Ferguson Missouri

[archytas]

In the UK it is sometimes necessary for police to shoot members of the public and even one of their own.  These are unusual events and the general plan follows Max Senate's Keystone Cops blueprint.  We find the bungling 'hidden' behind the 'utmost standards of professionalism' reassuring.  The general pattern is as follows:

1.  A hectic car chase done for safety reasons and to avoid such dangerous tactics as sticking a gun in the back of a walking criminal and saying 'you're nicked Pal'.

2.  A defensive ramming attack known as a hard stop, followed by loud shouts to confuse the hardened criminals bristling with high-tec machine guns.  All CCTV fails at this point.

3.  Suspects are shot and as note sent to the press that they were firing at brave officers protecting the public.  Any public at the scene is dispersed for its own protection once the shooting stops.

4.  Some years later, after an investigation by the Independent Police Complaints Commission clears all officers and various normal due process like inquests have been avoided, we discover police evidence is entirely inconsistent with some overlooked recording missed by the highly professional IPCC.

5.  The shooting officer is then put on trial 10 years after the event.  The jury rejects the case on the grounds the officer was just doing his best and was worried he would be late home for his tea, even if he discharged 22 shots and tried to pistol-whip an innocent guy to death owing to his poor aim and having run out of ammunition.  Various suspect guns turn out to be non-existent or crude replicas or converted starting pistols.

6.  Police are accused of racism, even though they are entirely fair in random choice of victims, even to the point of shooting one of their own point blank with a shotgun in training.

7.  At any given point there will be an ongoing enquiry into such a killing to learn the lessons obvious for 50 years.

In Ferguson, more police ammunition has been expended on 'troublemakers' than in the UK annual season.  The cover up processes seem far less secretive in the colonies and completed (admittedly as effectively) in outrageous haste compared with tired and trusted delay in the old country.  Your provision of no justice in a few months rather than after several decades here may set very disturbing precedents.

I'm rather bored by the scenario, wondering why we burn down Taco Bell and not the banks and parliaments.

[archytas]

My question is how we could start taking very serious matters like Ferguson seriously?  

[Gabby]

Ridiculing is a good start. It makes you look like you had fun. Positive vibrations resounding the positive.

[facilitator]

The media consistently wanted this to be about race. It wasn't.  Change the demographics of either the cop or the deceased and this story would not have been in the news at all.  The problem is the premiss.  Our system allows a Grand Jury to decide if charges are to be rendered.  

I have been on two Grand Juries and we all took these matters very seriously.

[archytas]

Much is fit only for ridicule Gabby.  As for the positive pounding, my best friend likes those loud Japanese drums as a prelude to a few beers.  Quite how we get to sense talk instead of newsroom madness has troubled me forever, as I'm sure you know.

I'd have been expected to take Michael Brown down unarmed - something of a mismatch at 168 versus 290 pounds and a routine Salford Saturday night.  I guess I could have run away until the pink slime and doughnuts tired him out and I could get a tow-truck to transport him to the Crescent.  Even armed I tended not to shoot people, fearing weeks of paper work more than the odd knife graze.  Quite why cops were supposed to put their bodies on the line instead of just shooting bad guys I'm not sure.

I don't get the race thing at all, here or in the US other than as Tony says.  Smacking a cop in the mouth seems pretty 'racist' to me.  The US situation looks a lot like Northern Ireland to me - the Catholics had genuine civil rights issues there on housing, jobs and lousy treatment.  These were not addressed directly either.  The investigation into Wilson's actions look reasonable and speedy compared with here and much more open.  This seems to no avail.  

One very noticeable thing in the US investigations is knowledge of the limitations of cops accounts of their shootings on such as the number of rounds fired and recall ability.  Here our cops are taught to parrot the Manual of Guidance on the care with which each shot is aimed and fired with perfect memory.  And our cops are allowed to refuse to answer questions and collude on answers.  Thus our cops lie to make their stories look like the textbook and match each other.  I don't get the logic of 'black guy dead, burn Tottenham or Ferguson'.  Or that of 'the Establishment is corrupt, cure this by lynching a cop who has shot a crook'.

