I was robbed!!!
George Jackson
Does anyone remember this topic?
https://groups.google.com/g/north-east-makers/c/_GsnZpyVi4M/m/FveeqalqwyoJ
I know it was a long time ago now. But the
outcome of starting this thread was that one guy did contact me independently
of this discussion and said that he was a developer and that he would be happy
to meet and chat with me and to listen and see if there was any way he could
help.
So that's what I did at that time. We met at the library in Newcastle and I
brought a confidentiality agreement which we both signed. However now that it's
been so long since this conversation took place, I can reveal what the 'big
idea' then was. In essence, as a regular patron of Wetherspoon at that time, I
often felt frustrated by waiting in the large queues that used to be a frequent
feature of waiting at the bar to place a food order then. Then one day, after a
particularly frustrating time, I had a bit of a 'eureka!' moment when the
thought popped into my head, which was "wouldn't it be great if I just had
an app on my phone and could order food direct to my table, without having to
stand in the queue?"
This was one of about 3 or so different ideas I had to pitch at that time. So
when we met, I laid out my various ideas and pitched them as best I could.
However, unfortunately at that time, the person in question I met seemed very
unimpressed with all of my ideas, and more or less we ended my pitch by him
just looking very sceptical and shaking his head. As we walked down the stairs
to leave, my chief thought at that time (as well as feeling a little stupid),
was, "well, I don't think I'm ever going to see you again!". So we
left and my guess seemed to be right. He didn't contact me again, and I more or
less forgot about it for the next two years.
So then, as I said, we fast-forward to around 2017-18 - and one day on one of
my then still semiregular visits to my local Wetherspoon, you can imagine my
considerable surprise, when I noticed on my table, there was an ad placed there
advertising Wetherspoon's new table service app! (As I understand it,
Wetherspoon's were the first company in the UK to offer such a service, so
given the probable development time of around 2 years for such an app, this
seemed at best a rather surprising coincidence.) The app pretty much works
exactly the way I envisaged it. The app really came into its own during covid,
when there was a big push to minimise personal interactions. Wetherspoons
really went for broke then and pushed the app really quite hard.
I’m not here to stake a claim – and of course coincidences happen, but for
something that was very non-obvious at the time, it would be a heck of a coincidence!
So if this person does still frequent this forum, could you please hit me up
and let me know what happened? However, this may end up being a case of there
being no point crying over spilt milk and to that end, having perhaps (I hope)
to some degree having at least been vindicated that the idea was solid, I’m now
back to say that this is not the only good idea I have ever had (or currently
have). There are a few new ideas that I would like to explore, with potentially
far greater potential, that I would like to explore with anyone who might be
willing to do so. You don’t need to be a developer (although I certainly do
need developers), you just need to be someone with a background and/or a
passion for tech, and some means or other to contribute to the development
process.
Of course, this time around, there would be more of a focus on creating and
maintaining the legalities of the process, including confidentiality. I might
even go so far to say if the person I spoke to then still frequents this forum,
that he needn’t worry too much and if he might be willing to assist this time
around again, all would be forgiven, although this time around I would of
course aim to run a much tighter ship.
I apologise in advance to the forum moderators, if they might think my post is
in any way inappropriate. But I feel I might have few other choices, than to perhaps
give my original plan a go again, but with a new and fresh idea. Software development is not a simple or an
easy process. I do have some background as a project manager in this regard.
(But not as a developer.) One can have a million great ideas, but without
anyone else to invest their time, their energy and perhaps their money in
bringing an idea to fruition, it may remain unrealised indefinitely. If anyone
does want to talk, please PM me (or if that isn’t possible on this forum), you
can write to me at jebus...@gmail.com. Thanks so much in advance to anyone
who may be up for a very interesting adventure!
George
PS
I'm aware that my post then references a different idea, however the Wetherspoons app idea was just one of about 3 or 4 ideas I pitched at that time. I'm also very sorry for the somewhat 'clickbait' title, but I fear that if I didn't do this, my post might be overlooked.
Glen Beestone
so if your question is, is it a big coincidence wetherspoons just happened to make an app that you had thought of. then my answer would be no, it's not even a small co-incidence. it was all but inevitable it would happen regardless of you ( or a million others) thinking "if only I could order my beer/food through an app"
or get a fast food delivered (just eat, deliveroo etc)
or order a taxi without talk to someone on the phone (and track it!)
or get real time bus updates, plan routes and buy bus tickets.
or buy train tickets from multiple providers to find the cheapest routes.
*same for ferries
*same for flights
now if you'd said shortly after meeting this person and explaining your five ideas EVERY SINGLE one of them came to fruition exactly as you had described now that would either be a very big coincidence... or foul play..(unless they were also something that was brewing anyway in the industry,)
There's an app for everything now and the majority of them just appeared in the last few years, driven by a move away from desktop PCs to people using smartphones with functionality like GPS built in.
