organic life

[Allan H]

My single organic potato is growing quite in my pot Neil, How is your garden going.. it seems that the organic concept has great merit even though the organic substance  of the soul I do not understand its essence yet, I know I know that the totality of everything and beyond is all contained within the ying yang of the Allfather.
The physical part of the body ,, the only thing that in=s making any real sense to me is is but a shell (container) in which for the soul to function within this time reality. Duality can exist within time and non-time.  The only element of time that exist is the present,,  the past has become a record within non-time.
one of the questions that arise is just what is the essence of the Allfather. the organic essence is relatively easy ,, the other essence is  of the Allfather is another matter

Allan
A Living Soul

[Gabby]

That's absolutely correct, RP. A living Soul would not be conceivable without the Spirit operating - our gateway to understanding the Allfather.

[Allan H]

Very true it is all interconnected

Allan
A Living Soul

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[andrew vecsey]

The analogy I like is the following:
The body is like a computer hardware, the spirit is like the software operating system on the hardware that allows application programs to run, and the soul is like an application program that runs on the operating system on the hardware. All souls are different having a common spirit. It is the spirit that connects us all together. 

[Allan H]

If it works for you, but me I am not a computer program or application.

Allan H

A Living Soul


-----Original Message-----
From: andrew vecsey <andrew...@gmail.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, 19 Jul 2014 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye organic life

--

[Allan H]

Some thought I see very well lnline response.

Allan H
A Living Soul


-----Original Message-----
From: RP Singh <123...@gmail.com>
To: Minds Eye <mind...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye organic life

The one Spirit is the inner Being of all and actually it is that which sees and acts in all organisms , but the paradox is that all individuals apparently see and act independently and are in a state of separateness and confrontation with each other.

The above I agree with

 This puts the Spirit in an obviously separate position from all individuals and because of its omnipotence is worthy of respect , to be worshiped and prayed to.

The above I have problems with. Visual example. Our planet earth is part of our solar system. It is completely seperate but not independent of solar solar system, this applies in an inner and outward expansion.
Now the Allfather is the totality of everything and more.                                                               
Even though our real essence is the Spirit , it is separate from us and so instead of being called the Self it should be called God and our Father in Heaven.

Our real essence is spirit, if I compare a person to a bottle of wine. My body is nothing more than the bottle in which the soul ages and matures. This ageing and maturing process is determined by each souls interpitation of its guideline of 'do no harm'.
Even though we are all made of the essence of the Allfather, that doesn't make me God, maybe a sub microschopic part but defiantly not God.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Allan H]

I know English is not your native language,  but the word self does not fit.

SELF

pronunciation
• (IPA): /sɛlf/

pronoun
• (obsolete) Himself, herself, itself, themselves; that specific (person mentioned).

This argument was put forward by the defendant self.

• (commercial) Myself.

I made out a cheque, payable to self, which cheered me up somewhat.

noun (plural selvesselfs)
• The subject of one's own experience of phenomena: perception, emotions, thoughts...
• An individual person as the object of his own reflective consciousness (plural selves).
• (botany) A seedling produced by self-pollination (plural selfs).

translations (individual person as the object of his own reflective consciousness)
• French: soi-même
• German: Selbst
• Italian: stesso
• Russian: сам

verb
• (botany) To fertilise by the same individual; to self-fertilise or self-pollinate.
• (botany) To fertilise by the same strain; to inbreed.

antonyms
• outcross

adjective • (obsolete) same

SELF

noun • Surname


I also know people are terrible  at miss using words , as I read the definition i see that it fits in no manner even twisted.

People do compare themselves to be god and may even consider themselves god and say as much, unfortunately i am left wondering about the validity of their opinion.

Now there is a being that includes the totality of everything both time and non-time That to me is a no brainer.
Allan

A Living Soul


-----Original Message-----
From: RP Singh <123...@gmail.com>
To: Minds Eye <mind...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, 19 Jul 2014 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye organic life

It is not you who are God but the One Spirit inside all that is God. Some people call it the Self , maybe the higher Self but self none the less. I beg to differ as I find individuals to be separate and different , and hence the Spirit that is common to all is not the Self but God or as per you Allfather.

[Allan H]

There are a lot of books that I have not read.

The standard  english definitions of self just do not fit. Creating a problem because word usage is based off written meaning not a guess as to what they are saying. The idea is to understand what a person is saying, not guessing as to what they mean.