[Molly]

This Craig's List ad trumps any absurd Ferguson observation made so far:  http://stlouis.craigslist.org/sks/4777335634.html  

[archytas]

Gruesome.  

[facilitator]

The anger I can partially understand since the messiah in the White House has had little or negative impact on the average black in "Partially United States".  The seething rage comes from many, many years of disproportionate treatment and does not need much to surface. 

I don't really understand how looting helps the cause.  I know unequivocally when there is a crime being committed people call police and not looting mobs to come help.

Maybe the North Koreans can show us what true peace is in the happy place of the Great Leader!

On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 4:20:45 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote:

[allan...@gmail.com]

Ferguson is going to get just what Ferguson wants.

لا القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد أو إيذاء الآخرين
Do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

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[gabbydott]

Ferguson Grand Jury Composition:

- 6 white males

- 3 white women

- 2 black women

- 1 black man

9 votes needed to indict

When I see the above figures, I am very sympathetic with this view here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ferguson-wasnt-black-rage-against-copsit-was-white-rage-against-progress/2014/08/29/3055e3f4-2d75-11e4-bb9b-997ae96fad33_story.html

For me, to make sense, I need a more accessible and more connectable frame of reference.  I remember how very naive I entered this American ME rights space here. I had a totally different understanding of what the idea of "Minds Eye" represents. I learned it means I show and tell you what I mean and I listen to your counter arguments to improve my own argumentation. I expect you to do the same.  I was shocked when the new feature "icon space" was first filled with a photo of Brother Jake or Dave to ridicule him and mob him out of the group. Both ModGods Chris and Ian had enormous fun exposing what a stupid believer idiot this guy must have been. I became aware that it is not normal, that no one has the right to use and publish your photo or other personal data  without your consent, but that this is only German law. After the Mods got bored with that photo, they came up with the blue eye. That's something else I learned here, first create facts and then let them argue. A serious amount of opposition is not to be expected, how many valid points can you make against a piece of art? Is it a blue eye? A blue planet? Both? None? It's up to the eye of the beholder to form their own truth. The Eye-I relation became more and more obvious. Correspondingly, the more obvious the obvious became, the higher the emotional need for the hidden and the soul dimension.  What is the power behind the messiahs, whose inspirational forces so quickly wear off if they don't die before their time? Still very visible in old Europe but not so much in separate America: Godmother Mary! My theory is that she has not been worshiped enough in America and therefore turned Moll  - and that America "needs" the backlash from messiah to Godmother (Dur: Hillary Clinton) to get their sound back right.

To come back to the topic of this thread, I could not subscribe to neither the idea of black rack rage against cops, nor white rage against progress. I would describe it as yet another symptom of rage against the machine.

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[Molly]

Detroit retail never fully recovered from the 67 riots created by the same kind of circumstance. The stores that closed having lost everything with no faith that it wouldn't keep happening. The racial divide has played out here in many horrendous ways over the years, including a "black power" city government being instructed by the mayor to do no business with white owned companies. The ethnocentrism was finally the demise of the exclusionary government that fell into deep corruption and bankruptcy. I see both sides and neither are healthy until the city is seen as a whole including all and part of the rest of the world.  Through all of it, it has somehow remained a driving force in global economy and culture. Tribal societies no longer function on large scale and examples of this can be seen all over the world. The reluctance of each of us to see beyond color and history lies at the heart of the problem. Grace Lee Boggs fascinates me because her story runs the gamut of descent, rebel, revolutionary, community leader that unites, finding her way from divisive messages to unifying actions. 

[gabbydott]

" Through all of it, it has somehow remained a driving force in global economy and culture. Tribal societies no longer function on large scale and examples of this can be seen all over the world. The reluctance of each of us to see beyond color and history lies at the heart of the problem."

