Re: [Moo] Re: Now that Joomla (3.0) has almost given up on Mootools, what will become of it ?

[Sanford Whiteman]

And posting this to the newsgroup is useful how? You don't come here to help the community, just to declare it dead? Just SEO spam by another name, methinks.

Then there's your n00b interpretation of commit rates and questions asked. First, comparisons to 800lb gorillas are rarely scientific. Second, check the rate of commits and newbie questions on the PHP project, then listen on the dev list: every project has a personality that is way outside simple numbers. jQuery's goal is to make smart + stupid people alike think they know JavaScript. That's an ignoble goal IMO but its success was a foregone conclusion.

-- S.

[Aaron Newton]

I hate to say it, but I think his choice was prudent (though, maybe posting it here wasn't). There are many ways to measure the fact that jQuery is a more successful open source than MooTools. That's not to say it's better code (I don't think it is), but it's a more successful product in almost every way. I'm one of the founding members of this project and when someone asks me what framework to use I rarely say MooTools anymore. It's great and *I* still use it, but the reality is that the market has made a choice. You can't hire MooTools experts, there's not a ton of development against the project going on, etc. I think that jQuery will run its course and either adapt and become a better framework or, more likely, someone else, maybe one of YOU, will come out with the new hotness that everyone moves to. MooTools 2 or whatever you call it, sitting on Valerio's github, is beautiful and powerful, but unless people rally to it and write docs, make websites, demos, and tutorials (as I did w/ MooTools when it launched) it won't go anywhere.

In short, if you don't want MooTools to continue to be less and less relevant in this market, it's on YOU to make something better than jQuery. If you aren't willing to do that, moving to jQuery isn't a bad idea at all.

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[Sanford Whiteman]

> That's not to say it's better code (I don't think it is), but it's a
> more successful product in almost every way.

I can't remember ever _celebrating my use_ of a product that has
crappy internals when I know I'm using it just because "most people
do."

There is nothing, absolutely nothing to recommend the jQuery way of
coding over the MooTools way. You can grit your teeth and use jQ, keep
a poker face and use jQ, or you can go your own way, but _celebrating_
going over to the mainstream is just trolling us. It's like radio-rap
braggadocio, where only fame, money, and lies matter. MooTools, like
other boutique frameworks, is dead as much as underground rap is dead.
As in, check your perspective.

Anyway, I couldn't care less about people choosing to use lamestream
technology, but their reasons for doing so have to be _really_
original to merit ad hominem "put a fork in your language/
framework/OS" posts into a community newsgroup. We wouldn't stand for
it on PHP internals, they wouldn't stand for it on
comp.lang.javascript, etc. so why here?

> In short, if you don't want MooTools to continue to be less and less
> relevant in this market, it's on YOU to make something better than
> jQuery. If you aren't willing to do that, moving to jQuery isn't a
> bad idea at all.

Using MooTools is still a way to keep it relevant and I would never
recommend "go to jQ unless you can fork or supersede Moo." I really
don't get that point. I'm sure launching a funded startup powered by
Moo, with custom classes doing the heavy lifting, and blogging about
your technology choice does plenty to keep it relevant (got some cash
lying around?). And with more than one front-end dev, you can put more
pressure on for bugfixes and updates because I find big projects
demand features-as-intended instead of backing out features when the
framework puts up a block.

I concede that in my own projects I will write pure JS to work around
Moo gaps without pushing anything to the public. I'm looking at a
function called "getFirstXML" I wrote to do cross-browser stuff that
Moo couldn't do. *hangs head* I shouldn't do that, I should wrap it
up, test it better, send a pull request. But, like most Moo diehards,
I am an above-average user of plain JS -- even if I'm no expert -- so
I'm not going to go wailing to SO if I have a problem. Yet I suppose I
am selfish enough to not contribute core code. That's why I help out
on this list so much, because I find it more rewarding even if it
often takes more time. Stupid, yes... but none of my mistakes directly
make jQuery any better, and if I give $n amount of time, I think
helping people here as fast and as much as I can is helping us seem
alive.

As for frameworks that are better than jQuery and newer than MooTools,
well, just about anything that's gained a following over the past
18-24 months (knockout, underscore, et al.) is interesting to me. Yet
still "nobody" uses them compared to jQuery. Then again, "nobody" uses
my favorite boutique PHP frameworks and I don't care. If I start using
Zend or whatever I'm "supposed" to be using, I can't see cheering
myself on.