It is not your fault, that people are doing sloppy translations. The language center of my brain does not function as well as it could due to a medical condition so i become very reliant  on dictionary meanings to gain understanding,

The ancient books of the Hindu faith are not standard or normal reading  all though I did read part of the 1st book of the vedic (My nephew married a Hindi girl )  It was interesting but not my culture. It was very interesting.. but again a cultural thing without the back ground a lot of meaning is lost. I am not a fan of drugs.. that is me but there were a lot of drugs involved which automatically makes it even more difficult reading for me.

To create cross cultural understanding standard meanings have to be available. Lack of cultural understand and assumption of knowledge has to be one of greatest destroyers in the world . .

Allan
A Living Soul


-----Original Message-----
From: RP Singh <123...@gmail.com>
To: Minds Eye <mind...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, 19 Jul 2014 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye organic life

My English is better than my Hindi. I assume that you haven't read English translations of the Upanisads and the Bhagvadagita which explains your misconception about my command over the English language. The word Self is used throughout our ancient books.

[Molly]

I agree, Allan, that much understanding can be lost in translation.  The west does not seem to have the embedded notion of the "God in all of us" and the closest thing in Christianity might be the sacred heart of Christ, more the mystical meaning than fundamental.  Self, for us, implies separation and we have no way of embracing the unity within it, in concept anyway, without making the leap to the mystical.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[andrew vecsey]

I know that there are many long philosophical articles and discussions on "self" or the "ego" and all of the different interpretations it could be given. But any topic can be discussed and interpreted in as complex way that people chose to make it. And most like to make everything complex probably because it gives them a good self gratifying feeling that they know more than others. I believe that fundamentally the word "self" is the same for all people in all cultures unless they suffer from mental disease such as schizophrenia. As long as you can recognize yourself in the mirror, then you have the very same understanding of what "self" means as everyone else who can differentiate between themselves and someone else.

Another word for "self" is "me" or "I". It make us all individuals. That does not mean that we have no connection with one another. The connection is the feelings we have for each other, either love or hate. We are united by the commonality that we are all human beings and that we all have our own "selves" or bodies, minds and feelings. We are all of the same spirit - the human spirit, with capabilities and characteristics that we refer to as "human". Such as being curious, jealous, afraid, loving, hating, etc... There is nothing "mystical" or complicated in that.  

On Sunday, July 20, 2014 10:34:40 AM UTC+2, Molly wrote:

I agree, Allan, that much understanding can be lost in translation.  The west does not seem to have the embedded notion of the "God in all of us" and the closest thing in Christianity might be the sacred heart of Christ, more the mystical meaning than fundamental.  Self, for us, implies separation and we have no way of embracing the unity within it, in concept anyway, without making the leap to the mystical.

On Saturday, July 19, 2014 3:08:34 PM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:

[Allan H]

That self I understand. I recall someone telling me EGO is an acronym for Easing God Out.  lol

Allan
A Living Soul


-----Original Message-----

From: andrew vecsey <andrew...@gmail.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com

[facilitator]

There is the very real possibility that "Self" is all that exists and everyone (other) and everything is simply a perception.   We can not have awareness or consciousness of an "Others" perceptions.  

On Friday, July 18, 2014 2:35:15 PM UTC-4, RP Singh wrote:

The one Spirit is the inner Being of all and actually it is that which sees and acts in all organisms , but the paradox is that all individuals apparently see and act independently and are in a state of separateness and confrontation with each other. This puts the Spirit in an obviously separate position from all individuals and because of its omnipotence is worthy of respect , to be worshiped and prayed to.

Even though our real essence is the Spirit , it is separate from us and so instead of being called the Self it should be called God and our Father in Heaven.

On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 12:37 AM, Allan H <allan...@gmail.com> wrote:

--

[andrew vecsey]

Really? tell that to my wife.

[Molly]

Conversations that boil down to semantics can be interesting if we can agree to terminology and conceptual levels.  I see what you are saying, "Self" with a big S could mean the ever present awareness that is consciousness that unifies us, and this would be more along the lines of what RP refers to when he quotes the Vedas. Whether pronoun, adjective or noun, "self" in the English language refers to an individual or aspect of individual.  Self with a big S in my Merriam-Webster Unabridged Dictionary refers to Supreme self, which gives a capital S to self and is defined: 

b (1) or Self, Hinduism :  atman (2) Buddhism :  a dynamic unstable agglomerate of skandhas that in itself possesses no inherent substantiality or enduring quality and that continues in constant flux until final dissolution at death

The very nature of perception is an interesting one and boils down to the nature of reality, usually going back to the idea of consciousness.  I think it is all inclusive and all true, and the myriad aspects of experience, others, the organic nature of the earth and universe all integrate to the one pure consciousness. The one and the many.

