Welding of ASTM A 335Gr.P11

[limesh M]

Can we use E-7018B2 instead of E-8018B2 for welding of A-335 Gr. P11
material. If yes then what care shall be exercised during welding?
Would the resulting weldment be of adequate strength?


Thanks and Regards

Limesh

[Raghuram Bathula]

you can use E-7018B2L (not E-7018B2). the “L-Grades” are limited to a maximum of 0.05% carbon. While the lower percent carbon in the weld metal will improve ductility and lower hardness,it will also reduce the high-temperature strength and creep resistance of the weld metal.

Generally it is not a problem with P11, but in case of P22 if the operating temp is > 450 °C, one must not use low carbon grades

[MOHAMED HEGAZY]

Dear Raghuram,   I Believe that as strenght point of view it's ok to use E7018B2L but why i have to go for this low carbon grades while  there is no need for that specially that the base metal itself has a 0.05 to 0.15 %C range which will be higher than weld metal and conequently may cause carbon to migrate from HAZ to the weld metal resulting in embrittling effect & in case of high operating temperature this carbon is highly required to stablize the the chromium atoms in the weld metal to avoid loosing the strenght & creep resistance at high temperatures.   So I recommend not to go for E7018B2L  & as long as there's no E7018B2 so E8018B2 is more matching for this case .   Another points of view are encouraged.         Regards   Mohamed.Hegazy F.S.I Coordinador PgDip of Welding Engineering AWS Certified Welding Engineer CWEng. TWI CSWIP Welding Inspection 3.1. VSA Consortium ( VEOLIA, SAIPEM & ALJABER ) Power & Energy Projects.  QATAR SHELL PEARL GTL Project. Ras Laffan ,Qatar   QATAR : +9743694501  EGY:       +20142345614 Email         : MH_w_I...@YAHOO.COM       --- On Thu, 7/22/10, Raghuram Bathula <raghura...@gmail.com> wrote:

-- To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/ The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.

[Raghuram Bathula]

i have specified "not E-7018B2" in my reply since it is not listed in
AWS classification. only 8018B2 is listed in addition to 7018B2L.
there is no restriction on use of both of these grades.

On Jul 24, 12:32 pm, MOHAMED HEGAZY <mh_w_insp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear Raghuram,
>  
> I Believe that as strenght point of view it's ok to use E7018B2L but why i have to go for this low carbon grades while  there is no need for that specially that the base metal itself has a 0.05 to 0.15 %C range which will be higher than weld metal and conequently may cause carbon to migrate from HAZ to the weld metal resulting in embrittling effect & in case of high operating temperature this carbon is highly required to stablize the the chromium atoms in the weld metal to avoid loosing the strenght & creep resistance at high temperatures.
>  
> So I recommend not to go for E7018B2L  & as long as there's no E7018B2 so E8018B2 is more matching for this case .
>  
> Another points of view are encouraged.
>  
>
>  
>  
>
>  
> Regards
>  
> Mohamed.Hegazy
> F.S.I Coordinador
> PgDip of Welding Engineering
> AWS Certified Welding Engineer CWEng.
> TWI CSWIP Welding Inspection 3.1.
> VSA Consortium ( VEOLIA, SAIPEM & ALJABER )
> Power & Energy Projects. 
> QATAR SHELL PEARL GTL Project.
> Ras Laffan ,Qatar
>  
> QATAR : +9743694501 
> EGY:       +20142345614

> Email         : MH_w_INSP...@YAHOO.COM
>      
>
> --- On Thu, 7/22/10, Raghuram Bathula <raghurambath...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> From: Raghuram Bathula <raghurambath...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [MW:6084] Welding of ASTM A 335Gr.P11
> To: material...@googlegroups.com
> Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 5:50 PM
>
> you can use E-7018B2L (not E-7018B2). the “L-Grades” are limited to a maximum of 0.05% carbon. While the lower percent carbon in the weld metal will improve ductility and lower hardness,it will also reduce the high-temperature strength and creep resistance of the weld metal.
>
> Generally it is not a problem with P11, but in case of P22 if the operating temp is > 450 °C, one must not use low carbon grades
>

