Is there a Containable aether theory?

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Laurence Clark Crossen

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Oct 14, 2025, 1:44:10 PMOct 14
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If aether could be contained in a vacuum interferometer, it would explain such experiments.
It would be like the air in Galileo's ship's cabin.
Would such an aether involve turbulence?

John-Erik Persson

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Oct 14, 2025, 3:17:19 PMOct 14
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Laurence
No, not like air. Instead it would penetrate and exist inside all matter.
John-Erik


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Laurence Clark Crossen

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Oct 14, 2025, 3:51:59 PMOct 14
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No. You are presuming a conception of aether used by Michelson & Morley when I am positing a different one.

Laurence Clark Crossen

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Oct 14, 2025, 4:05:24 PMOct 14
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If an aether drag theory is reasonable, why wouldn't a containable aether theory be reasonable? 

On Tuesday, October 14, 2025 at 12:17:19 PM UTC-7 joer...@gmail.com wrote:

Laurence Clark Crossen

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Oct 14, 2025, 4:58:01 PMOct 14
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It can penetrate matter inefficiently, like the CMBR, or it may not be possible to pump it out of vacuum interferometers.
In any case, light certainly is not affected by gravity.

On Tuesday, October 14, 2025 at 12:17:19 PM UTC-7 joer...@gmail.com wrote:

John-Erik Persson

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Oct 14, 2025, 6:32:48 PMOct 14
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  • Gravity is emergent
  • So, gravity exists inside matter
  • So, ether exists inside matter
  • Matter absorbs ether particles
  • The number of particles leaving a body is reduced by absorption
  • So, a net ether wind in negative radial direction is caused
  • This radial ether wind is the cause of gravity
  • Gravity emerges inside matter
  • No gravitational attraction
John-Eik


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Laurence Clark Crossen

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Oct 14, 2025, 11:41:08 PMOct 14
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I don't buy the aether gravity theory, but what speed is your gravity?

John-Erik Persson

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Oct 15, 2025, 11:46:32 AMOct 15
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Laurence
Speed of gravity?
I said gravity is emergent
John-Erik


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Laurence Clark Crossen

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Oct 15, 2025, 12:15:19 PMOct 15
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John-Erik

Have you never heard of the speed of gravity? Relativity says it's c, and Newton treats it as infinite.
From: npa-rel...@googlegroups.com <npa-rel...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of John-Erik Persson <joer...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2025 8:46 AM
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Subject: Re: [npa-relativity] Is there a Containable aether theory?
 
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John-Erik Persson

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Oct 15, 2025, 12:21:45 PMOct 15
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Laurence
Emergent speed. So, not moving
Perhaps changes in gravity move with the speed c 
Infinite speed is absurd
John-Erik


Laurence Clark Crossen

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Oct 15, 2025, 12:32:18 PMOct 15
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John-Erik,

The idea of infinite speed really boils down to the fact that speed is not accounted for in Newton's equation F MmG/r^2, so that if it is a force, the speed would have to be practically infinite to disregard it. 

I regard it as a force involving angular momentum, so its speed must be much faster than light but not infinite. Newton did not think it was infinite. He and LaPlace thought it must be so fast as to be negligible, except LaPlace thought a less-than-infinite speed would account for Mercury's anomalous perihelion advance. 

Laurence
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2025 9:21 AM

John-Erik Persson

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Oct 15, 2025, 1:54:37 PMOct 15
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Laurence
The ether consists of particles moving in all directions even inside matter. Spherical symmetry means no gravity and asymmetry means that a force of gravity emerges inside matter. Emergence means that gravity does not move. Nevertheless changes in gravity as asymmetries in the ether can move with light speed.
Matter can interact with the ether by absorbing ether particles
Gravity does not move between two bodies
John-Erik




Laurence Clark Crossen

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Oct 15, 2025, 4:13:28 PMOct 15
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John-Erik

Tom Van Flandern's articles show that light speed for gravity does not work. Angular momentum would cause the Earth to recede to twice its current distance in 1,200 years. Your ether gravity theory is susceptible to the same problem.

Laurence
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2025 10:54 AM

Jerry Harvey

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Oct 15, 2025, 5:36:03 PMOct 15
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Is the idea that gravity is "instantaneous" the same meaning as saying it is "infinite"?  I think it's possible that the attraction of objects occurs instantaneously.  

I'm highly skeptical of the idea that there is an aether that consists of miniscule particles that travel into all directions.  I don't see how that could cause gravity. 

John-Erik Persson

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Oct 15, 2025, 6:31:32 PMOct 15
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Laurence
van Flandern was right
Gravity does not move. Zero speed. Not moving.
As I said. Read it again. Zero speed means no aberration. Gravity emerges inside matter due to the ether.No aberration due to emergence does not exclude that a hypothetical change of gravity can move with light speed.
John-Erik


Laurence Clark Crossen

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Oct 16, 2025, 5:25:14 PMOct 16
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John-Erik

"8.1. The Validity of Force-Particle Duality
The genesis of the force-particle duality or the particles
creating the forces of nature, electromagnetic force, weak
force, strong force, and gravity goes back to the photons. It all
started with the misconceived foundation of the mysterious
photons, and the idea that the electromagnetic force is created
by exchanging the quantum particles or photons.
Now, we know that there are no quantum light particles or
photons. So, electromagnetic force can’t be a result of the
exchange of the non-existent photons. The idea, that the
electromagnetic force is a result of the exchange of photon, is
no longer true. Then, what about the whole notion of particles
creating forces of nature; this is questionable, no longer a
general statement that applies to all the forces of nature. Can
the each force-particle duality hold for specific forces on their
own merits even when the electromagnetic force-photon
duality no longer presents or holds? One thing is certain; there
are no mass-less particles and hence gravity can’t be a result of
a particle." - "The Light in a New Light: Always a Wave, Never a Particle" Bandula Dahanayake

Laurence


Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2025 3:31 PM

John-Erik Persson

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Oct 16, 2025, 6:18:44 PMOct 16
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Laurence
Yes, I agree. No light particles and no duality in light. Niels Bohr was wrong.
However, this does not exclude the possibility that we can have ether particles, if they are small and not detectable individually. So, ether can be particles anyhow. So, by absorbing ether particles matter can cause gravity. Absorption in body A creates a radial ether wind around A and an asymmetry in body B and thereby creates a force in B directed towards A. The same in the opposite direction.
  • Light is waves
  • Ether is particles
John-Erik



Laurence Clark Crossen

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Oct 16, 2025, 6:48:59 PMOct 16
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John-Erik

For me the crucial disproof of ether gravity is the absence of an ether wind in a vacuum interferometer.
There is no such thing as time dilation and length contraction.

Laurence
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2025 3:18 PM

John-Erik Persson

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Oct 16, 2025, 8:25:40 PMOct 16
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Laurence
The ether wind is not absent. Earth' rotation gives 0.46 km/s ether wind horizontally at the Equator. Earth' absorption of ether particles gives -11.2 km/s ether wind vertically. Escape velocity and cause of gravity. This was not discovered since they wanted to avoid influence from gravity. They did not see that the ether wind was gravity.
Yes, time dilation is absurd.
No, Michelson's tests prove that length contraction is equal to the contraction of 2-way light speed or 2 times the Lorentz-Fitzgerald contraction, since there is no effect in the transverse arm in MMX according to the wave model.
John-Erik


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