midi editing question

[peter]

Hi Listers,

this is a question for those who have Pro Tools and Logic Pro X.
the midi editor in pro tools isn't accessible in some way. If I understand it well
Logic Pro X should be better for this job.

The last update of lp addresses a lot of bugfixes for voiceover users and it stands that the piano roll is accessible.
Does this means that midi editing is a doable job.
If someone could tell me what can we do or not?

Thanks in advance

With kind regards,

Peter

[Slau Halatyn]

Yep,

Don't use the MIDI Editor in Pro Tools, use the MIDI Event List which lays everything out in a table. There are a few quirks but it works. I'll be doing a bunch of MIDI work next week so I'll try to gather a few pointers and put something together as an outline of what one should be aware of when using the MIDI Event List.
Slau

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[peter]

Hi Slau,

That would be great. :)

grtz

Peter

[Slau Halatyn]

Hi Peter,

I'm finally starting to work on an upcoming project that involves MIDI and I've refreshed my memory on a few tips. Hopefully, this will help.

The MIDI Event List is what you'll use primarily. that said, you'll need to have the Edit window at least opened in the background. The MIDI Event List is essentially just a table. As you'd expect, double-clicking a field will create an edit box around the field and you can type in a value and press Return to enter that value. Be aware that sometimes VoiceOver will read the new value but, unless you press Return to enter that value, the change won't take effect because the edit field hasn't truly been changed until that Return key has been pressed. Also, I should point out that it's best to either use a mouse or track pad but double pressing Control-Option-Shift-Space Bar will also work if the mouse pointer is routed to the VoiceOver cursor.

When you click on an event in the list, it becomes highlighted and, if you have a module or virtual instrument active, you'll hear the note as well. When the event is highlighted, the entire row gets highlighted including the start time, pitch, velocity, etc. When you double-click a specific field, only that field gets the edit box until you press Return.

You can move the edit box to the left or right by using the left or right arrow keys. So, let's say you wanted to change the start time of a note and let's assume we're in bars and beats. If you read down the event list to the note you wish to change and you've focused on the start time, double-clicking the start time in the event list row for that note will both highlight the event and create an edit box around the bar number. Pressing the right arrow will move the edit box to the beat field and pressing it again will move it to the tick field. You can enter a value and hit Return and the selected note will move to the newly edited start time.

Let's say you wanted to edit the pitch. If you double-click on the pitch, you can either type a value or press a note on your controller. Let's say you wanted to change the velocity as well. Instead of pressing Return after having changed the pitch, you could press the right arrow to move the edit box to the velocity field, enter a new velocity and then press Return.

Here's one more thing to be aware of regarding moving between fields in a row in the Event List: If you're in a start or length field where there are a few subdivisions associated with that main column, pressing the decimal key will cycle through the subdivisions much like it cycles through them to enter a start value or main counter value. It'll just keep cycling and not proceed to the other columns like pitch and velocity. This is neither a good nor a bad thing but it's just something to be aware of.

Here's something else to keep in mind that might trip people up: Just as VoiceOver can see things that are not necessarily visible in the Mix window and technically off-screen, the same applies to the MIDI Event List. If you get into the table and start reading down the list with VoiceOver, you can move through an entire song but the window won't necessarily visually scroll. If you then go to double-click on a value, the mouse will actually be clicking on something entirely different like the desktop or something. What you need to do in a case like this is first select the event by clicking on it with VoiceOver. This selects the event in Pro tools but then you have to use Command-h to bring that event into focus in the MIDI Event List window. The window will scroll the selected event into view. Now if you double-click it with the mouse, the edit box will appear as expected.

So that's the main overall picture. Here's an alternative and, for some folks, perhaps it'll work better under certain circumstances. I wouldn't recommend it as default procedure but, again, it's an alternative and, in a way, perhaps easier or more verifiable.

When you click on an event in the MIDI Event List, the Edit window reflects the selection. Just as selecting a range displays various values in the edit window's counter display, selecting an event in the MIDI Event List defines a start point of the event, an end point, a length and even pitch, velocity etc. If you've selected an event in the Event List, press Command-accent to cycle to the Edit window. You'll notice that in the counter display cluster, the note pitch and velocity, among other things, are displayed.

Let's say you selected middle c and it landed on bar 1, beat 1 and 56 ticks. With the note selected, you can press the slash key on the numeric keypad 3 times to get to the ticks field, enter 0 and hit Enter to change the start time of the note to be at bar 1, beat 1 and zero ticks. Note that, since we're using the num pad to modify the value, we need to use the Enter key rather than the Return key like we did in the MIDI Event List window. The same editing options can be used to change the end time or duration. Again, pressing Enter after typing the new values.