And app developers having easy access to "ready to integrate" backend systems for web based financial transactions, without having to write that sort of stuff themselves.
I've been frustrated for years by the lack of real time information on bus times.. yes you have been able to call up a timetable for many years (usually buried somewhere on an operator's website as a PDF) but it doesn't tell you whether the bus is coming or has already been..
now finally we have had real time tracking, but it's only a relatively recent thing . does that make it my idea? No, it was just obviously something that needed to happen at some point to make everyone's life easier. but we have to wait for certain technologies to become ubiquitous before it could become (worth it to be) implemented. in the case of buses it was probably fitting of GPS trackers so providers could manage their fleets more easily. Us getting real time tracking out of that was merely a happy by product.
just like it probably wasn't worth developing a wetherspoons app until just about every single person sitting around an average wetherspoons table would likely have a mobile phone in their hand with an always-on, non-datacapped nternet connection, running at reasonable speed and enough storage to hold such an app.(without having to delete it to put something else on)
my 2p's worth
Regards,
Glen
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George Jackson
But that really is beside the point to be honest. I clearly stated that I wasn't here to stake a claim. Indeed, I felt it was even quite possible that the person I spoke to then (and signed the contract with then) might still be around and might be in a position to either say what actually did happen after we met, or to put the issue to bed for once and for all.
Either way, I didn't come here looking for a payday for something that happened over 8 years ago now. I let it go then when I first saw it in action in 2019, with nothing more and nothing less than the thought that 'I knew I was right!' And if that person did do anything with the idea (which they claimed to be in a position to do) then my only thought was good luck to you! I had other fish to fry at that time, in any case. Even if he did nothing with it, the scepticism he appeared to show then was clearly unfounded. In that case, even given your apparent supposition that it was such an obvious idea that 'anyone could have thought of it', with respect that really does read like the certainty of hindsight. At that particular juncture it was almost certainly the case that probably not a great many people had thought of it ('yet', as your supposition appears to imply), so if we had proceeded at that time, it would very probably just have come down to whom exactly might get there first? For sure, your idea is certainly interesting. But perhaps the reason it may not yet have been realised in the way you envisaged, is that there is no commercial incentive for bus operators to do so? Buses as a business are often just not that profitable, and there are many bus routes that are simply not profitable at all. Whereas in the above case, there clearly was a meaningful use case, because it added to the efficiency of the business as a whole. I am mildly autistic. In 2014 getting a food order at the bar in Wetherspons was often a fraught and mildly traumatic experience, especially during the weekends, where the bar might be several bodies deep. Perhaps it might take the workings of an autistic mind, to see a thing that in another light might seem a profoundly anti-social thing to wish for.
That said, I hoped only that it might serve as a demonstration that I'm not a person who's short of an occasionally very good idea. Indeed, as I indicated, I in fact have another (potentially very 'obvious') good idea, that while given your appraisal, someone else may indeed think of it eventually, that does not appear to have been the case so far. Indeed, might I possibly argue that all great ideas probably seem somewhat obvious. It often comes down to the 'why didn't I think of that? It's so obvious' syndrome, I feel. The more obvious an idea is, the more potential it probably has. To that end, I think my latest proposal is so massively 'obvious', it's almost certainly a sure fire winner. I think if a truly good idea can seem both obvious and inevitable, that is probably a rather good foundation on which to base any project.
And no, I don't particularly buy that if this person did go forward with this idea, then the only way to prove this would be if he took all my proposals forward at that time. That just doesn't seem to make an awful lot of sense to me. Has every good idea you may have had inevitably came to fruition?
In any case, I'm glad I appear to have at least been able to perhaps open a conversation up. Your scepticism is understandable, even if the vehemence of it is a little surprising. But like all projects of this nature, scepticism is usually the first (and often seemingly insurmountable), obstacle that needs to be overcome. But if we all just gave up when someone expresses some level of scepticism (and in this case perhaps 'scorn' also), regarding some plan or project or other we might have in mind, we would probably all still be living in caves.
So once more, I extend my invite. If anyone on this forum is perhaps interested in discussing this, or any of my other 'patently obvious' ideas, please do feel free to drop me a note. :) I could go further abroad to look for help (perhaps even literally), nut for now I am grounded in Newcastle and would welcome an opportunity to work with anyone locally.
George Jackson
But for now ... Sorry for the autocorrect error.
On a closing note, anyone with experience in both web and/or mobile development would be of particular interest, but as noted in my original post, this is certainly not obligatory.
Dan Nixon
Will McElderry
Hi George,
I am very much in the space of developing technology for new
startups. I've worked with 6 or 7 startups that have all done
well on the technical side (some are still going, most ceased
trading due to company management issues - each one different),
and I am currently preparing to look for my next project to work
on, ideally collaborating with others. Like many others on this
list I've worked with a wide range of technologies, from embedded
systems to server-side, android development, projects involving
AI, number crunching scientific calculations, large databases
(some would claim 'Big Data', but I'm not convinced it's big
enough - only tens of millions of records, exploring billions of
relationships), cryptography, 3D rendering and more buzz words
too. I may be wrong, but I reckon I'm one of the people you are
trying to reach.
