated by several members.  Once removed these can be repaired and rust proofed and then bonded and bolted back in place.

The cost of fibre glass repair panels used to be an issue, however recently Rob Handcock has taken control of Quantum Sports Cars and he has worked hard with his team to ensure repairs are affordable.  Rob has a lot of experience with kit cars and the motor industry in general and has so far been a real asset for owners.

The biggest potential issue is replacement parts, since it is now about 27(!) years since the Mk3 Fiesta was produced and about 32(!) since the Mk2.  I'm not currently aware of anything being completely unobtainable, but don't expect everything to be on the shelf at your local motor factors.

For help and assistance I can't fault this group.  Collectively there is so much experience available here and everyone is always friendly and helpful.

If you want to have a good look at the cars and speak to owners then the Stoneleigh kit car show is a must (https://www.nationalkitcarshow.co.uk/).  This is held annually over the Mayday Bank Holiday and is the only time you are likely to have all models available to view.

Good luck with the search and I look forward to seeing you at Stoneleigh.

Regards,
Steve

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[Bill Jackson]

Hello Martin, 

and good luck in your search. I have owned three Quantum saloons and one H4. All were excellent cars, but to be realistic spare parts are becoming a problem. The saloons and 2 +2 are XR2 mk2 based, the H4 Fiesta Mk3 based. If you can find a fairly standard 2+2, ideally with a hard top as well, you will be well suited for all year round motoring. While it is true that the front sub-frame in the 2+2 has been known to corrode, it is detachable and repairable....and many owners have modified it slightly to accept a more modern Zetec engine to replace the standard CVH. In additiion to its greater insurability, the 1.4 engines (either Zetec or CVH) will be cheaper on road tax than the 1600 engine most cars will have. If you can find a good H4, spare parts are much easier but you need to inspect the chassis very carefully. To my knowledge, it is not practical to attempt its removal for repair if rusty....but the hard top convertible set-up is simply excellent and later cars may even have power steering (mine was based on an M reg 1.6 Si and it was a joy to drive). 

Whatever you end up with. JOIN THIS CLUB if you haven't already...there is a huge amount of enthusiasm, advice, expertise and practical help available.....and lots of us have spares lying about that are perhaps now surplus to requirements. 

 

Bill Jackson

[michael...@aol.com]

-----Original Message-----
From: 'teegee777' via Quantum Owners Group <quantu...@googlegroups.com>
To: Quantum Owners Group <quantu...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 10:32
Subject: [Quantum Owners] Re: Young driver interested in kit cars

[michael...@aol.com]

Tee Gee   I live in Norwich which may not too far from your home. I can't offer any advice about the electrical problem but it seems likely that between us we might manage to get the door back in place.

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: 'teegee777' via Quantum Owners Group <quantu...@googlegroups.com>
To: Quantum Owners Group <quantu...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 10:32
Subject: [Quantum Owners] Re: Young driver interested in kit cars

[bill]

My next door neighbour has just told me he is selling his Q saloon, been off road years but starts and drives, its diesel and he wants £400 with some spares/extras

Sent from my iPhone

[Rolf]

Great you're interested in these cars. They're really great, cheap, fun to drive and fun to learn from.
Did anyone warn you of the "Quantum addiction"?
First I got a saloon, then a 2+2, then another 2-2 .....and another project 2-2.
The problem is, I never could part with the previous!

Once you have a car that is complete, your challenges seem to be in maintaining it.
That is easier than building one, now the donor car is becoming obsolete.

There are some great stories on the fora with pictures for inspiration how to enhance your car.
You might get carried away.....!

See you at Stoneleigh?
Cheers,
Rolf

[Jamest142]

Hi

I use Quantum 2+2 Q2-002 every day as my daily drive, as well as for 2 weeks holiday (200 miles each way!) every year.  Touch wood the only real issues have been the fuel line, muck in the carb (from the fuel line!), and the ignition module (ride on the truck with flashy lights).

As a note - the Ford part was double the part of one for a Landrover Discovery.  Same part code though.

I get 45 mpg on a long run, and 25 ish on the daily drive to work.

The load carrying capacity of the boot is really incredible.

Ask away if you have any queries.

James T

Q2-002

www.bostin.photography 

[Susan and Martin Scott]

Hi James, just out of curiosity.... was that the Ford EDIS module (rectangular box on earlier mr2 XR2?)

Martin Scott

----- Original Message -----

From: 'Jamest142' via Quantum Owners Group

To: Quantum Owners Group

Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2019 6:55 PM

Subject: [Quantum Owners] Re: Young driver interested in kit cars

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[F_Plan]

Thanks, Michael. I'm secretary of the local kit car club and fortunately have had a number of offers of help to replace the door,it's just getting the weather and enthusiasm to do the job. The hinges are back on the car, so just need the door lifting back onto the hinges.

