Rupert Spira - looking for the screen when you're already looking at it (or, looking for your glasses when they're on your nose)

[Don Salmon]

STUDENT: It’s just a frustration I have doing this sort of thing for 40 years now, and not being awake. A lot of times it’s okay, but some of the times, like the last couple of days, it’s not ok.

RUPERT: You’re not awake?

STUDENT: You know what I mean. This shift you talked about this morning. “Ah, this is the way it is!” I would settle for that. It doesn’t have to be dramatic. I’ve read a lot of books about the dramatic, that’s really what I want. But I’ll settle for the. “Ah.” Now I have those in small increments. I’m not saying I don’t have any. I’m just explaining to you what’s happening with me. I just feel the need to say it, okay? That I just want to hit my head on the wall and just say, “Wake up! Wake up!” I’m just so sick of this illusory separate one. And as you just said, serving your, I mean, I’m exhausted. You know, I’m getting old, I’m getting tired. This has been my main focus for 40 years. And you did say once to me, the desire for liberation is important. But I know that hitting my head against the wall is not very productive, so… I find it placed somewhere….

RUPERT: You’re still expecting something to happen.

Student: Unfortunately, yes.

 

Enlightenment is not an event. It’s not a marvelous event. It’s not a mundane event… It’s not something that happens.

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RUPERT: That’s the problem. You still conceive of enlightenment as a marvelous event. Okay, you’ve agreed to settle for not-so-marvelous event. But, nevertheless, you still want quite a nice event. Yes, just something. You still want something. That’s it. That’s the problem.

Enlightenment is not an event. It’s not a marvelous event. It’s not a mundane event. It’s not any kind of an event. It’s not something that happens.

STUDENT: A shift. I’ve heard it explained as a shift.

RUPERT: Even that is to say too much. No, it’s not even an event. It’s a concession to the inadequacies of language to call it a shift or an event. Let’s say you’re watching TV. You’re watching a movie. And you’re looking at a favorite view, the landscape. Someone comes in and says to you, “Look at the screen.” What do you do?

STUDENT: Well, if there’s  something on the screen, I can’t really see the screen, unless there is no image there, or I can see through it, or…

RUPERT: No, when you’re looking at a TV, the TV’s off. Yes? You just look at the blank TV, you’re seeing the screen. Yes? You turn the movie on, the screen doesn’t disappear. You’re still looking at the screen, but the screen now appears as a landscape. You get involved in the movie, it’s a wonderful film. You get totally involved in it. You forget that you’re seeing a screen. You think that you’re seeing a landscape.  So your friend comes in and says, “What are you looking at? What are you seeing?” and you say, “I’m seeing this marvelous landscape.” And your friend says to you, “Look at the screen.”

Are you not already seeing the screen? Are you not already looking at it?

STUDENT: In the form of a landscape.

RUPERT: Yes, but it’s the same screen. It’s exactly the same screen that was there before you turned the movie on. It appears now it’s taken the shape of a landscape, but it’s still the same screen. The screen hasn’t disappeared. Yeah? So, would you say that to see the screen was a new event? Is it a marvelous experience in the movie?

STUDENT: Not in that metaphor, no.

RUPERT: Does the screen even show up in the movie?

STUDENT: No.

RUPERT: What you’re looking for is an event in the movie. You’re still subtly imagining that enlightenment is a wonderful, even a not-so-wonderful event, in the movie. And as long as you’re looking for it in the movie, you’re going to seem not seeing the screen, because your attention is focused on objects. So what do you have to do, when you’re looking at the landscape, what do you have to do to see the screen?

STUDENT: In that metaphor, nothing.

 

Enlightenment is… not something that was lost and now has to be found. At best we could say it was overlooked.