And jQuery agitated for n00b acceptance from the get-go, as I noted
above. It was destined to be bigger, as PHP was destined to be bigger
than ASP.NET (and that gap is rising). It's not that remarkable and we
shouldn't close up shop just because the Microsoft Bob of frameworks
reigns supreme.

-- S.

[Aaron Newton]

I realize that we are basically now trolling each other, which I don't intend. I love MooTools!

But I'm also pragmatic. Here's what's not great about MooTools (this is a list of shame for me, to some extent):

• If you're a MooTools expert, you're probably not going to find a job where they use it. Half of the dev team now works at Facebook and they don't get to use MooTools. MooTools devs have gone to twitter, to Spottify, and elsewhere and to my knowledge, only those doing their own thing are using it (i.e. almost none of them).
• Businesses can't build on top of it. For every 1 MooTools user there's 10,000 jQuery users. This means that you can't hire anyone to build on it. Yes, 90% of those 10K jQuery users are not real programmers, but sometimes you don't need a real programmer (sometimes a designer who can get by will do) and, when you do, that remaining 10% of the jQuery users that ARE programmers are still a dramatically larger talent pool than the MooTools users out there.
• Hardcore JS talent - people who actively go look for 100% JavaScript jobs - don't tend to use frameworks like MooTools so much. The ones out there building w/ node have a whole ecosystem of tools and MooTools isn't one of them. Here I'm thinking of Guillermo Rauch (http://www.devthought.com/) doing his own startup that he founded built on top of node. Guess what: the UI is jQuery. Why? Because it's the least interesting part of the work.
• MooTools is so awesome, but it's become academic. It's something that people who found it in 2006 or 2007 still use. I personally approve every applicant for access to this google group (to avoid spam) and the number of people signing up for it now are 2 to 4 a month. That's not a growing community.

I don't say all these things to make you feel like the sky is falling or that your favorite framework is dead (it isn't). But rather to show you that if you want it to be a relevant framework you have to step up and lead. If you think MooTools needs something to be competitive, go make it...

-a

-- S.

[Dimitar Christoff]

this blog post is trolling. it does nobody any good and the OP may as well have picked the Ferrari forum to write about mass produced Toyotas supremacy and why he drives a Prius instead. 

mootools is what it is. we all loved working with it / on it while the rest of the world settled for an inferior "product" due to better support and relative ease of use. 

now you cannot find work as a mootools dev and this on its own is enough to justify swapping over. but the objective choice (pun intended) is still as clear as on the day Aaron wrote the mootools vs jquery site. just slightly less practical. 

I hope prime works out, been using it a lot and even adopted it at my bank on the quiet. but that does not mean displacing jquery, simply providing a viable modular alternative for nodejs and the browser is a great achievement and fills a niche. 

I agree with pretty much all of Aaron's arguments, though. I miss working with it but  I get by just fine. 

--
Dimitar Christoff

"JavaScript is to JAVA what hamster is to ham"
@D_mitar - https://github.com/DimitarChristoff

[Eric Patrick]

I'll hire a few MooTools devs.

My apologies if a hiring post is inappropriate in this forum.

Please contact me directly @ patric...@gmail.com if you're interested. We're located in Foothill Ranch, CA, and built B2B sites (primarily in the banking sector) based on a "home-rolled" framework that uses MooTools.  (The server side is ASP.NET / C#, SQL server back end.)  Working remotely is possible, but not preferable, so if you're in the Irvine area, that's ideal.

Job tasks:

• Build and extend Moo-based behaviors, such as integrating our data with Google Visualization APIs, geocoding and complex form validators
• Abstract client specific requirements into generic patterns that can be encapsulated as behaviors
• Extend Jasmine helpers to facilitate development of test scripts
• Re-factor our existing behaviors to contribute back to the Moo community

---

My company has the same issues you are describing here: an interesting framework, without widespread adoption. I suppose that leaves me with the flexibility to choose a js framework for the 'right' technical reasons, since I'll never find a developer with experience in our overall framework.

Far more importantly, I want to hire people who engage in the Moo community / choose the Mootools framework because such engagement is far more likely to indicate a critical thinking skill set that we want to hire than engaging in the jQuery community is likely to indicate.

