Free will

[Rajendra Pal Singh]

A human being works like a machine under the control of nature but we must also realize that our Will is the central part of this machine and it is in this that our freedom lies. And herein lies our accountability.Whatever we do is with our brains and hence normal people are accountable for their actions where as insane are not.

[123...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, January 9, 2018 at 6:47:50 PM UTC+5:30, Rajendra Pal Singh wrote:
> A human being works like a machine under the control of nature but we must also realize that our Will is the central part of this machine and it is in this that our freedom lies. And herein lies our accountability.Whatever we do is with our brains and hence normal people are accountable for their actions where as insane are not.

The will of God is everywhere and my will is part of that will.

[Konara Abeyrathne]

The human being is an effect of a cause.

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[Rajendra Pal Singh]

The whole creation in eternal time is the effect of a cause, I.e  Atman .

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[Rajendra Pal Singh]

I am a tiny fragment of God and thus what I feel, think or do is as a part of Him and not separate from Him, no matter how miniscule I may be.

[Rajendra Pal Singh]

Though feeling free I am completely bound by my nature, even God is not free but bound by his nature. That part of us which accounts for awareness comes as an attribute of God, and our actions come from the creative force which is God's nature. 

[RP]

If I do good I have the right to feel happy,if I do bad I should have the sensibility to feel guilty.

[allan...@gmail.com]

RP Everyone has free will
And I no longer remember how many times have brought it up.
My problem is if there is a serious under lying problem you are having let me know just the problem id,.
Your friend

Do No Harm

[Rajendra Pal Singh]

I am also saying we have free will, but constrained by our abilities and limitations.

[allan...@gmail.com]

This is old hash. I get hung up going around in circles but you have been caught up in free will for years.. I have been hung up on "God is real" for almost 50+ yes it is very repetitive. That is why I recognize the problem, but I also realize I am doing it and why.
Are you having problems dealing with free will?

[Rajendra Pal Singh]

Allan, can you fly unaided, that is what I mean by limitations. Can you solve a very difficult mathematics problem, that is what I mean by abilities.

Can you move your hand, yes you can. Can you drink coffee, yes you can.

You see, Allan, .my thinking has changed over the years. I do not consider a person to be a robot any more.

[archytas]

The robots in our lives are genes.  They get us to do a lot.  The idea is to achieve conscious control.  We humans have a lot of microbes involved in our feelings and behaviour.  THe parasite toxoplasma gonii is a classic study, but it's also likely gut microbes make us depressed.  Some of RP's questions change when you know some science.

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If I do good I have the right to feel happy,if I do bad I should have the sensibility to feel guilty.

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[Rajendra Pal Singh]

What I do is with this brain and body, but they are part of me. It is I who think, reason, understand, and decide and therefore I am free.

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If I do good I have the right to feel happy,if I do bad I should have the sensibility to feel guilty.

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[Allan H]

The amount of knowledge available today exceeds my brain's ability to understand all.

do no harm

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If I do good I have the right to feel happy,if I do bad I should have the sensibility to feel guilty.

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[Allan H]

My body and brain are only housing for the soul.

do no harm

[Rajendra Pal Singh]

It is how you use the body and brain that matters.

[Zenom]

(during the conversation period duTHEcope, from Sep 17, 2015 to early 2016)

i say: “one has total freewill?”

the silent voice replies: “not quite!”

nevertheless, 4 “the forbidden sin” CONTEXT :

**everybody has total freewill, regardless of one own’s circumstance**

everybody be 4 ONESELF in determining one OWN’s continuing being: Existential Responsibility

since “the forbidden sin” - as its so-called imply - can NOT be forgiven

do the crime and then pay the time

https://docs.google.com/document/d/12BkxjxSgC9I4YXiaiOEpJza7zwYgiAnk5C9yZeGfWUk/edit?usp=sharing

[Rajendra Pal Singh]

I am bound by my genes, but they are part of me, and therefore I am free.

On Fri 8 Feb, 2019, 7:43 AM archytas <nwt...@gmail.com wrote:

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If I do good I have the right to feel happy,if I do bad I should have the sensibility to feel guilty.

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[archytas]

We overdo Reason imo RP.  Parasites can phase reason out.  

[Rajendra Pal Singh]

There are two ways, you can have faith in someone and accept what he says and follow him without questioning, the other is have faith in some people and reason things out for yourself.

