"A wise man once said."

[facilitator]

I had an opportunity recently to have some of my sayings dissected at an art venue.  (Some of you are aware I am an artist. Sculpture and the like.)  On some of these sculptures I put encryptions or quotations.  I thought I would give it a go here and have them open to rebuttal, critique, agreement etcetera.

Have at it!

"Beauty is not in the eye of the beholder but in the eye of the imaginative"  

[Molly]

Did you mean to leave a link?

[facilitator]

No.  I was asking for feedback or points of view on the quotation.

On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 6:17:23 PM UTC-4, Molly wrote:

Did you mean to leave a link?

[Molly]

Oh I see, I was hoping to see the sculpture! Well, it seems catchy, but what if the beholder is imaginative?  Seriously, I think that imagination forms our experience, and is an all important mental activity.

[Gabby]

Very cool, Molly! Creationists and tax evading spoilt brats have been using the same strategy to artsify our run down areas. After that the housing prices will go up again. Don't worry Molly. On TV I've been seeing that business model operating in Detroit as well. When you compared the city of Detroit to the rotten country Germany in the trust thread, I could virtually sense how you mash up different images of different areas and time periods and blow them out of any proportion to create that pink bubbly feeling that makes feel so much more connected to the real life, in which your pureness and goodness outshines all the ugliness around you.... haha, sorry, I find you very funny when you go serious, Molly. ;)

[Molly]

I find you funny all the time Gabby.  You never fail to amuse.

[Don Johnson]

So if the beholder is looking at, say, Janet Reno and sees a beautiful woman then he's imaginative? I'd call it delusional. Reminds me of that kid with the imaginary friend. Total goofball weirdo but "he had a wonderful imagination." Probably thinks Janet Reno is a fox and Jenifer Gardner is a dog. 

Unimaginative people may still recognize their own version of beauty. For instance, a red headed freckle-faced girl with green eyes and a pert nose makes my mouth water but grosses out folks with ginger issues. Each to his own, I guess. 

We were talking about women, right?

dj

  

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Allan]

Don, i try to keep my knuckles from dragging on the ground and keep my tongue in my mouth.

Allan
Living Soul

[Molly]

Our imagination does have much to do with how we see people and our world, I think.  People in love see things much differently because they can imagine that love in everything they see. Visionaries can realize what they envision no matter how impossible it might seem to the rest of us.  The creative spark is much the same and allows artists to see what others cannot until inspired by the artwork.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[facilitator]

Sometimes it takes imagination to see beauty where others only see the ugly.  It is the ability to look beyond our physical sense and enter that magical world!

On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 10:57:22 AM UTC-4, facilitator wrote:

[Molly]

From my view, the artist and the art bring others to a more integrated, creative sense of self, transcendent of reason or logic.  Magic connotes the primitive aspects of man whereas for me, being led to my higher nature is an important aspect of beauty.  But the difference might just be semantic. 

[facilitator]

Interesting.  Art can have that effect, although for me personally, I am ambivalent to what it does for the viewer other than instruct the viewer to think beyond themselves.

[archytas]

My best mark in art was bottom equal.  I share Don's view on eye evasion of the Hydra, though don't hold much with 'looks'.  Memory and imagination are linked and we get both wrong as part of some future thinking, a kind of fragmentation thingy.  We tend to like looking at representations of our own genes once reproductive circuits are engaged  Horizontal exercise brain chemistry more or less allows time travel in terms of what one can see.  I usually see art 'sober'.  A world that still had about the same number of people in it as when I was born might have seen beyond itself.  Much presented as 'pretty' (like newsrooms) makes me sick.  I have good memories of art galleries like playing with kids and their dog in the grounds outside.  Old firearms' officers like me tend to express the kill shot (taken or not) as 'a lovely view'.  My imagination is almost entirely non-visual.  Anything that breaks the gaze, like wheelchairs rolling across newsrooms to remind us what has been excluded or phrases like 'Absolut Vodka, absolute impotence' might break the trance.  My dog when he glances back laughing on a walk.

[archytas]

On might put that the other way round too.  Much 'higher nature' is no such thing and just camouflage of the base.

