Reverb Plugins that work in QLab 3?

[Andrew Blizzard]

Hey,

I am exploring different options for Reverb plugins to use within QLab on Mic cues. I have referenced this list here https://figure53.hostedwiki.co/pages/QLab%203%20Audio%20Units 

Does anyone have any other reverbs that work well and are stable within Qlab? I'm hoping that I can find a decent sounding reverb for under $50 (or free if I can!).I am currently using FabFilter for delay and compression and so far it seems fairly stable, apart from the live graphics not showing at all...but that's easy to use without.

Cheers,

Andrew

[Jeremy Lee]

Waves Truverb works in both mono and stereo configurations. RenVerb works in stereo only. IR-1 works as well

- Jeremy Lee's mobile device

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[Andrew Blizzard]

Thanks for the recommendations. I'm trying to squeeze the remainder of my budget so I can purchase a reverb for the show, and the $125 for these is just a bit too much. Though I might make up for the difference myself just so I can have something decent for the show. 

I just purchased Exponential Audio PhoenixVerb and it sounds fantastic...going to try it in QLab later today. My problem is that it is iLok authorized so I need to be without the plugin while the show is  running. Not a huge deal as I can use QL Spaces for other projects in the interim.   

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[Andrew Blizzard]

Okay, I have done some testing with the Voxengo Old Skool Reverb within QLab 3 and there seems to be some stability issues. I have everything setup as recommended here on the QLab group.

Reverb is inserted on the Mic Cue Outputs and then routed using the Device Routing. I am getting periodic bursts of loud digital feedback and have to stop the mic cue to make it go away. This doesn`t happen all the time, and I can;t seem to figure out what is causing it. Sometimes the reverb works great. I have definitely noticed changing the order of effects while the cue is running is a no-no, as it results in the same "feedback". I deleted the reverb and then inserted it again, and the problem sometimes goes away, and sometimes it doesn't. By all accounts this Voxengo reverb should work well when setup this way. 

Is this normal behavior when using AU plugins within QLab? Should I be using only stereo instances? or just mono? I am only using one mic input.

Thanks

Andrew

 

 

[Andrew Blizzard]

I just got back from my first night in the theatre doing "pre-levels" and had a horrific time trying to get AU plugins to work within QLab 3. I have all my effects on the Mic Cue Outputs as suggested here. I managed to get Voxengo Old Skool Verb to work okay, and it sound pretty decent. But, anytime I tried to insert a delay plugin I kept getting the same horrible digital feedback through my speakers. I tried the Apple AUDelay, FabFilter TImeless, and Plug & Mix Multi Tap Delay and they all did the same thing. The feedback sounds like a machine gun! And it plays back at a consistent level regardless  of the levels set within QLab. 

People have talked about having success using AU plugins when inserted on the Mic Cue Outputs...but for me it's been frustratingly bad. I'm thankful it was just me in the theatre tonight and not any actors dealing with these loud bursts. I have a live mic session tomorrow night that I would love to have something reliable to use. Any advice?

Cheers,

Andrew

[Andy Lang]

On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 2:18 AM, Andrew Blizzard <abl...@gmail.com> wrote:

People have talked about having success using AU plugins when inserted on the Mic Cue Outputs...but for me it's been frustratingly bad. I'm thankful it was just me in the theatre tonight and not any actors dealing with these loud bursts. I have a live mic session tomorrow night that I would love to have something reliable to use. Any advice?

Hi Andrew,

I've never seen reports of any similar problems before, so I'd like to take this over to our support email, so we can work directly with you to try to figure out what's going on. To troubleshoot this, we're going to need to see some logs from your computer. If the computer this was happening on is connected to the internet, you can just go to the Help menu and choose "Contact support..." Then put your email address in the contact field, and mention that we started talking on the Google Group in the notes field. Finally, check the boxes that say "Send details..." and "Include logs", and hit the button to submit the report.

If the computer is not online, you'll have to send them manually, which is a little more work. You can get the console logs as follows:

1) Launch /Applications/Utilities/Console.app

2) Click "All Messages"

3) Export this as a file, which you can do from the File menu

4) Email a copy of it, along with a note to let us know it's a continuation of this discussion from the Google Group, to sup...@figure53.com

Thanks!

-Andy

(And yes, for those following along at home, I'll make sure we report back with anything we find here, for the future record :-)

[Chris Ashworth]

Hi Andrew,

Indeed, I also haven’t I’ve heard (or heard about) anything like this before.

In addition to what Andy requested, a few more questions:

• Were you using an aggregate device?
• If you applied the same effects to audio cue outputs did the same thing happen?
• Were these effects on the same outputs or different outputs?

Best,

Chris

[Andrew Blizzard]

I won't be back at the theatre until tonight, so I will send the requested logs then. In the interim I can answer your questions Chris.

