So what's wrong with je suis charlie?

[archytas]

Killing cartoonists clearly can't be allowed.  There is no absolute authority for jihad, crusades or lacking a self-depreciating sense of humour prepared to rip loved ones from the lives of relatives and friends.  The most common 'cause' of killing and war in primitive societies is revenge, generally pretty dumb.

On the day Charlie Hebdo was struck, Boko Haram was doing much worse in Nigeria and 2000 died.  Yemen was pasted again.  25 million or so have died in wars after WW2 and any number of people have had peaceful lives destroyed by various forms of imperialism.  We understand revenge films where the child not slaughtered by Barbarians grows to destroy them.  There are at least questions we should be asking on whether fundamentalist Islam is radicalising terrorists, or the various imperialisms and the conditions these create in countries kept poor and run by installed despots.

Institutional religion is no use to me and I detest the hostility of those believers who would have me respect belief in superstition,clearly false history, varieties of justified sexism, racism, apartheid and selfish chosen-peopleism.  This extends far beyond religion and to false ideas that the Greek Enlightenment was the zenith of civilisation. This was a sexist, racist, slave economy.  Western democratic free trade liberalism is such a lie as to be merely another control fraud, not the end of history.

There is little clarity.  We stand as Charlie for free speech, yet do nothing against indecent Saudi floggings and beheadings. We have never produced democratic foreign policy, population control or sustained peace.  Now we are arresting people protesting publicly against Charlie, somewhat contradictory to say the least.  All that seems clear is that we are all Charleys, without much of a system to openly discuss what is wrong, leaving tyranny anywhere a threat to freedom everywhere.

[allan...@gmail.com]

Yes you are correct almost. The reason there is the on going problems is conservitive cowards that are afraid to stand up for anything just so the don't disturb their pitiful realities.
June 26 1963 the news headlines read. "Ich bin ein Berliner" the terrorism of soviet communism was stood up to.
Today i am called names cursed at .. if the attitude displayed by gabby was taken in 1963..  where would Gabby be.. would we even know her?
What am I listening to.
Incedently ww2 was cemented into action in 1919 with the treaty people were forced to sign that ended ww1..


تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

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[archytas]

I'm with the first line Allan.  I'd guess the correct German would be Ich bin Berliner rather than what JFK said.  I wouldn't use my time machine to go back and stop the guy to ensure we didn't have to 'put up with' Gabby.  Of course, if Gladstone had had his way, your Confederate sabre would have ended up on the winning side until the Brits, Russians and French took over and divided up the US.

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[Gabby]

Both forms are correct if I say them and both wrong if JFK had meant them non-politically. Ich bin Berliner translates I am (from/somehow connected to) Berlin, and Ich bin ein Berliner translates I am a Berliner.

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[Gabby]

I guess my father comes close to your understanding of conservative coward. He already was around in 1963 and is to blame to not have disturbed my pitiful reality later, according to your understanding of reality.

Actually I have seen him today. He disturbed my explaining my son how and why the Pegida people are stupid idiots by saying that most importantly they had no idea how it was after the war and how and by whom they had been helped. The German Volk. Not very helpful for my son's homework but very emotional and deeply anti-pegida on principle.

Can anyone else draw the Republican connection from France to the US to our Minds Eye policies? Tea anyone?

[allan...@gmail.com]

I doubt it gabby..  years ago it was part of my government job. We were a small interdepartmental team ..  it wasour job to intercept problems befoe the happened.. politics were no involved..  that was yesterday.. a long time ago..  now i amjust a grouchy old man .

It is not a war against religion  it is a war against terrorism. People do not want take the time to understand that. Pointing fingers and blaming others is the easy way out..  Political leadership and the military don't know how to fight a war..  what they know is how to waste funds and harm others.. to them sadly war is profitable, , they are very good at slight of hand tatics.

As for your son  try terrorism is trying to force your will on others..

[gabbydott]

Bravo Allan!
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All others except mum are idiots.

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[allan...@gmail.com]

Like your tag line gabby..

[archytas]

We wouldn't make that distinction in English.  I am Warringtonian or a Warringtonian could be held to have different meanings - the first perhaps a person reflecting Warrington, the latter just some poor sod unfortunate enough to be born or live in the dump.  Most of it makes that rabbit hutch you once put me in a desirable residence.  One couldn't distinguish the meaning on grammar - it would all be in tone.  Je suis charlie is beginning to feel as 'constructed' as the JFK myth to me.