 I have followed the second path.

--

[archytas]

Others are not a bad check on whether we are deceiving ourselves though RP.

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[Rajendra Pal Singh]

One cannot have faith in everyone, personally science and Hindu philosophy was all that I read.

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[Rajendra Pal Singh]

Gita:-As is the use of a pond in a place flooded with water everywhere, so is that of all the scriptures for the Brahmana who understands.

[allan...@gmail.com]

Interesting RP I like science studied a lot over still enjoy it even though my mind is not as quick as it once was..still enjoy reading about discoveries ..  Hinduism is full is fascinating ideas.. some worth studying.
If  all you read is science and hinduism it sounds almost like christian fundamentalism which is another very closed path  both spiritually and mentally.

Do No Harm

-----Original Message-----
From: Rajendra Pal Singh <123...@gmail.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, 10 Feb 2019 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Free will

[Rajendra Pal Singh]

I haven't read hinduism, but hindu philosophy. I consider myself to be enlightened but equate it with the solving of a difficult mathematics problem, many others can do that, not such a big deal!!!

[allan...@gmail.com]

Hinduism

Hinduism is an Indian religion and dharma, or a way of life, widely practised in the Indian 

[Rajendra Pal Singh]

Hinduism include the upanishads and the Gita, which are our pilosophical works, I read only those.

[allan...@gmail.com]

Forget it..   bye bye

[Rajendra Pal Singh]

It's okay, you are welcome to think as you want.

[archytas]

there sure is plenty not worth reading RP

[archytas]

Is there a Hindu term for Crusade or Jihad RP?  I've heard of the Dharma Yudda.  Free will gets very difficult when we study the very small (stochastic fluctuations) or populations in evolution.

[Rajendra Pal Singh]

Crusade or jihad are unknown in hinduism. Dharam yudha simply mean a war which is being waged for righteousness, like the 2nd world war. If I am wrong Vam will correct me.

--

[Rajendra Pal Singh]

Neil, free will, as per my belief, means actions that are done consciously. It is a relative term, otherwise in this vast universe where everything works orderly, free will does not exist.

On Sat 16 Feb, 2019, 5:39 AM archytas <nwt...@gmail.com wrote:

--

[Rajendra Pal Singh]

When I was born my genes were not of my choosing nor my family or the society in which I was born . Science knows now the importance of genes and early environment in the shaping of the child's personality through which he acts. So just how much free will is left!

[Vam]

Dharma Yuddha is a battle for universal values which, classically, even the enemy believes in. Its violation at the instant is on account of expedience.

Free will makes sense when there is choice, real or not. If the choice is not practical, as in it threatens survival or well being of the family, even then one should be free to choose in one's mind.

Free will creates karma...whether one chooses, acts, or not.

[Rajendra Pal Singh]

If there is karma the question arises about the first birth that the soul took. What and where did the karma for it came about.

[Rajendra Pal Singh]

Karma is a hindu concept and some members in our group might not know about it,. Vam, you are better versed than me in this subject, so you should explain it, so that they may comprehend what we are talking about.

On Sat 16 Feb, 2019, 9:44 AM Vam <atewa...@gmail.com wrote:

[Vam]

Karma and rebirth are twin concepts, which are cornerstones of Hindu and Buddhist way of life. It affects us like artificial intelligence is affected by the choices we make while working with an electronically controlled gadget.

Karma are very subtle impressions left behind by our choices we make, material or mental. They enable our life force to be predisposed towards a particular choice, the one which gives us pleasure or joy. It also predisposes our mind towards a particular choice, from the learning we have had by our previous experience of similar kind.

Addiction is a starkly karmic effect. Attachments and aversions too...

[Rajendra Pal Singh]

So, in the light of this, what is your answer to my previous question. Where is the karma for our first birth? 

[Vam]

Karma is not just a personal thing...

[allan...@gmail.com]

True

Do No Harm

-----Original Message-----

From: Vam <atewa...@gmail.com>
To: "\"Minds Eye\"" <mind...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Sat, 16 Feb 2019 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Free will

[archytas]

Thanks RP - we were taught as children here that Crusades were righteous!  Free will often seems to me exertion we need to make to avoid these cultural mores.

