Re: [phpug] starting a startup. developers needed
Berend de Boer
David> I'm trying to start a startup company, and I need
David> developers.
Hi David,
This seems like you need at least $500,000 to get started. You got
that amount of money?
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Berend de Boer
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Michael Robinson
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lenz
David
David
Brett Taylor
David
Berend de Boer
David> the developers are shares of the company. The end result
David> will be amazing. I'm sure the developers will be well off
David> financially.
I'm sure too :-)
David> Continued employment will be no problem, because this
David> website is a precursor to another website I want to
David> develop.
A big trap website entrepreneurs in NZ fall into is that they think a
web site is like a building: you build it, done.
A web site needs continual maintenance and improvements, else it will
rot very, very quickly.
If you want to build a company around a web site, you will not only
need a team to start it, you will need an even bigger team to maintain
it.
David Suk
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David
David
Michael Robinson
David Suk
If your idea is that good but you don't have capital to pay a developer, consider learning to code yourself. A skilled developer will command 50-90K in NZ, and is likely seasoned enough to know the pitfalls of working for unfunded startups.At the least, you could learn enough to get a workable prototype together, that you might then use to secure funds which you can use to hire a very skilled developer that will be able to lead your future team.
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David
rusdvl
:-)
David Suk
I have to agree with lenz here. Not the best way to recruit developers by saying company motto is fun but no pay. Medium to large projects usually take longer than a month and developers need to pay for rent etc... Without specifics and a business plan showing how, when, and how much profit you are expecting... All sounds a little bit like the following story http://www.27bslash6.com/p2p2.html
:-)
David Suk
If you're that sure in success - why don't you go to a bank and get a loan for $12k or so? In that case you'll don't need to share your company and future profits with someone else. I think it sounds reasonable.
Keri Henare
David, I'm sure if anybody wishes to take you up on the offer they can contact you directly.
Good luck with your venture.
Kind regards,
Keri Henare
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On Saturday, 20 April 2013 at 3:22 PM, David Suk wrote:
> Hey, Danny boy.
>
> I could care less. It's not like you know the plan. I have started a business and successfully sold it. I've raised funds to run a sports team. It's well organised and is still running without my presence. It's been in existence for a decade.
>
> I've read a lot of materials needed for the startup area, went to seminars, enrolled into the online courses offered by Stanford University on startups, chatted with people who have direct links with people like Marrisa Mayer, etc.
>
> I have some people in some incubators that have given me some directions. I have advisers who belong to the top 50 most influential & powerful people in NZ according to the North & South magazine, and they've known me for about a decade now. I have a retired ceo advising me as well, etc.
>
> Did create you something like a Facebook, Pinterst, Linkedin, Youtube, etc.? I don't even know who you are.
>
> If someone does something great that helps a lot of its users, small and big businesses, and helps charities, and gives value to their effort, why all the hate?
>
> Are you suffering from the tall poppy syndrome?
>
> Who are you, Danny boy?
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Daniel Weeks <dan...@dwat.co.nz (mailto:dan...@dwat.co.nz)> wrote:
> > As fun as it is ripping this guys heart to sheds, I hope he appreciates the good advice he's received to date and puts it into practice.
> >
> > I recommend searching for angel funding and approaching NZ Trade and Enterprise for a mentor. A good angel investor or mentor will provide the insider knowledge you'll need.
> >
> > Good luck, especially to anybody who takes on the project given what they've read on here. If I needed to build my portfolio in order to get a job, I'd certainly check out this opportunity. One could contribute to Open Source projects and build some strong Kudos while you're at it. Then you'd probably get a decent job which pays very well in a well funded organisation.
> >
> > Daniel
> > On 20/04/2013, at 11:33 AM, Ivan Kurnosov <zer...@gmail.com (mailto:zer...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> >
> > > If you're that sure in success - why don't you go to a bank and get a loan for $12k or so? In that case you'll don't need to share your company and future profits with someone else. I think it sounds reasonable.
> > >
> > > On Friday, April 19, 2013 3:26:40 PM UTC+12, David wrote:
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "NZ PHP Users Group" group.