                Thanks again,

                                    Tony

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[Jamest142]

Hi Martin

My Q is a 1989 XR2 CHV model, I did list all the codes (somewhere!) not sure if it was on this or the other forum, but I can confirm both the genuine Ford and the Disco one worked with no issues at all.

I have done a search, but cannot find the post, but it does not help I can't remember what it was called...

I will post when I find it.

Best regards

James T

Q2-002

www.bostin.photography

[Jamest142]

Hi again Martin

I found this post from March 17 which was a copy from Nov 13...  Wonders of the internet :)

Hi

I posted this back in Nov 2013 (glad the search facility works!).  It may help with the ignition modules.

Finally found the code for the ignition module - the pattern code is XEI9 (Xray, Echo, Indigo, Niner), a quick search shows several other codes - FORD 6153380, ROVER NJQ10001.

FORD 6 153 380
FORD 6153380
FORD 84SF 12K05 7AA
FORD 84SF 12K05 9AA
FORD 84SF-12K057-AA
FORD 84SF-12K059-AA
LAND ROVER ERR5210
LAND ROVER STC1184
ROVER CDU4175
ROVER ERR 5210

I hope this helps.

Best regards

James T

Q2-002

www.bostin.photography

On Tuesday, 22 January 2019 19:54:23 UTC, Susan and Martin Scott wrote:

[Jim Hearne]

Thats the amplifier module from the later Mk2 Fiestas.
I think (maybe not) that Martin is after the ecu from the earlier MK2, they don't use a amplifier on the distributor, it's inside the ECU

Jim

--

[Susan and Martin Scott]

Thanks for that James. I'll keep your note in my "Quantum file" of emails. I think that's what I have (I'll have a look at the distributor) - I don't have an ECU (which was fitted to the earlier ones - I thought these were called EDIS, but I'm confident Jim has more knowledge). My first 'check item' will be the coil. When the car was running badly when I arrived at Stoneleigh, and seemed like  fuel starvation, I checked the wire to the fuel shut off valve  and received an HT 'jolt' of it, suggesting there was an internal short from HT to LT.

Martin Scott

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[Jim Hearne]

Hi Martin,

 

If you got a shock from pulling off the shut off valve connection then that was because of the back emf voltage generated in the coil of the solenoid (basically the same principle as the igniton coil works on) when you removed the power.

 

If you got a shock just jiggling it then it suggests there is a poor contact to the solenoid.

 

I have had very intermittent cutting out caused by rust on the low voltage ignition coil terminals, especially if you still have the original rubber push on terminals instead of ring tags.

 

But, failure of those ignition modules is quite common as well.

 

Jim

[Susan and Martin Scott]

Ah -good thinking jim. Is there a way of testing the module? I'll have to investigate more.

Regards, Martin

[Jim Hearne]

If it’s intermittent then it’s not very easy to test.

You could remove the module from the distributor, clean and check the connections where it plugs into the distributor.

 

The other thing you could try is to run the engine and warm up the module with a hot air gun as they usually fail when they get hot.

Don’t get it too hot though, should be ok up to around 120oC

[Jamest142]

Hi

If you still have the large 'pancake' filter, it could be vapour lock on the fuel line as it is quite a nice little heat trap.  I have changed to an K&N filter, but I also wrapped the rubber hose in alumunium tape which seemed to help.

[Susan and Martin Scott]

Thanks for the ideas.... keep them coming please! I need to resolve this (as it's a pain to drive when it happens). Strangely on last year's trip to Stoneleigh it was ok for the first 45 minutes when most of the time stuck at 10mph in (unusually heavy for Norwich) traffic with the temp gauge hovering near red - it was only once I was moving faster (and temp gauge dropped) that it gave the issue. It doesn't seem to have any set pattern, other than on the way to Stoneleigh, but not on the way home!

Martin Scott

----- Original Message -----

From: 'Jamest142' via Quantum Owners Group

To: Quantum Owners Group

Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2019 8:07 PM

Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Re: Young driver interested in kit cars

[Niall McCracken]

Hi Martin

I'm probably wading in here a bit late... I had a 2+2 for a while and have just bought a H4. 

I was desperate to get my hands on any sort of classic car with a soft top and honestly I don't think there is anything out there that even comes close to touching a quantum in terms of value for money, nothing. You can get a sort of ok Mini or Morris Minor for about 4k, a good MK1 mx5 will cost you at least 3k these days, its a no brainer in my opinion.