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[Rajendra Pal Singh]

Neil, crusades and jihad are wars fought in the name of religion, no such thing among the hindus but as Vam said we had wars for values like the 2nd world war, if I am not wrong .

Vam has avoided answering my questions so I will put down my own belief. There is no rebirth, what we do come as consequences in the future before us or before the next generation. That explains how USA has become a superpower through generations of work.

Again there is no afterlife but on death we become one with God as drops of water become one with the ocean. Our bad deeds are faced by the posterity, as also our good deeds.

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[archytas]

There is more at work in human affairs RP.  Science is going rather eternal in terms of no beginning.  I have no idea on any reckoning.

On Saturday, 16 February 2019 22:42:31 UTC, RP wrote:

Neil, crusades and jihad are wars fought in the name of religion, no such thing among the hindus but as Vam said we had wars for values like the 2nd world war, if I am not wrong .

Vam has avoided answering my questions so I will put down my own belief. There is no rebirth, what we do come as consequences in the future before us or before the next generation. That explains how USA has become a superpower through generations of work.

Again there is no afterlife but on death we become one with God as drops of water become one with the ocean. Our bad deeds are faced by the posterity, as also our good deeds.

On Sun 17 Feb, 2019, 1:13 AM archytas <nwt...@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks RP - we were taught as children here that Crusades were righteous!  Free will often seems to me exertion we need to make to avoid these cultural mores.

On Saturday, 16 February 2019 00:38:08 UTC, RP wrote:

Crusade or jihad are unknown in hinduism. Dharam yudha simply mean a war which is being waged for righteousness, like the 2nd world war. If I am wrong Vam will correct me.

On Sat 16 Feb, 2019, 5:39 AM archytas <nwt...@gmail.com wrote:

Is there a Hindu term for Crusade or Jihad RP?  I've heard of the Dharma Yudda.  Free will gets very difficult when we study the very small (stochastic fluctuations) or populations in evolution.

On Tuesday, 9 January 2018 13:17:50 UTC, RP wrote:

A human being works like a machine under the control of nature but we must also realize that our Will is the central part of this machine and it is in this that our freedom lies. And herein lies our accountability.Whatever we do is with our brains and hence normal people are accountable for their actions where as insane are not.

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[Rajendra Pal Singh]

The very fact that there is consciousness shows that there is a spiritual element in life, therefore there have to be spiritual laws in human affairs.

On Sun 17 Feb, 2019, 11:23 PM archytas <nwt...@gmail.com wrote:

There is more at work in human affairs RP.  Science is going rather eternal in terms of no beginning.  I have no idea on any reckoning.

On Saturday, 16 February 2019 22:42:31 UTC, RP wrote:

Neil, crusades and jihad are wars fought in the name of religion, no such thing among the hindus but as Vam said we had wars for values like the 2nd world war, if I am not wrong .

Vam has avoided answering my questions so I will put down my own belief. There is no rebirth, what we do come as consequences in the future before us or before the next generation. That explains how USA has become a superpower through generations of work.

Again there is no afterlife but on death we become one with God as drops of water become one with the ocean. Our bad deeds are faced by the posterity, as also our good deeds.

On Sun 17 Feb, 2019, 1:13 AM archytas <nwt...@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks RP - we were taught as children here that Crusades were righteous!  Free will often seems to me exertion we need to make to avoid these cultural mores.

On Saturday, 16 February 2019 00:38:08 UTC, RP wrote:

Crusade or jihad are unknown in hinduism. Dharam yudha simply mean a war which is being waged for righteousness, like the 2nd world war. If I am wrong Vam will correct me.

On Sat 16 Feb, 2019, 5:39 AM archytas <nwt...@gmail.com wrote:

Is there a Hindu term for Crusade or Jihad RP?  I've heard of the Dharma Yudda.  Free will gets very difficult when we study the very small (stochastic fluctuations) or populations in evolution.

On Tuesday, 9 January 2018 13:17:50 UTC, RP wrote:

A human being works like a machine under the control of nature but we must also realize that our Will is the central part of this machine and it is in this that our freedom lies. And herein lies our accountability.Whatever we do is with our brains and hence normal people are accountable for their actions where as insane are not.

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[Vam]

RP, I sense that the quality of your posts will lead to better conversation when you understand that Neil is neither denying nor disputing the spiritual dimension in human affairs.

