IF ans IFD as per API 1104

[Ri@z]

Dear All,

Our Pipeline specification not accepting Incomplete Fusion .In case of incomplete fusion weld shall be rejected and re-welded.

But according to API 1104, IF and IFD are different . So is it required to reject both IF and IFD as both are incomplete Fusion?

Please help me with advice 

I am using AUT for the inspection and 70 % of joints are detecting either IF or IFD 

With Regards

Riaz 

Pls help me 

[Mohamed Muneeb]

Hi,

Who told you to perform AUT? I mean why not RT? AUT will hold your project in Reverse gear.

Mostly in stringent case we perform AUT/PAUT/TOFD or where there is multiple requirement like tie-in's, anyhow it's mutual agreement between company and contractor.

And yes both are different by 9.3.4 / 9.3.5, ID and IFD, you cannot straight away reject but contemplate upon given para condition as per the pipe sizes then proceed for acceptance/rejections.

Thanks

Muneeb

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[Ri@z]

AUT is mandatory by Client spec.

And Client spec not accepting Lack of fusion. 

We are getting Lack of Fusion and LFD on almost every joint.  Intention of post is to seeking justification for accepting LFD. Client telling as per API 1104 both IF and IFD are Lack of Fusion only hence needed to be CUT OUT and Rewelded. 

I am seeking advice from experts here to justify client regarding the acceptance of LFD 

With Regards

Riaz 

[munee...@gmail.com]

Dear Riaz,

I can understand your situation, every non conformance has correction / corrective action, prevention / preventive action. So in that case before confirming the non conformance make sure the following measure of check points has made as per below.

*Whether demonstration of AUT is performed and accepted without any glitches?

*Whether your AUT is been performed as per the clause 11.4.7.3?

*If performed does anyone cross checking with the reports / interpretations are confirming planar imperfection as per clause 9.3.4 / 5?

*Read 9.6.1.1, 2 (IF) and 3 (IFD) as per 9.6.1.1 your client cannot reject just because there is an indication.

*but as per 9.3.4 and 5, so did you check the length of indications are exceeding beyond option A or B or C?

*Check the schematic of your production observation Vs figure 16 and 17 are same observations?

*Check your machine calibrated / equipped in well condtions, not malfunctioned? 

*If everything is all right cross check with different NDE third parties / technicians / machines, just a cross verification.

Followed by thee above, catch the culprit (welder) check the total no of rejection Vs total no of welders (Individual) rejection and make the correction if exist or it may be changes in the weld geometry due to alignment offset of abutting pipe ends, changes in weld reinforcement profile of ID root and OD capping passes, internal chamfering, and ultrasonic wave mode conversion due to  such conditions may cause geometric indications that are similar to those caused by weld imperfections but that are not relevant to acceptability

NOTE: When doubt exists about the type of imperfection being disclosed by an indication, verification may be obtained by using other NDT methods.

https://www.twi-global.com/technical-knowledge/job-knowledge/weld-defects-imperfections-in-welds-lack-of-sidewall-and-inter-run-fusion-041

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Regards,

Mohamed Muneeb Mahaboob

CSWIP 3.2-89247/2 

IRCA-9001:2015 LA

ASNT-NDT-L2-RTFI-RT-UT-MT-PT.

SAP#:70021650 APs:JAPID, QCS & QCI.

E munee...@gmail.com M +91-636-955-7189

''If you know any art by any means then SCULPT IT - no matter how cheap or useless it is - JUST SCULPT IT, you will never know when experts will be on demand'' 

[rajeev arora]

If you have ECA option, please go for it because IFD is very common issue in Automatic welding and finding with AUT 

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Regards,

Rajeev Arora

[Ramin Kondori]

I read the comments.

Why don't you correct your welding procedure...?

All these discussions aside, finally your meat is under your client's teeth.

So I recommend you first to correct the issue. This way you will have more of your client support.

But if you don't and just try to justify, it will make them more upset. Believe me, I have been the client's inspector all my career.

Tell me about the welding procedure. 

Regards

Ramin  Kondori

Sr. QA/QC & Welding Engineer

-----------------------------------------------------------

PG-Dip. in Welding Engineering (IWE  AT  0070)

BSc. in Civil Engineering (IUT)

BGAS Painting Inspector

ASNT Level I&II

                        

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[riaz rafeeque]

This is the wps approved. 

Backing with cupper shoes

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[munee...@gmail.com]

Greetings,

Whether you are an owner or contractor representative does not matters but what matters that how well you tackle the situations, when you work in ground level you should stalk owners loop holes and if you are an owner then you should scrutinize contractors loop holes and genuinely agree with acceptance / rejection in reasonable manner as per codes / standards, i have seen some inspectors regardless of whatever their levels maybe, they just stick to what they said, which is not appreciable and not the sign of a sound quality inspectors.

In your case client cannot just say something which is not as per API 1104, as i said check the planar imperfections are confirmed as non-acceptable indications, if it is then dig the root cause and make the corrections to the stringent which shall not have recurrences.    

Regardless of WPS approved or not every production will face minor / major issue which is an ongoing correction but being proactive can elimnate major risks.

Thanks.

---

Regards,

Mohamed Muneeb Mahaboob

CSWIP 3.2-89247/2 

IRCA-9001:2015 LA

ASNT-NDT-L2-RTFI-RT-UT-MT-PT.

SAP#:70021650 APs:JAPID, QCS & QCI.

E munee...@gmail.com M +91-636-955-7189

''If you know any art by any means then SCULPT IT - no matter how cheap or useless it is - JUST SCULPT IT, you will never know when experts will be on demand'' 

[Ramin Kondori]

Hi,

It does't matter if the WPS has been approved by god himself...!!!

Approved or not, it seems that it is causing you problems.

It is impossible for a client to accept such defects, forget about it.

Do not waste your time and start your repairs. The way you are trying to resolve the issue is not going to work...

Ramin  Kondori

Sr. QA/QC & Welding Engineer

-----------------------------------------------------------

PG-Dip. in Welding Engineering (IWE  AT  0070)

BSc. in Civil Engineering (IUT)

BGAS Painting Inspector

ASNT Level I&II

                        

[riaz rafeeque]

We did an RT to verify the presence of IFD . But not getting IfD on RT. 

In addition we noticed bright indication , which may be cupper pick up in root. 

Client representative  interpretated this  as Cupper Pick Up

Experts pls advice. 

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019, 11:34 AM Ramin Kondori <ramink...@gmail.com wrote:

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[Mohamed Muneeb]

It doesn't seem like to be a cupper. What is the bm and process used?

Regards

Muneeb

[riaz rafeeque]

GMAW Process with Cupper back strip

Base Metal : API 5l X70 , 6.62 mm thick, Groove is U with 2 mm root face , 0 mm root gap

[munee...@gmail.com]

So, yes in your case after ensuring process and back strip material, possible what you have interpretated, so in this case the root causes are already been proactivated through the subject email and hence correction shall be done.

Re: Re: [MW:28730] Auto Welding Copper back up strip fused with Root run

Thanks.

---

Regards,

Mohamed Muneeb Mahaboob

CSWIP 3.2-89247/2 

IRCA-9001:2015 LA

ASNT-NDT-L2-RTFI-RT-UT-MT-PT.

SAP#:70021650 APs:JAPID, QCS & QCI.

E munee...@gmail.com M +91-636-955-7189

''If you know any art by any means then SCULPT IT - no matter how cheap or useless it is - JUST SCULPT IT, you will never know when experts will be on demand'' 

From: riaz rafeeque

Date: 2019-01-25 12:16

To: materials-welding