First Replicator 2/2X Mightyboard failure?

[Bottleworks]

Has anyone else have a Mightyboard fail on a Replicator 2 or 2X?  The driver for the Extruder heatsink fan has failed.  It started acting up the past few days and now it won't ground the fan.  Can't print without that fan!  This appears to have happened just torwards the end of a print, so that extruder is internally gumed up with plastic due to the lack of cooling. 

I've opened up a support ticket.  I'll see how that goes... 

[Damian Gto]

First I ever heard on the rep2 series. 

But there should be some, due the processing of making them. None is 100%, so there should be some bad once out there.

[Dan Newman]

On 28 May 2013 , at 4:58 AM, Damian Gto wrote:

> First I ever heard on the rep2 series.
> But there should be some, due the processing of making them. None is 100%,
> so there should be some bad once out there.

There's been at least one other report to this forum of someone having the FET
for their extruder heatsink fan going bad. In their case the fan was on "low"
and then when the extruder hit 50C it would go on "high". Clearly the FET was
trickling some current when it should have been off.

Dan

[Bottleworks]

Never mind. After rechecking somethings - all is a-ok.  Either I've got an intermittent failure with the FET, or there was some oxidation on the connector that was giving me false readings.  Whatever the case,the fan has power and is spinning.

[Bottleworks]

I take it back. It's still not working right.

[Damian Gto]

Have you tried to switch the fans?

Have you checked the whole cable for the fans?

[Richard]

Open a service case, they should replace it.

[Bradley Pearce]

The replicator 2 has one heat sink fan. It's an issue with the Mightyboard, not the fan. 

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[Bradley Pearce]

I have and the question will be if they will and when.

Sent from my iPhone

[Damian Gto]

I forgot you did have an rep 2 only. ;-)

Is a  FET bad?

Have you checked so there is not bad solder? 
What do MBI say about it?

[Bottleworks]

MBI is sending me a fan....  It's not going to fix this, but the effort is there.

[Joseph Chiu]

Did you measure at the board, too?  When I was upgrading my R1 with your Al arms, I swear the TC wires just pulled right out of their terminal blocks.   IIRC, they don't use terminal blocks, but spring loaded terminals in the newer designs? (Someone correct or confirm me, please!)   Anyway, it just seems like it's worth checking closer to the source?

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Bottleworks <bottlew...@gmail.com> wrote:

MBI is sending me a fan....  It's not going to fix this, but the effort is there.

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[Bradley Pearce]

Yes, I also checked right at the board. Specifically, checking on the board side of the connector with the harness still connected. I also connected the [heatsink] fan into the [print / PLA] fan socket and ran the fan with a for an extended time. That way I could confirm the fan itself didn't also have issues. It doesn't...  MB won't GND fan....  

I suspect more people have this issue. I believe those who "have tried everything " unsuccessfully to fix filament feed problems could also be having this issue. This is intermittent and it likes to act up mid print, then sometimes, it starts working again. So, if someone gets an "air print" after they return to the machine, they see the print failed, but the machine works. Only a clogged extruder due to the over heat. They unclog the extruder and retry.  If the fan doesn't fail - it prints fine. Then, the next time the fan acts ups, failed prints...  The whole time, the user assumes the fan is working as need. After all, they haven't seen it act up. 

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[Bradley Pearce]

So, here's something that's disappointing...  MBI has a fan in transit, but they closed the support ticket declaring it "solved" with having no idea if it will solve the problem. Those who have been following along, and have basic electrical diagnostic skills, knows that the fan isn't the issue.  I've point out the results twice now, but the tech completely ignored what I wrote. 

Before the Rep2 came out, their support was much better then it is today. Very disappointing. 

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On May 30, 2013, at 6:36 PM, Bottleworks <bottlew...@gmail.com> wrote:

MBI is sending me a fan....  It's not going to fix this, but the effort is there.

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[Damian Gto]

I think it depending on what support person you get. I had trouble at start to. It did take some time to convince them. I then get I new person and then it was not a problem.
I agree with you. It can not be the fan. Maybe a mosfet that is bad.

[Scottbee]

Well... we'll see if I have a similar experience.

