My 5th Gen replicator experience so far

[MikerBot]

Hi everyone.

Just thought I would share how things are going with my 5th gen Makerbot.

Things I have learned so far.

• You cannot print directly on the glass and expect good results.  The print will warp because it will not stick to the glass tight at the edges.
• Update the firmware. 
• Use blue tape.
• If you want better sticking power wipe the tape with a paper towel dampened with rubbing alcohol.
• You can use blue tape on the roll from the hardware store.  Just stick strips next to each other tight without overlap.
• Level often.  I find I can get away with three or four prints if I am careful loading and unloading the build plate.
• The build plate assembly is flimsy.
• Do not use any up or down force on the leveling knobs while turning.
• There is no jog function.   If you need to lower the platform you have to turn the screw by hand.
• If the build plate is up too far the printer will try and gouge it's way through the glass rather than error out.
• don't cancel leveling and then try to level again.   It will mash the build plate into the extruder and drag it around.
• White filament clogs extruders.
• Get jumbo size zipper bags and bulk desicant packs from an amazonian type online retailer and keep your filament stored dry when not in use.
  

I had a few failed attempts but managed to finally get it working reasonably well.

I noticed that the Z axis makes a noise like slipping cog belts when it reaches the bottom of travel or before starting upward.  Has anyone else noticed this?  This seems to be the only travel defect so far besides the time I canceled leveling and the tried to level again and it mashed the build plate up into the extruder and started grinding around.

I was getting not so great quality.   I slowed the speed while extruding from 90 to 85 mm per second and that seemed to help.

I get most consistent results on low setting with the speed set to 85.

I did a lot or test prints with black filament.  I had no issues with feeding, loading, or unloading.  I switched to white and instantly started having issues with all of the above eventually clogging the extruder.   Yes it is Makerbot filament.  Unloading black filament everything would come out in one piece with gentle pulling.   White, have to pull harder with most times leftovers breaking off in the extruder.  White stopped feeding mid print several times.  Black no issues at all.  

Modifications that would be helpful.

• rigid build plate assembly.   So dumb to put such a flimsy assembly on such rigid slides. 
  
• reroute feed tube out the top of the machine.  The filament is hard to pull through the tight bends they introduce trying to hide it inside.
• Some way to clear clogs without having to send in your extruder.
• Z axis jog function

I am waiting to hear back from Makerbot on my clogged extruder and my Z axis noise.

I hope this helps some people and I will be interested to hear if anyone else has the bottom of travel Z axis noise.  I am wondering if it is a mechanical problem or a software issue.

[Nick Lovelyday]

Great post, thanks for writing it in so much details.

I'm also currently waiting for a replacement extruder, because it got clogged after about 6-7 small prints.

I want to comment on your clogging colors: I currently got Black, White and Red Makerbot PLA, plus the Clear one that came with the machine. I got no problems with Black and White PLA (tried Clear only once).

My extruder got clogged while printing with Red PLA and looking back at some of my earlier Red prints, I see some lines that where uneven.

Cheers.

[3DwannaB]

A new machine does not set all of the previous experiences posted here to zero.

Read the posts from the previous 18 months and you WILL learn something.

Do NOT overlap the tap. The head will hit it and the extrusions will not be even. NOT ALL tape will work. 3M 2090 is generally accepted as the best. Use denatured alcohol.

Or.. chuck the CRAPOLA tape which WILL stick to you objects and use Aquanet unscented super extra hold... but READ the posts before you try!

Heat the hot end before you level.

One more hard rule... THERE ARE NO HARD RULES!

[Kelly Crittenden]

Thanks for all of the information. 

I haven't tried slowing down the printer to 85mm/s yet, I will have to give that one a try. 

I haven't had any bad clogs yet, but I have had a few close calls. I have been using PLA not from Makerbot, and am still working out the best settings. I have also used the Makerbot clear PLA that comes with the printer and I have had no trouble with it. 

I too have had some problems with the z-axis. trying to move too far down.

Thanks for your post.

Kelly

[Lovelyday]

As far as I know, with the 5th Gen Replicator, you may only use Makerbot brand PLA. Use of other brands apparently voids the warranty on the extruder.

Can anyone confirm this?

[Joe Soap]

I cannot specifically confirm the situation as that needs to come from the horse's mouth.

However I recall from my days working on the service side at HP (when the early DeskJet's were introduced) that in the event failures were returned under warranty to the factory which suggested could have been caused by the customer using non-HP ink then the factory might reject the warranty claim. Knowing the way that HP factories really did go to town to reject warranty claims back then (in order to maintain HP's reputation for delivering high quality products), that might not have simply been HP hearsay.

