Pearson 28 vibration.... sometimes

[eba...@gmail.com]

I have a 1986 Pearson 28-2, with a Yanmar 2gm20f. When I back out of the slip and start to motor forward, everything is smooth, without any vibrations. After a day of sailing and then starting the engine, I get a loud vibration that shakes the boat and sounds like banging below. I have taken it out of gear, put it in reverse for a couple seconds and back to forward. A couple of times this has fixed the vibration. Other times, that does nothing. Any ideas of what I could look into. The boat in on the hard for the winter.

[Ron Buchanan]

This will be a long shot...

I've heard of bad stuffing box packing doing just that. When you first start out, everything is grand. As water gets to the packing ( as it should), the shaft can create a vibration. I'd start there if it was me. 

-Ron

Crescendo #161, Urbanna, Va

On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 4:18 PM -0500, <eba...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a 1986 Pearson 28-2, with a Yanmar 2gm20f. When I back out of the slip and start to motor forward, everything is smooth, without any vibrations. After a day of sailing and then starting the engine, I get a loud vibration that shakes the boat and sounds like banging below. I have taken it out of gear, put it in reverse for a couple seconds and back to forward. A couple of times this has fixed the vibration. Other times, that does nothing. Any ideas of what I could look into. The boat in on the hard for the winter.

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[eba...@gmail.com]

Ron,  Thanks for the information. What would I look for to be able to tell if it's not right? Is this a difficult thing to fix or something I should have the marina look into? Eric

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I would also check the shaft coupling just aft of the transmission flange.  Is it properly seated to the prop shaft?  Are the set screws tight?  Any signs of movement? 

 

Dan Pfeiffer

[Ron Buchanan]

I'm all about DIY. You may want to start here...

https://youtu.be/gq0cbqysxeg

This will give you an idea if you're up to it. 

-Ron

[kmart...@gmail.com]

Ebard,

 

What type of Prop do you have?

Mine also does that on occasion,   usually when just starting moving under power and then switching gears. (i.eI back out of slip, then shift to forward….starts banging )

Vibration and banging sound.    If I change direction Forward / to reverse or reverse to forward with some throttle it Usually clears it right up.

 

I have a three bladed feathering Autoprop.     

My cutlass bearing seems in good shape… And I have a PPS on the shaft. 

 

I have two theories on the cause

1. the e prop not having completely rotated into the proper position yet.
2. I have a prop nose cone zinc.  By mid season enough has worn away near the bolts that hold it on, that there is a gap and play between the prop and zinc.

             The banging /vibration might also be caused by the zinc  initially hitting the prop… until the prop is spinning fast enough.

Those are my only two theories as to cause.   

 

Ken

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

[Peter Ogilvie]

You don't mention what the prop ia but it's a classic issue with folding props.  One blade sticks in the stream position which throws the prop temporarily way out of balance

[diane bonnell]

hmm - if you do have a folding/feathering prop, this does sound like
an issue, especially as shifting in/out of reverse seems to help.

do you lock in gear while sailing? (not sure if this is recommended
w/ a folding/feathering prop?)

other than that - i'd check everything along the shaft from the inside
(coupling, packing), and maybe also look at the engine end of the
shift cable. if all seems ok, then haul the boat and check the shaft,
prop, zincs etc from the outside. somethings loose - you just gotta
find it.


...diane

[Richard S. Usen]

Banging…. Is this a metal to metal banging? You might have a broken motor mount. Unless you have a good yard, you likely have better know-how on this list. I’d trust the names you addressed sooner than a yard.

I suggest you study the motor mounts carefully. When the engine is running, it tends to encourage the engine to move toward    it’s neutral axis position. When you shut it down, and if it’s a good sailing day, the engine might shift a bit on the mounts. That could do it. Try prying up on the mounts and see if the engine moves. It shouldn’t. Split the transmission coupling and check it for misalignment. It’s too complicated to try to explain the process but misalignment could show something. Contact me off list and we can explore the problem. Where is the boat? 

use...@verizon.net
Dick Usen
T-33 Hopscotch

[Daniel LeBlond]

Do you have a Martek folding propeller? They have a habit of not opening both blades when the boat is moving forward, if the pivot pins are worn and things are out of alignment the whole boat shakes like something just came off and the shaft is going to come out. Significant forward motion causes the lower blade to be trailed astern while the sheltered blade gets less water flow and can more easily opens you put it in gear. The unbalanced condition this causes at the end of the shaft makes the shaft vibrate and twist a great deal. Check the fairing compound where your strut is mounted to the hull, if there is a crack around the strut root the prop isn’t opening both blades.