There's some irony in the 'businesses can't build on top of it' reasoning :-)

Eric Patrick

[Aaron Newton]

nice Eric!

[Erik Cervin Edin]

I haven't used mootools or jquery that much but I'm interested in both frameworks. I don't know much about the mootools community, joining this group a few days ago after finding it on Aaron's site. What's the issue at stake here? Is there a problem with the mootools community? It's évident to me that jquery has a far larger user base and a larger support community but it never occurred to me that the mootools community was dying. All I've noticed is that there is a far longer tail of jquery articles on the Web, so it's much easier to find specific solutions to specific problems for jquery. Like I said, don't know terribly much about the framework but it seems rather interesting. What's the deal here?

[Aaron Newton]

Hi Erik,

MooTools itself is fine. It's great, it works, I love it. You should totally learn how to use it; it'll teach you things about JavaScript. But if you look at the market and choose a framework, jQuery is the right one to choose. If you're a product owner or an engineering lead, you can hire people w/ jQuery experience, but you'll have a hard time finding MooTools developers. If you're a developer and you're looking for a job and you love MooTools, you'll find all the jobs list jQuery as a requirement. 

My basic argument here is that jQuery and MooTools reversed their order of priorities like so:

jQuery:

1. Empower the community, both the developers and the users (there's a reason why this exists: http://communityovercode.com/ and why Apache is so successful). 
2. Make it predictable; roadmaps and clear upgrade paths are mandatory 
3. Make it easy to learn and use 
4. Make the code good

MooTools did the opposite (1. code, 2. learn, 3. predictable, 4. community). MooTools is a fantastic framework and arguably the best one (I'm biased). But it's harder to learn and we've done zero work on things like meetups and conferences and whatnot. In the long run, jQuery built momentum that captured the market. So while the community here is fantastic (I love you guys!) it's just not growing, and loving MooTools is a burden because you'll likely not find a job where you can use it...

-a

[Erik Cervin Edin]

Yeah, that seem to the gist of things. Too bad this being employable thing is kind of important. Why not put more effort into promoting the framework?

[Aaron Newton]

Yeah, that seem to the gist of things. Too bad this being employable thing is kind of important. Why not put more effort into promoting the framework?

Go for it! I spent several years advocating for it (clientside.com, jqueryvsmootools.com, mootorial.com, I wrote a book about it, talked at conferences, released a lot of code, etc). I'd argue that if we had 20 people doing that kind of thing it would make a big difference. Everyone's busy though, and I and many of the original devs have gotten sidetracked (startups, Facebook poached a bunch of us, etc). It's still great tech, it just needs fresh blood. The key to open source projects is that as original members get distracted there's new people to jump in as they get excited about it. MooTools just never, as a project, did a great job at that stuff, despite our efforts...

[Erik Cervin Edin]

I figured it was a question of time / resources. I don't think I can help out when it comes to the code, yet ^_^, but I'll gladly help out in any other way I can.

On 14 Mar 2013 19:37, "Aaron Newton" <anu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yeah, that seem to the gist of things. Too bad this being employable thing is kind of important. Why not put more effort into promoting the framework?

Go for it! I spent several years advocating for it (clientside.com, jqueryvsmootools.com, mootorial.com, I wrote a book about it, talked at conferences, released a lot of code, etc). I'd argue that if we had 20 people doing that kind of thing it would make a big difference. Everyone's busy though, and I and many of the original devs have gotten sidetracked (startups, Facebook poached a bunch of us, etc). It's still great tech, it just needs fresh blood. The key to open source projects is that as original members get distracted there's new people to jump in as they get excited about it. MooTools just never, as a project, did a great job at that stuff, despite our efforts...

--

[Aaron Newton]

Here's something amazing. This is the traffic to jqueryvsmootools.com - it's pretty consistent. Around 1,200 people show up to it every week for over 3 years now:

[Tor]

I myself have never been worried about perhaps choosing the wrong framework because I chose the one I found easier and the one that was better structured. I think we're on the same page on the fact that learning jQuery will make it easier for you to catch a consulting gig but atleast for me switching to jQuery will not yet make my own projects run smoother.