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> > >
> > >
> >
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Sarah King
David Suk
--
David Suk
$100k for 2 months for 1 person?But anyway, you're currently want to share risks. What do you bring to a project? Just an idea? Ideas cost nothing. If you fail - then people because of *YOUR* mistake will lose 2 unpaid months.
vincenz2004
http://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentedwards
Contact me if you are willing to tell me your idea and I'll give you honest feedback from my experience.
Vince
On Thursday, 18 April 2013 22:06:18 UTC+12, David wrote:
Hi everyone.
My name is David.
I'm trying to start a startup company, and I need developers.
The website developers must:
-live in Auckland.
-work preferably full time but part time is ok
-must be able to develop and maintain profiles (looking at maintaining 100 million +)
-must be able to construct logical smooth system of msg.
-handle and manage heavy traffic
-ward off cyber attacks
-implement easy e-commerce
-develop analytics for our customers
-develop and execute effective display ads
-etc.
Please contact me on
B) 09 416 4756
M) 021 103 4041
Sarah King
| Sarah King
Tel: 09 815 8642 | Mobile: 0273 711 298 http://www.itamer.comhttp://www.roommatecabins.co.nz |
Contact me:
rainchx 
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vincenz2004
David Suk
Keri Henare
Vince provided you with an email address. Please continue your discussions outside of the user group.
Thanks.
Kind regards,
Keri Henare
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> Hi, Vince.
>
> Thanks for the msg.
>
> Do you live in Auckland?
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "NZ PHP Users Group" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/nzphpug/ec1y04Xm1aM/unsubscribe?hl=en.
> >
> >
>
>
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Don Gould
why?
I'm finding this interesting.
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James McGlinn
Vince provided you with an email address. Please continue your discussions outside of the user group.
Kind regards,
James McGlinn
Co-Founder & CEO |  |
Tim Jordan
Date sent: Sun, 21 Apr 2013 09:47:42 +1200
From: Keri Henare <ke...@henare.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [phpug] Re: starting a startup. developers needed
To: nzp...@googlegroups.com
Send reply to: nzp...@googlegroups.com
> Hi David,
>
> Vince provided you with an email address. Please continue your discussions
> outside of the user group. Thanks.
>
Tim Jordan
Web Designer/Developer
Tel: 04 934 9525
Mob: 021 179 7750
Email: ti...@paradise.net.nz
Skype: timj2010
David
To all the php people streaming into this post:
I apologise to anyone who took offense in the first initial post about listing just the requirements. I just wanted to be concise and my enthusiasm quickly typed and loaded up the post. Never had I envisioned the range of responses afterwards.
As I’ve been told, a lot of developers took offense in the first post and have been having a go at me. I am new to this type of community, and I have received some kind emails to me saying that they never imagined they would try to rip me apart like this, and whoever introduced me to this group should have warned me, and it was good to fend off some of these malicious attacks. I’ve also been told that from past experiences that these developers had were that they didn’t get paid or got scammed. I’m not here to do that kind of stuff. We all graduated from various universities or training facilities and had life experiences to decipher and decide if the startup is worth while or not. No one is perfect when it comes to business, and even the bigshot CEOs of fortune 500 companies had their fair share of the learning curve.
The responses range from hate, support, mentorship, keen to join venture, etc.
Our readers have been in the dark about what my startup actually is, and I would have imagine in the description of the 100m+ profiles would have raise some kind of curiosity and disbelief.
When some people started chanting money, money, money, I pray that, it isn’t the only motivational factor. Otherwise, your $50k-$90k should at least the pay the bills, keep you fed, and housed, and get you laid. I guess you can call it a job interview to see what kind of responses you would get and who not to work with. I guess you can call it a psychological evaluation of prospective team members/co-founders.
I saw a lot of the pain factors eg. Small businesses going under after 1 year and according to statistics NZ that % is around 90%. Also, small businesses do not have the war chest of big companies in their marketing and advertising budget. Also, there are a lot of websites that give absolutely no value but r____ people’s info and habits. There are more in the list, and it can go on and on.