[Guy Johnson]

Would a quick burst of throttle open up the other blade?  

Guy

Puffin 10M #6

fixed 2-blade prop

---

From: pearso...@googlegroups.com <pearso...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Daniel LeBlond <dleb...@maine.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, January 2, 2017 10:06 PM
To: pearso...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [pearson ] Pearson 28 vibration.... sometimes

[Bill Robart]

With the boat out of the water I guess we can assume there isn't a "lobster buoy" and line wrapped around the shaft/prop. There are only a few areas of drive line problems left to investigate. Starting from the engine and working back there are the following things to check:

1. Engine alignment,

2. Output flange/shaft flange issues (loose bolts, loose shaft flange),

3. Bent shaft,

4. Stuffing box issues (worn out stuffing, overly loose or tight packing, bad hose,

5. Shaft log issues (lord knows how that would go bad but worth a look)

6. Cutlass bearing issues (see engine alignment, worn out bearing or loose bearing, or perhaps a dry bearing from a paint build up around the bearings ends),

7. Prop issues (out of balance, bent blade, bad bearing if it's a folding one).

Unfortunately, aside from a folding prop issue, I don't think any of the above would account for the intermittent vibration you describe nor can I imagine an engine operational issue that would be intermittent.

A word of warning about trying to trouble shoot the problem with the boat out of the water - if you run the engine do not engage forward or reverse as you could  damage the cutlass bearing.  The cutlass bearing is lubricated with water and it is dry when the boat is out of the water. If you do engage the transmission the horrible noise will be from the shaft wobbling in the bearing and you'll likely shift back to neutral quickly.

You can look for loose or bent stuff but you shouldn't do an engine alignment until the boat is in the water and the rig tuned for the season. Fortunately you have very easy access to the engine and shaft so doing an alignment and stuffing box work is easier than on many sailboats. Unless you fully understand how to align the engine and shaft it's a chore best left to a professional.

Good luck,

Bill

 

 Jan 2, 2017 at 4:18 PM, <eba...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a 1986 Pearson 28-2, with a Yanmar 2gm20f. When I back out of the slip and start to motor forward, everything is smooth, without any vibrations. After a day of sailing and then starting the engine, I get a loud vibration that shakes the boat and sounds like banging below. I have taken it out of gear, put it in reverse for a couple seconds and back to forward. A couple of times this has fixed the vibration. Other times, that does nothing. Any ideas of what I could look into. The boat in on the hard for the winter.

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[kkh...@uniontel.net]

Mine made a knocking noise when the aluminum angle piece that the motor mounts were bolted to came loose from the boat. There was actually movement in that aluminum angle piece and the boat. I simply tighten the bolts that go into the boat and it was fine

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[Guy Johnson]

Aim a hose at the cutlass bearing, for the amount of time the shaft will be turning it will be fine. But I don't know if testing the folding prop out of  the water will be anything more than a very basic test, without the water flowing over the prop. 

guy

Sent from Outlook

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Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2017 3:23 PM

To: pearso...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pearson ] Pearson 28 vibration.... sometimes

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[eba...@gmail.com]

It is a metal to metal sound. I have a 2 blade, fixed prop. I'm going to check out the boat this weekend and inspect the motor mounts and the other ideas from this group. This is great information and I really do appreciate the help. The boat is located in Forked River, NJ.

[Daniel LeBlond]

Use some diluted liquid dish detergent to lube the cutlass bearing, just squirt it in the water channels in the rubber bearing till everything is slippery and you feel very little friction turning the shaft by hand then you can run the gears for a brief time without damaging the bearing.