I am put off from collaborating with you for a few reasons. I'm
not listing them here as I don't want to make you feel upset, get
into a debate over my reasons, or accidentally invite others to
list their reasons.
Having said that, I want to offer to help by letting you know what my reasons are if:
(a) you can accept them as 'my reasons' (i.e. without
triggering a long discussion or debating details)
(b) you can take it as constructive: aimed at helping
you avoid putting the same blockers in your communication in
future
If you'd find that useful let me know, otherwise I'll stay out of the discussion.
Either way, I wish you all the best for the future, and really hope you make your millions in the next few years.
Most people that try (including me) find it's frustrating and
hard work and it doesn't usually end how they(we) want, so I hope
you can enjoy the process of trying!
All the best,
Will.
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Glen Beestone
But probably others had thought of it too, even if you didn't come into contact with them.
Wetherspoons were by no means the first pub chain to introduce such an app in the UK. merely the largest and first nationwide chain to do so.
And online food delivery services existed before that, just people used them on home computers. so do something in-house is arguably way less complex as it doesn't need to take into account delivery logistics, and on a phone, once smart phones were ubiquitous, is definitely a logical progression from that
When you consider so much is done these days from a smart phone because the time had simply come for that sort of idea, then it would be odd (to me at least) to think that someone had taken Your idea specifically, and they had then done it for themselves.
So you were asking the question. did someone rip off your idea ? in my opinion, very very unlikely. such apps already existed (or were about to exist) even if wetherspoons were later to the party.
Or is it a coincidence? yes, but hardly one at all, because we can now see that so many things have gone that way
But let's say for the sake of argument that IS what happened and you tracked this person down (presumably you know who they are..you have their name on an NDA?)
what do you get out of that. their answer is always going to be no regardless, either because they really didn't do it, or because admitting a breach of NDA may mean you take legal action against them.
You asked what people's thoughts were on the matter. Those are mine.
Rgds,
Glen
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Glen Beestone
That was kind of my point. That no matter what the demand or who has the idea or how great they think the idea is, sometimes a combination of tech, a tipping point of market demand and financial drivers all need to align for it to be the right time for something.
And once those things do line up then it's sometimes inevitable that somebody's going to implement independently, because at that point it sort of becomes obvious to somebody that this is a niche waiting to be filled.
But for now ... Sorry for the autocorrect error.
On a closing note, anyone with experience in both web and/or mobile development would be of particular interest, but as noted in my original post, this is certainly not obligatory.
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/north-east-makers/e064e461-bc9e-4875-b17f-b158c7538f38n%40googlegroups.com.
George Jackson
George Jackson
If you feel you detect some degree of lack of humility on my part, I assure you that that is not the case. My life (probably like yours) has been peppered with far more failures than successes. Humility is forced upon us in such circumstances. But if we all just gave up in light of our combined failures, as noted in a previous response above, our world would probably be a very different place. My argument was simply that 'novelty' is not as easy to come by as some contributors here have appeared to imply. I'm also aware that 'novelty' alone is by no means a harbinger of any potential for success, and that many other factors are likely to come into play along the path.
But for sure, if you would like to discuss these topics, or any related subjects, I would welcome the opportunity to do so. If the advice is salient, I will of course incorporate it in my future plans.
With warm regards,
George Jackson
And you are entitled to them Glen. However, regardless of if someone else would have come up with the idea eventually, it remains the case that if I had pursued it then, given its 'relative' novelty at that time (regardless to what degree you believe this to be true or not), that it would probably still have come down (at the very least), to who got there first, as is the case with much invention throughout history. I can reel off a dozen examples off the top of my head, where had history taken a slightly different turn, those engineers and inventors who are now household names to many of us, may have been supplanted by the names of other individuals who followed these people very closely, with very similar work of their own. Often invention in this regard, I agree, is simply a matter of precedence. However, I would still argue that genuine novelty, where a thing can be made that has the potential to change the way we as a society do things for much of the foreseeable future, is not quite as common a quality as you might suppose. In that regard, I maintain that the more 'obvious' an idea appears to be, the more compelling its use case is likely to be also.
George
Will McElderry
Hi George,
To be absolutely clear: I do not mean to suggest anyone is having (or would have) a go.
My meaning was that I want to avoid the situation that I try and
help by emailing here and then others try and help in the same way
and it FEELS like we're just having a go to you.
All the best,
Will.
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George Jackson
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David Pye
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George Jackson
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David Pye
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Glen Beestone
Your "all is forgiven" seems to be predicated on the absolute belief (and that is all it is) that someone on this group stole your idea.
You've offered no proof and have rejected all opinions that ideas can be thought of independently, especially when the time is prime for them.
G.
David Pye
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