There is one in this group that I threw some questions at him to think about in regards to my startup venture, and I think he was intrigued as to where I was coming from and where I was going with my concept. We’ve had about a 4 hour conversation, so I’m assuming that it had some kind of merit. He was kind enough to point me to some direction of where I can obtain some kind of resource, and I thank him for that.
In regards to trolls spewing hate, may I remind them that this is a public forum, and that perhaps they had some employers in mind that they wanted to work for in the future. Delete does not mean delete. That should be basic 101 since the inception of Google etc. Now they saw their personalities and probably will remember not to work with them should they apply. Yes, I know it is a 2 way street and a double edge sword by responding back to them, but forgive me, I had a Steve Jobs moment like in the infamous late night sparring with a small time reporter.
Mr Ivan Kurnosov (senior developer @ Wialus & someone who lacks social skills and etiquette that the only interaction he gets is being a troll on Saturday night as Charlie Sheen would put it) & Danny boy Weeks @dwat.co.nz. Don’t you know that I and others can Google your info?
Re: Nigerian scammer, if I was one Ivan, you’d already be naked in a compromised position, with your shame recorded on my laptop and with your finances drained from your bank account into mine and still your shame uploaded on the media outlets. Talk about Saturday night fun. Yeah, we’d make a great team you and I and scam people, the spammer & scammer from Russia and the Nigerian scammer. Just for the record in any country and in any race, you’ve got your good and bad people with a spectrum of personalities.
The Social Network Movie: Please see it if you want to be entertained and learn about startups in a digestible intro. Mark, Dustin, Andrew, Chris, & Eduardo started thefacebook without getting paid initially, and the only money available, the $20k from their CFO, Eduardo, went towards the bare essentials eg. Hardware, etc. You try to go to VC firms and other areas and demand at an earlier stage to provide funding to pay the team, and they won’t give you the money. They want to see a lean mean startup to see if you can you be a good steward with someone else’s investment money etc. Also to mitigate risk, you can have a 9 to 5 job and view this startup venture as a side project. If it works, great! If it doesn’t, you can say I still got my day job to keep me paid and laid.
I didn’t know what I wanted to do in life until the last 5 years. I like solving puzzles and using my skills to help others. I believe by establishing this startup, this is one way I can help contribute to society and the paint the world the only way I know how.
I challenge everyone, with the knowledge and skills you possess, how would you colour the world in your lifetime?
Keri Henare
I really think that this has gone far enough now.
I understand that you are passionate about your venture, but you must also understand that as developers we are constantly bombarded by "entrepreneurs" who are passionate about their venture.
Your venture is risky, all start ups are. We are real people with real lives. Some of us have children to feed and mortgages to pay. We can not risk our futures on promises of success and you should not be offended by this.
This is an informal environment so some of the feedback has been a bit blunt but many have raised completely valid questions. If it was truly your intention to enlist the support of developers you would have been better to address these questions intelligently instead of getting defensive.
As I have previously said, you have made your request for developers and you have had responses. This mailing list is a practical tool for the NZ PHP community and for this thread to continue it only clutters the list.
I must respectfully request that you let this thread go. If you have specific PHP issues that you need help with, we'll be more than happy to oblige.
We all wish you all the best with your venture.
Kind regards,
Keri Henare
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Jeremy @ Last Season
Kind Regards,
Jeremy jeremy@lastseason·co·nz |  |
mikael letang
Ivan Kurnosov <zer...@gmail.com> wrote:
Ok. You're a businessman that has businesses and experience. Why not take a loan in bank?
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Richard Lake
I usually just sit in on this group looking out for the odd nugget of wisdom from time to time, but I’m moved to respond to voice my disgust in the way someone who is looking to start up a business has been treated. Let’s be reasonable, every business that currently exists was a start up at some point.
Can’t we just congratulate the guy for giving it a go, wish him luck and if we can help with advice do it with good grace.