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RUPERT: Yes, the screen is not something new that comes in. Enlightenment is not something that is new. It’s not something that was lost and now has to be found. At best, and even this is not quite true, at best we could say it was overlooked, due to our fascination with the drama in the movie. That is, the drama of body, mind and world. Due to our fascination, our exclusive fascination with these appearances, we seem to have  lost sight of that reality, the screen. And as a result of that we think, “Oh, I must go looking for it.” And off we go around the world visiting teachers and ashrams and everything. We go on this terrific journey around the world, which is like the character in the movie searching for the screen.

So now you are searching, the equivalent in your life, you are looking, character in the movie traveling around the world looking for the screen. In other words, you are looking–in the mind and the body in your case, not in the world–in the mind and body for some special experience which is, “Ah, that’s it. That’s the shift, that’s the event. Now I’m on the other side of the fence.” There isn’t a fence that you finally cross to get to enlightenment. Enlightenment is like the moment you recognize the screen in the movie. The moment you recognize it, simultaneous with that recognition, you recognize, “Oh, I was always seeing the screen. I never really ceased seeing the screen. But only because of my fascination with the drama in the movie that it seemed to be absent—the screen—and as a result of that apparent absence, I went off into the world searching for it.”

STUDENT: I was always the screen, right? That’s the next step.

RUPERT: Yes, you have never, for a fraction of a second, ceased being the presence of awareness—unlimited, ever-present awareness. You have never ceased to be that.

STUDENT: I feel that more and more but this illusory separate self, sometimes she’s  kind of melting away, becoming more vague, you know. And I go, wow, great, it’s starting to disappear.

RUPERT: Why do you want it to disappear? What you’re saying, the equivalent in our metaphor of what you’re saying is–you’re watching this period drama, there are lots of characters, and this one woman in the movie, what you’re saying is that “until that woman gets out of the movie, I can’t see the screen. Only when she leaves the movie, only then will I notice the screen.” That’s what you’re saying.

STUDENT: Well, as you said earlier, all the energy that is spent on her, to no avail…

RUPERT: But whose problem is she? For the screen, is this troublesome woman in the movie a problem? She might be a problem for one of the other characters, but she’s not a problem for the screen. Awareness doesn’t have problems, doesn’t know problems. Why? Because in order for there to be a problem, there needs to be resistance.  There needs to be the, “I don’t like this.” That’s what makes a situation a problem.

 

The separate self is perpetuating itself by trying to get rid of itself.

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But awareness is like empty space, it’s never saying to the current experience, “I don’t like you.” And therefore it doesn’t have problems. So it’s not saying, “Oh, my horrible separate self needs to be got rid of. I’m fed up with her.” The “I” that is fed up with her is another form of her self. In other words, the separate self is perpetuating itself by trying to get rid of itself. And so you’re caught in this bind from which you’re understandably tired—of trying to get rid of your self. I, the separate self, want to get rid of my self so that I the separate self can experience enlightenment.  And you’re going round and round and round, and you’re rightly frustrated and disheartened, because you’re engaged in a never-ending endeavor, which is perpetuating a separate self by trying to get rid of it.

Just see the situation clearly. You cannot get rid of an illusion. To really see it would bring that endeavor to an end, because what you have to do to get rid of the landscape when you’re watching, you can’t do anything because the landscape is not really there. What can you do to an illusion, what do you need to do to an illusion just to see that it’s an illusion. Don’t spend your life trying to get rid of an illusion. It’s a waste of a lifetime.

STUDENT: What I mean by trying to get rid of it is to see it as an illusion.

RUPERT: Okay, now to see that what you are is not a separate limited self, is it not clear to you now that you are the one that is aware of your experience? Okay, now, if you were to turn your attention towards that One, where do you go?

STUDENT: Nowhere.

RUPERT: No. can you even turn towards it, which direction. So how can it be separate or limited if you can’t find it as any kind of an object. You answered both those questions from your experience. That was obviously true, so if you cannot find the awareness that you know your self to be, if you don’t know where to look for it, how do you know that it has a limit or that it is separate. Only an object could be limited or separate. Exactly, you don’t know that. Right there, right there, in that understanding–and I can see you’re answering these questions from understanding, not because you’ve read books–right there is the knowledge that what you are has no limits. Just live what you understand.  Take your stand there. That one, that awareness, is always wide awake.