[Molly]

Do agree that much that is presented as beautiful and received as popular is just a reflection of what speaks to the herd. Spin has become all important in presentation it seems, down to daily conversations in what I have heard you refer to as polite-.ese.  Not sure any of that is transcendent, as it all continues to separate instead of unite. Also agree that your dog's smile is more to the core of it if that is what brings you there.

[archytas]

Indeed Molly.  Given art's connections with so much elite nonsense and 'culture show' donkeys I'm not sure it does much to break us into different appreciation.  !000 channels and nothing to watch may apply.  I am struck that artists might be able to help us hear and see politics and manners in a more imaginative way, almost as a functioning BS metre might.  Hard to know whether one is looking at an original or a copy though.  The technical detail in painting (personally useless) strikes me as a bit similar to modern spin in that we get an image without seeing how it is built.  The Great Masters used to claim they could turn a camel into a technical artist.  

[facilitator]

Here is the next item up for discussion if any so willing:

"Fame is not accrued but left to collective perception".

On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 10:57:22 AM UTC-4, facilitator wrote:

[Molly]

That would certainly explain the celebrity of people like Anna Nichole Smith.

[Allan]

Today fame is who has the best marketing people. There is a herd mentality and marketing uses that to the max. Results I see society in retrograde.
Fortunately I also see the beginnings of a new age, sorry Tony I do not see your type of saying as part of the vision,  but as the saying goes, " I know nothing.. Nothing!"

Allan
Living Soul

-----Original Message-----

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

[Molly]

Colonel Klink!

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Gabby]

I see you are leading our dream team back to trance state, which is very much appreciated. Just the right amount of agreed disconformaty to label it #disruptive. The avatar musings made it very clear how little is understood about the implications of not idolizing the golden calf, to speak in/to the default authoratative hearing pattern. Not idolizing in that context means not fixating (gold) the calf and thereby feeding the wise old man system, but allow for the calf to go its own evolunionary path. Power and control are real issues here.

[Gabby]

Please excuse my mistakes, I can't find the edit button, sorry. Just think it perfect. ;)

[Allan]

Well Gabby, the Avatar is not the movie which is a dream like state. The Avatar we are talking about is a Hindu concept. Two people of whom you know that fit within the category of Avatar are Jesus and Buddha.

As for the Golden Calf. Gabby you are the one who brought the concept to the group originally. As for worshipping it , , , there are entire papers dedicated to its worship being a US expat one such paper that pops to mind is the Wall Street Journal. There are the high priests (stock brokers) that sing the psalms of high praise..  Oh yes one more little thing on wall street  there is the symbol that represents unabashed worship of wealth that being the raging stock market bronze bull.
Now bronze is a form of brass. Now remove the outer patina a little polishing and you can have it gleaming like GOLD!
 You are right Gabby the culture of the Golden Calf is raging through our societies. Anything is okay if it is for Gold (money).
Do I need to go on?

Allan
Living Soul

-----Original Message-----
From: Gabby <gabb...@gmail.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 9:34 AM
Subject: Mind's Eye Re: "A wise man once said."

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

[gabbydott]

Not for me. I hear your barking loud and and clear.

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/JaQa8KNDeo0/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

[Allan]

Right show but it was the guard,  ;o)

Allan
Living Soul

-----Original Message-----

From: Molly <moll...@gmail.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

[archytas]

The idea of anything being left to collective perception seems a road block to me.  'Moulded in' seems nearer the mark.  

On Sunday, 14 September 2014 11:52:21 UTC+1, Gabby wrote:

Not for me. I hear your barking loud and and clear.

Am Sonntag, 14. September 2014 schrieb Allan :

Well Gabby, the Avatar is not the movie which is a dream like state. The Avatar we are talking about is a Hindu concept. Two people of whom you know that fit within the category of Avatar are Jesus and Buddha.

As for the Golden Calf. Gabby you are the one who brought the concept to the group originally. As for worshipping it , , , there are entire papers dedicated to its worship being a US expat one such paper that pops to mind is the Wall Street Journal. There are the high priests (stock brokers) that sing the psalms of high praise..  Oh yes one more little thing on wall street  there is the symbol that represents unabashed worship of wealth that being the raging stock market bronze bull.
Now bronze is a form of brass. Now remove the outer patina a little polishing and you can have it gleaming like GOLD!
 You are right Gabby the culture of the Golden Calf is raging through our societies. Anything is okay if it is for Gold (money).
Do I need to go on?

