discussion topic, your own personal cloud

[Ryan Snow]

I'm not sure if Chris was going to introduce the topic for discussion for next time (and I don't have your address!), so I'm just going to throw this out there, and you're welcome to elaborate/edit etc.

The thought came up in the last meeting for basically setting up all your basic online services to run from your own home computer. So I think for starters that means mail and storage. It could be fun to run your own bbs or whatever too.

This idea is pretty hot right now, check for example Wired magazine, where Clive Thompson and others have been writing about this a lot lately:
http://www.wired.com/opinion/2014/02/2203thompson/

So I guess for software there is Sync, Tonido, and OpenStack for doing that sort of thing (I could be wrong, haven't begun to read into these yet). Has anyone used these?

The meeting will be next Tuesday Mar. 11, at 7:00 pm at the Missoula Public Library in the makerspace room (downstairs).

[Michael Loftis]

Honestly getting the virtualization done isn't even half the battle. Speaking for hosting your own mail....

Unless you're on business class connectivity your ISP May place random incoming and outgoing blocks (SMTP is a popular outgoing block) and for certain you have a dynamic ip so outgoing mail had to be "brokered" or "proxy" (correct mail term is smart host)  .

Then there is incoming spam. Dear lord the spam....

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into trouble of all kinds."
-- Samuel Butler

[Ryan Snow]

I was assuming that all traffic (including mail/SMTP) would just be considered "internet traffic," but I guess ISPs don't think so. Sounds illegal. So then is it feasible to get hosted service that you manage, and lock it down?

I'm guessing google doesn't license out a spam-control system, which would be nice. So what's the maintenance investment like for security? Just keep the software updated?, or do you need to be watching logs, etc? So yeah, probably admin is a little more than I'm willing to do for mail, right now, with spam+security+basicadmin.

Are there secure ways to use mail without running your own server? PGP/Encryption?

As a fallback, let's say we only want storage a la Dropbox. The drawback I imagine first is upload speed, but are there problems other than that? I assume there's some simple software for something like this, but if not, there's always ftp.

[Darrick Bova]

Cool topic.  I ran my own personal mail server years ago on an old Sparc 20 (still in my garage).  Back then the ISPs let everything through (had dynamic IP but used dyndns). Today if you are on a residential account most of the time your domain will be black listed.  Even if your ISP does let SMTP through you'll have to deal with that.  You'll need a commercial account with a static IP.  It must have gotten easier since I've ran my own but you have to make sure it's locked down so you don't become some relay for a spammer. I suppose you can run your own on a hosted server too (eliminate being blocked and b/w issues).

For cloud storage there's owncloud.  There's probably others but this one is open source and has mobile and desktop clients.  I'm going to try this one out on a server I just set up on a cable modem (dynamic but using noip)...see how it goes.

Before Facebook I ran my own web server (phpnuke) that I posted news and photos for family and friends.  I had fun with it changing the theme with the seasons, mass emailing everybody with news, etc.

For instant messaging you can run your own jabber server.  You would have to get everybody else to use it though.

- Darrick

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

[Michael Loftis]

On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 8:29 PM, Ryan Snow <rjs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I was assuming that all traffic (including mail/SMTP) would just be
> considered "internet traffic," but I guess ISPs don't think so. Sounds
> illegal.

And thus you've discovered Net Neutrality! It *SHOULD* be illegal.
The FCC has even argued that and lost - they lost on a technicality
because they have NOT declared ISPs to be common carriers. And the
ONLY way *right now* for the FCC to enforce such, is to declare the
ISPs common carriers. Which has a LOT of baggage with it. So for
now, Verizon, ATT, Comcast, TimeWarner, have won. They have the right
to block whatever traffic they wish. They have the right to decide
what part or parts of the internet you can access, and how fast. And
you have no recourse. Until congress changes the law or the FCC
declares them common carriers (and takes the case BACK to court...)

> So then is it feasible to get hosted service that you manage, and
> lock it down?