I would describe this as Monsanto logic. By the law of Darwin, monocultural superpowers are meant to eat up the world. <bitter irony>

Do your best in your tribal culture Detroit, Molly. May God be with you. Like Monsanto he is also blind to color and history. Amen.

(The real trend shows something different though ... :))

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[archytas]

Some interesting views at the Post Gabby.  I'm generally not keen to extrapolate from criminal mentalities on social problems, yet these problems almost must be multi-faceted and thus not amenable to fascist analysis through slogan.  Much of my experience with black people came through cricket (great) and being a cop (good, bad, indifferent) or university teacher (as stupid and unreliable as the rest of the class?).  A university friend took me to his village in what was then Zaire.  I can only say any discussion I've heard on ethnic rights since is so constrained by political correctness slogans as to be both fascist and based on presenting the face of Goody-two-shoes.

Rage against the machine?  Not well directed if true - and I feel it is.  I'm amazed there isn't more rage generally.  I'd work with what I've seen of Darren Wilson ahead of the looters for sure - yet I always wondered why cops like me and him had to do the public order thing for the Establishment without much consideration.  This had me defending the right of some Nazi to parade through Stockport.

The idea that any human beings are less racist on race grounds is so dumb only someone with a PC infection could come up with it.  And much as I don't like the figures on prison populations I'm sick of race explanations.  Men are imprisoned far more than women.  Let's make that a gender rights issue!!

Obama is white Tony - just one of the mobiles in my black brush collection.

[Gabby Thiede]

Your class consciousness is very well audible. When you do the mate number you still need to tone down a lot. It sounds shrill, Neil.

 

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[archytas]

Colour is a fairly recent arrival in the racism fetish - racists having long been able to do their thing without it.  Black Sea slave trading under Greeks, Romans and eventually Crimean Tartars is a good example, as is almost all of the history of the world until yesterday in primitive societies and the grim history from the Baltic to the Balkans.  Even where we have found societies (rare) with no history of war, we have been able to turn them to it (e.g. British use of tribes against Japan).  All societies have done the extreme racist thing - slavery - as though we are more closely descended from slaver ants than we are.

The god Gabby shares around (I 'approve' if we can detach the patronising potential of this term) is also used by perverts in the cause of 'chosen people' (obviously not a Gabby thing).

The evidence from Ferguson seems to be that Brown was a pathetic young thug prepared to steal and intimidate (CCTV).  His family are clearly prepared to lie and stoke up the protests and loads of people are protesting without any understanding that nearly all evidence given supports the cop's story.  Some of the incitement to violence is clearly criminal itself.

Here we have ex-PC Anthony Long on trial for the murder of Azelle Rodney in 2005.  No jury in the land will convict (nor would I - the wrong man is on trial).  This jury will, of course, not be 12 black people from where Rodney lived.  We are also protecting Saudi diplomats from charges of slavery against domestic workers in the UK.  We do not seem to be able to organise protest about the right things.

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[archytas]

'By law of Darwin' Gabbs?  How quaint!  No one pays much direct attention to the 'farting Vicar' in biology these days, though I note he was appalled by the slash and burn ranching and genocide clearances going on while he was rough shooting in South America.  I doubt he would have worked for the economic rentiers of seed.  Monocultures can be quite handy if you want to eat, though also destroy land if not controlled properly.  You and I would not be very popular planting weeds amongst the rice of friends with a paddy field - though the stuff is reverting to weed form (not much good for eating).  I expect we could do something more sensibly scientific together.  Ferguson is in flames over the death of a minor crook while Monsanto kills thousands with dud seed ...

[archytas]

No Idea what the male number is Gabby - is it a bit like the opposite of what those women hanging around newsrooms do?  I am male I'm afraid, so am stuck with such as my feet not being the first thing I see looking down in the shower.  Of course, I'm old enough now to be more concerned about keeping my feet working.  For the record, the thinking itself indestructible younger me would have taken on Mike Brown going forward, believing some young big punk couldn't hack a fit rugby league player half his size.  Sorry to be so shrill my dear.  I never made new man status, believing women capable of seeing through such crude deceptions, even as they fell wildly under the strategy.  We might consider what the reaction would have been had Brown been shot by an 8 stone female cop like my ex-partner Mary.  I'll get back in the kitchen and shut the door so you can't hear me being shrill then me dear.  At least you are admitting we men can count these days, even if we do our number in shrill voice.