The biggest plus is also the biggest negative - that they're hand built. So everyone is different and each have their own quirks, but the plus side is that they are generally very easy to work on. If it helps - my experience is as follows:

1) First Quantum was a Yellow 2+2 based on a 1984 XR2. Paid £2100, from what I now know is a dodgy dodgy car salesman. Looked immaculate, but wasnt. Ended up rewiring, replacing carb, manifold, rear suspension, completely replacing pop up headlights, new dashboard, new choke, new tie rods and a rack replacement. All of these I did with no experience using a Haynes manual and google. But the biggest challenge was indeed finding parts. I did find you can get creative and substitute various bits and pieces but ended up paying over £1800 to get it up to scratch.

2) Second was a H4 bought about 6 weeks ago. Paid £1200. Mechanically sound but needs lots of adjusting and updating including a complete interior replacement. But drives fine, although needs new rear shocks. Leaks like a sieve. But a unique targa convertible that'll hit 60 in under 10 seconds for £1200 and looks totally unique??! fahgeddabout it!!

I guess the point is that no two are the same - but they're quite straightforward to work on and I've found the forum absolutely invaluable for support. Within a week of joining somebody hand drew a complete wiring diagram for the headlights and emailed it over to me. And they are nearly always cheap to repair; my steering rack for the 2+2 was something like £18 new! And the dashboard was about £20 from ebay. Its all part of the fun! People have recently really switched on to classic fords and you'd be surprised how many parts there are out there.

[teegee777]

Hi Martin,

              I thought I would update on my 2+2 issue. It just stopped on the A14,no hard shoulder...but the Police recovered me within 10 minutes. It started again after they unhitched me and I trailered it home (it drove on and off the trailer). I topped it up with petrol and was going out of my drive when it stopped again (stopped so quickly it had to be electrical). I started to look at it last week again after about 3 months of non-use (back and shoulder injury). I charged battery and it started first time, left it running on the drive and it stopped after about 5 minutes, no spark at plugs or coil (king lead). It started again after about 20 minutes and then completely failed to start.The coil seemed o.k. but ordered a new coil and ignition module (Intermotor 15020). The ignition module fixed the problem, it came with silicon to heat insulate it from the distributor. One thing to watch was it came with "male" connectors on the module and needed the original "female to female" adaptor to connect to the "male" connectors on the distributor. I managed to get the module for about £25.The engine is 1.4 CVH, red top distributor.

                     Cheers

                             Tony

[kynastonp]

The silicon is heat transfer paste ,to transfer heat from the module into the distributor and keep the module cool . 

[rob hancock]

Hi martin.

You are welcome to a visit to QSC .we have several cars here in all stages of restoration

Regards rob

On Sun, 20 Jan 2019, 21:54 Martin R <digm...@gmail.com wrote:

Hello all,

I'm 18 years old and have been interested in kit cars for a while, and more recently a Quantum kit car. I will probably be looking to buy a car this summer, both for leisure purposes as well as an opportunity to learn maintenance/repair (mainly from my dad, who has quite a bit of experience). If someone could please point me in the right direction on these points, I would greatly appreciate it:

1) Best places to look to buy a Quantum (especially a H4 or 2+2) - apart from the owner's club classified ads page, which I'm already aware of.

2) I have seen these cars sell in the 1750-2000 range, is it truly possible to find one in a good condition for this price, or will there be major issues that need taking care of?

3) Is there anywhere I can find a list of common problems so that I know what to look for when going out and looking at a Quantum?

Thanks in advance,

Martin

--

[Susan and Martin Scott]

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the info. Strangely we were driving through the A14 roadworks on Friday (not in Q), and I commented to my Wife that it would be a nightmare if a car conked out in that section of road (single carriageway, concrete blocks either side!). My Q peroblem, when it has occurred,  has always seemed like a fuel shortage (because it hasn't cut completely) giving a minimal misfire, but about 3-500 rpm drop. As it's intermittent it's a job to track down, but is very unnerving to drive. I think I'll have a look at the connectors as Jim has suggested, but once I've identified the module I'll buy a new one anyway and also probably fit it unless (or because) I find a visible issue with the existing one. I'd like to be confident I've traced the problem item (without a doubt) but it's so worrying to drive in that condition that I may have to settle for just changing parts (and lots of them), and if the problem goes, just accepting the result. I remember years ago an engine on dyno test when I worked at Ford, and every part (one at a time) was changed for new ..... when they were all changed it worked ok, so the last part to be changed was then swapped back and it still worked ok, and every part was put back to original in the end and it still worked. No part was identified categorically as the culprit! Oh the joys of fiddling with cars.