NEMA L6-30 versus NEMA 14-50 and Canadian Electrical Code

[Martin Muc]

I'm in the planning stages of putting in both the circuit panel changes, and wiring, and the EVSE.  In my case it will be outdoors, not in a garage.

I've read a number of the build guides... many of them, such as the main guide that goes with the "30 A Charge Station Combo with Enclosure" seem to steer towards the L6-30 plug...  is there a particular reason for choosing the L6-30 plug for the upstream AC connector?  Or just that it was one that met the 30 A design and was fairly common and was a locking variety?

This would suggest I should plan my circuit panel changes, breaker, conduit, wire, boxes, etc to get an L6-30 outlet near the car parking location.

In thinking of future-proofing that up-to-the-plug work, would I be fine in planning and sizing everything up to the plug location as 50 A?   (40 A continuous)

I read one of the OpenEVSE threads that the logic is the same for higher current (mwolrich showed a 75 A version) but they said the "stock" enclosure is rather tight for finding 50 A versions of everything (relays, fuses, etc), so I may not go through that section of the future-proofing for now.  But lets say my only change to the "30 A Charge Station Combo" build guide is changing the L6-30 plug to a 14-50 plug, and besides that it is basically a 30 A OpenEVSE plugged into a 50 A rated outlet that should be fine right?  (meaning the plug and everything back to the circuit panel done for 50 A).

Or comparing the 50 A with both alternatives for 30 A... i.e. comparing 14-50 versus L6-30 versus 14-30... Is one of these three more recommended or provides easier install (conduit, boxes, etc) options with latest electrical code?  particularly in an outdoor scenario?  I mean obviously the required wire gauge is higher for 50 A of current but besides that, is the electrical inspector going to expect significant differences in conduit, boxes, locations, etc between these three options?  I'm speaking Canadian Electrical Code if anyone from Canada is reading, (though I understand they are pretty well aligned with the US National Electrical Code.)

Thanks and Cheers.

Martin

[Nicholas Sayer]

If you want to provide a 50A circuit (which means a maximum charging current of 40A), then you must install either a NEMA 6-50 or a 14-50. If you install a 14-50, you must install a neutral wire, which means buying 4 wire cable instead of 3. EVSEs don't (generally) need or use a neutral. I would recommend a NEMA 6-50, myself. It's what I had installed.

If you want a charge current greater than 40A, then you must hard-wire your EVSE.

[Martin Muc]

Excellent, thanks for your thoughts and recommendation on the NEMA 6-50.

I'm in no way trying to dispute your second paragraph, but just curious as to the source of that?  Electrical code? Underwriters Labs? other EVSE manufacturers?  and did you mean above 40 A continuous (i.e. above 50 A breaker) it must go to hard-wired?  or did you mean over 32 A continuous (above 40 A breaker) it must be hard-wired?

Also googling a bit more I found a Honda-Leviton Q and A page (not that it necessarily applies to all EVSEs or to Canada), https://honda.leviton.com/infocenter/evse-fact-sheet, but it does speak rather generally about electrical code and says, among other things:

1. a 50 A outlet is allowed in a garage (which begs the question is a 50 A outlet allowed outdoors... that page doesn't say, RV examples certainly exist)
2. if over 60 A, it needs "a disconnect" which I suppose is a big red throw switch to cut the power
3. an EVSE (or at least they're talking about theirs) can only be mounted outdoors if it is hard-wired

So I'm not sure if point 3 is implying that theirs IS over 40 A, so for it to also be outdoors, it must be hard-wired (thus it would just be an application of your point).  Or if they mean there is some other parameter of their EVSE or other rule in the code that prevents theirs from being used outdoors unless hard-wired.

It sounds like hard-wired is actually likely to make an electrical inspector happier than a cord-and-plug setup, and since I was leaning that way anyway for other reasons, that's fine.

Anyway interesting stuff.  Thanks again for your reply.

Martin

[Nick Sayer]

On Jul 23, 2014, at 6:13 PM, Martin Muc <martin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Excellent, thanks for your thoughts and recommendation on the NEMA 6-50.