[archytas]

I had you all wrong Gabby - there I was imagining you marching with Pegida!  Though this may not be as insulting as it first sounds, as they sound a bit like a charity for people with wooden legs to my ear.  I was sadly disappointed not to see them goose-stepping to the aid of those in wheelchairs.  What was crippled about them turned out to have nothing to do with their pegs.  I will have to take that picture of you with that little moustache I've been using as a dartboard down, now I know you ain't on their team.  Actually, I don't play darts, but everything is metaphor and metonymy.  I might like your dad.

'More tea, Vicar'?  Lovely to see you burst out with the 'stupid idiots' bit.  You may need instruction in non-commutative temporal geometry should you wish to change your parents and future-past.  Allan is already coming along rather well by working out we are not speaking Russian on the grounds of a disease-ridden drug and Marilyn addict (presumably responsible for the Monroe doctrine?) with a dodgy war record made heroic, making a speech in West Berlin.  How lucky we were that Americans voted for such a mythical being.  If they ever get our time machine they will probably breed Sara Palin with Barry Goldwater, on a night she wasn't under that basketball player of electoral liability hue.

[archytas]

Good Lord, peace reigns!

[facilitator]

Metonymy.  Just gave me my next sculpture title. (Me Tony My)  I am finishing up: "Also With You" , "All The Rage", and My triptych sculpture: "What Do" "It Means" "You Think".  I will post them when complete.

[Gabby]

Je suis un Charlie would marke the difference.

[archytas]

Look forward to the event.  Gabby may suggest monotony, Molly betony - I like cryptonym, tautonymy and astonying.  The latter is Greek (some warrior) and found in Chaucer.
This sodeyn cas this man astonied so,
That reed he wex, abayst, and al quaking.

[archytas]

Faraday gave a lecture in Warrington - but neglected to burn the town to the ground.  Otherwise my family might have stayed in Scotland and I would have had a vote to separate from England and the Queen.  Should the Queen die, we all get Charlied here.  My dad's dad, a union firebrand, never spoke a rational word and was Irish and mostly drunk.  He would have had no time for Peglegida either.  We are Scot's on Dad's mother's side and distantly Jewish on Mum's.

British cops have been armed with more tasers to combat the assault rifle threat.  Gabby's recent love-trust everyone will get cuddly if only you love yourself might be a more powerful military option.  Is it cheaper Gabbs?  That would convince the Tories.

[Chris Jenkins]

We humans have always had a terrible problem with calculating scale. We're utterly irrational and hopelessly subjective. Even when we attempt to shape our world view via humanism and logic, we fall prey to insidious prejudices few of us are able to even detect well. We think we're much smarter than we are, and it's only by growing older and expanding our time scope that we're capable of beginning to understand how limited our view always was the minute before. Most of us don't live long enough to ever really accomplish anything remotely like an objective view point. 

And so, we fear plane crashes, and not car crashes, despite the latter vastly outnumbering the former. We say "je suis charlie" for the 12, and pass by the thousands dead. We only care when the PR machine snaps a gorgeous tragedy and Buzzfeed includes it in "Top 5 Photos From World Conflicts: You won't believe number 4!".

When one person dies, it's a tragedy, but when a million people die it's a statistic. Stalin said that. Remarkable bit of insight from someone who created some notable statistics. 

We Americans are terrible with statistics. We're smart enough to know that they're a weapon to bludgeon the less Google savvy, and we pick and choose to suit our bigotry. Then once a year we pour ice water over our heads while hash tagging #Kony2012. Verily Babylon has fallen. 

Hello, Minds Eye. I've missed you. Neil's been commenting on my G+ posts, and it put me of a mind to come see how the group's been.

[archytas]

Probably the most sensible thing anyone has said here for ages Chris.  Scary!

[facilitator]

I agree Chris, "We are the larva teaching the larva how to fly" (™)

[allan...@gmail.com]

Tony  you are not a trademark..

تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

-----Original Message-----

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[Chris Jenkins]

Hmmm. I wonder whether "sensible", "cynical", and "disillusioned" are all vaguely synonyms.

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[Chris Jenkins]

I think perhaps with a minor adjustment of the quotes, that phrase is perfect:

We are the larva "teaching" the larva how to fly.