[Allan H]

Merriam-Webster Unabridged Dictionary refers to Supreme self, which gives a capital S to self and is defined: 

b (1) or Self, Hinduism :  atman (2) Buddhism :  a dynamic unstable agglomerate of skandhas that in itself possesses no inherent substantiality or enduring quality and that continues in constant flux until final dissolution at death.

Thanks Molly, I do not all of the dictionaries, they would overwhelm both my phone and tablet.

What you said is very valid as the definition validates what RP was saying. Reflecting on my personal Merriam-Webster Unabridged Dictionary refers to Supreme self, which gives a capital S to self and is defined: 
b (1) or Self, Hinduism :  atman (2) Buddhism :  a dynamic unstable agglomerate of skandhas that in itself possesses no inherent substantiality or enduring quality and that continues in constant flux until final dissolution at death.

Thanks Molly, I do not all of the dictionaries, they would overwhelm both my phone and tablet.

What you said is very valid as the definition validates what RP was saying. Reflecting on my personal experience the definition fits. The understanding of God / Self is in a constant state of flux, when the Allfather become the major focus it becomes highly noticeable. Also what. Have discovered is there is no separation between Self and Self's creation.

Allan
A Living Soul


-----Original Message-----
From: Molly <moll...@gmail.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye organic life

[gabbydott]

Okay, the first round of our little what-have-we-forgotten-to-weed-out game goes to you, Tony. The pronounless fingerpointing of the existential Singularity of the "there is" clearly overtrumps the German "es gibt" and the French "il y a".  Molly upped the ante in the second round with reminding us of the love-hate relation of the Dualism of the One and the Many. Me+Myself+I would then like to be remembered for the Triangulation - with God in the center. Allan then again squared the issue with his smartphone/tablet.  

(As soon as we need two digits to continue, we will need your input again, Molly! Stay awake!)

We "take true" (perception) what has an "effect on us" (reality).

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/K0qaMEXnN0k/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

[Molly]

Well, I do not agree that reality is "what has an effect on us" but respect your perception of it.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[gabbydott]

In German we call reality Wirklichkeit. I have learned to agree to that convention.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

[andrew vecsey]

How do we know the difference between reality and a dream, or reality and an illusion? Easy... If you keep waking up to the same self, with the same strengths and weaknesses, with the same "others" and in the same place that you went to sleep and woke up, then that is your reality. If you dream one night that you are flying with Madonna in and another night that you are playing with the rolling stones, then clearly those are just dreams and/or illusions. Your reality is not what you are effected by, it is more what and who you effect. It is our home that we always return to until we die.  Those that live in their dreams and illusions are either under the influence of drugs or have mental problems and are ill and need to be taken care of.

[facilitator]

An organic mind knows no difference between reality and dreams.  These are simply terms for our perceptions.  Without getting into premonitions or Deja vu,  The organic mind simply takes input from our senses and delivers it to sections of the mind that process it.  Example:  everything we see with our eyes we see upside down, but the mind corrects that "reality" to make it an acceptable perception.  Also keep in thought that all of these perceptions are past or history.  Nothing can happen that isn't already past.  We call the now the present but the reality is it is already relegated to some past event.  Every word I write here I can only perceive after its actual occurrence.  It is an infinitesimal time delay but nevertheless history.   I think when we come to terms with our full "Self" we realize everything is a reality within a dream created by a god made in our image.   I don't want to listed with the arrogant who claim to know God's purpose in this convolution.

[Allan H]

Are you saying your mind can not tell the difference between reality and non reality?

Allan
A Living Soul


-----Original Message-----
From: "'facilitator' via \"Minds Eye\"" <mind...@googlegroups.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye organic life

[andrew vecsey]

The way to confirm if the input to our brain comes from our senses that senses "reality" or if that input is just signals coming from a signal generator like a movie is to interact with it. If we hear and see a piano being played, then there is no way to tell if the piano and the piano player are "real". If we play the piano ourself, then we can use our freedom to play whatever we like. Then we can be almost sure that it is reality, unless we just imagine or dream that we are playing the piano. Of course you can argue that our entire life of waking, dreaming and imagining is just an imagination or a very long dream. Then the only way to prove that it is "real" is to kill yourself. That is our ultimate freedom, the freedom to interact with our own life by ending it. Premonition, deja vu, intuitions and personal coincidences are proofs  that when we do kill ourselves or otherwise die, that our life will be proven to be a real experience.     