From: nzp...@googlegroups.com [mailto:nzp...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ivan Kurnosov
Sent: Saturday, 20 April 2013 10:00 p.m.
To: nzp...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [phpug] starting a startup. developers needed
> The banks will not lend money for risky stuff like website ventures.
Right. They don't want to lose their money. What you're trying to do - is to share your risks *for free*. As I mentioned - you would never open a cafe in that way, it won't work for internet business as well. If you don't sponsor your venture - you won't ever be successful.
> Also, my friends who work at the incubators have advised me not to pay anyone at this stage but make sure things go right and then you can apply for angel funding etc.
This made my day! You'd better had friends who work in banks, who can count money not just dream about multi-million so called startups :-D
> I lack the technical skill on the computer side, however, there are other skill that I bring to the table.
What actual skills? Please have a look at your first post. You haven't self-presented yourself and your project. But you have provided a list of "must"s. You didn't even share your name so we could google for it. You're already hiding from potential participants?
On Saturday, April 20, 2013 9:51:12 PM UTC+12, David wrote:
Do you know how the banking system works?
Do you know how the banking loans work?
Banks in the AUS/NZ are well regulated and won't just give out money like the old days in the States during the 80's and 90's.
You have to have a 9 to 5 job and earn a certain amount for you to borrow a certain amount.
Do you actually believe anyone can just walk into a bank and demand $100k to $500k????
If you are self-employed, there is a harder criteria. Even though you have revenue coming in, you have to consistently show for a long period of time to obtain a loan or even a mortgage.
Even if you have cash in the bank account, but are not running a business or working a 9 to 5 job, the banks will not give you a loan.
They have internal calculation systems.
The banks will not lend money for risky stuff like website ventures.
They are more interested in physical stuff eg. homes and other valuable commodities.
Also, my friends who work at the incubators have advised me not to pay anyone at this stage but make sure things go right and then you can apply for angel funding etc.
I'm looking and responding to many people and it seems they have absolutely no clue about how incubators, vc firms, angels, banks, accelerators work.
I highly regard developers. I see people who will join me in the venture as team members and as equals. I lack the technical skill on the computer side, however, there are other skill that I bring to the table.
It's almost 10 pm on Saturday. I'm just going to enjoy the night.
On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Ivan Kurnosov <zer...@gmail.com> wrote:
Ok. You're a businessman that has businesses and experience. Why not take a loan in bank?
If you've already had such a great experience - any bank would easily give you $100k-$200k.
If you wanted to open a cafe - that's what you would do, you wouldn't ask waiters, barmen and chief to work for several months for free. You want ask a landlord to rent a place for you for free. You want ask furniture for free. Why this case is an exclusion? Or programmers differ from waiters in some way?
On Saturday, April 20, 2013 9:31:30 PM UTC+12, David wrote:
Chris Hope
Hello David,I am PHP web Developer, having 3+ year of experience, I work Freelance PHP/Mysql Projects handle from remotly.If you need to work with me for freelance and remote work from heremail me @ this gagan...@gmail.comThanksGagan
On Thursday, 18 April 2013 15:36:18 UTC+5:30, David wrote:Hi everyone.
My name is David.
I'm trying to start a startup company, and I need developers.
The website developers must:
-live in Auckland.
-work preferably full time but part time is ok
-must be able to develop and maintain profiles (looking at maintaining 100 million +)
-must be able to construct logical smooth system of msg.
-handle and manage heavy traffic
-ward off cyber attacks
-implement easy e-commerce
-develop analytics for our customers
-develop and execute effective display ads
-etc.
Please contact me on
B) 09 416 4756
M) 021 103 4041
--
Harvey Kane
To all the php people streaming into this post:
�
I apologise to anyone who took offense in the first initial post about listing just the requirements.� I just wanted to be concise and my enthusiasm quickly typed and loaded up the post.� Never had I envisioned the range of responses afterwards.