My right fan failed on my 2X (~230 hours).  It locked up and then proceeded to get smokin' hot.  Hot enough to soften the plastic around its internal bushing and deform like crazy.  I also suspect that it developed an internal short (it measured 1.7 Ohms when I pulled it out).

I swapped the left fan (known good) for the right one and sadly... nothing.  My suspicion is that when the fan shorted it popped the driver/FET on the MB.

I've created a ticket with Makerbot and shared this information with them.  My company opted for the MakerCare when they bought this machine.... so the MB should be covered.

We'll see how this goes.....

[Rob Griesbeck]

I had one go. I got one of the 1st 2Xs and it did about 100 hours, then pooped it's pants and refused to turn on again. I sent it to Makerbot and within 2 weeks I had it back. I've done 600+ hours since the repair without a problem (*knocks on wood)

[Scottbee]

As an update, so far it is not going well at all.

I wrote up the failure (with full analysis information) and used their web-based trouble ticket system to submit the problem on Monday. No response.

Wrote it up again this morning and sent it via Email to sup...@makerbot.com. So far no response.

Tried to call support, but their call routing system is hosed, and I gave up after a few iterations through their endless loop.

I'm cutting them a little bit of slack since I know they're having some pretty serious weather issues on the East coast.... but it is obvious that they don't have professional and refined support systems. Disappointing.

[Bradley Pearce]

Their email support can take a day or two to get back to you. Did you
get an auto-reply email confirming that they received it?

Over the phone support has always been quick for me. The last time I
called, I remember it was only a couple prompts and someone answered
right away.

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[Scottbee]

Nope, no auto-reply.

Dead silence. They also haven't shipped the fans that I ordered on Monday.

[Bradley Pearce]

They may not have gotten your email or it's trapped in your spam. Their replacement parts shipping is very poor. I ordered some replacement items over the phone. It took 2-3 weeks for them to ship. Half the parts were for the wrong machine. I have both, so I was ok with it as it was all just for spares. Then a week after, they reshipped the order again. Very odd. I came out ahead if you ignore the time loss (had I needed the parts ASAP).

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 21, 2014, at 9:14 PM, Scottbee <scott.e...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Nope, no auto-reply.
>
> Dead silence. They also haven't shipped the fans that I ordered on Monday.
>

[Rob Griesbeck]

Call them, keep calling. I've always got immediate responses whrn calling. Email can be spotty, I feel it's definitely 2nd to phone support. I've also complained to multiple people about their crappy shipping, the hotend they sent me (for free) was shipped and received to the west coast in 4 days. Much better

[Laird Popkin]

Perhaps I'm just lucky, but I've been getting great support from MBI for my Replicator (original model) for years. They've replaced several components, after asking fairly reasonable questions (e.g. asking me to send a picture of the part so they can make sure it failed the way I thought it had), and all replacements showed up in a few days. Given that I've not got the latest/greatest, I've been half expecting repair parts to be an issue, under the assumption that they're focused on the new products, but so far they've replaced the MightyBoard, HPB and endstop cables, and the heat spreader, and most recently the injection molded parts on the ends of the gantry. And every replacement shipped out in a day or two. So while the number of repairs adds up (my wife jokes that I should build another Replicator with the old parts), MBI has really done a great job for me on the support.

All of my contacts with them are by submitting support tickets. I don't know their phone number. :-)

- LP

[Scottbee]

My web-based ticket may have gone off into the ether, but their log system does show my EMAIL from yesterday.  The status says that it is waiting for assignment to a technician.

But then again, I see some other "closed" older tickets of mine (like when they lost my initial 2X shipment) that say they're waiting on assignment too.. and they're 30 days old.  So that status indicator may be nonsensical.

I'll try to give them a call later today.... but they may be closed due to the weather.

We'll see!

[Scottbee]

To their credit, I received an EMAIL this morning from tech support, along with an apology for the delay (due to being "backed up").

They would like me to remove and return the extruder head and MB for analysis and repair.  I am in a dialogue with them now, hoping that we can find an alternate solution.  We really can't afford to be without the machine for "weeks", and it is currently running on one head.  In the near-term I can install a new fan on the right side and drive it directly off of 24V when we need to do a dual extrusion (unless somebody can tell me why that is a horrible idea).