Je vous adresse mon très amical souvenir chaleureusement, comme meme.

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[archytas]

No sense, anyone, of Ferguson and the wider protests as an American spring?

[gabbydott]

Hm, I meant mate number as in: hey, we're best buddys , I hear your back hurts from your hard work, let me help you with the lawn, some exercise will do my back good too.

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[Molly]

The unheard rage of those individuals dominated in dire circumstance or as a group over the eons is heard in echos in distant news or, for sensitive souls, deep within. It is up to each of us to find that place of hate and violence within us, and move beyond it into peace.  Until we do, railing against a machine that churns out horror will do no good.

[allan...@gmail.com]

لا القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد أو إيذاء الآخرين
Do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

A start , from there you need cooperation, all souls know the guidelines of do no harm, but do people listen,  to that the answer is yes they do. They listen only to what they want to hear and what benefits them. The Gospel of Woe is well sung and recited daily. The problem with version of life's view is it gives no answers that provide direction.

Oh Woe is me echoes through out the world. There are many gospels but I am thinking that one is the most widely followed!

Yes Gabby I think the translation is : nicht Mord, Vergewaltigung, Versklavung oder andere schädigen

لا القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد أو إيذاء الآخرين
Do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

-----Original Message-----
From: Molly <moll...@gmail.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com

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[allan...@gmail.com]

لا القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد أو إيذاء الآخرين
Do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

A start , from there you need cooperation, all souls know the guidelines of do no harm, but do people listen,  to that the answer is yes they do. They listen only to what they want to hear and what benefits them. The Gospel of Woe is well sung and recited daily. The problem with version of life's view is it gives no answers that provide direction.

Oh Woe is me echoes through out the world. There are many gospels but I am thinking that one is the most widely followed!

And for you Gabby I am not sure on the accuracy of the translation: nicht Mord, Vergewaltigung, Versklavung oder andere schädigen.

لا القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد أو إيذاء الآخرين
Do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

-----Original Message-----
From: Molly <moll...@gmail.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Ferguson Missouri

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[gabbydott]

Yes, Mr Heretic, I understand.

Now, how effective do you think it is to tell Molly not to think in pink bubbles?

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[RP Singh]

Allan , the problem is that people don't believe their inner voice, they believe in worldly attachments and work or prey for their satisfaction.

[archytas]

AW, how sweet.  Mutual back exercise for the benefit of joints in a mate number?  Much the same being said by the dogs about the benefits their walks bring to me.  We're going down
 to the river today and then along to the village in which the industrial revolution stated before trotting off to a site of spectacular scientific interest (old seeds trapped in sandstone).  Sandwiches and coffee near the sign that explains the science.  Dogs shun the coffee so I can offer to share that.  Butties usually sniffed out and purloined before I remember I have them.  I shall think of you doing a helpful stint on the treadmill.  Mabel usually emerges from the woods near there.  She's a Great Dane.  Max is awestruck.  He could get a week's exercise running between you on the treadmill and Mabel.  I may set up a simulation this afternoon.  Missing you already, as they say.

Actually, I'm quite serious about the prison numbers as a gender issue.  Somehow starting from farce might preclude some of the dafter things we get serious about like 'there is no crime in Bahrain' - which looks different when you know the 10,000 seater jail is full.

[archytas]

That's a bit like Wittgenstein's 'putting the question marks in deep enough' Molly.  The lack of recognition of the 'nasty depths' leads to volleys of artillery from competing moral high grounds, on top of which no one believes in violence.