So it is certainly possible that if MBI see an extraordinary level of extruder failures they might consider doing some deep analysis of those failures. I imagine that the chemical composition of product flowing thru the extruder could potentially be established with today's modern analysis equipment, and if that analysis revealed content which was not in Makerbot's filament then they might have a case.

I would personally be real careful about using non-Makerbot filament with the smart extruders. I wouldn't want MBI coming back at me pushing the blame on non-Makerbot filament, leaving me to start an argument with the filament supplier.

In the event that an extruder failure did occur then I would be sending the extruder back, together with a few inches of filament and a copy of the invoice I had paid to obtain that filament. That way the ball would be very much in their court.

If you bought a Ferrari, would you really want to run it on diesel obtained from the local farmer (assuming it was a diesel engine of course)?

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[tlocane]

I read thru the warranty of my 5th Gen (before sending it back to MBI … TOO many extruder clogs in a short time!) and I could NOT find any mention of only using MBI filament. Maybe there was some technical legalese I missed, but I found nothing.

Interesting that when I called MBI Tech Support to ask about sending it back, they never asked about using 3rd party filament.

[Scottbee]

It would be my guess that they cannot limit you to the use of MBI branded filament per the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

[Joe Soap]

If Makerbot don't fix this extruder issue then they are going to go broke in having to supply replacement smart extruders.

When I got my th gen I enquired with Makerbot where I could buy a spare smart extruder which I could keep on the shelf for emergencies. They responded to advise that that isn't possible immediately because all of production is committed to new 5th gen's, and to dealing with warranty claims.

[3DwannaB]

It is probable that those responsible for making the decision to go forward with the new design and put it on the market and provide replacements for clogs see their time at Stratasys/MBI as very temporary and once the final payoff is made for the purchase of MBI they will be GONE and their wallets will be FULL. Then the poor saps at Stratasys will be left holding the defective bag and they will have to do something about it or they will likely see a class action.
What could they do? RECALL!

We have yet to hear from ONE SINGLE user who has been printing reliably for over 2 weeks constantly (and not just 1 or 2 objects) without a clog requiring extruder replacement or other significant issue.

My bet... Bre spins off the Thingiverse and leaves Stratasys/MBI!

[Ryan Carlyle]

Class action suits are a joke, nobody wins but the lawyers.

It's obvious the product was rushed, but to be honest, this is typical Makerbot and all their other products were rushed too. I don't really see any NEW behavior because of the merger. I'm sure it's influencing decision-making, but it's not obvious the launch would have been any better without the merger hanging a giant wad of cash over Bre's head.

[Chris Wentworth]

I sent my 5th gen back after the third broken extruder.  I was not happy with the print quality either.

The 4th gen they sent me instead is 10 times better in my opinion.  The print quality is better and it builds faster.

I don't know why they went back to the drawing board for the 5th gen but in my opinion, with 20 years of experience in product manufacturing is that the 5th gen is cheap junk.

CW

On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 3:05:28 PM UTC-7, MikerBot wrote:

[Ryan Carlyle]

Your 5g was leveled poorly in that pic.

[Nick Lievendag]

I just looked up what the warranty states for third-party PLA use:

(e) Exclusions:

"The limited warranty shall be voided if alleged Product failure was caused in whole or part by (i) unauthorized modifications, alterations or repair; (ii) parts or Consumables were installed and used that were not certified or approved by MakerBot or its designated representative, including without limitation the use of filament not from MakerBot;" (source: http://www.makerbot.com/legal/warranty/)

This isn't legalese nor hard to understand language, I guess :-)

So closed-source is really closed source, but since the warranty is only six months, I guess it doesn't matter after that. Though, as far as I know, consumers in most EU-countries will win a warranty claim within 2 years though. But that's another discussion altogether.

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[Lovelyday]

A small follow-up on that -especially for EU-consumers - since I read some posts of people being afraid they cannot claim warranty it if the Smart Extruder problems aren't being solved within the warranty time frame. 

The US Warranty states (http://www.makerbot.com/legal/warranty/)
"(d) Warranty Period.  Six (6) months after date of delivery to first End-User (“Warranty Period”)."

While the EU Warranty states (http://www.makerbot.com/legal/warranty-eu/)
"(d) Warranty Period.  Six (6) months after date of delivery to first End-User (“Initial Warranty Period”).  After the Initial Warranty Period and until one (1) year after date of delivery to the first End-User, the End-User must demonstrate that the Product was faulty at the time of delivery (“Warranty Period”)."

But as I said before, most EU-countries have longer warranty period by law, which might overrule the limit above. This is also covered here:

"(i) SOME COUNTRIES, REGIONS, STATES OR PROVINCES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF REMEDIES OR OF INCIDENTAL, PUNITIVE, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, OR THE APPLICABLE TIME PERIODS, SO THE ABOVE LIMITATIONS OR EXCLUSIONS MAY NOT APPLY."