 

Listen, there are tons of Mootools users that would help out in any way possible. When I read this thread I felt bad for not helping out so I created my first forge entry and will keep in mind in the future to develop for sharing and not for keeping to myself. Perhaps the community needs a wake up call, I for one wasn't aware that people thought Mootools was dying. The process of development on core and more is somewhat diffuse to me. I thought there was an inner circle of wizards that worked on it.

 

Tor Viktorsson / Åskvigg

[Erik Cervin Edin]

Heja Tor från Åskvigg!

--

[Aaron Newton]

The process of development on core and more is somewhat diffuse to me. I thought there was an inner circle of wizards that worked on it.

that perhaps used to be the case, but most of them now have kids and more demanding day jobs.

[Arian Stolwijk]

I don't have kids yet :D

On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 8:42 PM, Aaron Newton <anu...@gmail.com> wrote:

The process of development on core and more is somewhat diffuse to me. I thought there was an inner circle of wizards that worked on it.

that perhaps used to be the case, but most of them now have kids and more demanding day jobs.

[Aaron Newton]

Then hurry up and release Prime before it's too late!

[Arian Stolwijk]

Working on it: http://mootools.net/test/prime/ (best design ever!)

[patel.na...@gmail.com]

Awesome!
With disclaimer. :)

No Native JavaScript Objects were harmed in the making of this library.

Regards,
Nachiket Patel
http://www.jumpbyte.com

[Benjamin Kuker]

Having just written a fairly large open source UI framework in MooTools (see a few threads down), this is a topic I have a lot of interest in. I've been using MooTools for 5+ years and use it in most of my projects. I've used jQuery when I've had to, but it's definitely not my preference. Community seems like it has always been a struggle for MooTools, but I think perhaps a few simple changes might help jumpstart that. Here are some suggestions:

• Update the website template (this shows that the project isn't dead)
  
• Display more plugins at a time in the forge (improves discoverability)
  
• Update the blog at least twice a month
• More demos
• Make search work better (it often breaks for me and I find that there are a few broken links)
• Make it easier for a beginner to get started

These are all areas I would love to help pitch in, but it's really not immediately apparent how to do so, especially as it seems the website is scattered over several repositories. Aaron, if you or someone else would be willing to maybe write a blog post about how people could contribute to help revive MooTools, I feel like there might be a decent response. Who is the go-to person? What is the preferred contribution process? What are acceptance criteria? What needs to be done first/most?

Admittedly, I have a vested interest, but I think others might also want to or be willing to contribute as well. If most of the core developers are doing something else now, is there room for new blood?

[Benjamin Kuker]

Quite agreed. See my response to Aaron. I think maybe opening up to the community might be a good idea.

[piotr_cz]

I think it's worth to write a blog post about upcoming Prime and it's
packages. Even if it's not ready yet, it would be a nice teaser to get
a feeling of what's coming or get some testers.

I'd appreciate if Prime repositories would be consolidated in one
place (under Mootools organisation) a github. If I remember correctly,
some are under kamicane's account; while this might sound like small
thing, it's an extra obstacle for non-insiders


On Mar 14, 10:04 pm, Arian Stolwijk <stolwijk.ar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Working on it:http://mootools.net/test/prime/(best design ever!)

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 9:57 PM, Aaron Newton <anut...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Then hurry up and release Prime before it's too late!
>

> > On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Arian Stolwijk <stolwijk.ar...@gmail.com

> > > wrote:
>
> >> I don't have kids yet :D
>

> >> On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 8:42 PM, Aaron Newton <anut...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> The process of development on core and more is somewhat diffuse to me. I
> >>>> thought there was an inner circle of wizards that worked on it.
>
> >>> that perhaps used to be the case, but most of them now have kids and
> >>> more demanding day jobs.
>
> >>>  --
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[underscore_05]

I likely want to contribute in Mootools community but as of now all I can do is to promote it in my alma mater  by creating some helpful articles and code snippets though its just only posted in jsfiddle.net and facebook group.

 

I am very glad that after less than one year of working in MooTools I can now effectively extend plugins and understand what's really is going on. 

I can now effectively *rework others code or perform some changes on it because of its clean structure and clearness.

 

BTW. I really want MooTools to have a huge community. I am subscribed in this email but I think this is not enough to encourage new devs to use MooTools. I started using javascript by using jquery but its just copy paste and as of now upon looking at *some plugin, I can not really understand the flow unlike plugins that had been created using MooTools. And also, I started using MooTools because its mandatory in our company and its really hard at first but worth the effort.