I'm in no way trying to dispute your second paragraph, but just curious as to the source of that?  Electrical code? Underwriters Labs? other EVSE manufacturers?  and did you mean above 40 A continuous (i.e. above 50 A breaker) it must go to hard-wired?  or did you mean over 32 A continuous (above 40 A breaker) it must be hard-wired?

Above a 50A breaker (40A EVSE charging current), you must go hard-wired, simply because there is no NEMA plug/receptacle combination that goes higher.

Also googling a bit more I found a Honda-Leviton Q and A page (not that it necessarily applies to all EVSEs or to Canada), https://honda.leviton.com/infocenter/evse-fact-sheet, but it does speak rather generally about electrical code and says, among other things:

1. a 50 A outlet is allowed in a garage (which begs the question is a 50 A outlet allowed outdoors... that page doesn't say, RV examples certainly exist)
2. if over 60 A, it needs "a disconnect" which I suppose is a big red throw switch to cut the power
3. an EVSE (or at least they're talking about theirs) can only be mounted outdoors if it is hard-wired

So I'm not sure if point 3 is implying that theirs IS over 40 A, so for it to also be outdoors, it must be hard-wired (thus it would just be an application of your point).  Or if they mean there is some other parameter of their EVSE or other rule in the code that prevents theirs from being used outdoors unless hard-wired.

It sounds like hard-wired is actually likely to make an electrical inspector happier than a cord-and-plug setup, and since I was leaning that way anyway for other reasons, that's fine.

Actually, I recommend a cord-and-plug setup, because then the actual EVSE isn't subject to inspection. The inspector only has purview up to the receptacle.

Anyway interesting stuff.  Thanks again for your reply.

Martin


On Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:37:31 PM UTC-4, Nicholas Sayer wrote:

If you want to provide a 50A circuit (which means a maximum charging current of 40A), then you must install either a NEMA 6-50 or a 14-50. If you install a 14-50, you must install a neutral wire, which means buying 4 wire cable instead of 3. EVSEs don't (generally) need or use a neutral. I would recommend a NEMA 6-50, myself. It's what I had installed.

If you want a charge current greater than 40A, then you must hard-wire your EVSE.

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[rsplodge]

I know this is an old thread but I'm wondering what the outcome was and have a couple of other questions:

Did you end up going with a 14-50 or 6-30 outlet?

Are 14-50 outlets allowed outside in Canada? If so, what are the requirements around them?
Any idea if a covered (but not enclosed) porch would be considered a different scenario?
I'd like to install a 14-50 outlet on my covered porch for my EVSE (which I bought on OpenEVSE and am equipping a 14-50 plug as I was told that is the most versatile if I travel with the EVSE). The 14-50 plug (not the receptacle) will be without the neutral so it can also plug into other outlets when I travel.

Thanks, ..Roger

[Nick Sayer]

I'd be quite surprised if you encountered NEMA outlets of any kind outside North America. On the other hand, most of the rest of the world has 220/230 VAC power on whatever passes for standard outlets. So it ought to be straightforward to either build an adapter or swap out the plug. 

Sent from my iPhone

[Roger Colbeck]

Nick:
I said "outside IN Canada". I meant I'm in Canada and want to put it outdoors or at least on my covered porch and I'm not sure it is allowed. Perhaps I confused you. I didn't mean outside of Canada or outside of North America.

...Roger

[Nick Sayer]

Oh.

I believe you’re allowed to use any NEMA outlet outside as long as you have a weatherproof housing around the outlet that is still weatherproof when you’ve got something plugged in. They make big, hinged plastic box things with gaskets and cord holes at the bottom for that purpose.

For the most part, at least in most of the U.S., the NEC (which I believe at the very least *informs* Canadian law and practice) stops at the outlet. The NEC talks about weatherproofing for the outlet itself, usually at a minimum dictating that the outlet be weathertight as long as nothing’s plugged into it. That works well for outlets intended for occasional use of electrical appliances, but for something you intend to leave plugged in semi-permanently, I’d definitely go for an “outlet box” that protects both the outlet and plug from weather.

The good news is that that sort of thing should be a very, very available configuration for a NEMA 14-50, as it’s frequently used for larger RVs.