I'm only aware of the longer warranty-periods, but I'm actually very curious to if the limitation of only allowing MakerBot PLA applies in EU-countries. I realize this differs per country. 

FYI: I've no legal background whatsoever. Just curious and hoping someone in this group does :-)

[tlocane]

I have to say, I read thru the warranty two times one week ago and NEVER saw that phrase about non-MakerBot filament! I even had a friend read thru it to make sure and they never saw it either. 

[Dan Newman]

On 01/05/2014, 4:41 AM, tlocane wrote:
> I have to say, I read thru the warranty two times one week ago and NEVER
> saw that phrase about non-MakerBot filament! I even had a friend read thru
> it to make sure and they never saw it either.

It's a living document -- MBI may have updated it, especially in light of
the high return rate for extruders. They may be trying to mitigate some
of that giving themselves an exit clause for cases where someone uses a
truly dreadful filament from some random, unknown supplier.

Dan

[tlocane]

I wouldn't be surprised actually. When they offered to have me return my 5th Gen, they never asked if I had used a 3rd party filament.

[MikerBot]

Hi folks.

Well I finally got my new extruder.   It will be going back.  It has that issue I have read about quite often where the spring tension is not strong enough to consistently seat the nozzle properly in the bottom of the extruder housing.
I am unable to get the build plate level and when printing the nozzle seats at different heights making the quality horrible.   I will give them one more chance before returning this not ready for prime time device.
So far I have been able to use the printer three days since I got it and only had a few good prints.

Also I still have the noise on the Z axis that sounds like the software is telling the build plate to try and move past it's stops before moving up. 
I suspect that the programming is something like this:
"Hey we need to start an operation let's make sure the build plate is at the bottom before we start"
"Hey Z motor, run the plate down to the bottom!"
"Hey Z axis limit switch!  let me know when the build plate is at the bottom"
(Z axis limit switch) "Ummm  It was already at the bottom, moron... should I keep stripping the cogs off the belts?"
"Oh, my bad... I should have checked to see if it was at the bottom before telling you to move.. no you can stop self destructing and move up now... Thanks"

Another thing I noticed is happening.... 
The stripe of PLA that gets extruded at the start of a print to get the nozzle flowing along the front of the build plate was uniform to the front of the build plate when I first got the machine.
It is gradually getting to be more and more at an angle compared to the front of the build plate.

 I am not recommending this thing to my friends at work who are also considering buying a 3d printer.  Maybe the Replicator 2.  

[3DPrinta]

Ever since I found this Group I have been worried about my 5tg Gen. Surprisingly I am so far very satisfied with the printer and my 3d printing work. That said, its my first printer.

In total I've printed around 15 object, each 1-4 hours.

It took me some time to upgrade the firmware, had to restart win 8.1.

I've had two filament loading problems, where the filament actually stopped feeding. That was during start so no major issue.

Printing quality seems good, I guess.

I am running with standard settings, sometimes with support.

I am reusing the blue print paper, over and over again...

No recalibration needed so far.

I am printing from both Thingsinverse and some own design with Freecad, works like a charm I would say.

So... I wonder what I do wrong, everything seems to work, or am I stupid?  ;-)

Regards 3DPrinta.

[Bryon Miller]

Filament not from makerbot?  I'll NEVER buy a makerbot printer again.  They charge more than my source for their plastic and they take forever to ship.  On top of that, they are sold out a lot of the time.  Everyone better just say they're using MBI filament when they do any warranty claims.

[Bryon Miller]

Your lucky.  The extruder usually clogs on that machine, it'll probably clog on you before too long.

[3DwannaB]

Well 3DPrinta you are either really lucky or maybe really unlucky, You can be seen as lucky because so far you seem to be happy with the machine while so many others are not. However, one could also see you as unlucky because you are basing you perceptions on what IMO is a small sample size to judge by and as such will retain the machine for too long and miss out on a refund. Either way I hope it all works out well for you!

On Friday, May 9, 2014 6:25:28 AM UTC-7, 3DPrinta wrote:

[3DC]

I got my Gen 5th about 1 month ago, it worked well in the first 2 weeks. And then it's clogged. I got a new extruder from Makerbot, but it's even worse. No matter how I level the work plate, the nozzle is always too close to the plate, and it inserts into the blue tape. The resolution is worse than the first one.

I'm thinking to change for a replicator 2. Has anyone get both using experiences of 4th and 5th Gen?

[3DPrinta]

Bryon, 3DwannaB...'

I will for sure post here when I get clogged... 

It took me actually a while before I purchased the 5th Gen and I had really close contact with a sales rep at "Makerbot" before I closed the deal.

Maybe I should get back to him and hear what he has to say about the 5th Gen?

/3DPrinta (In Europe)