[Chad Meyers]

Sometimes I wish I knew more - but for now, I know that MooTools is my choice.  I like it, I understand it, and I can do everything I need with only 1-3 external js files, core, more, and maybe something from the forge.  Every website I inspect that uses gayQuery *cough cough* I mean jQuery has like 5 external js files, just to add a lightbox/modal frame. - makes no sense to me, but then again, I guess I am not that smart.

I try my best to not pollute the internet with sloppy resource wasting code, I use MooTools. (I also hate "the man" and big box stores)

[Sanford Whiteman]

LOL, allow me to plug my own coinage from last year: jQiddies.

Chad, I like the snark: I guess we are not that smart. We like stuff
that is simultaneously elegant, simple, capable, and extensible. Maybe
someday we'll get "smart." :)

And thanks for the personal CC's, guys. Reassures me that we have a
team after all.

-- S.

[AlexD]

I resisted bashing jQuery for quite some time (and won't start now).
I think the reason Joomla time-by-time ditches MooTools is because its main antagonist, Wordpress, uses jQuery. The nail in the coffin was YooTheme with its warp framework, maybe it was simply cheaper to do all that UI/AJAX stuff with a more mainstream framework.

The only way MοоTools might thrive, solely depends on the real world examples its users can create (eg. the new wordpress/joomla/xenfоrο killer built on node.js with sockets and MοоTools anywhere the developers fit it).

The modularity of MοоTools (especially with wrapup - prime, agent etc.) is by its own a killer feature.
Adding old browser support for features like JSON is very easy if you need to support them.

[Chad Meyers]

I am sort of glad to see Joomla go to jQiddies as the core code - I hated looking through all the extentions and having to weed out the ones that used jQiddies.  Nothing says streamlined and efficient like loading MooTools Core, and the full more package, then loading jQuery, jQueryUI, then 5 extra blocks of code (not to mention all the inline CSS you have to "overwrite" with your own !impotant inline CSS)

This topic brings this to mind - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGFXGwHsD_A

In the mean time, I am on a hunt for a better (not more popular) CMS.  Long live the wise old man, MooTools!

[rasmusfl0e]

None of the popular CMS's have learned their lesson; not to have tight couplings between their framework and a third party library. Joomla got into trouble having chosen MooTools - and is now doing the same mistake with jQuery; they are solving the wrong problem. History _will_ repeat itself...

An example: Drupal 7 core is hardcoded to use (a custom version? of) jQuery 1.4 - but since no one wants to use that old hat they load "jQuery update" which makes 1.8 avaiable... _on top_ of 1.4... *shudder*

For me MooTools has always been about being able to write javascript the way I wanted. Some other libraries look like they are about _not_ writing javascript.

The thing is that while MooTools has a broader scope than, say, jQuery, it has always had a much narrower demographic: people who already know javascript or people who actually want to learn.

Javascript has always been stigmatized because its not strongly typed (see wtfjs), can't do precise math, has "strange" prototype-based inheritance and terrible terrible DOM api among other things.
I see this stigmatization as whats really causing any library that isn't jQuery to suffer (I don't think its _just_ MooTools).

[piotr_cz]

I though I'll explain, why Joomla 3.0+ is phasing out to jQuery.

Actually, jQuery hasn't been picked directly.
- Production leadership team decided that modern CMS needs a
responsive front-end framework in it's core and due to some (IMHO
reasonable) criteria Bootstrap was picked. The fact that it utilizes
jQuery was a burden (majority of javascript written in MooTools)
- More UI plugins to choose from
- Designers (not developers) were calling for including jQuery for a
long time.

I've read few posts here: it's their problem, I'm happy with MooTools.
I understand this point of view, but in my opinion this is short-
sighted. I believe this community is made of very skilled developers
but smaller the community, less driving force, less innovation and
less testers.

I think we should brainstorm in how and if to move Mootools forward.
What are the upcoming challanges for next few years? What are we
missing? What's not working and what is?

Some of the challenges for me are:
- mobile devices development
- responsive UI framework
- MVC framework (and sync)
- server-side javascript

You might say that all of this is possible using Mootools now. Sure.
But I have to dig and search and honestly, if I'd be starting with
Javascript at this moment, maybe I'd pick Sencha or jQuery + backbone
+ Bootstrap.