[facilitator]

I am saying that "The " mind relies on perception.  We use the terms reality and unreality to classify those perceptions.

[Allan H]

What you said is the organic mind can not separate the difference. If the organic mind can not separate reality from non reality you do not have the ability to classify your perceptions.
My soul does not have that problem. Because my soul controls my organic brain that problem does not exist. With out a soul you have a problem with separating realities.  

[Molly]

The interplay between mind and soul is an interesting topic, Allan.  Not many would entertain it.  I think there is much more to life than the mind can process, although we rely on mind to refine, analyze, classify, store our perceptions. It seems to me that our soul, although infinite, is also individual (unless you are referring to Soul.) Because it is individual it is still one step removed from the Self or Soul of God or whatever we want to label our collective life.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[facilitator]

That is true, the classification of perceptions becomes arbitrary.  Reality and unreality can all blend into waking and sleeping dreams.  What is your "Soul" Allen and where do you keep it?   How specifically does your soul control your organic brain?  Can your soul overcome your need to sleep?  Does your soul control your cravings?  I think the soul is a slave to the organic.

On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 2:10:24 PM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:

[facilitator]

Yes there is much more to life than the mind can process.  Very limited in its ability to even perceive outside of a very small spectrum of information that is constantly being sent out.  Imagine if your mind could pick up radio frequencies, or for that matter, messages being sent by other frequencies such as light.

What makes the soul "Infinite"?  I can possibly acquiesce to it being eternal since time doesn't really exist.

[Allan H]

You have a real problem as I do not think you know what you are saying, one moment you say there is time showing minor insight, this message you say that time doesn't exist.

The should contained within the physical body, more or less, but I have said that before. I read what you write you leave me wondering, but you are allowed to be you

[Allan H]

I am still working on the Hindu 'Self' concept .. Self and God can be interchangeable. The problem I have is the entirety of the universe(s) and beyond are created from the ¿essence? of God .. the difficulty I had is how do you separate the creator from his creation especially since the creation is made from his very being.
Need to shut down my tablet will write on the mind soul thing tomorrow.

[Allan H]

I know the internet between the mind and soul for most of the members is not an interesting topic.

How I arrived at that conclusion came from a change in perspective. A lot of the church (most religions) teachings regarding the soul do not make a lot of logical sense mostly pointing to earlier rambling trying to sound like they know what they're talking about.

Anyway, when I look at the spiritual concepts in which I agree and make sense requiring no proof, to me they're basically simple 1: the soul is real. 2: the soul is eternal. 3: the soul separates from the body at the time of death. Now these basic concepts have been floating around since pre neolithic times and are found in many belief systems.

Using these points as a starting point, I can begin . . Right and wrong most beliefs say you are rewarded for being good punished for being bad. Which is true. Being raised Catholic the church teaches the laws of God are written on the soul. I agree with that. As I read it that means the soul knows the difference between right and wrong. Now according to teachings if  your body kills another body your soul is going to go to hell.
That is not meant to make a lot of sense just to show a point.  Logically if the body and mind commit a crime then your body and mind go to jail. Which happens, jails are over flowing.

Here in lies the logical problem. If the mind controls the body and the mind/body commits murder and the poor soul is just dragged along for the ride ..  why should the soul be punished for something it did not do? Talk about an act of injustice, plain and simple. The soul being punished for the acts committed by the mind/body against it will because it knows better than violate God's laws. (Ri i ight)

As I see this problem, the soul is what knows the difference between right and wrong. To be spiritually and morally accountable it has to have control of the mind/body not the other way around.

To me it is simple logic, for the soul to be held accountable for the actions of the mind/body the soul to be in control.

[Molly]

I think Descarte did a nice job with the difference between soul and spirit.  Benedetto Croce came closest to my ideas on the subject, although I will admit I have not reviewed his Aesthetic in many years.  I think Allan is on to something, it has been done and redone over the eons and the best each of us can do is articulate it from our own view.  From my view, soul is the non-local interface between self and spirit.  Whereas  spirit (God) is our final integration, soul, like mind and ego, has its function that can be integrated and transcended with what the Christian mythology calls the ascension, or posit in non duality.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Allan H]

I am sure the topic has been covered many many times in the past  with writers far more intelligent than I am. And there is as many views as there are souls. My question is do we get lost in nit picking words.