Cops in the UK have to account for every bullet, each shot must be aimed and fired only in self-defence or to protect the public.  This leads our cops to lie so their stories match the rules of engagement.  Wilson's story would have led to his trial and conviction here - though the legal system is now so perverse similar bungling at Stockwell did not lead to anyone being held responsible for shooting Jean Charles Demenzes.  We scapegoat people from time to time is all.  My interest is in how we can't get past "revenge" on poor sods just doing a lousy job and down to the roots Molly suggests.  Yet it seems a whole can of worms needs opening up on our society before we can start.

[archytas]

Pink bubbles is Barbeemolly Gabbs.  Her best friend is Gabbydolly.  Don't worry too much.  I cut the brake pipes on their pink Cadillac convertible, so once one of them learns to drive ...

[allan...@gmail.com]

Gabby the world needs its Mollys with pink bubble vision, the seed challenges the theology or terrorists directly, Molly's pink bubbles to fertilize and create a better world once the seed miss planted,

[allan...@gmail.com]

I agree with you RP souls do not listen to the inner voice, it is the satisfaction of today's pleasures that they are driven toward by the common communications of our world.  Look at he the entertainment and promises made.

[allan...@gmail.com]

The advantages of small min pins, she can race between the flowers as she patrols her pack's private territory. All while I sit out side enjoying my mint tea contemplating prisoner numbers.
Prisoners numbers attached to monitoring bracelets to control prisoners and their activities. This could be used to solve the overcrowded prison problems.

لا القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد أو إيذاء الآخرين
Do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others

-----Original Message-----
From: archytas <nwt...@gmail.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Ferguson Missouri

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[archytas]

I sometimes find Molly's bubbles as 'pink' as Gabby.  Yet Molly is never as pink as, say, this academic view - http://www.uk.sagepub.com/rowe2e/study/Journal%20Articles/CHAPTER3_Race%20Class-2013-Fekete-65-76.pdf

There are some important points even 'in the pink'.  And I can't remember Molly ever saying shifting the spiritual ground being anything other than difficult - or that shifting racism and other material problems can be done by not admitting what they are.  One of the reasons I like both these people is they can give as good as they get.  We are in the middle of a spate of child sexual exploitation investigations with celebrities, politicians, Pakistani and Somali 'heritage' perpetrators in the UK.  This is not racist policing - the history is one of poor policing and cover up - as the link says, the secrecy involved is very disturbing and deeply embedded in our legal system.  The necessary conditions for pink solutions may well include fair and reliable policing, though in the black we might have a good laugh watching politically correct heroes doing the job with a few side bets on their life expectancy.

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[archytas]

Does it get pinker than this?

" The black voluntary

sector – a political entity – picked up the baton of frontline politics, but eventually

this also broke down under the impact of the local authority contract culture,

service provision and management strategies that undermined advocacy and

self-help. The way the state creates ‘enemy images’ and demonises different communities

creates a ‘brick wall’ between the various outcast communities. What

emerged from community participants was the need to reconstruct the frontline

in the knowledge that, today, this is not a place or ideology, but the very lungs of

progressive politics; namely, the living, breathing and vital concept of solidarity.

It is only by building our own ‘wall’, they said, not to divide, but to protect people,

and by the different communities showing solidarity through forming a

‘community of interest’ that connects with ‘communities of influence’, that we

can confront the ‘joined-up authoritarian state’. It is only this sort of solidarity

across communities that can help to fight off the threat of militarised policing and

the social control that such ‘total policing’ ushers in".

One wonders if this academic has ever read on 'fascist self-sufficiency'?  The Soviets said they built their wall, not to keep their people in, but capitalism out.  On estates of every hue I heard a different story - about dealing with the few violent creeps who made everyone's life a misery (Dirty Harry's tale) and the lousy bureaucracy.  Now we have unpopular cops in Broadwater Farm and Ferguson and none nicking bankers.  You get shot over a few cigarillos, but not even arrested for stealing a pension fund. 

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[archytas]

In the non-pink we have http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-26/guest-post-rant-what-i-learned-ferguson and http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-26/guest-post-did-they-want-more-violence-ferguson-10-coincidences-too-glaring-ignore

4. There are good people of all races/creeds/colors/whatever that want to just live and let live. Seek out those people, give them a voice, cherish them. Or, as we say in the prepper community – prep, train and form teams.

