Raymarine ST4000 (not 'Plus') Autohelm - Dead?

[Chris Lucas]

Looks as though my aging ST4000 Wheel Pilot has expired but looking for any ideas or insights to raise it from the dead.  Whether in Standby or  in Auto mode, the display is indicating a heading of 065 degrees (with a flashing 'C' if in Standby or 'A' if in Auto mode).  I have verified all connections and have tested the fluxgate compass by disconnecting it from the control head and measuring resistance per Raymarine's suggestion -- all values are within 1 ohm tolerance of the target range, so I am surmising that the fluxgate is fine.  Make sense?  I also checked the display while disconnecting one of the compass leads at a time -- thinking here was that the display should go blank if I disconnect any one wire, but if the display still displayed 065 degrees, it might indicate corrosion or a faulty connection.  I was hopeful that some delicate sanding of the connector on the control head might correct the issue.  Unfortunately, removing any individual wire did not blank out the display as I expected it would (???).  

From Standby, hitting Auto and then +/- 10 will update the heading on the display and start turning the wheel, except that when tested on the water, the heading never reaches the new heading, so the boat just keeps tuning.   Great for very, very short daysails (mind yer head!) :)

I am surmising that the issue is within the control head but nothing here appears to be user service-able.  I've tried disconnecting the drive to eliminate any issue there -- as expected, no impact (I'm reaching at this point).  There doesn't appear to be a hard reset and I suspect its reached end-of-life.  Any thoughts or suggestions?  Anybody have an ST4000 control head sitting in their basement?  I look at this as a nice-to-have and not a mandatory piece of gear -- can't really justify the coin on a new autopilot.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or suggestions.

Chris

[Dave Cole]

Have someone replace all the electrolytic capacitors in the control box.  They age and start leaking (electrically).

Dave

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[Bob Maxwell]

Raymarine will service older hardware.  They looked at a display I was having trouble with.  Given it's a boat, it isn't cheap, but it's typically a lot less than a new whatever.

Bob

[Dave Cole]

Have someone replace all the electrolytic capacitors in the control box.  As they age they begin to leak (electrically) and will cause malfunctions.

Transistors and ICs don't have such failure mechanisms.   However failing electrolytics can create situations which damage the transistors and ICs.

Electrolytics are frequently used in the power supply section of electronic devices.   

You can sometimes spot failed capacitors by looking for bulging capacitors.   Sometimes they even break open and ooze.

Electrolytics used at high voltages oftentimes pop like firecrackers when they fail.  

Electrolytics are polarized, so if you replace them make sure you pay attention to the plus and minus pins or leads.

Dave

On Feb 22, 2017 3:52 PM, "Chris Lucas" <hhccom...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Jeff Griglack]

I was thinking the same thing as Bob.  At the very least, talk with Raymarine and see what they have to say.

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[Chris Lucas]

Yeah -- I've reached out to Raymarine.  Still looking for a 'silver bullet' fix. 

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[Chris Lucas]

Thanks, Dave.  I haven't opened the control head up apart from verifying the connections at the back.  If Raymarine doesn't offer a no-brainer fixed-price swap/repair, I may go this route.  What you've described is a little beyond my skills (perhaps -- want to take a look first), but I have friends who I can bribe with some liquid bread :)   

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[Bill Robart]

Sounds to me like the compass is not getting a signal to the control head. Clean all of the plugs between the two and see if that helps.

When you tell the unit to turn +10 it starts but is endlessly looking for the signal that the +10 turn has been completed - no data from compass seems to allow the endless turn. 065 could be a start point when the system initializes or perhaps the last heading that was used when the unit still worked.

If messing with the wiring doesn't so anything I pack up the compass and control head and ship it Raymarine for repair. They'll likely charge fee to trouble shoot and then call you before doing any significant repair.

Bill 

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[Peter Ogilvie]

Don't think you'll get any help from Raymarine.  They apparently are giving the finger to supporting old technology even when the technology is only months old.  

Seem to remember someone fixing the 4000 control heads by replacing a few components.  A Google search may turn up a source for repair.  Don't know about you, but fixing electronics beyond screwing in a new bulb is way beyond my capability.

 

Aloha
Peter Ogilvie
'Ae'a, Pearson 35 #108

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[Chris Lucas]

You bring up an interesting point, Bill... The compass tested successfully as working (using Raymarine's diagnostic test), but it's possible it's not connecting to the control head at all (disconnecting one wire at a time still displayed the 065 degree bearing).  Of course, easy way to tell is disconnecting the compass altogether and see if it's still displaying 065 degrees.  Seems unlikely as all other connections are working -- power, drive, seatalk connection to wired remote...  Cleaning the the connections is worth a shot -- my assumption was that if I pulled a wire it would throw an error or be blank -- didn't consider the possibility of displaying a 'cached' value.  Hmm. 

Will see what Raymarine says (low expectations) but will also try removing the compass from the equation and cleaning contacts before opening her up to look for swollen, oozing capacitors :)

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[Chris Lucas]

A little more testing on Saturday...  yup!  Compass fully disconnected and control head displays 065 degrees.  Raymarine responded to my support request in a one sentence email - "good afternoon we no longer support that device" All lower case, no punctuation. A D- in my book, but only because you didn't ignore me entirely.  While my fluxgate compass tested as functioning using RM's diagnostics, I'm going to procure another compass for testing before considering replacement of the control head.