Allan
Living Soul

-----Original Message-----
From: Gabby <gabb...@gmail.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 9:34 AM
Subject: Mind's Eye Re: "A wise man once said."

I see you are leading our dream team back to trance state, which is very much appreciated. Just the right amount of agreed disconformaty to label it #disruptive. The avatar musings made it very clear how little is understood about the implications of not idolizing the golden calf, to speak in/to the default authoratative hearing pattern. Not idolizing in that context means not fixating (gold) the calf and thereby feeding the wise old man system, but allow for the calf to go its own evolunionary path. Power and control are real issues here.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/JaQa8KNDeo0/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[archytas]

Barking, amongst these pussycats Gabs?  Even Max's ears are unaffected here.  Allan is back in the millennial chiliad tautology again is all, titling his lance in the avatarial lists.  In the meantime, those of us who hoped to cash in our 15 minutes of fame have found we were sold a pup.  Pups yap. 

[Allan]

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

[gabbydott]

Yep, still on my mental to do list to check why we call fool's gold cat's gold.

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/JaQa8KNDeo0/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

[Gabby]

Homework done. Cat's Gold etymologically was the Heretic's Gold. Match. Unmouldable - the main distinction marker. I guess you take that as a compliment.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[archytas]

Ms Tidulz says she has no gold and just looks at her claws when I suggest she should be replaced with a golden goose.  Perhaps one needs a heretic cat?  Do artists have some knack in spotting the drivel we 'all' want?

[Allan]

[facilitator]

I don't think artists do, otherwise the term "starving artist" would be applied less frequently.

[archytas]

I agree Facil - though some definition of artist is required.  What is this 'art' not part of 1000 channels with nothing on except the simulacrum of drivel, generally funded by advertising?  I might point to Maxwell (perhaps both the great scientist and my dog) and Einstein.  I've long wondered about art and people-community development - I'm floored by people using dance to work with disabled kids (as an example).  Brian Bevan (rugby leaugue's record try scorer) was a work of art in action.  Gabby might be see as such in another form of side-step.  Not all art brings much reward.  Allan and Andrew have a go, sometimes not at each other.  Molly has often touched me deeply, even if so much of my experience has been 'dark side'.  The chocolate box picture isn't art unless a child is smiling.

Art may have some function in revealing such as 'change is the same thing' and the depravity of political words, the 'lie that tells us the truth' sort of stuff - but does the 'pipe' have to be painted by Magritte?   One confronts this picture doing systems analysis - modelling the reality is not modelling the rhetoric.

[Molly]

art that is beautiful, art meant to disturb, art that pushes the technical limits previously established, art constructed not to last like chalk on sidewalks or sand sculptures on beaches - art comes in many forms and can be as simple as a concept in Haiku or complicated as Mt. Rushmore. This age old question, will it always be asked and answered? It does provide a platform for good dialogue and self exploration.

[Gabby Thiede]

I would prefer you excised your moderation job in a more unartistic, less biased way and took your responsibility as group owner more serious. But it seems this is only my preference.

 

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/JaQa8KNDeo0/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

[Allan]

Molly and Neil do an excellent job as moderators. I would like to give both of them a long heartfelt ovation for putting up with the likes of me and you Gabby.
Thank you  Molly & Neil for a job well done. 

Allan
Living Soul

-----Original Message-----
From: Gabby Thiede <gabb...@gmail.com>
To: "mind...@googlegroups.com" <mind...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: "A wise man once said."

--

---

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

[Molly]

Picking on each other seems irresistible at times. It is no substitute for dialogue. Not sure what purpose it serves.  Maybe none. Maybe some kind of personal satisfaction. I try to stay out of it.  Life goes on.

On Friday, September 19, 2014 10:05:30 AM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote:

Molly and Neil do an excellent job as moderators. I would like to give both of them a long heartfelt ovation for putting up with the likes of me and you Gabby.
Thank you  Molly & Neil for a job well done. 