Not using an aggregate device. (I've heard they are unstable)

In my prelim testing with multiple plugins I did not encounter this problem. But I haven't tested it further. I will tonight though. 

Different outputs.  

Thanks for chiming in everyone.

Andrew. 

[Lists]

Hmm 

Does the dry signal have good gain before feedback?  The reverb will be more tolerant of some of the signal from the speakers leaking back into the mics, but the simple delays will not - ad will add pulses to the feedback with each delay point.  I've had good luck with the waves delays, and cannot recreate the issue you are having with the AUdelay unless i generate some acoustic feedback.  From you description of the system earlier you were panning the delay signal around several onstage speakers - are the microphones you're using in the coverage pattern of the speakers?

Charles Coes

cco...@gmail.com
www.charlescoes.com
"Man is an antientropic creature; he is a random-to-orderly arranger and tries to perceive patterns in all things." R. Murray Schafer

[Andrew Blizzard]

The dry signal does have good gain, but this problem is happening instantaneously with touching the fader on the mic cue. So it hasn't even had a chance to send signal and feedback (such as leaking back into the mics). Also, I wearing the mic a good 30 feet away from any speaker while doing this. 

I can guarantee this is not acoustic feedback. It seriously sounds like a machine gun (ratatattattattattattat)

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[Chris Ashworth]

Hm, whatever it is, I don’t think it's from QLab, per se. There’s nothing in the audio signal chain to create that.

[micpool]

One point that's probably worth making about effects inserted in cue outputs on the settings page.

If you have a delay effect,  and  it goes  into  extreme acoustic feedback, then even after you have killed the cue that is feeding it, or pressed ESC the delay will continue outputting until whatever state the delay is in runs the  natural course of it's decay. If it's gone unstable and the delay feedback and/or times are set high this might take a very long time.

However if you are sure that there is no acoustic feedback, unplug the microphone and repeat the test. Does the instability disappear?

One other thing that occurred to me. Reading your earlier posts you seem to be saying you were intending having 33 cue inserts with AU effects chains applied. Just how many plugins have you got inserted in total?

Mic

[micpool]

And do you have Apple AU pitch in the chain anywhere? That does a great machine gun impersonation in feedback!

Mic

[Andrew Blizzard]

If it's gone unstable and the delay feedback and/or times are set high this might take a very long time.

This makes sense. However, this happens before any signal has been fed to the unit at all. When I start the mic cue, all levels are at inf. So nothing is being sent to the delay.  It is instantaneous when I move a fader in a mic cue that I get this problem. And, I get the exact same sound with different plugins, using different settings. I tried a whole bunch of plugins last night in the theatre, so I can't be 100% sure on this right now, but I think this also happened using a tremolo/pan effect.

However if you are sure that there is no acoustic feedback, unplug the microphone and repeat the test. Does the instability disappear?

I will test this tonight and see.

One other thing that occurred to me. Reading your earlier posts you seem to be saying you were intending having 33 cue inserts with AU effects chains applied. Just how many plugins have you got inserted in total?

I currently only have 4 Voxengo Reverbs and 1 AU pitch instantiated within the Cue Inserts. But the errors I am getting are when using a cue ouput that has no other plugins on it at all. I haven't even got a chance to bog the system down with too many plugins! I was eager to see how many it could handle...

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[Andrew Blizzard]

And do you have Apple AU pitch in the chain anywhere? That does a great machine gun impersonation in feedback!

Now that you mention it, I have a AU pitch instantiated on the Mic Cue! It is not doing anything as I was going to use a fade cue to lower the pitch. So, I guess that with all this testing, there is an AU pitch plugin right on the Mic Cue. Sheesh...I completely forgot that it was there and got caught up in the plugins, thinking they were the problem. 

Could this be causing all these problems??

[micpool]

AU pitch will only do it's machine gun thing if pitched down and feeding back. But if you aren't using it at the moment get rid of it.

From what you have said when you start the cue with all sliders  down you have a stable system. As soon as you open a slider the instability happens. The first thing is to establish beyond any doubt that this is not acoustic feedback. Try unplugging the mic, and as a separate test  setting the input on the mic cue to inf (i.e the left most column marked inputs under the master slider level box in device and levels).   

If it still happens set up an identical FX chain in a normal audio cue (and replicate the cue output inserts in the audio rather than the mic settings). Is the system stable with that?

Are you sure you do not have anything in the system that could be connecting an output to an input?. Either a cable physically doing this on your interface as a loopback, a soft patch in soundflower,  or an interface control panel that allows this.

[Lists]

There is also the possibility that your interface has a DSP mixer in it that is causing some digital feedback in the interface? This could be caused by errant crossspoints in the mic cue device routing tab.

Charles Coes

cco...@gmail.com
www.charlescoes.com
"Man is an antientropic creature; he is a random-to-orderly arranger and tries to perceive patterns in all things." R. Murray Schafer