SPIRIT

pronunciation
• (IPA): /ˈspɪɹɪt/
• (IPA): /ˈspiɹɪt/

noun (plural spirits)
• The undying essence of a human. The soul.
• A supernatural being, often but not exclusively without physical form; ghost, fairy, angel.
• Enthusiasm.
• The manner or style of something.
• (usually) A volatile liquid, such as alcohol. The plural form spirits is a generic term for distilled alcoholic beverages.
• Energy.

translations (soul)
• French: esprit
• German: Geist, Seele
• Italian: spirito
• Portuguese: espírito
• Russian: душа
• Spanish: espíritu, alma

translations (supernatural being)
• French: esprit
• German: Geist
• Italian: spirito
• Portuguese: espírito
• Russian: привидение
• Spanish: espíritu

translations (enthusiasm)
• French: esprit, moral
• Italian: spirito
• Russian: дух
• Spanish: espíritu

translations (manner or style)
• French: élan, esprit
• Italian: spirito

translations (alcohol)
• French: spiritueux
• German: Schnaps, (slang) Sprit, Alkohol
• Italian: spirito
• Portuguese: álcool
• Russian: алкоголь
• Spanish: alcohol, bebida espirituosa

verb • To carry off, especially in haste, secrecy, or mystery.

SPIRIT

noun
• The Holy Spirit: in Christian theology, the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity, the three aspects of God.
• The name given to a Mars exploration rover launched June 10, 2003. See Wikipedia's article.

translations (a Mars exploration rover) • Russian: Спирит

~~~~~

SOUL

pronunciation
• (IPA): /səʊl/
• (IPA): /soʊl/

noun (plural souls)
• (religion) The spirit or essence of a person usually thought to consist of one's thoughts and personality. Often believed to live on after the person's death.
• The spirit or essence of anything.
• Life, energy, vigor.
• (music) Soul music.
• A person, especially as one among many.
• An individual life.


• (seeCites)

translations (the spirit or essence of a person that is believed to live on after the person's death)
• French: âme
• German: Seele
• Italian: anima
• Portuguese: alma
• Russian: душа
• Spanish: alma

translations (life, energy, vigour)
• French: âme
• Russian: душа

translations (soul music)
• French: soul
• German: Soul
• Russian: соул

translations (person, especially as one among many)
• French: âme

verb
• (obsolete) To endue with a soul; to furnish with a soul or mind.

verb • (obsolete) To afford suitable sustenance.

~~~~
 I am apologizing for the definitions, i am having trouble seeing the differences between soul and spirit.
 
This is a minor problem I have with my epilepsy being in the language center of my organic brain. I need to keep my language simple and not complex so I can truly understand what I am saying. What I have found is that when I try to gear my language so that it understood even by a child then everyone can understand it.  It seems people writing about spirituality use far to many words to say little and that includes me.

Is the idea to clarify a thought or put people to sleep by saying much about nothing in order to appear that we understand what we are talking. then the question comes from digesting material written by others, A rehash of old ideas  or is it coming from personal experience?

What gives value to an idea?

[facilitator]

Experience gives value to an idea.  A person with an argument is seldom at the mercy of a person with an experience.

[andrew vecsey]

Being "one with god" should be more a positive thing, like gaining, than a negative thing, like losing. That would make becoming one with god not losing your identity, but rather sharing your identity with all other souls and at the same time gaining the identity of all the other souls.

On Wednesday, July 23, 2014 6:30:52 PM UTC+2, RP Singh wrote:

....Hindus say that after many births a soul realizes its true nature and becomes one with God , that is, it loses its identity....

[Molly]

I don't see why the many would get lost in the one.  I see it more as included and integrated.  The paradox of the one and the many is that they are expressed as one.

On Wednesday, July 23, 2014 12:30:52 PM UTC-4, RP Singh wrote:

Soul is an entity in a body and are as many as there are human bodies , that is , each human has a soul existing separately from other souls. There are infinite no. of souls, but The Spirit is one and the inner being of all.

The question arises is that are souls immortal or do they cease to be. Christian and Muslims say that souls are immortal and live ever after with God but are separate from Him. Hindus say that after many births a soul realizes its true nature and becomes one with God , that is, it loses its identity.

But the fact is that there are no souls , only biological organisms and the living spark in them is a proof of the existence of Spirit. And Spirit being unborn and indestructible continues to shine whereas its manifestations come and cease to be.

[Molly]

I said to the night, “If you are in love with the moon, it is because you never stay for long.” The night turned to me and said, “It is not my fault. I never see the Sun, how can I know that love is endless?”

~ Rumi

[Richard Blay]

I hope you are all doing well, my friends afar. I've been a passive member for some time now by just reading your well thought written posts. I should say I've been (and still) learning from you.