Thats exactly what companies like Amazon EC2, RackSpace, Linode (can't
really recommend linode), and many more, do. :) VPS (VM/shared but
you have root/your own like machine) or Dedicated (your own actual
leased hardware) servers.

> I'm guessing google doesn't license out a spam-control system, which would
> be nice. So what's the maintenance investment like for security? Just keep
> the software updated?, or do you need to be watching logs, etc? So yeah,
> probably admin is a little more than I'm willing to do for mail, right now,
> with spam+security+basicadmin.

You used to be able to get postini through them which was/is the same
services but IDK now.

> Are there secure ways to use mail without running your own server?
> PGP/Encryption?

Ish, which only works with those you've shared pubkeys with etc...so...yeah...

>
> As a fallback, let's say we only want storage a la Dropbox. The drawback I
> imagine first is upload speed, but are there problems other than that? I
> assume there's some simple software for something like this, but if not,
> there's always ftp.

Yup there is, ownCloud is one such piece software. There's others.
Not something I've dabbled with much personally.

[Darrick Bova]

Oh yeah, Tonido looks cool too.  I'll check them both out.

[Darrick Bova]

Got owncloud running on my server (Sun Fire X4100 running Fedora).  It's awesome!  Hopefully I can make the meeting next week and show everybody.

I forgot, a few years ago I played with Amahi for a while after my windows home sever died. It was in it's infancy when I messed with it but it looks like it's come a long ways.  I had it setup to backup my PCs in addition to be my NAS.  Now it looks like they charge for the premium features which is dumb.  

http://www.amahi.org/

Something else I ran across while getting owncloud up and running is UCS (Univention Corporate Server).  It is basically a windows server replacement.  It has an "app store" where you can install owncloud, mail/groupware and other things.  There is a free for personal use license (limits to 5 objects, whatever that means): http://www.univention.com/download-and-support/license-models/free-for-personal-use-license/  I downloaded their VM version to check it out.

---

From: Darrick Bova <db...@yahoo.com>
To: msla...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 5, 2014 10:45 PM

Subject: Re: [MLUG] discussion topic, your own personal cloud

Oh yeah, Tonido looks cool too.  I'll check them both out.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Darrick Bova
Date:03/05/2014 10:39 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: Ryan Snow ,msla...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MLUG] discussion topic, your own personal cloud

Cool topic.  I ran my own personal mail server years ago on an old Sparc 20 (still in my garage).  Back then the ISPs let everything through (had dynamic IP but used dyndns). Today if you are on a residential account most of the time your domain will be black listed.  Even if your ISP does let SMTP through you'll have to deal with that.  You'll need a commercial account with a static IP.  It must have gotten easier since I've ran my own but you have to make sure it's locked down so you don't become some relay for a spammer. I suppose you can run your own on a hosted server too (eliminate being blocked and b/w issues).

For cloud storage there's owncloud.  There's probably others but this one is open source and has mobile and desktop clients.  I'm going to try this one out on a server I just set up on a cable modem (dynamic but using noip)...see how it goes.

Before Facebook I ran my own web server (phpnuke) that I posted news and photos for family and friends.  I had fun with it changing the theme with the seasons, mass emailing everybody with news, etc.

For instant messaging you can run your own jabber server.  You would have to get everybody else to use it though.

- Darrick

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

[kristoffer]

Ryan thanks for getting that started I think the discussion on the topic has turned in the direction I was thinking,  My interest is in setting up a NAS that is very low powered and possible running some distro of Linux (anyone used OpenMediaVault?), or what seems to be very popular is FreeNas.  In addition to that I have been reading up on OwnCloud but haven't tried it out, very interested to here more from Darrick about his experience with it and what his main uses are for it.  I've also considered Seafile, Sparkleshare, and BTSync.  My main goal is to set up my own NAS and one for my brother and then use them as offsite backup. I played with Tonida several years ago and didn't realize it was still a thing.

