2+2 Charging - or not!!

[Nigel Plant]

Went out to the 2+2 and had a flat battery. Seemingly no ignition light on so charged battery and tried again. Soon was flat again. Checked the light more carefully and it was glowing slightly increasing in intensity if I put headlights on. I had missed this as it was nigh on impossible to see in this good weather. Put a new alternator on as previously had fitted my Xtreme spare. No difference.

After scratching my head I assume an earthing problem somewhere or high resistance in wire to charging light. So here's my question. Is there s favourite place to start looking on the 2+2?

Also I am used to only two wires on the alternator the battery wires and the ignition light (blue). This car had a third connection onto the W terminal which I thought was a pulse signal. I couldn't figure what this was for so didn't connect it on the new alternator and can't spot anything wrong, apart from not charging!!!! Any suggestions welcome.

Thanks
Nigel

[Martin Hodnett]

Hi Nigel.  Mine is doing the same, only noticed it in the darker evening and more pronounced with the headlights on.  Tomorrow I am going to check the output voltage which I believe should be 14.1V.  Mine has three wires in the plug, one red wire goes to the battery, the other to the ignition switch.  According to the Haynes book of amazing facts, the two reds come together at a fusible link which then goes to the solenoid and on to the battery. At that first joint, it also branches to the ignition switch.  Blue goes to the charge light. 

Will let you know what I find if it helps.

Martin

[Nigel Plant]

Thanks. Did consult Haynes book of tricks. Yours is pretty much what mine is now. My multimeter is coming out too,  should have checked before getting new alternator. Never mind as its the same as the Xtreme I have a spare. Ill be searching tomorrow too, did clean up main battery earth tonight but no improvement. Havent quite got all the logic/ symptoms straight in my head yet as a couple of times it cranked slowly, then on next attempt was fast, indicating a bad connection.

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[Steve Kodź]

Check the wires between the alternator and the starter motor.  These are known to degrade or get chaffed.

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[Hans Defauwes]

Some time ago a 2+2 with a Puma Interior and engine was sold on e-bay.

 

Does anybody know the new owner?

 

I realy like the idea of the puma dash with 2 airbags etc.

I can get a low milage one for cheap . . .

 

Hans

 

[Jim Hearne]

I did reply to this thread but the message seems to have not appeared.
Probably i forgot to press send.

Basically you need to check the battery voltage with the engine running.
The W terminal is a pulse output, normally only used on a diesel with a rev
counter.

Jim

[Jim Hearne]

In the UK you can’t pass the IVA test with air bags fitted to a kit car.

I think it’s something to do with possible injury if they aren’t mounted in the same way as the original car.

 

Quantum always used to say that the Mk3/4 Fiesta and Puma dash was too wide to fit in a 2+2 but i know it’s been done.

I think the flanges would have to be cut off the sides of the dash.

 

Jim

[Hans Defauwes]

Until Brexit I can combine EU and UK law’s in The Neterlands 

 

Gives the QSC a more modern look to . .  certainly after respraying the car

[bill]

A clip on ammeter is quite useful for this type of problem, from clipping onto the battery cable down to individual wires on any circuit, checking for charge or discharge and for checking whether battery is discharging when ignition is off

Sent from my iPhone

[Martin Hodnett]

Hi Nigel.

Had a poke around with mine earlier and found 13.8V at the battery with engine running. After scratching the detritus from the battery terminal posts this showed a healthy 14.6V, so no problem with the alternator.  I turned my attention to a small cable coming off the negative post leading to the subframe.  Two other earth wires meet it at the point where a bolt holds them to the subframe.  One leads to the mounting plate of the coil the other goes into the wiring loom heading towards the fuse box.  I cleaned them all up and reconnected, turned the car into a mobile darkroom and looked for a glow on the charge lamp - couldn't see anything.  Will look again tonight after dark.

Incidentally, the previous owner of Q2-340 had put in the wiring loom from an XR3 with the intention, I think, of fitting the Zetec engine.  I have a host of redundant wires and connectors floating around. One day in my retirement I might completely rewire it.

Martin

[chris...@btinternet.com]

I have a MK 4 Fiesta waiting to give up its dash for my saloon.

I’ve measured and it does fit if you cut off the side flanges.

I think there is an issue with the depth of the dash, it might need cutting down to fit.

I guess I’ll find out.

Attached are some photos I’ve collected over the years in preparation for this.....

 

Chris G

 

From: Jim Hearne

Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 9:21 AM

To: quantu...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] 2+2 with Puma interior + engine

 

In the UK you can’t pass the IVA test with air bags fitted to a kit car.

I think it’s something to do with possible injury if they aren’t mounted in the same way as the original car.

 

Quantum always used to say that the Mk3/4 Fiesta and Puma dash was too wide to fit in a 2+2 but i know it’s been done.

I think the flanges would have to be cut off the sides of the dash.

 

Jim

 

 

 

 

From: Hans Defauwes

Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 9:16 AM

To: quantu...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] 2+2 with Puma interior + engine

 

Some time ago a 2+2 with a Puma Interior and engine was sold on e-bay.

 

Does anybody know the new owner?