You can also change the pitch or velocity in the counter display cluster of the Edit window. Here, however, you don't need to double-click. You can simply click one once on the value with Control-Option-Space Bar, type the value or press a note on a controller and hit Return.

I should reiterate that this alternative method which I just described involves cycling between the Event List and the Edit window. While each window has focus, the down and up arrow keys will behave differently. In the Event List, if there's an event selected, the arrow keys will selecte notes as the keys are pressed. This doesn't select a range but rather individual notes at a time whether you're moving up or down. The same arrow keys have a very different function in the Edit window, of course. If you press the down arrow in the Edit window, you will move the insertion point to reflect the Start time and it will deselect any duration or note value. In other words, with this alternate method, one has to be conscious of which window is active and when to use the arrow keys for which purpose.

So, there are advantages to either method, I suppose. Hopefully, that'll help some folks with their MIDI editing. There are still some peculiarities regarding how Pro Tools displays bank and program change values in the Event List. It's an active bug which I hope will be resolved in the future. As always, things sound so much more complicated when they're written out. All of this is actually quite easy when you've done it a bit.

Best,
Slau
parameters

On Apr 12, 2016, at 8:22 AM, peter <peter.du...@gmail.com> wrote:

[peter]

Hi Slau,

Thanks for the update, I'll take a look when I'm find some time. :)
Keep you posted.

kr

Peter

[Steve Matzura]

This message is one of the most helpful I've had in this topic area.
Thanks so much, brother New Yorker.

[Slau Halatyn]

Glad to hear it, Steve. Hopefully, it'll help some folks.
Cheers,
Slau

[Tim Liu]

Hi Slau:

I already following your step to control the midi event list in my old project, but is not exactly focus the event to edit the time/verlosity.
I create the new project is OK, but I want to edit back my old project, can you help me?

[Slau Halatyn]

Hi Tim,

There's nothing else that I can offer except one important bit of advice that you should always remember when using VoiceOver and physical mouse clicks: Make sure there are no other windows blocking the window within which you're trying to click. Use Control-Option-f2 f2 (that is, function 2 twice in a row) to bring up the Window Chooser menu. This list should have nothing other than the Mix and Edit windows along with the MIDI Event list (which should be the foremost window and there should be no other windows in that list. If so, focus on that window and close it.

Hope that helps,

Slau

[Tim Liu]

Hi Slau:

I already try this method but is not take effect.
Now, I'm more interested to know I should buy the apple mouse or not?
because I'm a totally blind, but I mean you say press the physical
mouse can fix the problem, so I want to learn about how do you do?

Thanks

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[TheOreoMonster]

You do need to have a mouse attached to your computer if you aren’t using a laptop. This can be one of the apple mic but most any USB or BlueTooth mice should work as well. If you have laptop then the trackpad is your mouse.

[Slau Halatyn]

Hi Tim,

I would recommend the Apple Magic Track Pad. While a mouse is OK, sometimes in the process of physically locating it on a table or desktop can cause the mouse pointer to move. With a track pad, it doesn't matter exactly where you tap the pad. I find it far better than a mouse—just something to consider.
Slau

[Tim Liu]

Hi Slau:

I use MacBook Pro now, so already have apple track pad,
What should I do now?
can you step by step to teach me?
excuse, forgive my stupid please.

Thanks

[Slau Halatyn]

Hi Tim,

Hopefully, you'll understand how difficult it is to give step-by-step instructions because there's no way I can know what your starting point is. However, I'll try to explain exactly what I would do myself if I were experiencing problems.

1. I'd make sure no other applications are running except Pro Tools.

2. I would close all windows except for the Mix and Edit windows and I would keep the Edit window as the foremost window.

3. I'd press Control-Option-f2 twice in a row to open the window chooser menu and make sure that there are no other windows like system dialogs open.

4. I'd enter the approximate bar/beat location where I want to edit by using the numeric keypad.

5. I'd press Option-= (equals) to open the MIDI Event List.

6. I'd use voiceOver to navigate to the value I want to change.

7. I'd click once on that event to select it.

8. I'd press Command-h to make sure the event is focused visibly in the MIDI Event List window.

9. I'd navigate to the field I want to change.

10. I'd simply use Control-Option-Shift along with the Space Bar twice to double-click the field.

11. I'd type in the value I want and I'd press Return on the qwerty keyboard.

If I've ever had any issue whatsoever, following the steps above would always result in success. Once you follow the initial steps, you don't have to repeat them. Just navigate, select and, if you've moved through a significant number of events (like 30 or 40), it's a good idea to use the Command-h shortcut to scroll that event into view once you've selected that event.

Hopefully that helps,

Slau