Allan
Living Soul

-----Original Message-----
From: Gabby Thiede <gabb...@gmail.com>
To: "mind...@googlegroups.com" <mind...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: "A wise man once said."

I would prefer you excised your moderation job in a more unartistic, less biased way and took your responsibility as group owner more serious. But it seems this is only my preference.

 

Am 19.09.2014 um 15:37 schrieb Molly <moll...@gmail.com>:

art that is beautiful, art meant to disturb, art that pushes the technical limits previously established, art constructed not to last like chalk on sidewalks or sand sculptures on beaches - art comes in many forms and can be as simple as a concept in Haiku or complicated as Mt. Rushmore. This age old question, will it always be asked and answered? It does provide a platform for good dialogue and self exploration.

On Thursday, September 18, 2014 9:05:40 AM UTC-4, archytas wrote:

I agree Facil - though some definition of artist is required.  What is this 'art' not part of 1000 channels with nothing on except the simulacrum of drivel, generally funded by advertising?  I might point to Maxwell (perhaps both the great scientist and my dog) and Einstein.  I've long wondered about art and people-community development - I'm floored by people using dance to work with disabled kids (as an example).  Brian Bevan (rugby leaugue's record try scorer) was a work of art in action.  Gabby might be see as such in another form of side-step.  Not all art brings much reward.  Allan and Andrew have a go, sometimes not at each other.  Molly has often touched me deeply, even if so much of my experience has been 'dark side'.  The chocolate box picture isn't art unless a child is smiling.

Art may have some function in revealing such as 'change is the same thing' and the depravity of political words, the 'lie that tells us the truth' sort of stuff - but does the 'pipe' have to be painted by Magritte?   One confronts this picture doing systems analysis - modelling the reality is not modelling the rhetoric.

On Thursday, 18 September 2014 00:31:17 UTC+1, facilitator wrote:

I don't think artists do, otherwise the term "starving artist" would be applied less frequently.

On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 9:54:57 AM UTC-4, archytas wrote:

Ms Tidulz says she has no gold and just looks at her claws when I suggest she should be replaced with a golden goose.  Perhaps one needs a heretic cat?  Do artists have some knack in spotting the drivel we 'all' want?

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/JaQa8KNDeo0/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[gabbydott]

Hahaha, God save the Queen. :)

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

[Gabby]

and here with a more royal undertone:
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/sep/19/queen-uk-respect-scottish-independence-referendum

[Molly]

But I have no doubt that these emotions will be tempered by an understanding of the feelings of others.

[gabbydott]

Whereas I doubt that the damage done can be ignored and suppressed any longer.

>>>> minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send

>>>> an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/JaQa8KNDeo0/unsubscribe.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to

>>> minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>
>
> --
>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/JaQa8KNDeo0/unsubscribe.
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to

> minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

[Molly]

http://youtu.be/fi2XCsPKlY8  Damage done

>>>> minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>
>>>>  --
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send

>>>> an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>
>>>  --
>>>
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/JaQa8KNDeo0/unsubscribe.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to

>>> minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>
>
> --
>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/JaQa8KNDeo0/unsubscribe.
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to

> minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[gabbydott]

What about the needle? Are you afraid it could damage to your pink bubbles?

>> >>>> minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

>> >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ---
>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> >>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>> send

>> >>>> an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

>> >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> >>>>
>> >>> --
>> >>>
>> >>> ---
>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
>> >>>
>> >>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
>> >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
>> >>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/JaQa8KNDeo0/unsubscribe.
>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to

>> >>> minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

>> >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > ---
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
>> > Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
>> > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/JaQa8KNDeo0/unsubscribe.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to

>> > minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> >
>>
>
> --
>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/JaQa8KNDeo0/unsubscribe.
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to

> minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

[Molly]

What do you think the vote in Scotland means to Great Britain and England, Neil?