Enlightenment is not for awareness. Awareness is already the light that illumines all experience, that makes all experience knowable. It can’t be enlightened. What would enlighten it? It is already the Light that makes experience knowable.

STUDENT: One definition of awakening I’ve heard is awareness recognizes itself.

RUPERT: Are you aware right now? Yeah? How do you know that you are aware? How come you answered yes to that question?

STUDENT: Self-evident.

RUPERT: It’s self-evident. To whom is it self-evident that you are aware?

STUDENT: To itself.

 

Enlightenment is a fancy name for the most simple, most ordinary…  experience that is. All 7 billion of us know it.

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RUPERT: Right there is the experience of awareness being aware of itself. That’s it. It never gets better than that. You were the one, and quite rightly, who defined enlightenment as awareness being aware of itself. And then I asked you the question, “Are you aware?” and from your own intimate experience, you answered “Yes.” In other words, I, awareness, am aware that I am aware. Nothing else can be aware that I’m aware. In other words, enlightenment is a fancy name for the most simple, most ordinary, the most well-known experience that is. All seven billion of us know it.

However, because it cannot be found by the mind, in most cases it is deemed missing. And as a result of that, the peace and the happiness that are inherent in it are also considered missing. And hence the imaginary self goes off into the world in search of the missing peace and happiness. And as we all know, it doesn’t live there. Where does it live? In the simple knowing of our own being. It’s knowing of itself, that is, awareness’s awareness of awareness. And it is your innermost experience at all times. It’s not a new experience. It’s not something that has been lost and has to be found. At worst, we could say it has been overlooked, apparently. The screen has been overlooked due to our exclusive fascination with the body, the mind, and the world.

All that’s necessary is just relax the focus of your attention from the body, mind and the world. You don’t have to get rid of them, just cease being exclusively focused on anything. It’s like withdrawing your attention, it’s like putting the camera slightly out of focus. Your attention flows back to its source which is your self. You just stand as this space of awareness. You just let the body, the mind and the world do whatever they’ve been conditioned to do. Just let them flow by.

STUDENT: So I was gonna ask you what you meant more by “stand.”

RUPERT: To stand as awareness.

STUDENT: But you just gave another way of experiencing it.

RUPERT: I’ll just say something about that. The suggestion to stand as awareness would seem to be given to someone who is not presently standing as awareness and who might do so in the future. So to say that is a concession to the belief that we are a separate self. It doesn’t really make sense, but it’s sometimes used in the context of the conversation. What would be more accurate would be to say: Be, knowingly, the presence of awareness. The reason I say “knowingly” is, just to say “Be the presence of awareness,” you already are that. You’ve never been anything other than eternal, infinite awareness. So hence, “Be knowingly that.” Know that you are that. That’s what I mean by, “Take your stand as that.”

STUDENT: Yeah, I can feel that. I know what you mean ‘cause I…

RUPERT: You can’t actually be anything other than that. Another way of saying would be, just notice that you are that. Instead of mistaking yourself for a cluster of thoughts and feelings, just notice, “Oh, no, I’m the one that is aware of those. I’m not a cluster of thoughts and feelings. All these flow by. But I’m not flowing by. I’m just always here.” I would recommend really forgetting about enlightenment.

STUDENT: I don’t think that’s gonna happen.

RUPERT: No, what I mean is that–forgetting about enlightenment because of this tendency you have to conceive of it as an event. You don’t have to read any more books. Another question to ask yourself is just to look for that which is ever-present in your experience, and just stay with that. Just look in all experience for that which is always there. It’s looking for the screen in the movie. You don’t have to look for it. It’s actually staring itself in the face. What is always present in experience, just the knowing of it. This knowing runs through all experience. That’s it. Just be with that. Just allow that to come from the background into the foreground.