�
As I�ve been told, a lot of developers took offense in the first post and have been having a go at me.� I am new to this type of community, and I have received some kind emails to me saying that they never imagined they would try to rip me apart like this, and whoever introduced me to this group should have warned me, and it was good to fend off some of these malicious attacks.� I�ve also been told that from past experiences that these developers had were that they didn�t get paid or got scammed.� I�m not here to do that kind of stuff.� We all graduated from various universities or training facilities and had life experiences to decipher and decide if the startup is worth while or not.� No one is perfect when it comes to business, and even the bigshot CEOs of fortune 500 companies had their fair share of the learning curve.
�
The responses range from hate, support, mentorship, keen to join venture, etc.
�
Our readers have been in the dark about what my startup actually is, and I would have imagine in the description of the 100m+ profiles would have raise some kind of curiosity and disbelief.
�
When some people started chanting money, money, money, I pray that, it isn�t the only motivational factor.� Otherwise, your $50k-$90k should at least the pay the bills, keep you fed, and housed, and get you laid.� I guess you can call it a job interview to see what kind of responses you would get and who not to work with.� I guess you can call it a psychological evaluation of prospective team members/co-founders.�
�
I saw a lot of the pain factors eg. Small businesses going under after 1 year and according to statistics NZ that % is around 90%.� Also, small businesses do not have the war chest of big companies in their marketing and advertising budget.� Also, there are a lot of websites that give absolutely no value but r____ people�s info and habits.� There are more in the list, and it can go on and on.
�
There is one in this group that I threw some questions at him to think about in regards to my startup venture, and I think he was intrigued as to where I was coming from and where I was going with my concept.� We�ve had about a 4 hour conversation, so I�m assuming that it had some kind of merit.� He was kind enough to point me to some direction of where I can obtain some kind of resource, and I thank him for that.
�
In regards to trolls spewing hate, may I remind them that this is a public forum, and that perhaps they had some employers in mind that they wanted to work for in the future.� Delete does not mean delete.� That should be basic 101 since the inception of Google etc.� �Now they saw their personalities and probably will remember not to work with them should they apply.� Yes, I know it is a 2 way street and a double edge sword by responding back to them, but forgive me, I had a Steve Jobs moment like in the infamous late night sparring with a small time reporter.
�
Mr Ivan Kurnosov (senior developer @ Wialus & someone who lacks social skills and etiquette that the only interaction he gets is being a troll on Saturday night as Charlie Sheen would put it)� & Danny boy Weeks @dwat.co.nz.� Don�t you know that I and others can Google your info?
�
Re: Nigerian scammer, if I was one Ivan, you�d already be naked in a compromised position, with your shame recorded on my laptop and with your finances drained from your bank account into mine and still your shame uploaded on the media outlets.� Talk about Saturday night fun.� Yeah, we�d make a great team you and I and scam people, the spammer & scammer from Russia and the Nigerian scammer.� Just for the record in any country and in any race, you�ve got your good and bad people with a spectrum of personalities.
�
The Social Network Movie:� Please see it if you want to be entertained and learn about startups in a digestible intro.� Mark, Dustin, Andrew, Chris, & Eduardo started thefacebook without getting paid initially, and the only money available, the $20k from their CFO, Eduardo, went towards the bare essentials eg. Hardware, etc.� You try to go to VC firms and other areas and demand at an earlier stage to provide funding to pay the team, and they won�t give you the money.� They want to see a lean mean startup to see if you can you be a good steward with someone else�s investment money etc.� Also to mitigate risk, you can have a 9 to 5 job and view this startup venture as a side project.� If it works, great!� If it doesn�t, you can say I still got my day job to keep me paid and laid.
�
I didn�t know what I wanted to do in life until the last 5 years.� I like solving puzzles and using my skills to help others.� I believe by establishing this startup, this is one way I can help contribute to society and the paint the world the only way I know how.
�
I challenge everyone, with the knowledge and skills you possess, how would you colour the world in your lifetime?
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-- Harvey Kane Phone: - Auckland: +64 9 950 4133 - Wanaka: +64 3 746 8133 - Mobile: +64 21 811 951 Email: har...@harveykane.com If you need to contact me urgently, please read my email policy www.ragepank.com/email/