He is just focused on the affairs becoming better, with more freedom and leisure enough for men to think for themselves.

[Rajendra Pal Singh]

I am thinking with freedom, my friend, but you seem to have a prejudiced notion that I am not. Further let Neil speak for himself, if you have a problem I am ready to heed it.

On Mon 18 Feb, 2019, 9:12 PM Vam <atewa...@gmail.com wrote:

RP, I sense that the quality of your posts will lead to better conversation when you understand that Neil is neither denying nor disputing the spiritual dimension in human affairs.

He is just focused on the affairs becoming better, with more freedom and leisure enough for men to think for themselves.

[allan...@gmail.com]

RP ,, I would listen to Vam. Many of us come from a different culture and are not Hindu. I find it personally fascinating the beliefs of others. I am not interested in converting some one to my view point, I must admit I like pushing buttons.
Like Vam my health is failing . I have learned a great deal from him over the years. I have received far more than I have. Our view points on reincarnation are similar they are different.
You would be wise to listen to him.. he knows your culture far better than I ever could .
 Personally I have been very  great full for the knowledge he has shared freely

 

Do No Harm

-----Original Message-----

From: Rajendra Pal Singh <123...@gmail.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Free will

[archytas]

I can't see RP as a 'Hinduist' - his values are clearly universalist.  Will as expressed in his last post are rather Greek and Nietzschean in western stuff.  I have learned from all of you.  The site of contesting various wills seems to be consciousness, though we can dispute this with science and 'robots of god' stuff.  Science has demonstrated quite a lot gets in our two brains (the enteric nervous system is as large as a cat's brain) without us being consciously aware.  In psychology (a discipline I don't like) we are investigating metacognition - broadly how we discern accurate from inaccurate performance.  This is an example:

Widening polarization about political, religious, and

scientific issues threatens open societies, leading

to entrenchment of beliefs, reduced mutual understanding, and a pervasive negativity surrounding

the very idea of consensus [1, 2]. Such radicalization

has been linked to systematic differences in the certainty with which people adhere to particular beliefs

[3–6]. However, the drivers of unjustified certainty in

radicals are rarely considered from the perspective

of models of metacognition, and it remains unknown

whether radicals show alterations in confidence bias

(a tendency to publicly espouse higher confidence),

metacognitive sensitivity (insight into the correctness of one’s beliefs), or both.

The numbers are just references.

The results were that rightists and leftists both exhibit low metacognitive sensitivity and use very low quality of evidence to support their entrenched conditions, though this depends on such as 'mood'.  It is difficult even to broach science and spirituality with most and I always found RP not part of this problem.  This particular psychology rather dismisses what I hope we four musketeers resist - that there is much good in current material societies and politics.  Something is radically missing.  In philosophic terms we need the question marks in deeper than left or right.  The paper is available free - https://www.cell.com/current-biology/pdfExtended/S0960-9822(18)31420-9 - though isn't attempting the often ineffable ground we seek.  Vam's recent Veda translation gets to that and RP's quasi-obsession with free will is likely central to a new form of argument.  I have shifted towards agnotology - how existing wrong thinking affects what we can argue about and do.  Science has its agnotological reception and many confuse its project with value-free amorality.  In fact, once you know enough science the standard project of morality and its uses collapses, particularly the crude exploitation by empires of generally racist (animal) rot.  My dog doesn't bite me, though has just been very growly because he thought he wasn't coming out for a walk!  He got his way RP!  Superior expression of will, no doubt.  He was always going to come, of course.  I was just struggling to get the bins out for collection.  Nice lad is Maxwell, who must have to control a lot in his consciousness (he lives peacefully and in some affection with a cat).  In searching for higher ground we could be a little less prissy about it all being human.

[Vam]

Polarisation of recent times comes with an inability to look benignly upon those who hold positions or views opposed to our own.

It is one step short of fascist behaviour, which sees any view irreconciliably different from our own as malignant.

This inability to embrace conflicting positions cannot be resolved with anything ideological or intellectual.

It is essentially an inability to retain happiness in our heart even while facing conflicts, opposites and contrasts. A happy man retains an embracing attitude and benignness in his eye.