- See more at: http://www.meditationplex.com/nondual-awareness/find-enlightenment-rupert-spira/#GTTabs_ul_644

[Peter Jones]

Brilliant.  It's all so down-to-earth in the end. Thanks Don. 

 

[George]

Ah, he's good. eh. There's loads of this in his book, "Presence". Recommended.

[tjssailor]

Well to me enlightenment was an event.  To go from thinking I was a separate individualized consciousness to the sudden knowing (after asking to know the answer out of desperation)  that all consciousness is One was a definite event!

[Don Salmon]

George, I'm eagerly looking forward to how you'll answer TJ.  This should be good:>)

On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 10:29 AM, tjssailor <thomas.j...@nasa.gov> wrote:

Well to me enlightenment was an event.  To go from thinking I was a separate individualized consciousness to the sudden knowing (after asking to know the answer out of desperation)  that all consciousness is One was a definite event!

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[BB Conklin]

Spira has the best self-inquiry process out there along with maybe Adyashanti.

 

When meditating ask "Who Am I"?

 

I am Brian.

 

If I changed my name to Peter tomorrow, would I cease to exist? Then no, I am not Brian.

 

Go through this process until all objects are eliminated from awareness. You will then be left with the pure subjective "I Am" awareness. The seeker disappears. Think "Who is trying to be enlightened?" Go back to the source of your thoughts. Experience what is witnessing your thoughts. What is witnessing your feelings. That is the I Am. Think of looking out a window. You're generally so focused on the objects on the outside of the window that you don't see your own reflection. "See" your own reflection..

[benjayk]

Perhaps I am just being blockheaded but I find these kind of conversations quite confusing and everything but down-to-earth.

The metaphor with the movie seems to not make sense to me. A movie is something I merely see. But I am alive.
I am not watching my life go by, and if I do I feel dissociated and not the least bit "enlightened".

All this talk of awareness presumes I know what that means. But I don't really.
I can sorta use it practically but at the end of the day the word doesn't seem to mean much. It's just a word.
I guess it's just an incredibly vague pointer but it seems pretty meaningless to me.

Sometimes I get the sense most spiritual teacher have no clue what they are talking about. Now and then they even admit if you listen closely.
I guess they really want to help or enjoy talking, but when it comes down to it their intellects aren't actually able to express themselves and all they can do is produce semi-profound philosophical ramblings.
Sure enough sometimes they say things that strike me as poetic, profound and insightful, but similarly I am often frustrated by their ramblings, speculation and stupid opinions (for examples Osho's statements on homosexuality) or downright immoral behaviour.
It's confusing. Probably it just reflects my belief that a wise, peaceful and free person shouldn't say such things.
Perhaps the intellect really isn't all that relevant at all. Maybe your intellect can even be deluded at times and it doesn't necessarily matter spiritually.

[George]

The point is, it can't really be described, only pointed to. You could look up Douglas Harding and try his experiments. The point is that awareness is the background to your experience, all the time, but you don't notice it because of the distracting content of your experience - you don't notice the "space that it's all occurring in".

Try pointing to your face right now. Direct your attention to where your finger is pointed to, and see what's there. Where are you looking out from? What are you looking out from?

[George]

Also - Greg Goode's book, The Direct Path, has good stuff in it also - and the first three chapters of Standing As Awareness pretty much tell you all you need to know.

[BB Conklin]

You're already enlightened. You just need to "awake" to it. It's rather pointless to try to "explain " enlightenment. Just work towards enlightenment. Enlightenment is confusing because it's so simple. Everything you think you are is exactly what you are not. It's a state of consciousness. The egoic self trying to understand awareness is hopeless. Your need to see that which witnesses your egoic self. Your egoic self has to get out of the way. That's why we have koans and the like.

 

Just go through the self-inquiry process. Remove all objects from your consciousness and what's left is pure subjective awareness, the "I AM", Big Mind. It is never gone, it is always there. IT always has been there. It always will be. It's is infinite.