[kristoffer]

Thanks Ryan for getting the topic started. The personal cloud scenario was exactly what I was interested in. I'm looking into putting together several low powered, 24/7 NAS in different locations so that my brother and I can provide each other off site backup and storage. I've read about owncloud and am very interested to see how Darrick set it up. I've also been considering FreeNas,seafile,sparkle share, and BTSync. Has anyone used OpenMeduaVault?

[Michael Loftis]

The somewhat duplicate here is kind of my fault...I didn't notice the
messages were almost identical as I approved them, just that they
weren't SPAM.

In my defense, there were TWO different messages....just not very different :D

On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 7:03 AM, kristoffer <kristof...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Ryan for getting the topic started. The personal cloud scenario was exactly what I was interested in. I'm looking into putting together several low powered, 24/7 NAS in different locations so that my brother and I can provide each other off site backup and storage. I've read about owncloud and am very interested to see how Darrick set it up. I've also been considering FreeNas,seafile,sparkle share, and BTSync. Has anyone used OpenMeduaVault?
>

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[kristoffer nord]

Sorry about the double post, I didn't realize the group had a moderator and only saw a note that my first post had been deleted, or so I thought. 

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[Michael Loftis]

On Friday, March 7, 2014, kristoffer nord <kristof...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry about the double post, I didn't realize the group had a moderator and only saw a note that my first post had been deleted, or so I thought. 

For first time post. It's because of SPAM issues in the past. I could probably turn it off now as it's been a while since I have seen any spam attempts that weren't preemptively stopped by google.

[Jonathan Neff]

Hmm. Is this the Missoula Linux User Group? Or, is it the Mike Loftis User Group?! Hah!
Mike knows I'm kidding - he probably has a way to turn off my internet from Seattle.

That being said, I'm going to be testing owncloud at $work next week.
-jonathan

[Darrick Bova]

Good meeting last night, wish it was longer... Anyway, I decided to wipe my server with Fedora 20 install and put CentOS 6 on it.  Seems there's more server support for it (RHEL).  Plus I want to run minecraft servers (for my son, although I'd play it if owned it) and use McMyAdmin 2 which the dev says CentOS is best.  

Ha, just as I'm typing this the install completed... ok... yum update...

---

From: kristoffer <kristof...@gmail.com>
To: msla...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 7, 2014 8:03 AM

Subject: Re: [MLUG] discussion topic, your own personal cloud

Thanks Ryan for getting the topic started.  The personal cloud scenario was exactly what I was interested in. I'm looking into putting together several low powered, 24/7 NAS in different locations so that my brother and I can provide each other off site backup and storage.  I've read about owncloud and am very interested to see how Darrick set it up.  I've also been considering FreeNas,seafile,sparkle share, and BTSync.  Has anyone used OpenMeduaVault? 

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[Darrick Bova]

I'm stuck.  The network interfaces aren't showing up.  Looks like I'll need to install the drivers seperately. It's Nvidia chipset and Sun hardware. Aarrgh.

-------- Original message --------
From: Darrick Bova

Date:03/12/2014 4:17 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: msla...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [MLUG] discussion topic, your own personal cloud

Good meeting last night, wish it was longer... Anyway, I decided to wipe my server with Fedora 20 install and put CentOS 6 on it.  Seems there's more server support for it (RHEL).  Plus I want to run minecraft servers (for my son, although I'd play it if owned it) and use McMyAdmin 2 which the dev says CentOS is best.  

Ha, just as I'm typing this the install completed... ok... yum update...

---

From: kristoffer <kristof...@gmail.com>
To: msla...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 7, 2014 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: [MLUG] discussion topic, your own personal cloud

Thanks Ryan for getting the topic started.  The personal cloud scenario was exactly what I was interested in. I'm looking into putting together several low powered, 24/7 NAS in different locations so that my brother and I can provide each other off site backup and storage.  I've read about owncloud and am very interested to see how Darrick set it up.  I've also been considering FreeNas,seafile,sparkle share, and BTSync.  Has anyone used OpenMeduaVault? 

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[Darrick Bova]

Turns out I needed to edit the ifcfg-eth0 and change ONBOOT=no to yes and restart networking.