5. Now that the economic heart of the Ferguson community has been burned to the ground, we will likely see yet another self serving black politician like Maxine Waters (Watts riots) come to power promising all kinds of rainbow pooping unicorn lollipop goodies while Ferguson morphs into Detroit.

6. If you are a business owner close to a large mass of illiterate, impoverished and perpetually aggrieved people – tough shit. You are clearly on your own in a riot as the police/fire will not come to protect/help you.

It gets worse and is all the fault of the Pinkoes.  I tried to get Max to share his (my) bacon butty with the Great Dane.  Zak took the opportunity to sneak some of Mabel's treats from her owner.  They all got something of something and were all miffed they didn't get it all.  I was in some doubt on dog communism until Mabel dove into the river to encourage Max to come back from the other side.  The lad had made it one-way but was unable to pluck up and dive back in to come back.  I now know the Great Dane for 'come on you silly little boy'.

[archytas]

Beyond the libertarians, Twitter has a fair amount of open racism concerning 'return to Africa'.  

[Gabby]

Learning to hear Pink, Lesson 1: Angelic voices never touch the ground, Neil, for it would break their wings. They go in resonance with those who can hear. Hear the angelic and not the luciferian, mind the difference! 

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[archytas]

That only calls into question whether we can tell an angel from a devil Gabbs.  I guess we have to keep fusion reactions from grounding to earth and could do with getting them working.  In the spin of current dialogue one seems to meet only a spiral of devils smearing bimbolene about.  I can't help thinking the killing of various minor criminals by cops is what we need to be protesting about.

[gabbydott]

Wow, Mr Brightsight, you ask us to peacefully beg you to stop killing our kids? Your spinning, ridiculing, belittling does not show the desired effects? Do you hear anyone entering a dialouge when all I ask for is to do something about the insulting automated signings of postings here? Dialogue and Do is an absolute no-go combination here and elsewhere.

Personally I am very happy to still have my little devil around.

[archytas]

If Mr Brightsight was able to understand what that little devil is actually saying on signing he might tell me so I could act, at least to the point of leaving the action to Molly, who does most of the work.  German and UK police rarely shoot people. 

Given your action perspective, perhaps you should 'stick to your guns' and get out disarming crime?  We could all sleep soundly in our panic rooms then.  Or we could let the poor little waifs likely to be shot by existing police do the policing.  No doubt you could have soothed the mad, naked man with a knife outside your Town Hall last year and I would have shot him to protect nearby children and myself.  http://www.dw.de/why-german-police-officers-rarely-reach-for-their-guns/a-17884779

These 'victims' are not 'our' children and the numbers pale against the killings in Afghanistan, Iraq and the centuries of imperial war.  We hardly seem to get out of our chattering class habits on what is done to our actual children in such as schools and the vile neo-liberal enterprise.

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[gabbydott]

Yep, time for some royal silence. Molly take over again and soothe the boy's pains.

[archytas]

Here we are disciplining ZZ42 over the killing of Mark Duggan four years ago.  This particular scapegoat was the intelligence officer who found out another crook was in possession of three guns and was going to hand one over to Duggan.  The officer failed to find out the probation hostel the 'armourer' (Foster) was supposed to be staying at = something as an irrelevance as Foster was staying elsewhere - and "thus" do something about the guns before Duggan got one of them.  ZZ42 has still not been interviewed by the IPCC, no doubt in line with their 4-year learning lessons process.  Now the family are claiming their 'poor little baby' should have been protected by police from getting the weapon he did from Foster.  Quite how getting an address Foster wasn't living at or keeping guns at would have aided this process I can't fathom.  Or how leaving 'one of our children' on the street merely looking for another gun would have helped protect any likely victim from Duggan's childish indiscretions.

[archytas]

Durchsichtigkeit as ever, the diaphanousness, insightfulness, transparence and pellucidness of a lovely aim.