[George]

Ah! Can you describe the experience in more detail? :-)

Interested too: has the experience persisted as an experience, or is it more something that you just know now.

[BB Conklin]

It is NOT experience. Experience has a beginning and an end. Awareness is always there. You can go there anytime you want. It's pure being in the moment. No expectations, no worries. Just pure being. Joy. Peace. After you get good at going there over and over, it just sort of becomes your default state. Amazing bliss. You realize nothing real can be threatened, nothing unreal exists. You will not die. You are already happy. You don't need to achieve or acquire anything. There is nothing to do but be happy and at peace. You just live your life as I AM. Sure your egoic self still exists, but you don't identify with it. It's not a big deal when things happen, because they don't happen to YOU, they happen to your egoic self, which isn't real. 

[George]

Indeed - I was interested in TJ's description though

[Don Salmon]

here's another one

place an object in front of you, say, an apple.

look at the apple.

Now, close your eyes, and imagine looking at the apple.

Alternate a few times - look at the apple external to the body, and look at the imagined apple.

As you are alternating, note that "looking" is common to both.

Now, sustain your attention a bit longer on the imagined apple.

Then, "erase" the apple. You're left with just looking, or "awaring."

Just stay with that.  It's the same awaring whether eyes are open or closed.

Be with, recognize this awaring as the always-present background (it's not really "behind"; the direction is only metaphorical; it's not "in" space but space is "in" it; but that's not right either because that's still a geographical term!!) of all experience.

Enjoy

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[tjssailor]

I was going through a sudden great fear of death, panic attacks the whole nine yards, that came over me for no apparent reason.  I started reading about NDEs to try and understand what death is.  At one point I told "God" I had to KNOW not just believe what life is and what is really going on or I wouldn't be able to function.   Afterwards I realized that the only way others could be suffering as I was is that if the Consciousness they were was exactly as my Consciousness.  It was impossible for Consciousness to be an in individualized function. We are all actually One.
It was like a switch flipping.  An ultimate empathic event that led to understanding.   Turns out the NDErs were saying the same thing.  After that it was impossible to think of myself as an individual again.

[George]

Nice. So really, it's a change of perspective, no? To see what was going on anyway?

[tjssailor]

Undeniably.

[benjayk]

Well practically speaking I sense my face. But that is not what is meant.
Other than that I'm getting confused because I try to find out what I am actually supposed to do.
I have no clue what I am supposed to find or look at. After a while it gets quite exhausting and confusing.

I feel doubts that I may not be sincere enough or focused enough to look in the way I am supposed to.

[Don Salmon]

here's another approach, Ben. In most contemplative traditions, the philosophic/pointing out approach that people are suggesting here is balanced with intense meditative practice. 

Maybe your meditation muscles need to be strengthened?

Here's what Alan Wallace suggests.

Count your respirations. "1" on the in breath, then silence exhaling.  Count to 10, but if you lose track, go back to 1. If you get to 10, go back to 1,.  

Continue doing this daily until you can count without losing track for 1 hour.  

Then let go of counting and just be with the breath.  Thoughts and images may come and go, but keep doing this until you can be with the breath for 1 hour without losing focus.

Then re-read what Rupert Spira says. It will be immediately apparent; if not, I'll eat a whirlpool of consciousness (with salt and pepper, of course).

[George]

Yes, that's a problem - trying to know what you are supposed to find, particularly since the answer is subtle. I'll tell you: if you direct your attention to where you are looking out of, you find... nothing. Just empty space. Where "you" would be or where your head would be, there's a blank space. Then you find this blank space is everywhere, and your vision sits inside it, as do all the other things you are sensing.

Other approaches, let your attention follow to the edge of your vision and keep going. Check this self-portrait by Ernst Mach:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3020/3083367042_417b4af767.jpg

Where is his head?