[Dave Cole]

Do you have a manual for that unit?
065 may be a diagnostic code.

Dave
T30C et al.

[HHC Commodore]

Thanks, Dave.  Have the manual -- wish it were a diagnostic code, but no such luck :)

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[Bill Robart]

Chris,

That sure is a disappointing response for a major maker of electronics. I had a similar response from Pella Windows on getting parts for one of their "old" products. They sell you a "top quality" and service you with lousy after purchase support. I understand that the logistics for keeping a supply of service parts but for the premium you pay for the product you sure have the expectation of a long and happy relationship. I guess we have to accept that everything we buy is a disposable rather than a lifetime product.

I wonder if Garmin has the same policies?????

Bill

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[Bob Maxwell]

I was at the Raymarine facility in NH some months ago to have a display checked out (circa 2007).  They were willing to work on that, but I was interested most of the displays in the lobby were for FLIR.  There was little to indicate I was in a Raymarine facility.  If you go on their website, there are also a lot of links that take you quickly to FLIR.

The Raymarine brand may be getting pushed aside in favor of FLIR.  Purely speculating, that may also impact their interest in supporting older Raymarine products.

Bob

[Peter Ogilvie]

That Raymarine wasn't going to help was a foregone conclusion.  They haven't fixed the 4000 or 4000 plus control head for going on 7 years.  That was long before FLIR bought them.  Not supporting some of their older products is nothing new to Raymarine.

Believe the compass and wheel drive may still be compatible with newer Raymarine autopilots.  If you can get the X5 or later control module and whatever control display that works with it on Ebay or Craig's List, it might make for a less time consuming and cheaper replacement.  I piecemealed the upgrade on my boat when I went from the 4000 to the X5.  Actually it's been a number of years since I did it so hope my memory hasn't failed me as I think the 4000 had a separate compass that I didn't change, just added the later control module and head.

Aloha
Peter Ogilvie
'Ae'a, Pearson 35 #108

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[Chris Lucas]

Raymarine blew the opportunity to upsell me on a newer model or even direct me to information online about other models I might want to consider.  Garmin will give you the opportunity to trade up and give you credit towards the purchase of a newer model (at least for some products).  That's smart, costs nothing and gets them new business when that customer goes online and says, "hey, look what Garmin did for me!"  Garmin did that for me with a Garmin Forerunner GPS/Heart Rate Monitor -- don't know about marine instruments...

 

I don't expect Raymarine or anybody else to support older products forever, but they blew it on the support front and I'm not likely to buy again.  Of course, I still have Raymarine speed, wind and depth instruments.  Don't want to get anyone in trouble, but I bet a more senior level Support person might be interested in knowing...

[Dave Cole]

Raymarine lost me as a customer years ago when they went from Raytheon
to Raymarine. I had a Raytheon fish finder that I bought for about
$350 and one month after the warranty expired it died. In the
meantime Raytheon became Raymarine. Raymarine had no interest in
even attempting a repair on the 13 month old fishfinder. So I threw
it in the trash and decided that I would avoid Raymarine from that
point forward. I've never regretted that decision.

Dave

[George DuBose]

While everyone is dishing Raymarine, I have only good things to report.
Even after FLIR bought them out, I still got good repairs when I needed
them and they even replaced the whole autopilot computer unit when it
was damaged by one of their authorized repairmen. ...and it was out of
warranty.

I had trouble with my Raymarine VHF, the LifeTag system, but that's
about it. The repairs were effective.

Their weather receiver that puts a graphic overlay on one's charts is
awesome and it drives me nuts that the Europeans won't develop something
like that. I know that weather graphics are available with shortwave and
smartphone, but I have neither and am often far enough offshore that I
am out of cell phone range.

Generally, they seem to be pretty much on the cutting edge of marine
technology.

I do know that one of their top servicemen in the UK went over to
Furuno, because of FLIR's corporate structure.

I wondered how FLIR bought Raymarine, until I learned that FLIR was
supplying the US military with infrared night vision technology.

FLIR must be swimming in dough...

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[Dave Cole]

The sailboat autopilot marketplace is quite small and fragmented between
tiller pilots, wheel pilots, below decks units, and wind vanes.
Autopilots are really over priced considering what you get. But I think
that is due to the low volume.

Raymarine is not going to show substantial growth with autopilot sales. It
just isn't going to happen.
On top of that new boat sales are still quite slow. Repairing years old
autopilots is counter productive to new autopilot sales... so why should
they help?

Raytheon was huge in my town and they had very large military contracts for
years employing thousands of people. I wasn't shocked when they spun off
the marine stuff to Raymarine as it was basically sales noise compared with
their military contracts.

Flir is still relatively new and the markup on products like that is huge...
add in military contracts and you can bet that Raymarine is once again sales
noise compared to what Flir is raking in.
That will not bode well for customer service... but like I said, been
there, done that.

Once Flir gets what they want out of Raymarine, chances are that they will
once again be kicked to the curb and picked up by some other company.

George... >>>I had trouble with my Raymarine VHF, the LifeTag system, but
that's about it. <<
I wouldn't say that is a great record.

Dave