Need tech support for Stentura 400 SRT

[Bryan Westby]

I have a cable connecting my steno machine to my laptop, which is one cable with a 9-pin serial end and a USB end. My computer has a 15-pin port, so I could totally use a 9-pin to 15-pin serial cable, if I knew where to find one. Anyway, when I open Plover, I get the stroke display box and the box that says Plover Running. It also says Stentura: disconnected. I hit configure and scan, and it finds the USB port, and lists Baudrate 9600, Data format 8/1/N, so I hit  OK and Save. Stentura initializing...and Stentura disconnected. When I hit the refresh button, same thing. 

Any ideas? I posted about a month ago, and then did some Stenograph research, but found nothing. Mirabai suggested I check in here and see what you guys think.

Thank you!

[Glen Warner]

Hi, Bryan.

I have an old Dell sitting here (it's pretty much dead), so I took a look at the ports on it.

The serial port that you should be using has is the one with nine pins, because that's actually the serial port.  I suspect that the fifteen pin port you're dealing with is for an external monitor.

You can see the rear of my Dell here:

http://www.cheapandsleazy.net/images/cs_dell_rear.gif

The ports are, from left to right, as follows:

Serial, Parallel printer, docking station, (fan), PS2, the hard-to-see USB port, and the external monitor.

When you get a chance, go here:

http://www.cheapandsleazy.net/troubleshooting.html

Hopefully that will help a bit ....

Good luck!

--gdw

[Glen Warner]

Oops.

http://www.cheapandsleazy.net/troubleshooting.html

--gdw

On Monday, February 3, 2014 8:57:54 PM UTC-8, Bryan Westby wrote:

[Bryan Westby]

Thanks for the response, Glen. Unfortunately, I don't have a nine pin port on my laptop, just the 15. It's either that, or a USB port.

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[Brent Nesbitt]

On Windows I think you need a driver for your serial->usb cable.  The straight serial cable (9-pin-15pin) should not require a driver.

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[Glen Warner]

Hi, Bryan.

My Mac doesn't have one of those serial ports; just USB (plus a few others that I've never used) ... so yes, I have to use the USB-Serial adapter to use my writer with ... well, anything.

Ideally, you would plug in the USB-serial adapter into your laptop's USB port, and something from Stenograph into the other end of the adapter.

Perhaps posting a picture of what you're working with might help ....

--gdw

[Bryan Westby]

Okay. It sounds like a serial to USB cable will work. Do I have to use one from Stenograph or will one from Radio Shack do?

[Fred James]

I have in my hands a USB-Serial cable (M-M) sold to me in a Stenograph package, complete with driver CD.  There are no markings that would indicate it is any different than a normal such cable.  Even the "logo" molded into the cable end does not look like anything "Stenograph".  It is of course made in China and came packaged in a "Stenograph" plastic bag.  I suppose I could put an ohm meter to it to check pin-pin connections, if I knew what normal should be?
Regards
Fred James

Bryan Westby wrote:

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[Brent Nesbitt]

I have used several non-Stenograph USB-Serial adapters with no problems with my Elan Cybra (including a $3 one off EBay from Hong Kong).  However, I have heard reports that others have found adapters that are flaky or just plain don't work.  I think it is a bit easier to get them working on Linux (my case), since no drivers are required, but most cables come with drivers nonetheless.  There appear to be 4 or 5 main chipset manufacturers for these cables (prolific, and FTDI are common ones), so you could try downloading windows drivers off their respective sites.

[Fred James]

One of the issues (in case someone doesn't know) is that one must also have the Stenograph serial cable in the mix, or it won't work ... says Stenograph.
Regards
Fred James

[Brent Nesbitt]

This is not true.
At least not with my elan cybra.  And i would be almost certain with any stenograph machine.
It is a generic cable.

[Bryan Westby]

Yes, it seems I need just the three objects (steno machine, cable, laptop) as outlined by Glen's site.

I ordered a serial-to-USB cable from Stenograph, but they sent the wrong one, as the one they sent me had female screw-ins, and I need the male to screw into my Steno 9-pin. The one I bought from Radio Shack is a GigaWare brand. It physically hooks the Stentura to my PC (9-pin to USB) but this is where I get the "disconnected" response. 

I have three USB ports on my PC, and every time I try one and open Plover, hit Configure and Scan, it's recognizing the correct port (COM4, COM5 or COM6). But once I hit OK and Save, I get the "initializing" message, and then Stentura: disconnected. Since it recognizes the different USB ports, and other hardware works from these ports, it seems that's not the issue. I could try reinstalling the GigaWare driver....   

[Bryan Westby]

I repaired/reinstalled the driver for the GigaWare cable and restarted the PC. I got the Found New Hardware USB Serial Cable message, so it would seem the driver and cable are functioning. But in Plover, I still get "Stentura: disconnected." 