>> >>>> minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

>> >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>  --
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ---
>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> >>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>> send

>> >>>> an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

>> >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> >>>>
>> >>>  --
>> >>>
>> >>> ---
>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
>> >>>
>> >>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
>> >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
>> >>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/JaQa8KNDeo0/unsubscribe.
>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to

>> >>> minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

>> >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > ---
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
>> > Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
>> > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/JaQa8KNDeo0/unsubscribe.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to

>> > minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> >
>>
>
> --
>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/JaQa8KNDeo0/unsubscribe.
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to

> minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Allan H]

Is everything okay Gabby, you sound like you are going through some very unpleasant and difficult times. Is there anything I can do to help?

Allan
A Living Soul

[gabbydott]

Oh, I'm glad you notice! For the time being I am happy with my remodified "Minds Eye" image of Queen Molly in the center and her corgie Allan by foot, as we would say in German. I do respect the long tradition line, but honestly, this image might only help if you hang it in the bathroom - as a relaxer when you have digestion problems. Problem solved.

[gabbydott]

...I need to remodify again... Tony asked for a 3-dimensional interpretation mode... and in the meantime I have read the newspaper and found this image:

I very much like the upstairs dimension here and the Queen's pink hat (by throwing in the hat Neil got the mod job here, normal offers were ignored)... which leads me to edit my image into: Queen Molly, never outside without her hat Neil, and her corgie Allan at her feet.... yes, much more to the point...

[Gabby]

... boah... within the apple bubble everything looked perfect... so here is the image I was referring to:

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/images/darling_ts/10729562/2-format35.jpg

>> >>>> minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

>> >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>  --
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ---
>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> >>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>> send

>> >>>> an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

>> >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> >>>>
>> >>>  --
>> >>>
>> >>> ---
>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
>> >>>
>> >>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
>> >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
>> >>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/JaQa8KNDeo0/unsubscribe.
>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to

>> >>> minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

>> >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > ---
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
>> > Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
>> > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/JaQa8KNDeo0/unsubscribe.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to

>> > minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> >
>>
>
> --
>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/JaQa8KNDeo0/unsubscribe.
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to

> minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/JaQa8KNDeo0/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Molly]

Gabby, the Don Rickels of Minds Eye:  http://youtu.be/q5_V9RT8aR8

[andrew vecsey]

Molly, I realize that you wanted to stop the bickering but I do not think that you did it the right way. First as a moderator of this group, I think you should have answered Gabbi`s gaberish comment by reminding her to stay on the topic. Second, you yourself took the discussion right off course. Third, you should address your comments or questions to the entire group, and not just to one person. I commend Neil for not biting your bait. Perhaps the problem is that you enjoy the bickering as you once posted a few months ago.  As far as this topic is concerned about "beauty" in the eyes of the beholder (and now suddenly "fame" in the eyes of beholders) I think that beauty has something to do with love. People that I love radiate a kind of physical beauty that they did not radiate before I grew to love them.  As far as fame goes, I think it has to do with marketing. Its not what you know that matters, but who you know.

>> >>>> minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

>> >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>  --
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ---
>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> >>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>> send

>> >>>> an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

>> >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> >>>>
>> >>>  --
>> >>>
>> >>> ---
>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
>> >>>
>> >>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
>> >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
>> >>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/JaQa8KNDeo0/unsubscribe.
>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to

>> >>> minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

>> >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > ---
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
>> > Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
>> > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/JaQa8KNDeo0/unsubscribe.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to

>> > minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> >
>>
>
> --
>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/JaQa8KNDeo0/unsubscribe.
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to

> minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

[Molly]

Most of conflicts and tensions are due to language. Don't pay so much attention to the words. In love’s country, language doesn't have its place. Love's mute.

~ Shams Tabrizi

[gabbydott]

I would write "Pink Bubble Terror" on this Molly's sculpture here and leave it open to the spectator to find it beautiful.

Molly, I don't think Andrew stayed mute on Allan because he feels he is walking through love's country with him. I think he has learned to ignore him, because there is nothing else he can do about Allan's annoying behaviour of constantly pissing at Andrew's leg, which is the result of you mods ignoring his bahaviour. Just saying. And I will keep on saying.