Kristoffer mentioned interest in running a flighsim server.  I found what I think you where looking for.  Flight sim is Flightgear and they just updated to v3.0.  Info on setting up a server:  http://wiki.flightgear.org/Howto:Set_up_a_multiplayer_server.  I just might setup one as well just for fun.  But not until I figure out my McMyAdmin issue... same problem on CentOS.  Waiting to here back from the dev on that. 

- Darrick

---

From: Darrick Bova <db...@yahoo.com>
To: "msla...@googlegroups.com" <msla...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 5:48 PM

Subject: Re: [MLUG] discussion topic, your own personal cloud

I'm stuck.  The network interfaces aren't showing up.  Looks like I'll need to install the drivers seperately. It's Nvidia chipset and Sun hardware. Aarrgh.

I'm stuck.  The network interfaces aren't showing up.  Looks like I'll need to install the drivers seperately. It's Nvidia chipset and Sun hardware. Aarrgh.

<br><br>-------- Original message --------<br>From: Darrick Bova <db...@yahoo.com> <br>Date:03/12/2014  4:17 PM  (GMT-07:00) <br>To: msla...@googlegroups.com <br>Subject: Re: [MLUG] discussion topic, your own personal cloud <br><br>

[Michael Loftis]

ifconfig -a will show you interfaces regardless of state - or if you
want to be NEW school ip link list or ip addr list :)

[Darrick Bova]

Yep, thanks.

---

From: Michael Loftis <mlo...@wgops.com>
To: "msla...@googlegroups.com" <msla...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 11:05 AM

> email to msla-lug+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

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>
> Good meeting last night, wish it was longer... Anyway, I decided to wipe my
> server with Fedora 20 install and put CentOS 6 on it.  Seems there's more
> server support for it (RHEL).  Plus I want to run minecraft servers (for my
> son, although I'd play it if owned it) and use McMyAdmin 2 which the dev
> says CentOS is best.
>
> Ha, just as I'm typing this the install completed... ok... yum update...
>
> From: kristoffer <kristof...@gmail.com>
> To: msla...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Friday, March 7, 2014 8:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [MLUG] discussion topic, your own personal cloud
>
> Thanks Ryan for getting the topic started.  The personal cloud scenario was
> exactly what I was interested in. I'm looking into putting together several
> low powered, 24/7 NAS in different locations so that my brother and I can
> provide each other off site backup and storage.  I've read about owncloud
> and am very interested to see how Darrick set it up.  I've also been
> considering FreeNas,seafile,sparkle share, and BTSync.  Has anyone used
> OpenMeduaVault?
>
>
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-- Samuel Butler

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[Jonathan Neff]

Delayed, but spent a fair chunk of time with owncloud this week and am ready to throw it out the window.  Setup is pretty straightforward and I appreciate the repository for the packages and the integration with LDAP/AD.  However, there's no way to upload folders within the webUI, just files.  Seriously.  I'm evaluating this as a tool for a collaborative research project at $work and not being able to upload folders is a deal breaker.

-Jonathan

[Seth McClain]

I'm thinking that I'd like to show off some SteamOS stuff next meeting if that is cool.  I'm hoping to have 4 SteamOS boxes set up and running by Memorial Day weekend so showing them off at the beginning of May sounds possible.

[Warren Sanders]

Jonathan,

I don't use the web front-end for much of anything really especially for uploading/downloading.  I prefer to use a webdav connection.  For instance, in KDE, I use the Dolphin file manager with a saved webdav pointer.  Simply drag and drop files or folders wherever you want.

For my Android devices, I use WebDAV File Manager to setup a particular folder I want to sync.  I did pay for the ownCloud app but it lacks syncing to custom folders on my phone unlike the sync client for the desktop which does.  So really all I care about syncing is my Keepass db.  I'll use the webdav app to pull in anything else like select music; not enough space to sync the complete library of music which a sync would force.

Warren

On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Jonathan Neff <jonath...@gmail.com> wrote: