More questions

[Heine De Villiers]

Dear all

How big a deal is a police clearance certificate these days when going into and also driving through Zim.  We picked up quite a bit of grief both at Vic Falls (coming back from Zambia)  last April and also at Pandametenga going into Bots.  I told them to p1ss off as it was a requirement for leaving SA only, but I would prefer to not have to do that every time  we get to a roadblock etc.

Also how big a deal is it to get one

Thanks
Heine

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[ca...@matool.co.za]

It is a big deal to get one. Ïts not a requirement to have one form sa to Zim and back.

Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

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From: Heine De Villiers <hdv...@gmail.com>

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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 21:11:10 +0200

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Subject: [Overland] More questions

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[Andries (A.) Piek]

Heine,

The funny thing is that last time I went to Zim the SA police did not accept the clearance I got before leaving home and nobody in Zim or Bots asked for it.

I will however continue to get one whenever I go across the border just for in case.

 

In our local town it is easy and quick to get one - max 30min.  In the large cities it is probably a different story, but I can't really say.

 

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[Geoff Hill]

Heine I see you are on the Land Cruiser forum.

 

There was a thread there a while back on getting a police clearance i.e. what is required , where to go and so forth. Do a search there.

 

Geoff

 

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[Hennie Rautenbach]

Not required...

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[Mike #1]

 

Coming into Rhodesia thru Tete corridor in 2010 a ripoff policeman held us up by wanting a vehicle clearance cert.

I told him we needed his name and details because no-one in SA knew of this new policy and they needed to be informed.

After wasting our time for ±2 hours, (we made coffee, sat about on chairs and generally got comfortable) and seeing that we were not going to pay, he let us go.

Point is, this is IMHO a ripoff tool, which is sometimes used, so if EVER I return to Rhodesia (unlikely), I will have one with me. They are not difficult to get – just phone and check when is their quiet time.

MikE

PS I'll call it Rhodesia, they can call it want they wish.

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[Hennie Rautenbach]

Where is your local town ?

[Heine De Villiers]

Yup - that's what I'm trying to avoid

[Andries (A.) Piek]

Vereeniging. (I'm actually in Meyerton but V-town is 15km away) Got clearance certificates 3 times in the past 2.5 years, never took longer than half an hour.  Wait about 10min in the queue, then 15 to 20 min for them to check the vehicle and their system.

 

Moving out of the city was one of the best things I ever did :-)

[Johan Havenga]

Howzit neighbour!

Heidelberg greetings!

Johan

Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

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From: "Andries (A.) Piek" <andri...@gmail.com>

Sender: overlan...@googlegroups.com

Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 22:42:51 +0200

To: overland-forum<overlan...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: overlan...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [Overland] More questions

[Andries (A.) Piek]

Yello Johan,

 

Jip, maybe we should get our own "boom" here somewhere in the south for a meet and greet.

[Sats]

Just time consuming. 

Go to Traffic to get a paper requesting to get clearance done. 

Go to assigned cop place with money and everything in triplicate. 

Wait in line

Wait in line

Wait in line

Wait in line

Wait in line 

Dude checks

Wait in another line

Wait in another line

Wait in another line

Get paper stamped. 

Then when you renew license take this paper with otherwise no renew. 

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[Michael Spencer-Wilson]

Whilst on the subject: Do these clearances have expiry dates? I suppose not, because I've been using the same black and white copy for many crossing.

One doesn't want to get to a stage having to renew every time a trip is undertaken.

[Francois Visagie]

They’re required when a) you’re entering a country via an intermediate country (e.g. SA visitor entering Zim from Bots) AND b) the border post doesn’t have a computer link-up to the Interpol or something database. Then they are entitled to demand that paper. The only two posts where I’ve encountered this are Chirundu and Kariba, but I haven’t been to some of the other popular ones like Pandamatenga.

 

It’s uncomplicated to get the PCC, but queues at the vehicle inspection department can be long. You collect an application form from your local municipal licensing authority which you then take with the vehicle to the vehicle inspection department. When I applied for a new one early December, I was told that I needed to microDot my ’97 Defender first. New requirement, the shop conveniently across the street did it for the princely sum of R450.

 

Afterwards you’re supposed to return the PCC to the municipal licensing authority, otherwise they won’t issue the next licence renewal. The PCC is valid for 3 months IIRC.

 

Cheers,

Francois

 

Francois Visagie

 

 

T: +27 (83) 326-4358

F: +27 (86) 511-3490

E: francois...@gmail.com

 

 

From: overlan...@googlegroups.com [mailto:overlan...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Heine De Villiers
Sent: 11 February 2014 21:11
To: Overland Forum
Subject: [Overland] More questions

 

Dear all

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[Nico Roets]

Francois

 

Its the first time I hear of these requirements. I always thought that the only thing that official needs to be concerned with is the temporary import permit issued by the customs department.

 

I have only once seen a blank version of a PC and that only dealt with situations where the vehicle detail have changed or where a vehicle is intended to be permanently exported from SA.

 

Does anyone have a copy of the document?

--

Regards,
Nico Roets
Find me on Flicr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nico_roets/sets/

[Peter Levey]

Yes, I'd like to see that so I can be better prepared.  In all my travels I've never been asked for one.

Peter Levey
http://www.flickr.com/photos/leveypa/

[Jean Struweg]

Maybe a rookie question, but what is the difference between a PC and a carnet?

Cheers

[Eben Henning]

PCC only required when you have done an engine change or the vehicle has not been registered on the system or the VIN number on the paperwork is only partial (not all 17 digits present)

 

It is a pre registration requirement which is why you hand it in at the RTI and only they can give you the RPC doc to take to the SAPS vehicle unit.

 

An original registration doc in your name implies that the vehicle has been cleared on the system.  No use in having both as they prove the same thing !?

 

EbenH.

[Nico Roets]

Jean a carnet is a form of temporary import/export permit. PCC is purely to prove that you are the owner of the vehicle and that the details appearing on the registration certificate are correct.

[Jean Struweg]

Thanks Nico

Cheers

[Sats]

You sure about A?

Entered Nam from Bots and vice versa many times and never got asked for it? Moz from Zim as well. Zambia via Zim too.  Only ever got asked for PCC going into Angola. 

[Nico Roets]

It seems as if the Zimbos are trying their luck at some of the smaller border posts. The police official at the Nyamapanda border tried his luck when we wanted to leave Zim into Moz (entered Zim at BB)

[Fernihough]

So PCC is a certificate to prove that another certificate is valid. <SIGH>

 

From: overlan...@googlegroups.com [mailto:overlan...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nico Roets
Sent: 12 February 2014 13:22
To: overlan...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Overland] More questions

 

Jean a carnet is a form of temporary import/export permit. PCC is purely to prove that you are the owner of the vehicle and that the details appearing on the registration certificate are correct.

[Francois Visagie]

From: overlan...@googlegroups.com [mailto:overlan...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Eben Henning
Sent: 12 February 2014 13:11

To: overlan...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Overland] More questions

 

PCC only required when you have done an engine change or the vehicle has not been registered on the system or the VIN number on the paperwork is only partial (not all 17 digits present)

 

It is a pre registration requirement which is why you hand it in at the RTI and only they can give you the RPC doc to take to the SAPS vehicle unit.

 

An original registration doc in your name implies that the vehicle has been cleared on the system.  No use in having both as they prove the same thing !?

 

[FV] In all cases where I tried that reasoning with the registration doc in hand the border police insisted on the PCC “to prove that the vehicle hasn’t been stolen”. It’s perhaps one of those illogical bureaucratic rights they have and on which they insist when they think there’s opportunity.

[Fanie du Plessis]

I have never ever in all my travels had a clearance certificate with me neither were I asked for one. Vehicle registration and licence was always sufficient.

[Mike #1]

Wow! This is the first I know of this.

Anyway, I guess you just can't have too much paperwork for africa.

 

Am thinking of making my own certificates/papers up for borderpost-paperwork junkies/crooked policemen (5 or 6 different ones), and printing them and taking them along (e.g.  the Republic of Hout Bay passports – which gained someone entry to Canada a few years ago).

 

Anyway it's not too difficult to get a PCS, so maybe this becomes part of my regular pile.

MikE

 

From: overlan...@googlegroups.com [mailto:overlan...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Francois Visagie
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 12:18 PM
To: overlan...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Overland] More questions

 

They’re required when a) you’re entering a country via an intermediate country (e.g. SA visitor entering Zim from Bots) AND b) the border post doesn’t have a computer link-up to the Interpol or something database. Then they are entitled to demand that paper. The only two posts where I’ve encountered this are Chirundu and Kariba, but I haven’t been to some of the other popular ones like Pandamatenga.

[Mike #1]

Hi Eben, I disagree. Law has nothing to do with it.

A PCC is only  required whenever someone asks for it.