[Molly]

what is the sound of one hand clapping? This mod has outgrown the referee role and the group has outgrown the need for one.  Those who want a squabble are going to find one somewhere, but not many take the bait in here, although it does happen as in your last post Gabby.  Opinions of dislike expressed about people in here are worthless.  Opinions about ideas will or will not become part of the dialogue.  It is not up to the mods to assign value or insist on directions for the conversation.  Why there is a need for this to be rehashed is questionable, although there seem to be folks still in the group that have trouble with authority and see the "mods" as just that.  

What's left of this group are a handful of people who recognize that years of ongoing dialogue can change us, and are willing to overlook temper tantrums or personal jabs to find a nugget now and then, with the hope that members can outgrow the need to go after each other.  At a time in the group where we are questioning the value of staying on the google platform and find the group somewhat stagnant already, it surprises me that this kind of stuff still goes on, quiet frankly. but here we are.

I am not going to argue with anyone about my posts, my ideas or my role as a moderator.  Happy to dialogue in a constructive way anytime.  If humor can't keep the train on the track then it will probably derail now and then.  C'est la vie

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[facilitator]

New saying:

"God is an atheist"

Thoughts?

[gabbydott]

God is not a train that can derail as in acting like an atheist. That track is another threat in this thread.

--

[Molly]

The saying is certainly an attention grabber.  I can see that some would see it as threatening, although sure that each reason would be personal.  The joining of God and atheism is a real paradox, and any mystic would say it works. It doesn't work for the religious fundamentalists who give God a personality and would rail against the idea that God's belief would be there is no God.  Although, come to think of it, self negation is like self denial, self abuse, self degradation or the other human behaviors that mean tearing ourselves apart.

Would love to see the sculpture to this one!

[Allan]

Hmm.

ATHEIST

atheist

• adj : related to or characterized by or given to atheism; "atheist leanings" [syn: {atheistic}, {atheistical}]

• n : someone who denies the existence of god

Interesting thought Tony. My question becomes in examining the definition becomes; How can God deny his own existence? Can you deny your existence?

Allan
Living Soul

-----Original Message-----

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

[facilitator]

I like the way people ponder in this group.

Perhaps the idea should be reverse engineered.  Would the definition of an "Atheist" fit a characteristic of a god.  In other words, in order for there to be a god, by reason, that god would have to be self evident enough to realize that no other gods could exist.  Its a bit of a paradox but one that works as a characterization of self awareness.  How far would that self awareness reach?  Even in polytheism there seems to be a consensus of a "head" god.

[Allan]

If you want to reverse engineer the question Tony..  An atheist is saying god is nothing or the big Zero. Is this statement correct?

[facilitator]

Technically no.  That would be a "non-theist".  What I am saying is that one of the attributes, or ingredients if you will, to being a god, is to first recognize a singular uniqueness.  Step away from the religious aspect.  Look at it solely from a qualification standpoint.   

[Allan]

Now you are confusing me, now you are saying there could be a god but you can not prove it..  I was told that is the agnostic view.
I do not see what religion has to do with the question. Religions all deal with D&D.
So what yo

[archytas]

I voted for Gabby as a moderator, perhaps as I own no hats that throw well.  And I voted for her as Queen of Scotland too as we share grass porridge ancestry.  The independence vote was largely on age - under 54 yes and over no.  I wanted a vote on separating the South-east of England from the rest of the country, which would have applied to join federal Germany as Celtland, Mercia and Wessex.   There is no better art than Germans shouting 'apple juice' at Nazis.

[andrew vecsey]

Well done Neil. Another derailment. A wise man once said something about derailment and suddenly and unexpectedly changing the subject under discussion, but I forget just now what it was that he said. Perhaps it was that it is much easier to get off track than to stay on track, especially if you are driving and drinking.
Now getting back on the track,
The god that Jews, Christians and Muslims believe in  clearly stated that there were other gods, but that they were all under him.

[Molly]

We get our share on non votes here in the states too, banal choices that have been so watered down or obscured before reaching the ballot that voting at all is ridiculous. Proof once again on how hard it is to reach consensus and work cooperatively.  Our very natures must prevent it. After watching the Roosevelt series here in the states (Ken Burns) I am left wondering just how may certifiable wackos walk among us, and just how to gain cooperation if the chore is to get past the more and less obvious personality disorders. None of it requires a belief in God by any measure. 