[chander...@gmail.com]

COMMENT BY C C GIROTRA (Weldwell Speciality Pvt Ltd,Mumbai)

The low carbon type wire and electrodes in P11 and P22 are used where
PWHT is not feasible due some problems or if the thickness of the
plate/pipe to be welded is 12mm max. Such low carbon consumables yield
lower residual strees hence if PWHT is not carried out there are no
problems in operations,Foe example for steam turbine casing in a
running power plant PWHT is not possible.So E8018B3L electrode and
Filler wire ER90SB3L wire is used.

Regards
C C Girotra
====================================================

[manpreet]

Dear All

Completely agree with Mr, Hegazy.

Mr. limesh, there is nothing as such E7018 B2 (E7018 B2L is available).

ASME SECii part c, the best suitable covered electrode is E8018 B2, which you can use without PWHT with temperbead technique.

If you want to use the bare electrode or info regarding temperbead technique,Pls let me know.

Regards
Manpreet Singh
Welding Engineer
SpiecaPag LPG-LNG Project



On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 23:27:01 +0530 wrote

>i have specified "not E-7018B2" in my reply since it is not listed in

AWS classification. only 8018B2 is listed in addition to 7018B2L.

there is no restriction on use of both of these grades.

On Jul 24, 12:32 pm, MOHAMED HEGAZY wrote:

> Dear Raghuram,

>

> I Believe that as strenght point of view it's ok to use E7018B2L but why i have to go for this low carbon grades while there is no need for that specially that the base metal itself has a 0.05 to 0.15 %C range which will be higher than weld metal and conequently may cause carbon to migrate from HAZ to the weld metal resulting in embrittling effect & in case of high operating temperature this carbon is highly required to stablize the the chromium atoms in the weld metal to avoid loosing the strenght & creep resistance at high temperatures.

>

> So I recommend not to go for E7018B2L & as long as there's no E7018B2 so E8018B2 is more matching for this case .

>

> Another points of view are encouraged.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Regards

>

> Mohamed.Hegazy

> F.S.I Coordinador

> PgDip of Welding Engineering

> AWS Certified Welding Engineer CWEng.

> TWI CSWIP Welding Inspection 3.1.

> VSA Consortium ( VEOLIA, SAIPEM & ALJABER )

> Power & Energy Projects.

> QATAR SHELL PEARL GTL Project.

> Ras Laffan ,Qatar

>

> QATAR :+9743694501

> EGY: +20142345614

> Email :MH_w_INSP...@YAHOO.COM

>

>

> --- On Thu, 7/22/10, Raghuram Bathula wrote:

>

> From: Raghuram Bathula

> Subject: Re: [MW:6084] Welding of ASTM A 335Gr.P11

> To: material...@googlegroups.com

> Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 5:50 PM

>

> you can use E-7018B2L (not E-7018B2). the “L-Grades” are limited to a maximum of 0.05% carbon. While the lower percent carbon in the weld metal will improve ductility and lower hardness,it will also reduce the high-temperature strength and creep resistance of the weld metal.

>

> Generally it is not a problem with P11, but in case of P22 if the operating temp is > 450 °C, one must not use low carbon grades

>

> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 6:21 PM, limesh M wrote:

>

> Can we use E-7018B2 instead of E-8018B2 for welding of A-335 Gr. P11

> material. If yes then what care shall be exercised during welding?

> Would the resulting weldment be of adequate strength?

>

> Thanks and Regards

>

> Limesh

>

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[limesh M]

Dear All,

 

Thank you verymuch for the valuable inputs.

 

@Manpreet,I would like to know more about bare electrode usage and temper bead technique in depth.