[archytas]

Yes Van - though not that pathetic happiness of a new dress or trinket - all done while 'throw-away' clothes and washing machines pollute our oceans with plastic microfibres and we feed whales plastic bags.  Or that of a chattering class living on high, planning their own survival whilst pretending we are doing the sensible thing!

[Vam]

Quality of Happiness... Is a tough topic.

Pleasure, satisfaction, joy, happiness, ecstasy, bliss...

I qualify happiness by how free it is of an object or objective.
Happiness that takes no objective support is supreme.

[Rajendra Pal Singh]

Yet you can be blissful by taking certain drugs, called entheogens if I am not mistaken.

[Allan H]

If you are using to be blisful drig, you no longer have free will . Sorry yout free will is controlled by an outside source.

do no harm

[Rajendra Pal Singh]

I was just trying to point out that being blissful is not the ultimate state as some people achieve it with the use of entheogens, so it doesn't have much spiritual value.

[Allan H]

maybe work at your communication skills?

do no harm

[Rajendra Pal Singh]

You are right, Neil, we are all robots of God and yet have free will.

--

[Allan H]

well if you want to be robots of God and free will  ...   interesting you might try contemplating the solar system and how each independent and yet connected.

interesting meditation.

have fun the meditation brought interesting results.

Allan

do no harm

[Rajendra Pal Singh]

Even though bound to do what we do, we still have to exercise our will and therefore we have free will. The choice is always there, we can act according to our impulses or act according to our understanding. Our will springs from our brain which is matter, and is ruled by chemical processes. We act according to our personality which is subject to our nature and nurture.

[archytas]

Drugs don't have to take over free will - sometimes they take the edge off pain or inhibition or keep you awake to preform chores with less notion of monotony.  An ant with a fungal infection causing it to dance at lunar noon to its last chomp on a leaf (the fungus works in its muscles) might, if given an anti-fungal drug, regain what little free will an ant can have.

[archytas]

My tack at free will of late concerns "anti-agno-culture - the extent to which we can be free of learned cultural ignorance and live in radical peace with each other. Much writing on free will concerns self-restraint on biological urges, often linked to strange religious orders as the Vatican living in denial of its child abuse whilst 80% gay and homophobic itself!, allegedly chaste and celebrate and really highly sexually charged in reality.

[Vam]

Human brain decodes sensory inputs availed through five senses.

It is experienced with related karmic impressions from before, in human subconscious, alongwith current judgement of the experiencing self : like or dislike, want or no-want.

The experience itself is an emotion, a reactive feeling in one's vitality.

Will follows emotion, by the desire prompted by our judgement of the experience, objectified as an association embedded in the thing, object or being perceived, from which the sensory input is availed.

Will essentially is the drive, to desire, want or possess the object if the experience is pleasing; or to drive away, negate or remove the object (or oneself) from the encounter.

Before the will is actually unleashed, causing action, it is subjected to conscious thought, analysis and evaluation. Those who do not subject the will to examination would be categorised as brutes.

That conscious deliberation offers us the window of opportunity, instantaneous or over the longer term, to choose from seeming options and alternatives : this or that, now or later, do or not.

That is the whole story of free will. That is, I repeat, if one is not a brute !

[Rajendra Pal Singh]

You say, " will follows emotion", and again you say," will is subjected to thought". Vam, you must first decide what you mean by will.

[Rajendra Pal Singh]

At present I haven't the words to present my case but am sure that science will prove me correct in a few more years. What I feel is that will precedes emotion and thought and springs from the brain itself.

--

[ashok tewari]

RP,  you might restrain yourself telling other people what they should do.

What I've stated is what I know, in a structured composition.

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[Rajendra Pal Singh]

I am not telling you what to do, I have just asked you for an explanation. You say, " will is subjected to thought". I would have thought that it is the will which makes you think.

On Mon 25 Feb, 2019, 9:03 AM ashok tewari <atewa...@gmail.com wrote:

RP,  you might restrain yourself telling other people what they should do.

What I've stated is what I know, in a structured composition.

On Monday, February 25, 2019, Rajendra Pal Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:

You say, " will follows emotion", and again you say," will is subjected to thought". Vam, you must first decide what you mean by will.

On Mon 25 Feb, 2019, 7:41 AM Vam <atewa...@gmail.com wrote:

Human brain decodes sensory inputs availed through five senses.