[facilitator]

You're getting too deep here.  This is not a issue of comparative beliefs.  This is not about the existence of (a) god (s).  I was only clarifying the term.  And you are correct religion has nothing to do with it.  This has to do with the intrinsic nature of (a) deity.

[Molly]

confused.  I thought atheism was about the existence of God.

[facilitator]

It is.  But my statement is about an attribute not a "proof".  There is a deeper reasoning here.  Look at it from a non religious perspective even though we are predisposed to that thinking.

[Molly]

Korzybski's time-binding introduced the notion of the human capability to build on the knowledge of prior generations, with language as the principle tool.  I haven't seen a more widely used reference than his General Semantics when tossing around the idea of how words communicate.  He missed the spiritual aspects of the Logos, but then, he was a scientist.

The intention of the artist when using language can be vastly different that the interpretation of the viewer, as connotation, denotation and level of cultural uses of the word come into play.  I've found that it can be no easy task for a facilitator to get a group on the same semantic level but much of that depends on the group itself.

Breaking the limits of predisposed thinking may get to the crux of "what is art."

[Allan]

I do not see where all this jig is coming from. Atheism has a very simple D&D there is no god.
So the question remains
Is there a god or gods?  Or
There  zero ( 0 ) God or Gods?

Allan
Living Soul

-----Original Message-----
From: "'facilitator' via \"Minds Eye\"" <mind...@googlegroups.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: "A wise man once said."

[facilitator]

Hope this link works!

Some asked for a visual:  The name of this piece is "The Narcissist"

http://www.cooperstownart.com/photo-and-video-gallery.html

[facilitator]

[facilitator]

Dang!   

It is giving the whole site instead of the individual image.

[Allan]

Which is your work?

Allan
Living Soul

-----Original Message-----
From: "'facilitator' via \"Minds Eye\"" <mind...@googlegroups.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: "A wise man once said."

--

[facilitator]

The Metal ring one

[Allan]

Interesting, could use pictures from different angles to view it better.

[facilitator]

Here are some:

[archytas]

I like it Facil.  Can I get one in Vantablack?

[Molly]

LOVE it. kinetic.

[facilitator]

The blackest one I do so far is solid Graphite.

This is called "Faith   Reason"

It is based on a contrast but joined together as a single entity.

[Allan]

Nice, very interesting.

Allan
Living Soul

-----Original Message-----
From: "'facilitator' via \"Minds Eye\"" <mind...@googlegroups.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 10:51 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: "A wise man once said."

[Allan]

Well where are the ¿pics? For the graphite one and any others?
Excuse me.
yes Andrew I know we are off topic........
Your sculpture is not what I was expecting

[andrew vecsey]

I like your sculptures facilitator. You said that you put encryptions or quotations on some of them. Why don`t you include pictures of the sculptures along with the quotations of wise men that you would like to discuss?

How does your sculpture for "Beauty is not in the eye of the beholder but in the eye of the imaginative"  look like?
And what about the sculpture for your quote on "fame"?

[facilitator]

Yes I can post more pics.  My intenbt here originally was to discuss but if people want images that's not a big deal.

[facilitator]

[archytas]

I 'reminded' of a 'water-cooled microscope' by the faith one Facil.  If I'd been able to build it, I might have called it 'introspection'.  The 'egg-whisk' (forgive me) could be the vacuum energy tap my aliens are constructing near the centre of the galaxy.  We use a lot of thought experiments in science, such as what aliens used to trust would make of our security-ridden electronics - and hence what we might be missing on thinking of cells as cooperative rather than in a co-evolutionary arms' race.  The repeated question is 'what are we looking at'?  I have no skill at all in your area, though some of my Heath-Robinson productions in my old lab might qualify if sprayed with chrome and Vantablack and given a cunning conceptual art title.  No intent to knock here.  Find myself wondering how your process works.

[Allan H]

I like the fluidity and movement. I am not a great art critic,either l like it or I don't most good sculptures take me a long time to think through.