I haven't been involved in Mootools community much (no published
plugins in forge, little activity on forum) mostly because I felt that
my code is not good enough and my skills are low comparing to big
fishes.

[pixel67]

I have to agree with you 100% on this. I would love to see more of mootools, better tutorials, active community etc.. maybe it's time to take the bull by the horns and start doing something?

[Aaron Newton]

I have to agree with you 100% on this. I would love to see more of mootools, better tutorials, active community etc.. maybe it's time to take the bull by the horns and start doing something?

This is in line with what I was saying earlier. The core dev team is largely distracted or unavailable *cough*facebook*cough*. If this community wants MooTools to take a next step, the best, most direct way to make that happen is to start working. Remake the website! Start designing and building on top of Wordpress or something and when you have work you think is good post it here for feedback. As you approach something that could launch trust me, the dev team will chime in and give you the keys to post it. If you hate the search results, we can share the code that powers it so you can hack on it. If you wish that various bugs were fixed and pull requests were closed, fork the project, pull those fixes into it and call it a candidate for 1.5+ or whatever. Start writing tests and docs for the things that are missing. You don't need anyone's permission for this stuff. You accomplish things by doing them. Ask for permission after you've done it and, if you've done it well, you'll get it.

-a

[Tony Brown]

I hear you loud and clear Arron, I'm going ti make some time and start working on it actually when I have something put together I'll send it to the group for sure.

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[Tony Brown]

Yeah I hear you about that damn Facebook cough cough lol

[Andree Christaldi]

I've just dropped mootools and gone into jQuery (they even have video tutorials!) .. with bootstrap and ui widget.. . 

It's hard to see mootools making a comeback against this kind of major development / advancements were seeing here. 

Just look at the mootools commit rate vs jQuery on github... it says it all. 

[Sanford Whiteman]

Cool, enjoy it over there... maybe someone can help you understand
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/mootools-users/destructing$20views/mootools-users/sPtml4mGFvA/jvv0JO3MxFQJ

-- S.

[Andree Christaldi]

..?

[Tony Brown]

Submit a ticket and see what happens lol

..?

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--
Sincerely, 

Tony Brown

twitter:   https://twitter.com/pixelBender67

 

[Andree Christaldi]

Submit a ticket to where about what ? 

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand what your talking about.

[Tony Brown]

I have found that this group is very helpful when people ask questions, it's hit or miss at jQ's the McDonalds of JS. I've seen tickets just go unanswered for ever, that's what I'm talking about, is that what you are referring to? Sanford's link show's that someone had a problem and that problem was addressed promptly with a solution, what don't you get?

-Cheers

[Tony Brown]

I've been in your shoes, I got frustrated with mootools when I first was learning, but I'm back and here to tell you the grass is not greener on the other side. If you love JavaScript like I do, than stick with mootools, it's more in line with the language :)

[Andree Christaldi]

I do love mootools, I've been using it for about 4-5 years - exclusively, and wrote code for it and submitted pull requests.

The thing is, it's not moving forward. Mootools core developers are too busy (facebooking?) and not commiting other code people are writing and submitting.. so it's stagnated.

[Tony Brown]

So help out, help make it better, because it is better :)

[Andree Christaldi]

I did help out, I submitted bug fixes and additional features to mootools more.. as many other users have .. no commits going on ..  nothing.. only tumble weed.

[Tony Brown]

Well this is what I got from Arron:

"This is in line with what I was saying earlier. The core dev team is largely distracted or unavailable *cough*facebook*cough*. If this community wants MooTools to take a next step, the best, most direct way to make that happen is to start working. Remake the website! Start designing and building on top of Wordpress or something and when you have work you think is good post it here for feedback. As you approach something that could launch trust me, the dev team will chime in and give you the keys to post it. If you hate the search results, we can share the code that powers it so you can hack on it. If you wish that various bugs were fixed and pull requests were closed, fork the project, pull those fixes into it and call it a candidate for 1.5+ or whatever. Start writing tests and docs for the things that are missing. You don't need anyone's permission for this stuff. You accomplish things by doing them. Ask for permission after you've done it and, if you've done it well, you'll get it."

So let;s pull together and get something going again, what do you say?

I would hate to see mootools lose anymore ground. I am really busy these days but will make the time to work on this with you and who ever else wants to help out :)

-T