It is experienced with related karmic impressions from before, in human subconscious, alongwith current judgement of the experiencing self : like or dislike, want or no-want.

The experience itself is an emotion, a reactive feeling in one's vitality.

Will follows emotion, by the desire prompted by our judgement of the experience, objectified as an association embedded in the thing, object or being perceived, from which the sensory input is availed.

Will essentially is the drive, to desire, want or possess the object if the experience is pleasing; or to drive away, negate or remove the object (or oneself) from the encounter.

Before the will is actually unleashed, causing action, it is subjected to conscious thought, analysis and evaluation. Those who do not subject the will to examination would be categorised as brutes.

That conscious deliberation offers us the window of opportunity, instantaneous or over the longer term, to choose from seeming options and alternatives : this or that, now or later, do or not.

That is the whole story of free will. That is, I repeat, if one is not a brute !

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[ashok tewari]

It is you who thinks.

It is you who has a will.

Emotions occur to you.

It is you who will act.

Will makes you think.

Will is subjected to thought.

Only a robot, unaccustomed to diverse ways of saying the same thing, will see any difference beween the last two sentences.

On Monday, February 25, 2019, Rajendra Pal Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am not telling you what to do, I have just asked you for an explanation. You say, " will is subjected to thought". I would have thought that it is the will which makes you think.

On Mon 25 Feb, 2019, 9:03 AM ashok tewari <atewa...@gmail.com wrote:

RP,  you might restrain yourself telling other people what they should do.

What I've stated is what I know, in a structured composition.

On Monday, February 25, 2019, Rajendra Pal Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:

You say, " will follows emotion", and again you say," will is subjected to thought". Vam, you must first decide what you mean by will.

On Mon 25 Feb, 2019, 7:41 AM Vam <atewa...@gmail.com wrote:

Human brain decodes sensory inputs availed through five senses.

It is experienced with related karmic impressions from before, in human subconscious, alongwith current judgement of the experiencing self : like or dislike, want or no-want.

The experience itself is an emotion, a reactive feeling in one's vitality.

Will follows emotion, by the desire prompted by our judgement of the experience, objectified as an association embedded in the thing, object or being perceived, from which the sensory input is availed.

Will essentially is the drive, to desire, want or possess the object if the experience is pleasing; or to drive away, negate or remove the object (or oneself) from the encounter.

Before the will is actually unleashed, causing action, it is subjected to conscious thought, analysis and evaluation. Those who do not subject the will to examination would be categorised as brutes.

That conscious deliberation offers us the window of opportunity, instantaneous or over the longer term, to choose from seeming options and alternatives : this or that, now or later, do or not.

That is the whole story of free will. That is, I repeat, if one is not a brute !

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[Rajendra Pal Singh]

In other words, man has free will because he can reason out things and after understanding all options, he can exercise his will to do this or that. But who has given you the faculty of reason and understanding, you have received it through your genes, which are God-given, and hence you are bound.

But, in relative terms, we are free because we always have a choice, and are this accountable for our action and thoughts.

On Mon 25 Feb, 2019, 7:41 AM Vam <atewa...@gmail.com wrote:

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[ashok tewari]

RP, I am inclined to concede that your will is relatively free.

As for mine, it is absolute. No effing God interferes with my freedom to will as I please. And, indeed, to do what I want to do. 

On Monday, February 25, 2019, Rajendra Pal Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Rajendra Pal Singh]

If , by chance, your leg gets broken I don't think you would have much freedom to walk. 

On Mon 25 Feb, 2019, 11:18 AM ashok tewari <atewa...@gmail.com wrote:

RP, I am inclined to concede that your will is relatively free.

As for mine, it is absolute. No effing God interferes with my freedom to will as I please. And, indeed, to do what I want to do. 

On Monday, February 25, 2019, Rajendra Pal Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:

In other words, man has free will because he can reason out things and after understanding all options, he can exercise his will to do this or that. But who has given you the faculty of reason and understanding, you have received it through your genes, which are God-given, and hence you are bound.

But, in relative terms, we are free because we always have a choice, and are this accountable for our action and thoughts.

On Mon 25 Feb, 2019, 7:41 AM Vam <atewa...@gmail.com wrote:

Human brain decodes sensory inputs availed through five senses.

It is experienced with related karmic impressions from before, in human subconscious, alongwith current judgement of the experiencing self : like or dislike, want or no-want.