 

What is the difference between temper bead technique and normal welding technique?

 

Is there any different sequence of layering technique we are following in temperbead ?

 

If so how we can ensure it always since the welders are not much bothered about systematic layering? 

 

If you don't mind please share some presentation or simulation on temperbead technique.

 

 

Thanks and Regards,

 

 

Limesh

[John Henning]

Limesh;

 

See ASME Sc.IX  QW-290.  Use of temper beading is typically restricted to repair.  Qualification in accordance with QW-290 is not trivial.  However, the concept is fairly easily understood.  One controls the heat input of welding layers such that the HAZ is tempered by the heat of subsequent welding passes.  Bead sequencing and welding parameters must be controlled  and are different than used in normal welding.  Either close observation of the weldor or a weldor who understands the process, its demands, and is willing to perform as required must be employed.   More than likely one would employ both.

 

John

Error! Filename not specified.

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[sai prathap]

Dear sir,

  i'm having one doubt that, can i use ER-90SB3 & E-9018B3 for welding of SA335-P11. if suppose will use then what is temperature should have to follow for the PWHT. if we follow the soaking temperature of P11, then is ther any chance to affect on the hardness properties.

Thanks & regards

M.SAI PRATHAP

+91-8332897606

[Sankaran Sp]

Dear Friend,

For  welding of SA335-P11 pipe you can use ER-80S-B2 & E8018-B2 for welding, no need to use 

ER-90SB3 & E-9018B3. 

For PWHT you can use 650-660 Deg C with soaking time respect to thickness of job or refer ASME secVIII div 1 standard.

Hope that i have clarified. 

Regards,

Sankaran.SP

welding& metallurgy expert     

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[prathap sai]

Dear sir,

  Thanks for your valuable  reply, i also suggested the ER-80SB2 & E-8018B2 for welding of P11, but the chinese has saying that,they will use ER-90SB3 & E-9018B3 instead of ER-80SB2 & E-8018B2 . Till now QPS & PQR also not prepared.for that reason only i asked here. i have to approve the proposed WPS. please let me know the soaking temperature have to given when ER-90SB3 & E-9018B3 used for P11.Is there any effect on the hardness values when we will give soaking temperature of P11.

Thanks & Regrds

M.SAI PRATHAP

assistant manager(QA/QC)

IPCL, INDIA

On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 5:19 PM, 'Sankaran Sp' via Materials & Welding <material...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Dear Friend,

For  welding of SA335-P11 pipe you can use ER-80S-B2 & E8018-B2 for welding, no need to use 

ER-90SB3 & E-9018B3. 

For PWHT you can use 650-660 Deg C with soaking time respect to thickness of job or refer ASME secVIII div 1 standard.

Hope that i have clarified. 

Regards,

Sankaran.SP

welding& metallurgy expert     

On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 2:50 PM, sai prathap <sai.pr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear sir,

  i'm having one doubt that, can i use ER-90SB3 & E-9018B3 for welding of SA335-P11. if suppose will use then what is temperature should have to follow for the PWHT. if we follow the soaking temperature of P11, then is ther any chance to affect on the hardness properties.

Thanks & regards

M.SAI PRATHAP

+91-8332897606

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[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

There will be depletion of C and Hardness also will increase if u use ER90S-B9 and E9018-B9 and soaking time of P11 will not reduce much of Hardness of B9 weld metal

THANKS & BEST REGARDS,

KG.PANDITHAN, IWE,  AWS-CWI, CSWIP 3.1,

CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

Mobile no: +919940739349

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 8:55 AM, prathap sai <sai.pr...@gmail.com> wrote:

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Dear sir,

  Thanks for your valuable  reply, i also suggested the ER-80SB2 & E-8018B2 for welding of P11, but the chinese has saying that,they will use ER-90SB3 & E-9018B3 instead of ER-80SB2 & E-8018B2 . Till now QPS & PQR also not prepared.for that reason only i asked here. i have to approve the proposed WPS. please let me know the soaking temperature have to given when ER-90SB3 & E-9018B3 used for P11.Is there any effect on the hardness values when we will give soaking temperature of P11.