[Scottbee]

I think my story might end on a good note.

The tech understood my position and I believe he came to trust my diagnostic ability.

They are sending me a new MB, and have requested that I send back the old one after replacement along with the toasted fan.  In their words "they don't see this very often and would like to investigate the failure".  I fully understand and appreciate that.  My tech support guys would do the same thing.

At this moment I have some renewed faith in Makerbot.

[Dan Newman]

Before unwiring and removing your old board, snap a couple of pictures.
It's priceless as a reference when installing the new board. You may
even want to move some of the wires a bit before taking the pictures so
as to make it absolutely clear what goes where.

Dan

[Scottbee]

I agree.  Always a good idea.

I should also note that the tech has already sent me the Makerbot instructions for replacing the MB on the 2X.  Not a half bad document with a lot of pictures.

[Scottbee]

Well my saga sadly continues.

I have to give credit to the MB tech support guy that I'm working with.  He's professional and appears to be sincerely dedicated to solving my issues.  But it would appear that there are other areas in the organization that aren't quite up to speed yet.

I did finally receive my replacement MightyBoard on Tuesday.  It came via FedEx ground...  Immediately I noticed that it didn't have the full compliment of BotSteps installed (missing the "B" extruder unit).  My tech support guy "authorized" swapping a stepper driver over from my other board.  He also warned me that there would probably be some other settings that would need to be changed (HBP, number of extruders, etc..).  I figured as much.

So I went to install the board this morning..... took my time.. did it right.. and buttoned the whole 2X back up.  Then I made an unfortunate discovery.  The replacement board had the wrong power connector on it and it wouldn't mate with my power brick!

Contacted MB tech support and I was told that there are two different "flavors" of 2X MightyBoards out there... and I got the wrong one.  They're sending me the "correct" unit and it should be here tomorrow.

I didn't notice any unique markings that differentiate the boards, and they're both "Rev H".  

So I guess the moral to the story is that if you need to get a replacement board for your 2X it is probably wise to do whatever you can to ensure they send you a replacement with the correct connector for your specific machine.

[Bradley Pearce]

Oh, that is very good information. Thank you.

> <https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-h-q-wqzU6RM/UulAyhatRHI/AAAAAAAAABM/kauPL28We0o/s1600/Makerbot+2X+board.JPG>

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[Jetguy]

Ha, somebody got popped on a safety inspection, probably for certification and maybe the CE folks got em.

The "old" style would mean the power brick has live exposed pins at 24V potential and 9.2A. It could short against something in the right conditions when uplugged. Rare, I know but safety agencies don't care about rare, they care about if it's possible.

 

The "New" power bricks are female recessed sockets and thefore a lot harder to insert anything and get a short.

 

It makes perfect sense when you see the larger picture. Care to take a bet the new machines use the same power source?

Just interesting to see the evolution.

[3DwannaB]

Actually... there's good news in this... It shows that they stopped following the ideal of the Cult of the Done... and that they are still improving the model and not immediately abandoning it.

[Bryon Miller]

The only time anything happened for me in a timely fashion is when I called them.  I don't think they've ever even responded to any of my emails, but the call experience is a 180 from the email support.  There shouldn't be an endless loop, there's just a prompt for tech support.  Their phone system must not have been working properly.  Try them again.

[Scottbee]

I've had a nice running dialogue via EMAIL with a helpful tech support representative for a little over a week now.  Unfortunately another "error" was made and the second replacement board was sent "ground" when it was supposed to go out overnight.  So I'm still limping along on one extruder waiting patiently to get the machine fully functional.

[Scottbee]

To give closure to my specific "problem".

The new MightyBoard arrived yesterday.  This one had the correct power connector and was populated with all of the BotSteps.

I installed it this morning and all is good.  Fans are working properly and I have tested all of the other functions.  The machine has been running for ~5 hours since the swap-out and all is well.

The only thing that I really had to do after I installed the board was go through its "welcome to your new machine" script and then tell it that it had two extruders and a heated build plate.