The experience itself is an emotion, a reactive feeling in one's vitality.

Will follows emotion, by the desire prompted by our judgement of the experience, objectified as an association embedded in the thing, object or being perceived, from which the sensory input is availed.

Will essentially is the drive, to desire, want or possess the object if the experience is pleasing; or to drive away, negate or remove the object (or oneself) from the encounter.

Before the will is actually unleashed, causing action, it is subjected to conscious thought, analysis and evaluation. Those who do not subject the will to examination would be categorised as brutes.

That conscious deliberation offers us the window of opportunity, instantaneous or over the longer term, to choose from seeming options and alternatives : this or that, now or later, do or not.

That is the whole story of free will. That is, I repeat, if one is not a brute !

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[ashok tewari]

Why the hell would I want to walk with a broken leg ?

I'll let it pass as a stupid argument alongwith others like, flying as a bird, being Bill Gates, etc.

On Monday, February 25, 2019, Rajendra Pal Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:

If , by chance, your leg gets broken I don't think you would have much freedom to walk. 

On Mon 25 Feb, 2019, 11:18 AM ashok tewari <atewa...@gmail.com wrote:

RP, I am inclined to concede that your will is relatively free.

As for mine, it is absolute. No effing God interferes with my freedom to will as I please. And, indeed, to do what I want to do. 

On Monday, February 25, 2019, Rajendra Pal Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:

In other words, man has free will because he can reason out things and after understanding all options, he can exercise his will to do this or that. But who has given you the faculty of reason and understanding, you have received it through your genes, which are God-given, and hence you are bound.

But, in relative terms, we are free because we always have a choice, and are this accountable for our action and thoughts.

On Mon 25 Feb, 2019, 7:41 AM Vam <atewa...@gmail.com wrote:

Human brain decodes sensory inputs availed through five senses.

It is experienced with related karmic impressions from before, in human subconscious, alongwith current judgement of the experiencing self : like or dislike, want or no-want.

The experience itself is an emotion, a reactive feeling in one's vitality.

Will follows emotion, by the desire prompted by our judgement of the experience, objectified as an association embedded in the thing, object or being perceived, from which the sensory input is availed.

Will essentially is the drive, to desire, want or possess the object if the experience is pleasing; or to drive away, negate or remove the object (or oneself) from the encounter.

Before the will is actually unleashed, causing action, it is subjected to conscious thought, analysis and evaluation. Those who do not subject the will to examination would be categorised as brutes.

That conscious deliberation offers us the window of opportunity, instantaneous or over the longer term, to choose from seeming options and alternatives : this or that, now or later, do or not.

That is the whole story of free will. That is, I repeat, if one is not a brute !

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[Rajendra Pal Singh]

I am just trying to show you that human will is bound by many limitations, of which we are not even aware, your very reasoning faculty is bound by your genes and the sort of environment you got in childhood and adolescence. What you have read with active interest and the views you developed , you were predisposed to do just that. 

On Mon 25 Feb, 2019, 2:17 PM ashok tewari <atewa...@gmail.com wrote:

Why the hell would I want to walk with a broken leg ?

I'll let it pass as a stupid argument alongwith others like, flying as a bird, being Bill Gates, etc.

On Monday, February 25, 2019, Rajendra Pal Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:

If , by chance, your leg gets broken I don't think you would have much freedom to walk. 

On Mon 25 Feb, 2019, 11:18 AM ashok tewari <atewa...@gmail.com wrote:

RP, I am inclined to concede that your will is relatively free.

As for mine, it is absolute. No effing God interferes with my freedom to will as I please. And, indeed, to do what I want to do. 

On Monday, February 25, 2019, Rajendra Pal Singh <123...@gmail.com> wrote:

In other words, man has free will because he can reason out things and after understanding all options, he can exercise his will to do this or that. But who has given you the faculty of reason and understanding, you have received it through your genes, which are God-given, and hence you are bound.

But, in relative terms, we are free because we always have a choice, and are this accountable for our action and thoughts.

On Mon 25 Feb, 2019, 7:41 AM Vam <atewa...@gmail.com wrote:

Human brain decodes sensory inputs availed through five senses.

It is experienced with related karmic impressions from before, in human subconscious, alongwith current judgement of the experiencing self : like or dislike, want or no-want.