Thanks & Regrds

M.SAI PRATHAP

assistant manager(QA/QC)

IPCL, INDIA

On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 5:19 PM, 'Sankaran Sp' via Materials & Welding <materials-welding@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Dear Friend,

For  welding of SA335-P11 pipe you can use ER-80S-B2 & E8018-B2 for welding, no need to use 

ER-90SB3 & E-9018B3. 

For PWHT you can use 650-660 Deg C with soaking time respect to thickness of job or refer ASME secVIII div 1 standard.

Hope that i have clarified. 

Regards,

Sankaran.SP

welding& metallurgy expert     

On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 2:50 PM, sai prathap <sai.pr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear sir,

  i'm having one doubt that, can i use ER-90SB3 & E-9018B3 for welding of SA335-P11. if suppose will use then what is temperature should have to follow for the PWHT. if we follow the soaking temperature of P11, then is ther any chance to affect on the hardness properties.

Thanks & regards

M.SAI PRATHAP

+91-8332897606

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[prathap sai]

Dear sir, 

   Thanks for your valuable reply, actually we are not going to use ER-90SB9 & E-9018B9, CHINESE  proposed to do weld with ER-90SB3 & E-9018B3. for this please suggest me what temperature have to give for soaking and holding time. for your valuble reply i'm awaiting sir.

Thanks & Regards

M.SAI PRATHAP

assistant manager(QA/QC)

IPCL, INDIA

  

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/materials-welding/CAJzm4eP62U%3DSL7OsSkNASjeei%2B%2BgLvD2H8SdxwhGO5rP8Bo4Lg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Sankaran Sp]

Dear Friend,

when using ER-90SB3 & E-9018B3 consumable for P11 pipe welding,you can use 690-700 Deg C with soaking time respect to thickness of job, when high alloy consumable is using on low alloy  we have to follow high alloy (P5A) condtion in ASME sec VIII div 1 standard.

Hope that i have clarified. 

Regards,

Sankaran.SP

welding& metallurgy expert     

On Wednesday, 12 April 2017 10:54 PM, prathap sai <sai.pr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear sir, 

   Thanks for your valuable reply, actually we are not going to use ER-90SB9 & E-9018B9, CHINESE  proposed to do weld with ER-90SB3 & E-9018B3. for this please suggest me what temperature have to give for soaking and holding time. for your valuble reply i'm awaiting sir.

Thanks & Regards

M.SAI PRATHAP

assistant manager(QA/QC)

IPCL, INDIA

  

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Kannayeram Gnanapandithan <kgpan...@gmail.com> wrote:

There will be depletion of C and Hardness also will increase if u use ER90S-B9 and E9018-B9 and soaking time of P11 will not reduce much of Hardness of B9 weld metal

THANKS & BEST REGARDS,

KG.PANDITHAN, IWE,  AWS-CWI, CSWIP 3.1,

CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

Mobile no: +919940739349

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 8:55 AM, prathap sai <sai.pr...@gmail.com> wrote:

This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (sai.pr...@gmail.com) Add cleanup rule | More info

Dear sir,

  Thanks for your valuable  reply, i also suggested the ER-80SB2 & E-8018B2 for welding of P11, but the chinese has saying that,they will use ER-90SB3 & E-9018B3 instead of ER-80SB2 & E-8018B2 . Till now QPS & PQR also not prepared.for that reason only i asked here. i have to approve the proposed WPS. please let me know the soaking temperature have to given when ER-90SB3 & E-9018B3 used for P11.Is there any effect on the hardness values when we will give soaking temperature of P11.

Thanks & Regrds

M.SAI PRATHAP

assistant manager(QA/QC)

IPCL, INDIA

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