MikE

 

From: overlan...@googlegroups.com [mailto:overlan...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Eben Henning
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 1:11 PM
To: overlan...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Overland] More questions

 

PCC only required when you have done an engine change or the vehicle has not been registered on the system or the VIN number on the paperwork is only partial (not all 17 digits present)

[ashie...@gmail.com]

With you on this MikE. Did the micro dot thing and all. All I need to do is keep abreast of new requirements and old ones changing! Then I give them what they want! That way no trip is ruined before its even started!!
Cheers
Ash ;)

Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom

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From: "Mike #1" <mi...@4x4store.co.za>

Sender: overlan...@googlegroups.com

Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 17:03:38 +0200

To: <overlan...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: overlan...@googlegroups.com

[Don Jolley]

I got a PCC in Durban in July 2013.
Took 45 mins but it was just the chatting to the guy as he tried to find the engine number on my defender td5. Which he never found.
But took the number from next to the drivers seat.
I didn't need to micro dot.
I never needed while on my trip but did not got it Zim.
As said, rather have it and not have the trip spoilt.
Cheers
Don

[Chris Visagie]

Hein, we had lots of problems last year June on the Zim side at Kariba enroute to Zam. We had police clearances but not the correct one from the traffic dept. one guy lost his cool which made it even worse. We had no issues at any of the other boarder posts and was not even asked for it.

[Paul Venter]

Has anyone ever had issues related to a pcc in a country other than Zim?

[Sats]

Nam to Angola

Angola to Nam

Both wanted the original and both wanted to keep it...and traffic Verkeer also wanted the original on license renewal. All were satisfied compliments of Canon.

On 12 Feb 2014, at 19:17, Paul Venter <fiets...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Has anyone ever had issues related to a pcc in a country other than Zim?

[Glen Roberts]

Definitely required for Angola if you plan to enter by vehicle.  It is to prevent people crossing the border with stolen vehicles, the PCC proves that you are the legal owner of the vehicle with the VIN and Engine numbers as on the PCC.

Glen

On 12/02/2014 19:17, Paul Venter wrote:

Has anyone ever had issues related to a pcc in a country other than Zim?

[Glen Roberts]

Colour photocopies are wonderful, I always have about 10 "original" copies of all my documentation with me, including vehicle registration docs.
Glen

[Heine De Villiers]

English please beeyatch

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[mspencerwilson1]

Cleaver. ...I'm game for that option.  Just takes a few bad copies from someone in order  to blow the whistle. Then back to the drawing board. 

Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
From: Glen Roberts <glen.r...@afriweather.co.za>
Date:
To: overlan...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Overland] More questions

Colour photocopies are wonderful, I always have about 10 "original" copies of all my documentation with me, including vehicle registration docs.
Glen

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[Francois Visagie]

Just thinking aloud – along with the good “original” copies, take along some bad ones on purpose. That way the border police/verkeer/whatever can clearly distinguish between original and copy, in your case.

 

Francois Visagie

 

 

T: +27 (83) 326-4358

F: +27 (86) 511-3490

E: francois...@gmail.com

 

 

[Eric (A.H.) Sommer]

While on this subject, I carry a flashdrive with all the documents I might need, plus the adobe reader J

Encrypted of course

 

Cheers

 

 

A.H. (Eric) Sommer  | zr6...@gmail.com | +27 82 492 9272  | (Fax )+27 86 530 6642 | ZR6ETR (gTalk)

Please note that calls to my cell from “unknown” or “private numbers” are automatically blocked

 

[Mike #1]

Just make B/W copies for the 'bad' ones.

MikE

 

From: overlan...@googlegroups.com [mailto:overlan...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Francois Visagie
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 10:15 AM
To: overlan...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Overland] More questions

 

Just thinking aloud – along with the good “original” copies, take along some bad ones on purpose. That way the border police/verkeer/whatever can clearly distinguish between original and copy, in your case.

[Mike Lauterbach]

Last trip I made a few original copies which I laminated.  And then made a few black and white copies of these.  Did not need any but was prepared :)

Cheers
Mike

[Nico Roets]

I also have laminated the registration papers of my car and have a few b&w copies to wave around.

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[Michael Spencer-Wilson]

Goodness me,  the lengths we all go just to hop over . I fancy the laminated option, and of course Eric's flash drive variation too.

On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 9:11:10 PM UTC+2, Heine De Villiers wrote:

Dear all

How big a deal is a police clearance certificate these days when going into and also driving through Zim.  We picked up quite a bit of grief both at Vic Falls (coming back from Zambia)  last April and also at Pandametenga going into Bots.  I told them to p1ss off as it was a requirement for leaving SA only, but I would prefer to not have to do that every time  we get to a roadblock etc.

Also how big a deal is it to get one

Thanks
Heine