Allan
A Living Soul

[archytas]

Faith : Reason - impressions of internal lensing/focus from the object - maybe a Vantablack blackhole stealth effect trapping the light yet improving the vision by removing distortion.  There is a sense of power providing superconductivity.  My eye, of course.  Does the object really reek so of technology, or my desire to add more?  Faith and reason as a conduit to clarity, effort and the containment of effort (so as not to distort) needed to 'see'.  What is more than just chic-decorative?  Is the art the piece or its exhibition either in the gallery or out talk?  Is there some facilitated force to rethink, re-image or just different resonance in our differing parochial experience?

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[archytas]

Vantablack, if anyone's wondering, is stealth-bomber paint made from graphene and creates a super-capillary effect trapping photons. 

[facilitator]

Apologize for the delay in responding to queries.  I will answer them today.

[Molly]

Having the bedroom repainted now.

On Wednesday, September 24, 2014 4:59:38 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:

[Gabby]

Using the Pluralis Majestatis, aren't we, Molly? - Here, I find this one funny:

A radio conversation between a U.S. Navy vehicle and Canadian authorities off the coast of Newfoundland. Americans: "Please divert your course 15 degrees to the north to avoid a collision." 

Canadians: "I recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the south to avoid a collision." 

Americans: "This is the captain of a ship of the US Navy. I say again: Change YOUR course. "

Canadians: "No. I say again, divert YOUR course YOU ". 

Americans: "This is the aircraft carrier USS Lincoln ', the second largest ship in the Atlantic Fleet of the United States. I demand that you change your course 15 degrees north, or counter-measures are taken to ensure the safety of this ship. "

Canadians: "WE are a lighthouse."

[Molly]

Anyone one else see the word WE in my post?  If so, I will get my eyes checked as soon as the painters are gone.

[archytas]

One doubts you were having the bedroom Vantablacked either Molly.  Extrapolating from I am having or we are having, forgetting any 'we' that might involve your husband to assume queenly statement, might also lead one to wonder how, why and other a Canadian lighthouse came to be in powered floatation on the high seas interfering with US warships.  Assumptions can go all astray.

[facilitator]

Actually the "Egg Whisk" is the most common description I have heard.  The second one is a light bulb.  I suppose if both are applied to the mind it could flip either way.  Not offended in the least.  In fact, I look at most art and say to myself "What the hell?"

The title of the piece is:  "T'was Not The Question Asked, But The Answer That Was Given"

The Encryption:  "Whattnemtnetnocisnraeltheotmeaningsiofrewsnalifeeht"    This is engraved into the metal.  I wanted people to think about what it was they were looking at and also to challenge the mind beyond the first impression.

Here is how it is deciphered.  The first word is "What",  then you proceed until you can form another word all the way to the end.  Then go in reverse and form words without using any of the previous letters.  I am amazed at how some people figure it out quickly.  At an art show recently I had a man in a wheelchair look at it and say to me "OK what does it say"?  I replied that it must be figured out, I don't give it away.  He didn't attempt it but was extremely disappointed.

The copper and brass wires represent a communication of sorts between the seeker and the one who gives the answer.  The answer is being given while the question is being asked.  

[archytas]

Whisking produces material for quantum thought and experiment.  Mayonnaise and how it sticks together lead to ideas the vacuum is not 'empty'.  We seem to have some brain function that purposively disrupts memory and the familiar for the imagination. In thinking of the future, one might think of such in which what is currently human only part of a fossil record and memories, not of intergalactic jet-set humans strutting soap opera in new technology.  There is something of this in your piece and its presentation that suggests more than the copying of conceptual,opinion in 'art talk' and shifts to the disruptive.

This said, my favourite 'art film' was Tony Hancock's 'The Rebel'.  

[Molly]

"None of you know what you're looking at!" A very good string of laughs (at ourselves.)

[gabbydott]

Do we not? I don't know. Comic relief is the max you can achieve under the given title, I find myself confirmed.

--

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/JaQa8KNDeo0/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to minds-eye+...@googlegroups.com.

[Don Johnson]

I like it. I assume these are metal? Aluminum and copper? Did you braze them?

Very nice I wish I could see it in person.

dj

[Molly]

Wonder if Tony Hancock felt confirmed in the end, still striving to find Aphrodite at the water hole on the horizontal. What fun.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to minds-eye+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.