[Daniel LeBlond]

Usually just shakes harder, I think the single blade out creates enough flow to prevent the other from opening. The Market prop always opens up when there is no forward motion. When you need to engage the transmission while under way is when the problem occurs. Folding prop will improve your sailing speed by 1/2 knot or more as on a P-323.

[George Nill]

Eric,

  Did you find and resolve the issue?  If so what did you do?  

  I have a Pearson 28-2 that does the exact same thing with a fixed 2 blade prop, a PSS and a 1yr old cutlass bearing.  I can start it up, reverse out of my slip, keep it in drive for 20min or an hour without any issues, very smooth.  Before sailing, I would turn off the engine, put the trans in neutral.  When I would start the engine and put the trans in the forward gear, I'll often get that violent vibration.

[Dave Cole]

I don't think you want your prop spinning while sailing?   Why don't you keep it in gear?

Dave 10m #26

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[George Nill]

I actually had to look back at some sailing pictures to make sure I did put it in gear.

  

I would put it in neutral, turn off the engine, put it in reverse, sail, back to neutral before starting.  

On Wednesday, December 6, 2017 at 11:18:36 AM UTC-6, Dave C. wrote:

I don't think you want your prop spinning while sailing?   Why don't you keep it in gear?

Dave 10m #26

On Dec 6, 2017 11:53 AM, "George Nill" <geo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Eric,

  Did you find and resolve the issue?  If so what did you do?  

  I have a Pearson 28-2 that does the exact same thing with a fixed 2 blade prop, a PSS and a 1yr old cutlass bearing.  I can start it up, reverse out of my slip, keep it in drive for 20min or an hour without any issues, very smooth.  Before sailing, I would turn off the engine, put the trans in neutral.  When I would start the engine and put the trans in the forward gear, I'll often get that violent vibration.

On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 3:18:02 PM UTC-6, eba...@gmail.com wrote:

I have a 1986 Pearson 28-2, with a Yanmar 2gm20f. When I back out of the slip and start to motor forward, everything is smooth, without any vibrations. After a day of sailing and then starting the engine, I get a loud vibration that shakes the boat and sounds like banging below. I have taken it out of gear, put it in reverse for a couple seconds and back to forward. A couple of times this has fixed the vibration. Other times, that does nothing. Any ideas of what I could look into. The boat in on the hard for the winter.

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[ebard14]

George, I replaced the cutlass bearing which seemed to reduce the vibration but did not stop it completely. I ended up selling the boat and I'm looking for a larger boat now. Good luck. Eric

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[Michael Cyr]

some yanmar/gearbox combinations forbid leaving the transmission in forward gear while sailing.  It should be either in neutral or reverse.  This according to my Hirth transmission manual for my 3gm30f.

MikeInMaine

On Wednesday, December 6, 2017 at 12:18:36 PM UTC-5, Dave C. wrote:

I don't think you want your prop spinning while sailing?   Why don't you keep it in gear?

Dave 10m #26

On Dec 6, 2017 11:53 AM, "George Nill" <geo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Eric,

  Did you find and resolve the issue?  If so what did you do?  

  I have a Pearson 28-2 that does the exact same thing with a fixed 2 blade prop, a PSS and a 1yr old cutlass bearing.  I can start it up, reverse out of my slip, keep it in drive for 20min or an hour without any issues, very smooth.  Before sailing, I would turn off the engine, put the trans in neutral.  When I would start the engine and put the trans in the forward gear, I'll often get that violent vibration.

On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 3:18:02 PM UTC-6, eba...@gmail.com wrote:

I have a 1986 Pearson 28-2, with a Yanmar 2gm20f. When I back out of the slip and start to motor forward, everything is smooth, without any vibrations. After a day of sailing and then starting the engine, I get a loud vibration that shakes the boat and sounds like banging below. I have taken it out of gear, put it in reverse for a couple seconds and back to forward. A couple of times this has fixed the vibration. Other times, that does nothing. Any ideas of what I could look into. The boat in on the hard for the winter.

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[George DuBose]

Skylark always sails with the Yanmar's transmission in reverse. She has a two blade Flex-o-fold that will spin the prop shaft when in neutral or forward gear.

George

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