[George]

I liken it to those "magic eye" pictures, where suddenly you have them recontextualised. But really, it's a dropping away of the imagining-stuff-on-top-of-your-experience.

[benjayk]

Yes, I do think so, too.
I prefer open-ended freestyle meditation. Where I am relaxing while being mindful.

Unfortunately most of the time I am so restless and in resistance that I am not willing to meditate or something?? Or really I don't know what to do, I guess...
It's as if telling a 3 year old, "be still and focus".

I am just running around like a headless chicken.
In that case I am glad if I can relax a little bit instead of feeling I am not being good enough and should be more mindful.

To be honest it feels like I am (currently) mostly a bit too chaotic to use structures things that take discipline. I think it will end up being a struggle. Really even convincing myself of using techniques seems like a struggle.
I guess I just have to take the way through the wilderness. After all you can't always rely on counting breath or other techniques anyway right?

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[Don Salmon]

I don't understand. What do you mean "can't always rely?"  I've been using breath counting when I want to have deeper concentration for decades.  I think I 'needed' techniques many years ago. Generally for some years I find techniques get in the way. But even now, I may sit to meditate (yes, I still do it 2x a day:>) and my mind is a bit focused, and I'll find the best thing is a few minutes of breath counting or more often, breath watching. 

You can twist and get confused and go all over the place for ever. and maybe you don't need to meditate at all. it may be that your life and your sense of goals are unclear, but that's not for me to say.  One thing you can do, is just say, I'll try an experiment.  Try for 3 months, every day, 2x a day, just do it. You may spend the entire 30 minutes (or whatever time you choose) with your mind all over the place.  But be a scientist. Do the experiment. find out what's happening.  And let us know:>))

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[RHC]

Great thread! Another book purchased, sigh..

>but keep doing this until you can be with the breath for 1 hour without losing focus.

Well I have been doing 'the experiment' for about a month now and I don't seem to be able to keep focus without intruding thoughts for more than a minute or two.  Though having said that one does lose track of time when meditating. Certainly its not an hour so I think I will try the counting technique.  Don you should tell Ben your thoughts on intention when meditating. They helped me. 

[benjayk]

Yes, I think sort of get that.

The thing is looking for anything or trying to warp my attention tends to feel quite unnatural and confusing.
Really it seems it is easiest to just accept I don't have to care about any of that at all. It's entirely optional.
Often I am quite haunted by the feeling of having to do stuff when actually I am just very tired and don't genuinely care.

[Don Salmon]

actually, if you don't care, then why meditate?  Meditation is not for relaxation (well, it can be, but that's not it's main purpose).  If you really get into this stuff seriously, despite what you read in all these nice non dual books, you can get into some pretty dark places.

Anthony Damiani (Paul Brunton's student) used to almost chase people away when they came to him to meditate. He wanted to make sure they were serious; no babying of them.

if you don't want to do it, don't do it.  This whole business about "effort" is a very late 20th century, early 21st century American/European middle class, late capitalist society thing.  Back in the "old days", you didn't read a book, you may know absolutely nothing about anything (in fact, you were probably illiterate). you went to a teacher, and they said, "watch your breath"

Period.

watch your breath.  If you asked any more, they'd probably hand you a broom and say, "Start sweeping."

I realize that's just not the way the modern psyche works, but it's not bad to keep in mind.  

Maybe this will help Ben, If you've been here any length of time, you've probably picked up the fact that I read a lot (understatement). But i learned many many years ago (probably took me about 10 years after i started meditating to really get this - and I started in the mid 70s), that there's VERY little you need to know for practice. If you read the Rupert Spira excerpt, and you know about counting and watching your breath, the only thing I would add has nothing to do with knowledge or meditation techniques. 

The only other things do know are what everyone already knows about living a balanced life, but almost nobody puts in practice:

- eat healthy foods

- get plenty of exercise, especially outdoors in the fresh air

- get plenty of good sleep

- in your daily interactions, learn to be a caring, compassionate, kind and giving person. In fact, having support for living a balanced life is crucial, but even more important is giving that support to others.