 

I realy like the idea of the puma dash with 2 airbags etc.

I can get a low milage one for cheap . . .

 

Hans

 

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[Jim Hearne]

I think the fun bit will be mating up the MK2 heater box with the Mk4 vents and making it work (the temperature control on the Mk4 is done with a solenoid valve in the heater hose).

That and the steering column area.

 

Jim

[Darren Siepka]

The most work is with the heater box, I had to enlarge the fan opening and glass in a new box around that area to stop water ingress.

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[Hans Defauwes]

interesting

what kind of daschord did you put in coupe/2+2

Do you have any pictures

 

Hans

 

From: Darren Siepka

Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 2:34 PM

To: quantu...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] 2+2 with Puma interior + engine

 

[Hans Defauwes]

In the last picture I spotted the original XR2 clocks in the new dashbord

 

good Idea, it saves a lot of work/redesining electronics

 

Hans

 

From: chris.quant via Quantum Owners Group

[Darren Siepka]

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Darren Siepka <dsmi...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018, 21:11
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] 2+2 with Puma interior + engine

To: <quantu...@googlegroups.com>

I used a rs1800i MK3.5 black dash, complete with the proper MK3.5 heater. I also used puma white dial clocks.

The wiring for the dash was pretty straightforward the Speedo pickup screws in to the gearbox just like a cable does.

I will see if I can find the build photos .

This is in a saloon .

Only the outer fixing brackets (near door) needed cutting and  modifying

Steering wise I have a mgf epas power column complete with switch gear and wheel

[Jamest142]

Hi

This is really strange - must be down to the weather...  Q2-002 had the same problem, I thought it was the battery, changed it, then a new alternator.  I eventually found thanks to Jim senior that there is a wire from the battery which goes from the battery negative to just above the starter motor - clamped by the bell housing for the clutch - nice thick wire, but totally covered in oil and crud.  When I touched the engine end - it moved.  I just tightened it up again, and the problem seems to have gone away.  I have got a secondary battery earth going to the 'wrong' side of the clutch bell housing, but this does not seem to have much effect as it has at least 5 joins before it gets to the alternator.

TTFN

James T

Q2-002

[Nigel Plant]

Yes, I'm around there. Not had much time today, but did hook voltmeter up. 15v from alternator, no difference across  battery between engine running and not, around 12.6V indicating a poor connection across starter. Main battery earth and all auxiliaries cleaned with no difference. Am favouring Steve's input and will clean/ check all leads between battery and alternator on Sunday, they are very oily!

The bit I am struggling with is 15v from alternator going to ignition bulb, why does it light up? Is it because alternator is supplying a higher voltage to bulb than it receives from battery. So there is a nett 2.5 v across the bulb. I had always assumed light glowed when battery voltage was higher than alternator output. Guess it's all logical unless a diode is present preventing a reverse current.

Some of this is rhetorical  haven't really got my thoughts together yet. Still will get there.

PS Am sorry that me posting this has caused other 2+2's to come out in sympathy 😀😀

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[Jim Hearne]

15V from the alternator where ?, on the warning light wire or the main terminals as well.
If it's the main terminals as well but only 12v at the battery then it must be a poor and broken connection between the alternator and starter.
Either the power wire or the earthing.

Unless it's an injection engine then there is no diode between the warning light connection on the alternator and the warning light.
So the warning light will come on with a voltage difference in either direction.
On injection engines there is a diode so the bulb only lights if the battery voltage is higher than the alternator voltage.
Which is what you are seeing.

Jim

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[Nigel Plant]

Thanks Jim, that good to know. I assumed that from the symptoms but didny know. The alternator voltage was alternator B+ to earth on engine. Will start tomorrow with earth to body which should then tell me if problem is with earth or positive. Although will clean and check all.

[chris...@btinternet.com]

I plan on not using the MK2 heater box.

I’ll either use the MK4 box or an after market one.

I’m also planning to fit air-con using an electric compressor from a Nissan Leaf.

[Jim Hearne]

>I’m also planning to fit air-con using an electric compressor from a Nissan Leaf.

Interesting,  i was wondering the other day how air con worked on an electric car.

Jim

[Darren Siepka]

I have a electric heater matrix from a Volvo(but says fomoco) that fits perfect under the water matrix for instant heat on those cold mornings.

For my 2+2 which is getting a Corsa c dash I have been looking to use a heat and cool AC box like these

https://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/universal-compact-air-conditioning-heater-kit

Though you can pickup the evaporator units for much less direct from HK or even the US

[chris...@btinternet.com]

>I have a electric heater matrix from a Volvo(but says fomoco) that fits perfect under the water matrix for instant heat on those cold mornings.

 

Interesting, I was thinking the same thing.

 

The list of bits I need to check out is getting longer...

 

Chris G

[chris...@btinternet.com]

Also fitted to Ford Focus 2005 – 2010 it seems....

 

Chris G

[Nigel Plant]

Steve, you got it in one. Chafed through. Thanks for the inputs guys.

[Steve Kodź]

I think these are becoming common on diesels as they take longer to generate heat.

Regards,

Steve

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