I might be young but I've gotten to know that the body is a container (if I'm right), and the soul or spirit or both is the item the body contains.
And if we are made in the image of God then what is that image, is it the soul or the spirit? because per your views, the soul is separate from the spirit.

>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/K0qaMEXnN0k/unsubscribe.

>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

[facilitator]

Hi Mando !

Technically we are not created in the image of God.  The story points to Adam (being both male and female at the same time)  (Androgynous) was created in God's Image and Likeness.  Currently we would be a far cry from that.

Regards,

Tony

[Allan H]

You are right Richard the body is but a container for the soul. Even in ancient times bodies were cremated to release the soul from its body. The soul is of great importance and the body is what allows the soul to function and develop in this reality,
Spiritual development is what this life is all about,

[Molly]

and yet, part of that spiritual development is mastery of the body and mind.

>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/K0qaMEXnN0k/unsubscribe.

>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.

>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.

>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.

>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.

>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>>
> --
>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.

> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Allan H]

If you master your soul you will have mastered both your body and mind. Why have not included your soul in the spiritual mastery problem?

[Molly]

As you know, from my view, once the leap to non dual is made, soul steps out of the way for a direct relationship with spirit.  A good analogy would be the maturing of the ego.  After feeding the ego is no longer important, it steps aside for the higher functions of the mind, yet continues as a background operating system with the organization of our personality in place.

I've done quite a bit of soul searching in my time.  Past life regression under the guidance of the Brian Weiss group.  Studied shamanism under the Harners and their Foundation for Shamanic Studies for a bit.  I found that once I let go of "cause and effect" as a basis of experience, which is steeped in duality, my experience transformed.  I think at this point, we are no longer bound to karmic laws.  I can also respect people who base their lives on them.  I studied a bit of Rudolph Steiner's Theosophy and found a group of his students in Switzerland who based all of their actions on what effect it would have on their karma because they believed this would give them some control over what their next life would be.  While I found it interesting that people would do this, I never bought into it because at that point, I knew a greater dynamic to life.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Molly]

"Eternity is not a long time; rather, it is another dimension. It is that dimension to which time-thinking shuts us. And so there never was a creation. Rather, there is a continuous creating going on. This energy is pouring into every cell of our being right now, every board and brick of the buildings we sit in, every grain of sand and wisp of wind."

Joseph Campbell, Myths of Light

[Allan H]

Okay Molly, these school you attended, where did they get their validation from? What little I read on the internet they are selling a bill of goods. That leaves me wondering their qualifications.
Yes there is enlightenment that comes from books, it is an extremely valid and hard earned.

Parrot my problems come from the truth that in the spiritual realm every generation has it's prophets and false prophets , its teachers and false teachers .. in today's world of self promotion the is a real problem.
 
Now the medicine men I meet (all male) while doing volunteer work in Gallup NM.  What I noticed is they preferred not to deal with non tribe members. They never really shared information except its each other. Also there was never charge, invitation only. I only met them because I purchased some artifacts from a native lady who was not supposed to have them. I paid a small amount for them, I returned them when they were requested. They were very interesting men, they also stood up for me the time I was called on the carpet. I knew them as friends.

I do not think I have every really done any soul searching, most of what I experienced was involuntary, the only difference between fasting and starvation is a state of mind.

[Molly]

I looked into these aspects of soul with these people not for accreditation but for genuine experience, and both groups offered me insight.  If this does not seem valid to you it may be because it was not your experience.  I didn't do it to prove anything and rarely talk about it, even at the time it was going on.  I have learned over time to keep to myself what others may not understand.

I know my soul to be real.  I have learned the symbols and signs of its guidance in my life.  There is real value there.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Molly]

what tangible form does mind have?  If you equate brain with mind, I disagree.

On Thursday, July 24, 2014 12:59:55 PM UTC-4, RP Singh wrote:

You can master your body or mind because they are there before you , but how do you master your soul? soul is intangible and has no shape and form , so how do you master it? First try and explain how the soul is different from body and mind , try to delineate its concrete aspects, its attributes which you will master.

[Allan H]

I can understand not talking directly about experiences as many people do not understand, with friend including you I do not mind sharing.

Experiences are very valuable, giving insights not normally found. I have been fortunate as for the church I have been treated with respect, asked a lot of questions and expected to provide the answers. :-) formal inquests are not fun but interesting, I also learned a lot about myself which was interesting, but it takes a lot of silence.