Keep your environment simple and beautiful, and best way to do this is live according to your needs, not your desires.

There. Now you know everything you need to know about a spiritual life.  When you go "inside" - and ask yourself, what do i really want? And try to filter out a life time of being bombarded by commercials, and just look sincerely, if you don't want to meditate and don't have any real interest in spirituality, that's fine. Maybe you're meant to be famous and wealthy, or maybe you're just meant to be a good neighbor. That's fine too.  Or maybe you'll be a great crook.  If that's your destiny ,well, that's it.

When you really get a clear sense of what you want (at least, this is what I've found), everything else follows. Be healthy, care for others, do some simple meditation to get your mind clear, and learn to look, to knowingly stand as awareness.

it couldn't be simpler. 

I just would add a bit of mysticism to it - if you do this, sincerely, after some time, "something" ( I dare not name it here:>))) will start taking over. 

I've already said too much!

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[benjayk]

Well I only meant it's not the cure for everything in life or something like that. It may be a good technique (for some), but it is also *just* a good technique.
Technique only goes so far. Life obviously is far more than that.

As I said I like to "meditate" in a free-form way. A couple of times I was quite suprised how varied and powerful it is. And at least sometimes it provides some rest and focus.
A commitment like you suggest would just be stress for me, right now. Really often as soon as I start trying to apply a technique I am already lost in my stressful mind. It's probably pathetic but I just want to be honest about it.
I am not disciplined. So what, that's how I am right now. It's certainly good to have some discipline but if it becomes force I feel it's just another opportunity to struggle with myself. Why bother. I am struggling more than enough already.

[benjayk]

Am Montag, 22. September 2014 20:07:59 UTC+2 schrieb Don Salmon:

actually, if you don't care, then why meditate?  Meditation is not for relaxation (well, it can be, but that's not it's main purpose).  If you really get into this stuff seriously, despite what you read in all these nice non dual books, you can get into some pretty dark places.

Right, exactly.

I know what you are speaking of when you talk about meditation leading to dark places. Sometimes it can be uncomfortable, sometimes it can actually be relieving to unconver that.
But at the end I also get the sense: Yes nice, but there is nothing special about that. So I think it's good not to get hung up on that either.

The only other things do know are what everyone already knows about living a balanced life, but almost nobody puts in practice:

- eat healthy foods

- get plenty of exercise, especially outdoors in the fresh air

- get plenty of good sleep

- in your daily interactions, learn to be a caring, compassionate, kind and giving person. In fact, having support for living a balanced life is crucial, but even more important is giving that support to others.

 

Keep your environment simple and beautiful, and best way to do this is live according to your needs, not your desires.

Yep, I think those are good things to keep in mind. But as you say it's about the practice. If I lay in bed with not appetite whatsoever and an incredibly lethargy it is everything but trivial to put any of those things into practice. So then it mainly seems to be about compassion and patience towards myself.
OK, I am fucked up and I am doing nothing I should be doing. Can I still accept myself and not create more stress?
 

There. Now you know everything you need to know about a spiritual life.  When you go "inside" - and ask yourself, what do i really want? And try to filter out a life time of being bombarded by commercials, and just look sincerely, if you don't want to meditate and don't have any real interest in spirituality, that's fine. Maybe you're meant to be famous and wealthy, or maybe you're just meant to be a good neighbor. That's fine too.  Or maybe you'll be a great crook.  If that's your destiny ,well, that's it.

Most of the time I really have no clue what I want. Heck, I don't even know whether to get up or stay in bed or whether I want to eat.
So at this point spirituality doesn't seem to mean all that much either. I tend to think about this stuff  a lot and "feel" it's "important", but to be frank I feel closest to what spirituality is seemingly describing when I don't give a fuck about being spiritual. It's just another cultural construct. It can be useful, it can be baggage, it can be really harmful (cults etc...).