The College of Court Reporting online school recommended CaseCATalyst ($500) AND a new steno machine, as the Stentura 400 SRTs "have difficulty with USB connections -- you would need an adapter, or go wireless." Of course, at the College of Legal Arts three years ago, I could simply plug the machine into a computer with CaseCATalyst, and it would work. I'm skeptical about purchasing $500 software if I'm not sure my writer can communicate with my computer. I'd much rather get Plover working first, but I've ran out of troubleshooting ideas.

[Bryan Westby]

By the way, thank you all for the tips and suggestions. I'm still working on the problem, and trying to figure out what I'm missing or overlooking.

[Fred James]

I know everyone is saying it isn't needed (except Stenograph), but have you tried ...
[steno-machine]-[Stenograph serial cable]-[usb to serial cable]-[computer]
...?

[Mike Neale]

Whatever you do, DON'T buy CaseCATalyst or a new steno machine! There are Plover users on this group that have confirmed that the Stentura 400 SRT works with Plover. I almost bought one myself but instead bought an Elan Cybra and a standard cable from my local PC store and that works fine.

Here is what I would do (I'm assuming you're on windows).

Plug in your steno machine via your serial-usb cable.

I assume when you did this a few days ago, a bubble popped up saying it was installing the drivers for it?

Click the start button

Right click "Computer" and click "Manage"

A new window opens called "Computer Management"

On the left, click on Device Manager

On the right you should now see a list of device types such as "Network Adapters" and "Ports"

Expand the one called "Ports (COM & LPT)"

In here you should see a list of devices attached to your computer via COM ports.

One of them should be your steno machine.

Does it show up in there?

[Bryan Westby]

@Fred:No, but this is the next step I can take, to get the Stenograph software people on the phone to explain what I need. They sold me a serial-USB cable that is supposed to plug into another cable that I don't have. Possibly if I use a Stenograph driver, my laptop would recognize my writer.
@Mike: Yes, the device manager correctly identifies the port to which the cable is connected, but not the writer -- just the cable, itself.

[Mike Neale]

Hi Bryan.

I assume it shows the cable but not the machine because you can't physically connect the cable to the machine? Because of the screw-ins both being female and you can't get the cable into the port on your machine. Is this right?

When I bought my cable, I made the mistake of getting one that had female screw in posts despite my machine also having female screw in posts. What I did was remove the posts from the machine. Notice they are hexagonal and can be unscrewed. I know its not an ideal solution but to test the cable you could unscrew the posts and plug it in. If it works with plover then all you need is a generic serial to serial port with male screws on either end.

[Mike Neale]

If you get either of the cables connected (the GigaWare one should work just as well as the official stenograph one), the problem may just be a case of settings.

First thing to make sure is that when you click "Scan", it may have multiple COM ports in there. Make sure after clicking Scan that the correct port is selected. After clicking Scan, Plover will select the port with the lowest number, not necessarily the one that your machine is connected to. Make sure the number matches the one in device manager.

Once that is correct, go into device manager, right click on the COM port named "Stenograph Writer" or whatever it shows up as, and click Properties.

Go to the Port Settings tab.

Make sure these settings all match the ones in Plover.

I'm not sure if Plover pays attention to these or whether it overrides them but I try to keep them matching just in-case.

Try all of the different "Parity" settings.

I initially had exactly the same problem with mine until I switched the Parity from None to Even (I think) and then it worked.

Try those out. If they don't work, try all the different flow control settings in conjunction with all the different Parity settings. If that still doesn't work then there is likely a driver issue with the serial-usb cable. Try the other cable if possible or else try another set of drivers.

Also, do you have to press a key on the machine to enable real-time communication? On mine I don't but not sure about the SRT 400.

[Brent Nesbitt]

Bryan,

You are installing a driver for the cable, not for the machine.  Serial cables don't know how to speak "USB", so they need a driver.  Therefore, plugging in the disconnected cable to your computer, will install the driver, and show up in your device manager as connected - even without the machine plugged in.  

Plugging in the machine won't make any difference to the device manager, and it will continue to just see the cable.  (somebody could prove me wrong on this point, however)

From my experience, the steno machine doesn't seem to send any information to the computer when it is plugged in.  It must first receive a correctly formatted packet from the computer, before it will respond.

If you were to get a straight serial cable (9 pin to 15 pin is fine), it will remove the need for a driver.  And Plover already speaks "Stenograph", so the machine should connect.

However, newer computers often don't have serial ports, so the plain serial cable is not an option.

[Mike Neale]

How's it going Bryan? Any luck with your machine?

[Bryan Westby]

I ordered the realtime cable from Stenograph, so I'm waiting for that to arrive.  Sounds like that will do the trick, a 9-pin serial-to-serial, plus a 9-pin serial-to-USB. I'll let you know. Thanks!