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[archytas]

We are more like amoeba or slime moulds.  Tony would admit this, if he thought the sculptures would sell.  There are times in their lifehistory that are not so unidimensional.  Smarter than humans in cooperative matters, they also don't but art or heroic literature.  No wonder they have us preparing the planet to be more suitable for themselves.

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[archytas]

You know, in the end Chris, Charlie gets right up one's nose ...

[archytas]

Rumours abound that the solidarity pic with all the worthies at the head of the main demo was false.  http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-01-17/truth-behind-cherlie-hebdo-solidarity-photo-op

The worthies were filmed separately and cut and pasted in.

[allan...@gmail.com]

My opinion of that.. not much more than a photo op.. good publicist at work.

The march it self was real high jacked by politicians.

تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <nwt...@gmail.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

[facilitator]

On Sunday, January 18, 2015 at 11:52:27 AM UTC-5, Allan Heretic wrote:

Tony  you are not a trademark..

 Really Allan?  There are so many larger battles to be won, is this one really the hill you want to die on?

I feel that if I have to explain it again I lose the moniker of being cryptically vague.

[allan...@gmail.com]

It is one battle you could get seriously hurt on especially financially. Someone could be in a pissed off mood and you could end up in an expensive court battle which you would lose.. at best you would get your hand slapped. .  Lawyers are very expensive  and best to avoid that battle..

 

تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

-----Original Message-----
From: "'facilitator' via \"Minds Eye\"" <mind...@googlegroups.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Mon, 19 Jan 2015 4:58 AM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: So what's wrong with je suis charlie?

Really Allan?  There are so many larger battles to be one, is this one really the hill you want to die on?

On Sunday, January 18, 2015 at 11:52:27 AM UTC-5, Allan Heretic wrote:

Tony  you are not a trademark..

I feel if I have to explain it again then I lose my moniker of being cryptically vague.

[facilitator]

One more time:  ™  equals the name "Trade Mark" it is not a trademark but denotes one.   Like a yield sign with the word "yield" on it does not mean "park here"

[allan...@gmail.com]

Do you have a trade make Tony? .. you understand it.. &  it is your nickel.  And lawyers are expensive  ..  incedently my art work is covered by trademark
It is not a monkey you want to tangle with..

[archytas]

It was the speed with which the worthy-creepoes took over the emotional moment that worries me - and the lack of real-time broadcast criticism or awareness of the historical context and the place of the shootings in what's going on in the rest of the world.

I hear that lightweight stuff on larvae from the lads - but ants are always at the root of the problem, perhaps in the pants of the larvae.  The Frogs, of course, are likely to be the pet poodles of a tarantula spider.

We are in a fascist situation, so my recommendation is we all read Mein Kampf - there's a good audio book on you tube.  Only a fool could listen to this and not look at television news or out of the window thinking "bugger".  It describes the situation we are now in.  Essentially, the masses are stupid, forget at the drop of a hat, can never do multi-faceted argument and have to be hit over and again with slogans and quasi-religious crap.  Look at the way our newsrooms have excluded the ugly, fat, disabled and sophisticated argument.  Newsrooms remind me of the brothel Simenon's wife described, waiting for Georges to come down, so she could tell him to choose another one.

Heidegger, himself atheist after a spat in a Jesuit seminary, said 'only a god can save us' and joined the Nazis.  We may need to bite the bullet and say 'only the end of religion  can save us'.  We have not even noticed what religion we need saving from.  It's called western imperialism.

The owners of Charlie Hebdo were conveniently away, two armed cops slacking and there seemed to be no fast action response team, properly designed road blocks or snipers who knew what they were doing.  Yet gawping journos told us the Hebdo attackers were using military tactics - bounding was mentioned several times and I saw none.  The whole thing is wide open to a massive criticism, much of which could have been real time.  I know many men who could have gone in, done the deed and escaped to commit further atrocities every other week.  Compare this with the troubles in Northern Ireland.  On a per capita basis the troubles would have meant 100,000 mainland UK deaths, 500,000 in the US.  Hebdo, for all its horror, was minor, partially skilled amateur stuff.

We should have and be turning out in millions to rid ourselves of neo-liberalism and not in any soppy way that doesn't recognise there are nasty, well armed people in other parts of the world too.