The experience itself is an emotion, a reactive feeling in one's vitality.

Will follows emotion, by the desire prompted by our judgement of the experience, objectified as an association embedded in the thing, object or being perceived, from which the sensory input is availed.

Will essentially is the drive, to desire, want or possess the object if the experience is pleasing; or to drive away, negate or remove the object (or oneself) from the encounter.

Before the will is actually unleashed, causing action, it is subjected to conscious thought, analysis and evaluation. Those who do not subject the will to examination would be categorised as brutes.

That conscious deliberation offers us the window of opportunity, instantaneous or over the longer term, to choose from seeming options and alternatives : this or that, now or later, do or not.

That is the whole story of free will. That is, I repeat, if one is not a brute !

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[Vam]

I DO NOT accept in the least the purpose behind such argumentation.

Let me state : If I really want to walk even with a broken leg, nothing in the universe can stop me from doing so, not even the God you worship !

[Rajendra Pal Singh]

Once in 11th class the reverend who taught us maths called the brightest boy in the class and asked him to solve a geometry problem on the blackboard. The boy solved it but I stood up and said, " Brother, I don't understand." The reverend looked at me and coolly said, " I can't give you understanding".

Thus it happens sometimes, we are unable to understand the other person's viewpoint .

On Tue 19 Feb, 2019, 6:44 AM <allan...@gmail.com wrote:

RP ,, I would listen to Vam. Many of us come from a different culture and are not Hindu. I find it personally fascinating the beliefs of others. I am not interested in converting some one to my view point, I must admit I like pushing buttons.
Like Vam my health is failing . I have learned a great deal from him over the years. I have received far more than I have. Our view points on reincarnation are similar they are different.
You would be wise to listen to him.. he knows your culture far better than I ever could .
 Personally I have been very  great full for the knowledge he has shared freely
 

Do No Harm

-----Original Message-----
From: Rajendra Pal Singh <123...@gmail.com>
To: mind...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Free will

I am thinking with freedom, my friend, but you seem to have a prejudiced notion that I am not. Further let Neil speak for himself, if you have a problem I am ready to heed it.

On Mon 18 Feb, 2019, 9:12 PM Vam <atewa...@gmail.com wrote:

RP, I sense that the quality of your posts will lead to better conversation when you understand that Neil is neither denying nor disputing the spiritual dimension in human affairs.

He is just focused on the affairs becoming better, with more freedom and leisure enough for men to think for themselves.

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[Zenom]

FATE & FEAT

(during the conversation period duTHEcope, from Sep 17, 2015 to early 2016)

i say: “one has total freewill?”

the silent voice replies: “not quite!”

nevertheless, 4 “the forbidden sin” CONTEXT :

**everybody has total freewill, regardless of one own’s circumstance**

everybody be 4 ONESELF in determining one OWN’s continuing being: Existential Responsibility

since “the forbidden sin” - as its so-called imply - can NOT be forgiven

do the crime and then pay the time

[Allan H]

RPS, I have read you for several years and for me your ramblings. lol ,,, well I don't see me running to follow or even really listen to what you have say. You remind of an Evangelical fundamentalist bible thumper.

lot of words little actual comprehension.

so sad to bad.

do no harm

[Allan H]

Vam you can not even discuss concepts with those who can not comprehend. According RPS no one understands as RPS does because after all he is enlightened.😱

do no harm

On Mon, Feb 25, 2019, 10:08 Vam <atewa...@gmail.com> wrote:

I DO NOT accept in the least the purpose behind such argumentation.

Let me state : If I really want to walk even with a broken leg, nothing in the universe can stop me from doing so, not even the God you worship !

[Allan H]

RPS, actually I do understand what you are saying, geometry years ago was fasinating including the 3 4 5 triangle ,, your problem is you seem to have a basic in ability to communicate effectively.. I know I have same problem , incomplete sentences.  ect in my case my mind running faster than my pen..  and I have a ¿habit? of functioning in different realities at the same time. is it Atman the one you see as candy man? I guess meditation could be considered as candy..

oh well, I will go back to contemplating can be one and separate at the same time. Or just being silent.. 

Vam how do I buy a copy of your books

Allan

do no harm

[archytas]

The science on this is tough.  We live consciously in the past.