[Bryan Westby]

Success! Thank you!  Plover works via my Stentura, and I  can translate in real time via Open Office Writer. Now I just need to find.a tutorial on programming a dictionary so the translates fit.

[Ricardo Pietrobon]

Bryan, this sounds awesome! Not sure this would be the best thread to explore the bit where you talk about translation and programming a dictionary, but could you expand on that?

[Mike Neale]

Hi Bryan. Great news :) What was the problem in the end? Was it your other serial-to-usb cable?

I also had a problem with the first serial-to-usb adapter I bought but the second one I tried (one from my local shop) worked fine. I haven't tried many but I'd go as far as to say that 80% of serial-to-usb adapters will work with Stentura machines. Sounds like you had one of the 20%.

I'm glad it's working, enjoy Plover!

P.S. Are you trying to create a dictionary for the theory you write?

[Bryan Westby]

The problem was I connected my machine to my computer with a serial-to-USB cable, which apparently doesn't work with a Stentura and a PC. I plugged the $40 serial-to-serial realtime cable into the $15 serial-to-USB adapter cable, and it works.

As for the dictionary, I'm not new at steno, but I'm new at using software, so I'm not sure how to use Plover. That is,  I'm using Phoenix theory, and some of the stroke translations don't match how I write certain things. Is there a dictionary in Plover that I can access, or do I somehow build a translator in the text editor? Thanks again!

[Hesky Fisher]

Hi Bryan,

Plover comes with one dictionary that follows a theory we're calling Plover theory. It is based on the theory used at NYCI, which is itself based on StenEd. To use another theory you will need to get or make a dictionary for that theory. You can then open it in Plover and you should be all set to go.

Hesky

[Mike Neale]

Oh right. Well I'm glad it's working.

If you have a Phoenix dictionary in rtf file format then that will work with Plover. I have a version and I converted it to Plover's default format (json) but sadly I am not allowed to distribute it.

You can probably get an rtf file from Kathy at Phoenix but you'll have to pay for it.

[Bryan Westby]

Thanks, Mike and Hesky. I guess my question is how do I edit the dictionary in Plover? Would it take a bit of computer programming to access it? 

[Mike Neale]

Hi Bryan.

You can open the dict.json file using a simple text editor like notepad.

The dict.json file can be found like this:

In Plover, click "Configure..."

Click the "Logging" tab

Copy the file path in "Log File" (don't copy the "plover.log" bit on the end)

Paste that path into a windows explorer window and hit enter

You should now see dict.json file in that folder. This is the Plover dictionary

You can edit this in notepad.

If you're planning on updating it to be compatible with Phoenix theory I would advise against this. As you know, there are a lot of differences between StenEd and Phoenix theory and it will probably take years to change the dictionary into a Phoenix dictionary one entry at a time.

[Glen Warner]

Bryan --

Congratulations on figuring out what was wrong.

As for the Phoenix theory dictionary, Mike is right -- you're going to need to either contact Stenograph or Kathy Dittmier to get a copy of the Phoenix Theory dictionary.

However, instead of modifying that dictionary, you should take a look at this one:

http://www.cheapandsleazy.net/dictionaries.html

In that article, I talk about how I manage my dictionaries in digitalCAT.

The important thing for you would be those extra dictionaries -- in this case, the "Glenz" dictionary and the "Q&A_Fast" dictionary (which I've since merged into one dictionary, which I call "Glenz_Fast").

In short, you're going to need an empty .rtf dictionary, into which you can add all of the Phoenix Theory updates that you can find both on the Phoenix theory website (http://www.phoenixtheory.com/content/job-dictionaries-all-pt-editions), and the new stuff that gets posted in the "Pho*enix Theory Briefs and Phrases" Facebook group (http://www.facebook.com/groups/211355112238601).

Finally, if I recall correctly, Heskey is working on a dictionary management tool similar to the one in digitalCAT, which is what I'm using to manage my dictionaries on my Mac under Wine (http://www.cheapandsleazy.net/darwine.html ... which I'm fairly certain won't work with the current versions of digitalCAT).

Well. I've prattled on long enough. Good luck!

--gdw

[Bryan Westby]

Okay. I can add translations, or even add dictionaries in the dictionary tab under configure, so I'm now a functioning stenographer. :)

I think you're right that it would take a few years to completely modify the current dictionary, but I'll contact Kathy Dittmeier. I didn't even know there was a Kathy Dittmeier. Brilliant! I've made a few theory modifications, for example using a Z (SWR) for the soft X, which eliminates KP conflicts, but a Phoenix file would be the place to start.

I'm writing at about 150wpm, and in-between schools for financial reasons, so I think a large dose of dictionary work is what I need to get to the next level. All my technical questions have been answered, so thank you all very much for the help! Plover rocks!

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[Barbara Wirks]