I just would add a bit of mysticism to it - if you do this, sincerely, after some time, "something" ( I dare not name it here:>))) will start taking over. 

I think I know what you mean because at times something is happening that has little to do with the usual conditioned sense of "me".

On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 1:57 PM, benjayk <benjamin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, I think sort of get that.

The thing is looking for anything or trying to warp my attention tends to feel quite unnatural and confusing.
Really it seems it is easiest to just accept I don't have to care about any of that at all. It's entirely optional.
Often I am quite haunted by the feeling of having to do stuff when actually I am just very tired and don't genuinely care.

Am Montag, 22. September 2014 19:05:40 UTC+2 schrieb George:

Yes, that's a problem - trying to know what you are supposed to find, particularly since the answer is subtle. I'll tell you: if you direct your attention to where you are looking out of, you find... nothing. Just empty space. Where "you" would be or where your head would be, there's a blank space. Then you find this blank space is everywhere, and your vision sits inside it, as do all the other things you are sensing.

Other approaches, let your attention follow to the edge of your vision and keep going. Check this self-portrait by Ernst Mach:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3020/3083367042_417b4af767.jpg

Where is his head?

On Monday, September 22, 2014 5:57:23 PM UTC+1, benjayk wrote:

Well practically speaking I sense my face. But that is not what is meant.
Other than that I'm getting confused because I try to find out what I am actually supposed to do.
I have no clue what I am supposed to find or look at. After a while it gets quite exhausting and confusing.

I feel doubts that I may not be sincere enough or focused enough to look in the way I am supposed to.

Am Montag, 22. September 2014 17:53:18 UTC+2 schrieb George:

The point is, it can't really be described, only pointed to. You could look up Douglas Harding and try his experiments. The point is that awareness is the background to your experience, all the time, but you don't notice it because of the distracting content of your experience - you don't notice the "space that it's all occurring in".

Try pointing to your face right now. Direct your attention to where your finger is pointed to, and see what's there. Where are you looking out from? What are you looking out from

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[Peter Jones]

Ben - You are not asked to become 'spiritual'. You are asked simply to investigate yourself, the nature of your own awareness. You can do loads of thinking if you want, and it can be useful, and it can even prove certain things about the world,  but as a saying from Sufism goes, 'Man can partake of the perpetual, but not by thinking he can think about it'. Counting the breath is a powerful method for calming the mind, absurdly powerful given its simplicity, but do try to get away from 'I can't do this', I can't relax', I am restless, I can't stop thinking and all the 'focus on 'I'. 

If you cannot relax say 'There is a lack of relaxation' and assume that this has nothing to do with you as the observer of this phenomenon.  And perhaps it would be better not to attempt to stop thinking, but just stop following your thoughts. Let them be. They are not you. 

Or, here's a game. Do you know that arcade game where hippo's pop up through holes and you have to knock them back with a hammer as soon as they appear? It requires remaining very watchful and focused. Try doing that with your thoughts. It requires close concentration so that you can clobber the hippos, er, thoughts, as soon as they appear. You may find that they soon learn to keep their heads down and leave you in peace. .

Or, try seeing exactly where your thoughts come from. Watch your mind very closely and try to spot the exact moment when a new thought begins. By looking at the germination of thoughts in this way they tend to become weaker and die away (like continually pruning a plant as soon as it sprouts) . Then you end up staring intently at a silent mind, like a farmer with a empty field, always on the lookout for weeds (or hippos). 

Everyone has their own methods and tricks. Usually they share the feature in that they require dispassionate observation and not participation, so there is never the idea 'I am bored', but, rather, 'There is a feeling of boredom'.  If feelings are observed and noted but not owned they become easier to ignore, and may become irrelevant to anything.  

Note that I am not a skilled practitioner.  All advice is taken at the user's own risk. The company is not liable for failed enlightenment projects and there are no refunds.

  

  

 

  

[RHC]

Ben try Don's website, there is great material on there.

http://www.remember-to-breathe.org/