Welcome Sue Linda - and time 4 billion years on

[archytas]

Hi Sue Linda.  Feel free to join in.  We are a bit quiet at the moment, though sometimes manage to get ourselves going.

So what would the implications of time be 4 billion years on?

1. Would some archaeological historian be writing the relatively short history of an ape species with a deformed 24th chromosome pair, with evidence from the remains of a planet 'crisped' by its red giant star?

2. Could we 'travel' to the future if a species with 4 billion years more civilisation (now) happened along to colonise Mars and had a good neighbour intervention policy concerning 'primitives libidinising themselves to over-population and planet burning'?

3. Would even what we now think of as particles have developed 4 billion years on in the evolving universe?

4. How would anyone returning to the present explain her years with the advanced civilisation to we 'plebs'?

5. What of techniques of future profiling we have now and their role in imagining and bringing change - a classic is called 'science fiction prototyping' - imagine the social structure of the future to work out which products we should be working on now.

I'm particularly interested on how science fiction makes the future full of our present and traditions - an example to me of non-imagination writ large and entertainment as diversion from creative practical solutions.  Sci-fi mags are full of guidelines not to write this dross, but publish nothing else - chronic stuff like looking down at pot-holes with steel-toothed rats lurking at the bottom - standard fare on the walk home after a few beers.

Some might remember Wittgenstein used to imagine up tribes and how they would have to invent language - so we might understand the nature of language without the preconceptions of the stuff we use out of habit.  Imagine coming back here after years with a 4 billion year old civilisation where honesty is the best policy because there is a technological telepathy and trying to talk to others about it.

[allan...@gmail.com]

Welcome Sue to minds eye..  i believe things have guiet because of the happenings in Paris.  Neil is protected by a large moat without a drawbridge.

Actually yesterday's response is a fantastic notice to terrorist.  Not in my name -- I am Charlie.



تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

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[archytas]

The drawbridge is there - at the front.  You've been using the tradesmans' entrance at the side.

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[allan...@gmail.com]

Well that is what happens to a humble silversmith (not).. that is what happens when you are  not Scottish royalty. .

Side entrances arevgreat for entering unnoticed. .an excellent example is the fine gentleman that went in and visited the english gueen.. proof positive of... 

Welcome Sue.  Looking forward to hear what you have to say.
 (",)

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[archytas]

Are you calling me a Frenchman Allan?  The last Scottish royals were all French (Robert le Bruce to the Stewarts) and took over England too, before letting the Dutch and Germans take over.

[allan...@gmail.com]

Now I am really confused are you of picti decent or french?  Viva la France.. I know the Romans did not like them that is why they built the dividing wall in England..  and I always thought scotland was ruled or divided by clans.

Been involved with a lot of demonstrations and movements over the year..  Paris was totally different.

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[allan...@gmail.com]

After thought i was watching the news  .. the other demonstration are what the news can deal with and promote. As the can stand off with noses high in the air  ..  Paris demonstrations are againt terrorism. It was a memorial march to remember those killed and for the freedom of speech.

تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres
Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others

-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <nwt...@gmail.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 1:18 AM

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[archytas]

There were no Scots in 'Scotland' when the Romans came.

Erdogan (Turkey) was in Paris, then went home and blamed the killings on Mossad.

[archytas]

My view is we don't have freedom of expression and the media is in the way.

[allan...@gmail.com]

The fight for freedom is not new. Niether is the war on terrorism ..  those want to freedom will be free. Just how it will happen but it will.

Times are changing.  And what think no longer matters. Those in power well what do they know about reality. ..

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[Gabby]

Whose reality are you referring to, Allan? How does it contribute to welcoming Sue Linda? You have your granted advertising space for your sub-messages and you have started a Paris thread, but since there is no feedback traffic you hijack the next best thread for your purpose. And I tell you those in power know exactly about that reality.  

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[archytas]

Sue Linda may be gone.  I did sign her up within a few hours of application and click her off moderation.  Seems the inability to instant post puts most off.  Hence gassing with Al.  Seems the way of things.

[allan...@gmail.com]

To Sue Linda i hope you are reading and i was looking forward to reading your view point.
I apologise for Gabbies out burst, forgetting to greet you. She has a dislike for my sig line  and makes it well known.. so you understand. She told ud she was God's mom. The pains of child birth could be heard through out the universe with the intense pain turned Gabby into a natural grouch which has lasted for billion of years..
Hope you join us sincerely . There is always a internet pause that is no fault of ours bùt rather one of the US home land security desìre to coppy all the internet gabber..

[gabbydott]

Yep, the mind is secured. The 4 billion years time horizon I would pin down under "mans hubris".

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[andrew vecsey]

Allan. I once apologized for your hypocrisy and rudeness to a new member and you got very angry at me for speaking on your behalf. And now you did the same thing to Gabby. By painting Gabby in a negative light to a new member is not very nice. What happened to your old signature that stated "Do not hurt others"??  Hypocrisy and ignorance go very well together.  

[allan...@gmail.com]

Actually the change in the sig line is actually an evolution from within the group. And is an improvement that is why it changed or better yet evolved.. 
As for the other part of your comment
Have you taken the time to say hello to Sue Linda  or  like Jupitarian Gabby?

[gabbydott]

Thank you very much for speaking out once more, Andrew. As for the painting in negative light, I really think we need an update into the more dimensional world. I have seen so many if-only-those-m****f****-had-their-shadows-integrated paintings these days that I ask myself when we will be sold the cave equation as the latest 3D shit? Do no harm was better than all the succeeding do not&avoid others otherings - in the felt absence of external power the cavewall paintings become more and more alive to fill the vacuum. Wrong way Allan.

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[allan...@gmail.com]

Name calling and foul language is very becoming on you gabby. 
If you don't like the vacuum why noy try anf fill it with intelligent. original preferred. Rather than snarling venomous hatred.

I have had the privilege of examining native American friends. The information cave drawing convey is truely amazing if you know how to read them.. you should not mock another person's culture..

[archytas]

Gosh Gabby - that prose is an art work.  Only jealousy would have me assume it just badly translated German.  Some time back I found a novel in which Plato's cave had been discovered in Portugal and turned into a tourist attraction.  The Portuguese could write a dozen novels based on lines from your paragraph, all later mothered as Hollywood films pretending to be Indie.  I imagine Jupiter rather like NW England, only with more energy in the weather and less interminable prattle about it.  The red spot probably has nothing on you and Allan going at it hammer and tongue.  Just look what Rebecca Watson has done with being asked for a cup of coffee at 4 am in an elevator by Richard Dawkins.  Lacking an elevator with a coffee machine, could we start the commercial venture with my inappropriate expression of adoration here?  The others otherness can easily be dismissed as ignorant lack of reading and commitment to post-modernist feminism and both of us will soon be in the position to exploit markets as victims of each other with your 3-D gossip algorithm of hyper-text cave painting.

We could sex it up, for the inevitable action-flick, with a search for a miraculous Ark in competition with the FeminNaziInventors and Judith Butler doing a Lady Godiva cameo on a symbolic donkey saving the day in a boss fight with the Netherlander silversmith thought to be originating the world's grump.  Allan survives as we plan to make the sequel from bits on the cutting-room floor and the surprising popularity of your spats with him in the teen market.  Sales would rocket if we can get Dawkins to admit to God to pelvic thrusting gangster rap performed by porn-feminists (Club 90).

Seriously Gabby, and I am assured you don't think I am, have a look at this by Moreland -  http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&lr=&id=Ru7SBQAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PT13&dq=feminism&ots=DXTwndIRBZ&sig=xwcjBL6RYAFJv4HJeB1Mu5owRfU#v=onepage&q=feminism&f=false -

we can barely symbolise the absurdity, except, perhaps, by blaming Allan's sig line.

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[archytas]

Allan - on this form you would have fallen out with Socrates.  No harm in falling out with someone eating at a free table provided by slaves, of course.  I worked in factories where bad language was so inane even the odd mother would have been enlightening.  The people were still capable of great dignity and kindness.  We are too old for high horses - a cleaner may have polished the surface and we are no longer good at surviving falls to the hard floor beneath.  We are hardly je suis charlie if we can't defend Gabby's right to tease us with our lives.  Even if, returning bloodied and bruised, she will only tell us she can stand up for herself, and run off with a younger man or woman.  Accusing someone who can flick us off in several languages as lacking vocabulary ain't it either.

Gabby can be assured she could have my last cucumber sandwich, and will guess already I don't like them.  If she was serious, the tanks would already be parked on your lawn.  If you haven't got a lawn you know where to look.  The 'girl' has wit enough to know I use the particular word in tease and not from some chronic anti-feminist old-fart patronisation - though it might be provocation to surface attitudes.  What is unbecoming - a sophisticated woman swearing or old men telling her not to swear as though a child subject to reprimand?

Gabby does throw up some deep questioning on the root metaphors that restrict our argument to the banal and wheel-reinvention.  We don't get a lot of the references - as say we might not get what I have said about 'Elevatorgate' between Dawkins and Watson or references to ludicrous porn-feminism.  In je suis charlie, it is convenient from western root metaphors to see the grim killers as Islamist nutters rather than products of western imperialism and to raise free expression as the issue when we have little.  Writ large, did Germans "start" two world wars?  Most are not even capable of taking such as a question for investigation and are hostile to anyone who might seek a different truth than that indoctrinated.

I'd put it this way - offer Gabby an olive branch and she might take it off you and clout you round the head for presuming she was hostile in the first place.  This would not be real violence, just an invitation to discuss 'origin' and perhaps what a world less prone to immediate hostility might be. 

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[allan...@gmail.com]

.I fell out with Socrates eons ago..
Gabby's immaturity i have had to put up with worse.. 
Past is past..
Been known by many names.  Most of which is past and I like it that way it can stay buried ..  what I like about where I am is I am under the radar.
As for Gabby, and crew.  They are their own heroes nothing will ever change that.

[RP Singh]

The Sue Linda you are welcoming , I don't see her anywhere , where is Sue Linda?

[archytas]

i welcome new joiners to try and encourage them RP.  Problem seems to be that our moderation doesn't allow instant posting (to prevent excesses).  We've had about ten new members in the last months, but no posts from them.  I thought seeing their names might encourage, but it seems not.  Just us rearguard left, it seems.

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