Allan
A Living Soul

[Molly]

You are entitle to your view.  I do not agree.  I think brain provides the biochemical response in the body of mind, and mind is so much more.

On Thursday, July 24, 2014 2:46:03 PM UTC-4, RP Singh wrote:

All sense objects , thoughts and feelings arise in the brain and mind is just the psychological aspect of the brain. The 'self-sense' finds its awareness in the brain and all actions are undertaken by the ' I ' because of, and through the brain.

[Molly]

I completely agree with your there, Allan. It takes a whole lot of silence.

[Allan H]

When you die you your soul goes through the famous resurrection where you see your dharma facing your karma. Oddly I personally know no signs or symbols other than the one I have created for myself. In that line I have nothing to share. That is not totally true because I have created amulets to help friends though hard and difficult times.
:-) but I do not think you are in need of one.

[Allan H]

One has many organs to 'listen' with to speak only one.
Silence is necessary.
Large singing bowls are great for clearing cobwebs. :-)
 
Allan
A Living Soul

[Allan H]

Becoming one with God is losing your individuality. You cannot eat your cake and have it to.

How do you arrive at this conclusion RP?

Allan
A Living Soul

[Allan H]

That is a statement, but not growth arrived st your conclusion. You are entitled to your view and some what you have said lately. I am trying to understand.

Allan
A Living Soul

[andrew vecsey]

Hi Mando. I look at it this way.... We are created in the image of god in the same way that an application program is written to be compatible to a specific computer operating system. We (our individual souls) are compatible with god being able to work together with god and all the other souls that are also compatible. In that sense, the body can be compared to the hardware of a computer, the souls to application programs, and the spirit to the operating system that allows application software to run.  So in that sense, the image of god is the spirit.

[Molly]

You and I are one in spirit, RP, and yet we are individual.

On Thursday, July 24, 2014 3:50:21 PM UTC-4, RP Singh wrote:

Of course, if you believe that infinite no. of souls will live with God in eternity that is your view and it is just a viewpoint with nothing concrete to substantiate it.

I arrive at my conclusions because to me that is the logical conclusion after much thought and observation.

[andrew vecsey]

That is a good analogy. When our body dies, we go back home and when we want or need a new life experience, we get born into a new body and we grow a new soul. What happens to our old soul and all that it has experienced and learned?. We share it.  You might say it gets archived like a book or movie in a library.

On Friday, July 25, 2014 1:39:41 PM UTC+2, RP Singh wrote:

Spirit is the ocean and the individuals are the bubbles that arise and vanish back into the ocean. Their identity is for the time being only and the reality that is the ocean is forever.

[Allan H]

I understand what you are saying RP it is very clear and I respect that. What I do not understand is how you arrive at that conclusion.

I know we are on the same planet, but I am sure we operate from two totally different perspectives.

Allan
A Living Soul


-----Original Message-----
From: RP Singh <123...@gmail.com>
To: Minds Eye <mind...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye organic life

Spirit is the ocean and the individuals are the bubbles that arise and vanish back into the ocean. Their identity is for the time being only and the reality that is the ocean is forever.

On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 4:46 PM, Molly <moll...@gmail.com> wrote:

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

[Molly]

So you see yourself as apart and separate from spirit, yet in spirit?

On Friday, July 25, 2014 7:39:41 AM UTC-4, RP Singh wrote:

Spirit is the ocean and the individuals are the bubbles that arise and vanish back into the ocean. Their identity is for the time being only and the reality that is the ocean is forever.

On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 4:46 PM, Molly <moll...@gmail.com> wrote:

[facilitator]

I have trouble with this concept since it offers that the good and the evil flow together with no differentiation between the two.

On Friday, July 25, 2014 7:39:41 AM UTC-4, RP Singh wrote:

Spirit is the ocean and the individuals are the bubbles that arise and vanish back into the ocean. Their identity is for the time being only and the reality that is the ocean is forever.

On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 4:46 PM, Molly <moll...@gmail.com> wrote:

You and I are one in spirit, RP, and yet we are individual.

On Thursday, July 24, 2014 3:50:21 PM UTC-4, RP Singh wrote:

Of course, if you believe that infinite no. of souls will live with God in eternity that is your view and it is just a viewpoint with nothing concrete to substantiate it.

I arrive at my conclusions because to me that is the logical conclusion after much thought and observation.

On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 1:04 AM, Allan H <allan...@gmail.com> wrote:

Becoming one with God is losing your individuality. You cannot eat your cake and have it to.

How do you arrive at this conclusion RP?

Allan
A Living Soul

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

[Molly]

the leap from duality to non duality

[facilitator]

I reject that hypothesis since sometimes the good is punished and the bad is rewarded.

On Friday, July 25, 2014 12:35:35 PM UTC-4, RP Singh wrote:

The good and bad is learned in this world and rewarded or punished here only, in the next you lose your separate identity and become one with the Spirit.

[Molly]

That doesn't explain the luck of the Irish.

On Friday, July 25, 2014 1:20:20 PM UTC-4, RP Singh wrote:

The bad who escape punishment are lucky and the good who are not rewarded are unlucky , it is God who has given you luck and it has not been earned by you.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Molly]

I gave up on the notion of a punitive God a long time ago.

[Allan H]

What you said Molly is actually true. Example: each planet is totally separate from each other and at the same time they create solar system.  That is a simple visualization.

Allan
A Living Soul


-----Original Message-----
From: Molly <moll...@gmail.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye organic life

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

[Allan H]

Nothing is neither right or wrong but thinking that makes it so.

Your rejection Tony does not change the truth.. philosophy is probably one of the most complex topic there is.

Allan
A Living Soul


-----Original Message-----
From: "'facilitator' via \"Minds Eye\"" <mind...@googlegroups.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye organic life

[Allan H]

Luck of the Irish :-) they have the knack of belief.

Why should God punish anyone? All souls know the guideline if Do No Harm. How each soul interprets that simple guideline in its personal dharma will determine ts place in the mandela.

Allan
A Living Soul


-----Original Message-----
From: Molly <moll...@gmail.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye organic life

[Molly]

I can agree that our moral code, system of beliefs, and our self concept shape our experience. I think that mechanism is more complex than a simple good are rewarded and bad are punished.  The mechanism is complex because we as individuals are complex, and, as a collective are even more complex.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Allan H]

Life used to be complex then I learned to follow the acronym  K.I.S.S.   :-)

[facilitator]

With due respect, to say that there is some sort of order to the universe but then fill in the anomalies with something called "Luck" is incongruous.

On Friday, July 25, 2014 1:20:20 PM UTC-4, RP Singh wrote:

The bad who escape punishment are lucky and the good who are not rewarded are unlucky , it is God who has given you luck and it has not been earned by you.

[andrew vecsey]

I agree. For all our actions, good or bad, we get a consequence that we experience and learn from. Our rewards and punishments for our actions can be short term or long term.

[andrew vecsey]

I think that being lucky or unlucky is a proof that we are being guided from spirits (dead souls). Usually they want to help us and they give us intuitions that we are free to follow or not. Sometimes experiencing bad luck turns out to be in the long term good luck. At other times, the reverse is true.  

On Saturday, July 26, 2014 7:18:34 AM UTC+2, RP Singh wrote:

Some are born lucky and some unlucky , you can see it around you if you care to look; why God has made it so is known only to Him.

[allan...@gmail.com]

Good then have no luck at all as you wish

Living Soul

-----Original Message-----
From: "'facilitator' via \"Minds Eye\"" <mind...@googlegroups.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye organic life

[Molly]

“The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of true art and true science. Whoever does not know it and can no longer wonder, no longer marvel, is as good as dead, and his eyes are dimmed. It was the experience of mystery — even if mixed with fear — that engendered religion. A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, our perceptions of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which only in their most primitive forms are accessible to our minds: it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute true religiosity. In this sense, and only this sense, I am a deeply religious man… I am satisfied with the mystery of life’s eternity and with a knowledge, a sense, of the marvelous structure of existence — as well as the humble attempt to understand even a tiny portion of the Reason that manifests itself in nature.” – Albert Einstein, The World As I See It, 1931

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Allan]

;o)

Allan
Living Soul

-----Original Message-----
From: RP Singh <123...@gmail.com>
To: Minds Eye <mind...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 17:47
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye organic life

Understanding Reason in the universe is a never ending process because I personally feel that man will keep on achieving new horizons till the very disintegration of this universe.

[Allan]

Have been pondering what you were saying,  as you you become aware of God your own importance diminishes .

Allan
Living Soul

-----Original Message-----
From: RP Singh <123...@gmail.com>
To: Minds Eye <mind...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, 26 Jul 2014 17:47

Subject: Re: Mind's Eye organic life

Understanding Reason in the universe is a never ending process because I personally feel that man will keep on achieving new horizons till the very disintegration of this universe.

On Sat, Jul 26, 2014 at 5:33 PM, Molly <moll...@gmail.com> wrote: