Replicator 2X and 0.1mm layer height no go

[Jetguy]

Folks, Im not trying to be the guy that bashes the 2X but it's CLEAR
we need to share some knowledge here. There are many, many changes
between the 2X and all previous bots. This means that no, you can't
take what Johny says works on a Replicator 2 (which is a PLA only bot)
and apply that to your 2X, which according to many folks does not work
well with PLA.
With that said, that leaves the 2X in ABS mostly printing.

No, you cannot print ABS at 0.1mm layer height. The reason is, ABS has
too high of a viscosity when melted. Some have asked about running at
higher temps to compensate. Higher temps do NOT make it any more
fluid. In fact, you should never run higher than 230C and even then,
that's too high.

Just understand, there are limits to the hardware and this is one of
them. ABS should not really be run below 0.2mm unless you really want
to go into experimental land. Increasing the heat is the sure way to
get burned ABS jammed in the nozzle and an air print. Then it's a real
pain to clear the nozzle

So fine, we cannot use ABS to print at 0.1 layer height because it's
too thick and then causes the extruder to skip. Again, if we have a
0.4 nozzle and smash that to 0.1mm layer, there is just no way for the
thick plastic to flow out.

So that leaves us with PLA if we want ultra low layer heights.

It's known that PLA does not extrude well in the 2X due the fact the
thermal barrier tube (where the filament goes into the hot end after
the pinch wheel and motor) and mounting changed reducing the amount of
heat conducted away. It's common sense that if one side of a metal
tube is at 230C and the other side is not being cooled well, in time,
the entire tube will reach nearly 230C. PLA melts as low as 170C and
gets soft at even cooler temps. So the PLA begins to melt and soften
nearly at the entrance to the extruder hot end. This means the force
of the filament being pushed downward is transfered to pressure along
the inner wall of the tube and not into forcing the plastic out the
nozzle. Since we are also restricting the layer height to less than
nozzle diameter, it's the same as pinching off the nozzle.In short, a
garanteed mess.


So what can you do?
You can keep messing with settings, but I doubt you will ever find you
can make up for the hardware via software.
That means you can design a fan mod, which blows a stream of cool air
between the heater block and nozzle and the mounting bar above it. You
must activily cool the tube. The other option is to replace both
thermal barrier tubes and the mounting bar with stock Replicator 1
parts. In doing so, you'll have to change the filament pusher as well,
or use washers to shim back the motor from the mounting block so the
filament path lines up with the hotend.


Sorry, I'm being honest and trying to point you to a helpful solution,
but also need to warn you that settings that work for Replicator 2s
don't work because the 2X is so different.

I would like for someone to prove this wrong, publish the settings or
mods you did to make it work. At the same time, the point of this post
is to explain to new users WHY they can't get what should still be
considered experimental in other bots too, to work on the brand new
2X.

Again, all I'm saying here is that 0.1mm layer height is going to be
extremely experimental. Don't expect it to work. IF it does work, be
happy and share your settings.

[Jay]

Close enough to what I have found by trial and error.

For example. I trammed several times until I got the center 1/3rd perfect. Then tried it at .27 MQ (which worked fairly good)...and yes, I know if you select "HQ" you are using a different slicer...I tried it at .1 HQ and had...not so good results. I was basically printing a cylinder with a thin lip. At .1 it actually started squishing the lip and making it spread out on the build plate. Something that wasn't as noticeable in .27 layers. I also had to drastically slow to get rid of some of the artifacts (zippers corner doubles..etc)....but still can't get rid of all. Yesterday I printed some very small (1" x 1") parts that looked like a barrel chair. At .27 they were great at .1 they had surface artifacts that weren't in the other prints.

I also have a Rep 2 at home now (yeah..I know)....Was going to give some finer printing a go this weekend...

Jay

[PhGeis]

My rep2x printed nicely .1 mm Layer High with the makerware High Setting right Out of the box, this is once! Than I swapped to the wongcommander extruder, not cause of problems but because it makes more sens in the theorie and is less complicated KISS! now .1mm still workes. The same after switching to sailfish. Right now I am trying on acceleration of the .2 ABS extrusion...

What Jetguy writes makes totally sense and I do 100% agree that the theory of PLA printing in the factory setup of the rep2x is already keeping me away from trying.
maybe I will start modding at least on of the two sides for PLA printing... We will see.

Buy the way: what do I need the white isolation stuff around the extruder for? Keeping the heat from melting the carriage?
Ordered Carl's alu carriage, and think I saw pictures of his rep2 without the isolation. Do i have to replace it once it is damaged, if I have the alu carriage installed?

[Jetguy]

Thanks for sharing that fact as I was confused in the other thread if
you were talking about the 2X or maybe a 2 pulling the off a good 0.1
layer print.

Ok, so the Insulation around the heater block. You need it, even with
the aluminum carriage. The idea is to keep certain parts hot and
certain parts cool. Removing it allows both convection and radiant
heating of other parts we intend to keep cool. If I'm already
suggesting the 2X has less than ideal thermals (keeping hot part hots
and cool parts cool) just because the carriage can take the heat
doesn't mean it's a good idea and further, pretty much hurts the other
aspects of the machine. For example, if printing really small towers
like the points on a roof of a church or something, then the radiant
heat and the convection are both bad in a sitaution liek that that
requires cooling of the print. Further, if you add a print cooling
fan, now it cools the uncovered heater and spreads the heat to
everything else even more.

[PhGeis]

Okay! makes sense.
My 0.1 print was an organic free form model ( scan of an dental plaster model). So maybe you dont see the errors so much like in geometries! And I am new to 3 d printing. I might not see errors you will spot right on.
The upper part from the hot end, the part you see when the extruder is removed is not having full surface contact to the aluminium block. Thermal thinking This is an no go since surface contact is needed for heat transition. Cooling. Could I just fill the gap with heat conducting paste, the stuff I use for my CPU? I will post some pictures as soon as I am back to my machine beginning next week.

[Rob Griesbeck]

I've done a few things at .1 on my Rep2X, no issues. Can you expand on why it shouldn't work?

[Bottleworks]

I'm also wondering why Jetguy feels it can't be done.  It's not the ABS because I've also done it several times. 

[Jetguy]

Like I said, post the settings used, If it's so succesfull than anyone
can do it right?

Or put another way, PhGeis was having issues and was using whpthomas
0.1 layer height Replicator 2 profiles that were meant for PLA.
It was previously a highly tested subject what was consider proper
layer height to nozzle width ratios. There was a limit and it is
different for PLA and ABS
Combine that previous testing and knowledge with the facts of:
New user:
New machine:
Different extruder than ever before:
Issue with PLA such that most users would be using ABS since that's
what ships with the machine.

All I'm saying is that the new user probably should consider 0.1 layer
height a miracle if they get it to work with their limited experience.
Couple that with what is known to be different about the 2x from the
hundred of discussions on the Rep-2.

The final answer and lesson for the day is, a 2X is not just a souped
up 2. Therefore, profiles settings, and some discussion/problem fixes
should be 2X centric and don't take it that just because someone said
it works great on a Replicator 2, does it mean you can then carry that
info over to a 2X.
And then we roll into the PLA VS ABS debates.

SO lets twist this, what are the setting you use to get ABS to print
reliably at 0.1mm layer height?
Slicer used?
Feedrate?
Alterations to settings?
Any mods to the bot?
Example file used? (thingiverse link or whatever)

Again the point of the thread IS NOT to say it cannot be done, but
rather, it is dificult and because several folks seem to imply it's so
easy, we have relatively new members trying this right off the bat.

[Dan Newman]

On 10 May 2013 , at 1:43 PM, PhGeis wrote:

> Okay! makes sense.

As others pointed out, 0.1 mm layer heights are problematic
with ABS. At that thin of layer heights, the extruder is
trying to put out very small "bursts" and then spread it out
like butter. Unfortunately, ABS plastic doesn't spread that
thin very well and behaves more like chunky peanut butter.
The finish appearance will not be very good.

As to wingcommander's profiles, those are indeed for PLA
on a Rep 2. ABS is a whole different beast. And the 2X
appears to have differences as well. If you really want
to experiment more with wingcommander's profiles, the
first thing you may need to do is go into the Dimension
plugin and change that filament packing density to 0.85
(the ballpark figure for ABS).

Dan

[Jetguy]

"Cooling. Could I just fill the gap with heat conducting paste, the
stuff I use for my CPU"

No, I would say do not use thermal cpu paste to fill in the gap on a
2X hot end mounting bar. With the heat, it would just run out
everywhere. Thermal epoxy is not a good idea as then how coould you
later adjust the hot end heights if you had to if you ever changes
nozzles or something. Basically, it requires a different block, but if
that's the case, the older Rep1 actually was ideal in thermal
respects. The threaded thermal barrier tubes provide maximum surface
area inteface and contact between the tube and the block which results
in maximum cooling effect on the top of the tube. Threads are a ton
more surface area than the smooth outer bore of the 2X stock thermal
barrier tube. However, the only person I know who knows the dimensions
of both the Rep1 dual mounting bar and the Rep- 2X mounting bar is
Carl becuase he designed the aluminum carriage upgrade to fit both and
is the most qualified person (besides the folks at MakerBot) about the
hole spacing and what lines up and what doesn't. I do know this, the
Rep1 bar is also not as wide, and the filament path is closer to the
motor. That change was made to prevent the issue where the pinch drive
wheel on the motor had the setscrew not on the flat of the shaft. In
other words, a known problem on the Rep-2 was changed in the 2X and
that's also why for Rep-2 owners, Makerbot doesn't just sell a kit or
retrofit the 2X plastic extruder parts.
It' one of those things where so many changed, you have to change the
entire parts group as one.

Again, to kind of answer Rob and Bottlework's questions, at least can
we agree on these items?
0.1 layer height is not easy and therefore not the first thing a
novice should try with no previous 3D printing experience.
0.1 layer height requires that everything is perfect. First layer
height, bed tramming, flat surface, surface prep (cleaning etc),
temperatures, settings, the STL must be good, on, and on.
Generally, ABS is considered hard due to it's nature to curl and also
not stick to the platform
ABS is thicker and doesn't flow as well so ultra low layer height, bad
first layer height or tramming, and high feedrates could easily result
in prints that fail.

And while a hot topic, has anyone with a 2X had success with PLA?
If so, what layer height, speeds, software, settings, and specific stl
were used?
Any mods?


I don't think I am characterizing something unrealistic here even
though there are other members who want to argue my every word.

[Darrell jan]

Are we just talking the 2x, or is the difficulty with 0.1mm ABS applicable to any machine?

Unfortunately my hard drive died so I can't print anything right now anyway. And a problem with most Apple machines (and most laptops) is that they're very challenging to service.

[Jetguy]

Trying to keep this 2X centric although information on issues with
printing in ABS at 0.1mm layer height is certainly on topic to show
that it's not a specific fault of the 2X. In other words, I'm trying
to just be factual about this in that because of the current lack of
success some folks are having with PLA, it forces them into using ABS.
I mean the machine does ship with ABS right? Therefore, if there is
some historical evidence that ABS is difficult to print with,
especially at 0.1 layer height, even on other machines, then it's not
out of line to say that a new user, getting a 2X to print with ABS at
0.1mm could be highly problematic. Further, that likely, there is not
an easy fix or setting they could just use to make it work.

[Bottleworks]

My experience is with the replicator 1 and replicator 2 with regards to printing ABS at .1mm. I can post photos in the other thread, but it would be from a 1 or 2, not a 2X.

Jetguy, what brand of ABS plastic are you seeing your issues with? It might change based on brand.

[Carl]

I don't want to hijack a Rep 2X specific thread! :-) So I have posted my thoughts here: https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups=#!topic/makerbot-users/bPPDZHzr7nk[1-25-false]

[TinyBot]

I have to agree with most of your findings. I also have issues printing at 0.1 layers. Most notably dry prints and warps (especially small cylindrical shapes). Also extruder failure to feed filament (Which might be attributed by high humidity here in Singapore). This isn't to say that i have not gotten some successful prints at 0.1 but its rare. maybe 1 out of 5 prints. Maybe there is a sweet spot between 0.1 and 0.2 we have yet to find.

In summary i think what you are trying to say is 0.1 CAN be done but it isn't recommended as the properties of the material (ABS) have a higher rate of failure being used this way.

[Bradley Pearce]

If you have a stock machine, then I can agree that you're going to have a harder time.  If you have a machine correctly setup and have the correct modifications, your failure rates should be low. 

Sent from my iPhone

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[Bottleworks]

Of course, I don't have a 2X, so maybe the 2X doesn't print ABS as well as the replicator 1 & 2. I don't mean to imply anything about the 2X, due to having never touched a 2X.

[Joseph Chiu]

Just a sanity check - people are leaving their 2x door open and removing the top hood while printing with PLA, right? If anything, I would blow air with a box fan into the bot, too.

On May 10, 2013 9:28 PM, "Bottleworks" <bottlew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Of course, I don't have a 2X, so maybe the 2X doesn't print ABS as well as the replicator 1 & 2. I don't mean to imply anything about the 2X, due to having never touched a 2X.
>

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> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MakerBot Operators" group.
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[PattyChuck]

Here's my experience:

I am totally new to plastic 3D printing (done a ton of SLA printing at work). Right out of the box, I had difficulty printing .1mm (and no difficulty with .27mm). I did everything from installing a glass build plate to installing Sailfish and using RepG. I could never successfully get the 2X to respond properly under these conditions, so I'm back to the MBI firmware using MakerWare. My factory build plate is flat within .127mm, and putting a glass plate on there didn't make it any better so I ditched it all together. I was going to install the "upgraded" extruders, but honestly, I don't see how or why they would make any bit of difference on a 2X. I did find that the adjustment screw that sets the depth of the spring on the top of the stock extruder was probably set too tight. My best results have been to loosen the screw until the lever that releases the pinch wheel is allowed to snap all the way open (in other words, if the screw is too tight, you'll notice that it is impossible to pull the lever all the way to the open position.) I've also found that the temperature readout on the display and the temperature measured with a probe differ by about 10°C. I have bumped my plate temp up to 115°, and the probe reads around 105-107°. The temperature drops significantly at the edges of the plate (25mm and beyond and it drops to the mid 90's), but I believe this is due to the location of the heating element. I also had to play around with the nozzle height. I threw away the cheesy business card and went with metal shim stock. I use the feeler gauge to set the nozzle height to about .15mm and then fine tune it during the first layer of printing. If it doesn't stick, I loosen each adjustment screw by 1/8 of a turn until proper adhesion. The last thing that I have found is necessary is to "persuade" the extruder. When the printer starts by laying down the first clearing bead of ABS, I have found it necessary to "push" the ABS filament into the extruder by hand. Sometimes it's also necessary to do this as it's laying down the first layer on the build plate.

By doing all of this, a print will have about a 60-70% first-time success rate (meaning 30-40% of the time I need to start the print over during the first layer). If it makes it past the first layer, I have experienced about an 80% successful build rate. If the print is going to fail after a successful first layer, I have found that it normally fails in the first ten layers.

Finally, if you're using a raft, MakerWare lays down that pointless blob of plastic (I think it's called the "anchor") right at the beginning of the raft. Unfortunately, it seems as though the second nozzle always goes right over the top of it. This will pull the raft off the build plate about 80% of the time.

In summary:

• I'm using MakerWare to slice at .1mm
• I'm using the stock build plate, heated to 115°C
• Nozzle height set with feeler gauge at .1mm then fine-tuned during printing
• Filament sometimes needs to be "pushed" into the extruder during the first layer of printing.

I've done several prints that aren't on Thingiverse (parts for work), but here are the ones I've had success printing at .1mm:

3D Voronoi Yoda

Yoda

Darth Vader

Hollow Dodecahedron (shameless plug... I modeled this one)

Thingiverse parts I've not been able to print at .1mm:

The Eiffel Tower (I honestly don't think this one is possible... it's now a personal challenge to get it to work)

As a final thought, I have not seen much notable difference between using the default "High" settings in MakerWare and using the .15mm ABS custom settings found here. Since the .15mm setting still uses the MakerWare slicer, it's about 10x faster than using the Skeinforge slicer utilized under the "High" setting. I haven't messed around with the PLA settings yet, but it's on the list of things to do now that I've got ABS working pretty good.

[Jay]

I have a 2X at work and a 2 at home so I am a unique position to comment on both (Chris had one of each at one time also).

 

The R2 gives you the confidence to print thick and large structures without much worry of warping. Right now I am printing Wingcommander's YATH. When I printed this on the 2X I had to add ear rafts or it warped but on the R2 it's just chugging along. 

 

I will say that with just Kapton on the 2X and blue tape (or bare Acrylic) on the R2 my prints stick hard. I see all these posts about glass, hairspray, olive oil...etc to get parts to stick but most times I have to get out the plastic faced hammer to get mine off. I haven't had a print knocked off except for the time I tried to reach in and pull a booger out during a print...bonk!

 

I've already commented on the noise difference.

 

As far as the .1 on the 2X I know from experience that you have to tram it perfect and anything bigger than a baseball is really hard to get it to print. As someone already said, the ABS doesn't like to be pushed like that. It was the same on the Cube but because the software is so opaque I wasn't sure if it was the ABS or the settings that crapped the print.

 

I haven't tried anything less than .27 on the R2 yet...heck, I just got it....this only the 5th build I've made on it.

 

Jetguy, I understand what you are talking about with the ABS....what's your take on PLA?

 

Jay

[Enginwiz]

Hello Jetguy,

I printed some small items in ABS with 0,15 mm layer height on my Replicator 2.
Wingcommanders extruder upgrade came out as nice prints. You might have
seen the pictures in the thread about printing ABS on a Replicator 2.

I printed a bunch of calibration cubes to tune in the settings for ABS.
The surface of the printed part looks smoother when printing with PLA at the same layer height.

My Makerware slicer profiles for ABS are on Thingiverse.

[Count Spatula]

Printed this on 2X, it's about 3.5" high. Turned out nicer than I thought it would.

ABS, .15mm - 3 shells - 10% fill - 50mm/s - 100 travel - 230

The messy part at the top is from assembly not printing.

[Count Spatula]

Forgot to add it was using the MakerWare with skeinforge

[Jetguy]

Nice print!

On May 11, 8:52 pm, Count Spatula <countspat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Forgot to add it was using the MakerWare with skeinforge
>
>
>
> On Saturday, May 11, 2013 8:46:47 PM UTC-4, Count Spatula wrote:
>

> > <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zG9v3AxClxw/UY7iVsVqzmI/AAAAAAAAQC...>

> > Printed this on 2X, it's about 3.5" high. Turned out nicer than I thought
> > it would.
>
> > ABS, .15mm - 3 shells - 10% fill - 50mm/s - 100 travel - 230
>
> > The messy part at the top is from assembly not printing.
>

> > <https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-d80JhdPEudI/UY7iYGuCEPI/AAAAAAAAQC...><https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-3VZKhoQNnsI/UY7ialpBnVI/AAAAAAAAQC...>

[Darrell jan]

I am wasting bandwidth by posting the same picture that I put in a similar discussion under Jetty Firmware. Shame, shame. :-p

The left owl, with the shiny head, is black Makerware ABS, 0.05 mm. Shininess due to some acetone I was trying out.

The right owl is black ABS, 0.1 mm.

The little white owl is white ABS from Joseph, 0.1 mm.

The gray owl is PLA. I think it's 0.05mm, actually don't remember for sure.

The dragon is green ABS, again I forget, but I think it was 0.05mm. If not then it was 0.1mm.

[Eighty]

Darrell,
By my calculations, it took you approximately 6.2 years to print these. Am I far off?

[Darrell jan]

Maybe if that dime is really a dinner plate?

Part of the reason I only print 0.1mm on small objects is that it takes so long. I think the black 0.05mm layer owl took about 4 hours, and doesn't really look any better than the 0.1mm layer owl. But didn't know until I tried it.

[Darrell jan]

Shouldn't forget to mention, Sailfish was a big help! In fact, I guess I was inspired by those tiny squirrels.

[Bradley Pearce]

.1mm layer height with Octave "yellow" ABS filament. . Printed
great. Shows the details of the modeled "skin" quite well. The only
issues I had were with some artifacts from the supports. I printed
this at a 45deg angle with only the the guy's back heels on the HBP
and full supports enabled on a replicator 1.

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[Wingcommander whpthomas]

I understand what you are talking about with the ABS....what's your take on PLA?

On the Replicator 2 I regularly print at 100 micron (0.1mm) at 120mm/s infill and 40 mm/s for the outer perimeter with great results.

I have side panels and a hood that has a extractor fan. If I turn the fan off, prints can fail, so for the 2X printing PLA opening the front and pulling off the hood is a must IMHO.

There may also be a problem with the 2X extruder gripping the PLA filament. PLA  is hard, and it needs a lot of bite pressure to grip it, having looked at Kobus' 2X I am not convinced it would work as well on PLA as the Mk8 extruder upgrade. But I agree with the earlier commends, that the sprint tension is critical, ABS doesn't like too much and PLA needs a bit more - it all comes down to the choice of spring and the one in the 2X is very small and stiff - not one that I would have specified.

[kyo]

Straight out of the box, Rep 2x, using repg with default profiles (all I did was set the diameter of the filament and I think I copied the travel speeds from makerware).. I am able to print .1mm layers in ABS with decent reliability. Certain parts do present some occasional warping problems, but most do not, at least not enough to cause print failures. I rarely have any problems at all with .15mm and that's a setting a use quite often. The only time I run into bigger print problems is with thin tall features that aren't very stable.

I have no special 3d printing skills to speak of.. I've designed parts to be 3d printed for years, but this is the first one I've owned.

All I've done is replace the build plate with another supplied by makerbot, the original they sent with the machine was nothing resembling flat. The new one is actually very close except for the extreme edges of the plate, which isn't a big deal for me (maybe the last 1/8" around the edges slopes off a bit).

[Jetguy]

Your reply is a contradiction. You start off with "straight out of the
box" and the last paragraph is "All I had to do..."

Here's the gripe, you clearly read this forum. You clearly read
information outside of the directions. This then makes you no longer a
"Newby" status.
The poor soul who gets one and follows the directions and the bed
level script fails and hit in the center, do the directions then say,
"Contact MakerBot support, some machines are shipped with faulty
beds" ?
Did MakerBot "officially" say anything anywhere else other than this
group and only after repeated requests that beds may not be flat?

Do you think someone who only followed the directions provide could
get the same result with Makerware witha real "out of the box"
experience?
You admit to taking settings from Makerware and then changing those in
Replicator-G, is that in the directions?

My point is NOT to say it cannot be done. You and others took that as
a challenge and great, pat yourself on the back, you are now an
experienced operator.
What it doesn't solve is the true "out of the box" experience, the
knowledge and documentation required to get there for someone who has
not read or joined the forum.

I don't think the directions say, "Read the MakerBot Operators's
forum" before attempting to print.

[Carl]

Very true... that would probably be the initial experience of anyone who bought one of these... The manual is basic at best... add the marketing hype and it can leave you feeling like the idiot because yours didn't work like the advertising said it would!

The first time you get your machine to print you feel so impressed that it can actually print... a few hundred hours later and you laugh at how bad that initial print actually was!:-)

The forum is the only reason 90+% of people are able to make their machines work some of the time as oppose to never...

[Jetguy]

0.05 is impressive. Pics please?


On May 13, 7:55 am, Damian Gto <damian...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Im sure that is not true.
> I have done zero hardware change in my rep 2x. I only use other software
> then makeware and I have printed at 0.05.
> Even with makerware and skeinforge I could print at 0.1mm.
> Sure I  have read a lot, but I do that on all stuff I get, just to learn
> more about the thing I did/wanted to buy.
> If you think you can print without know things about it, then you will fail.
> Like if you drive a car you know how to drive, for you have learnt about it.
> Even with a 2d printer you learn how it works. So why should a 3D printer
> be any different?
> I also feel that some members of this group think without reading here you
> can not print any good.
> Wake up and understand this group is very small % of the users that own a
> makerbot printer and you can look all around the internet and see how other
> can print as good then anybody do here.
> Even at 0.1mm is common and just to write you can not do it and then change
> the statement when proof is posted many time, is just funny.
> The drawback to print at 0.1mm and better is the time it take, but it do
> look better.
> But I would not recommend to start with that. You should start with 0.3mm
> and work your way down to what ever you want to print.
> In the same time you learn the hardware and you also learn how the software
> do work and what you shall change to get as much out of the printer you
> can. You could easy do that without even read a single post here. Most of
> the time you can find youtube videos that is very help full and show a lot
> more  in much less time then you have to spend here to read about it.
>
> In the end its up to you to learn all you need to make stuff that look
> good, like all other areas that you need to learn what you are doing to get
> a good result.
>
> So keep learning and make good 3D prints...

[Lloyd Park]

I received my 2X less than a week ago and have been very happy with ABS at .27mm.  I decided to try .1mm in response to this post and had a very disappointing first attempt.

While watching the print I realized I had 2 problems.  First was that there was too much heat.  The build plate was keeping the first few layers soft on small prints, causing the material to get pushed around by the next layer.  The second (related) issue was that I had trammed too close.  I originally used a .09mm feeler gauge to ensure good adhesion to the plate but this also cause the previous layers to get pushed around.  I dropped the build plate tempurature to 90c and re-trammed with a .1mm feeler gauge and things came out much better but still not perfect.  I'll post some pictures when I get out of work.

It seems like some things will never work as well at .1mm with ABS.  Bridging, for example, always results in at least a few broken strands, even over surprisingly short distances of <5mm.  I will keep trying though.

I have a stock Replicator 2X with only a spool holder upgrade (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:53780).  I used MakerWare at HIGH (Skeinforge), but played with shells, infill, and temperatures.

[Joseph Chiu]

IIRC, you can get extrude a higher amount of plastic where bridging begins (increase the flow rate).  That might be all you need to get a bridges to form well.

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[kyo]

"My point is NOT to say it cannot be done."

Sorry, but that's -exactly- what you said.. pretty clearly in fact. Let me quote from your original post..

"No, you cannot print ABS at 0.1mm layer height. The reason is, ABS has 
too high of a viscosity when melted. Some have asked about running at 
higher temps to compensate. Higher temps do NOT make it any more 
fluid. In fact, you should never run higher than 230C and even then, 
that's too high."

Yes I did make some 'changes' I suppose by using the non-default software. However, I can get it printing in makerware as well.. it's just a little prettier/easier with RepG because of the way it builds supports.

I did get a replacement build plate, but I was printing successfully just fine before that.. I was limited to the middle of the build plate however.. so they replaced a manufacturing defect. I don't really see what the big deal is or why anybody couldn't figure that out.

You keep making wild sweeping claims/conclusions based on what I assume is your particular experience. I guess the rest of us 'newbies' just have some amazing beginner's luck?

[Jetguy]

"I guess the rest of us 'newbies' just have some
amazing beginner's luck?"

No, you guys are just a bunch of folks who spent $2800 or more, and
spent 8-12 weeks waiting to get your machine and want to reply to
anything I say, good or bad.

Anyway, if i'm just so out of line, is Dan Newman wrong too?

"As others pointed out, 0.1 mm layer heights are problematic
with ABS. At that thin of layer heights, the extruder is
trying to put out very small "bursts" and then spread it out
like butter. Unfortunately, ABS plastic doesn't spread that
thin very well and behaves more like chunky peanut butter.
The finish appearance will not be very good."

Is Jay wrong too?
"Close enough to what I have found by trial and error. "

Is TinyBot also wrong?

"I have to agree with most of your findings"

Is PattyChuck aslo dead wrong?

You didn't insult me, bu your fellow owners certainly should be upset
as they are having trouble and NOTHING you have typed helps them print
at 0.10mm layer height.

On May 13, 4:38 pm, kyo <k2k...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "My point is NOT to say it cannot be done."
>

> Sorry, but that's *-exactly-* what you said.. pretty clearly in fact. Let

[Dan Newman]

On 13 May 2013 , at 2:58 PM, Jetguy wrote:

> "I guess the rest of us 'newbies' just have some
> amazing beginner's luck?"
>
> No, you guys are just a bunch of folks who spent $2800 or more, and
> spent 8-12 weeks waiting to get your machine and want to reply to
> anything I say, good or bad.
>
> Anyway, if i'm just so out of line, is Dan Newman wrong too?
>
> "As others pointed out, 0.1 mm layer heights are problematic
> with ABS. At that thin of layer heights, the extruder is
> trying to put out very small "bursts" and then spread it out
> like butter. Unfortunately, ABS plastic doesn't spread that
> thin very well and behaves more like chunky peanut butter.
> The finish appearance will not be very good."

And I stand by that: 0.1 mm (and less) layer heights are problematic
with ABS. I've printed 0.10 and 0.05 mm with ABS. I've seen ABS prints
at 0.01 mm layer heights. In general, the surface finish is not as good
as doing the same with PLA. So, personally, I use PLA below 0.15 mm
layer heights.

Put differently, after getting past plate flatness, plate tramming,
temperature control, and extruder skipping issues you can definitely
print ABS at 0.10 mm layer heights and lower. Question is, is the
surface finish acceptable to you? It's generally not to me but I
have printers which can do both PLA and ABS and so I can easily see
for myself the improvement to be had by using PLA for layer heights
below 0.15 mm.

And if you need to do a 0.1 mm layer height print spanning a large
region of your build plate, you really, really need a flat plate
and good tramming. Doing small, tiny prints at 0.10 mm layer
heights is not that difficult once you have the plate-to-extruder
gap set correctly.

But hey, I also prefer macs to pcs. And I'd like to see a
US Constitutional Ammendment which states that legislators cannot
pass a new law without first abolishing two old laws.

Dan

[Lloyd Park]

You can see that I'm still having some issues with bridges and overhangs, but overall I think it looks pretty good.  I believe the waviness is directly caused by the stepper in the extruder and I'm not sure how to fix it.  The parts that came out well kind of amaze me.

[Dan Newman]

On 13 May 2013 , at 5:10 PM, Lloyd Park wrote:

> You can see that I'm still having some issues with bridges and overhangs, but overall I think it looks pretty good. I believe the waviness is directly caused by the stepper in the extruder and I'm not sure how to fix it. The parts that came out well kind of amaze me.

That waviness is not likely to be the stepper motor: it's much to regular repeating at the
same locations on each layer. Since steppers are all relative motion, what's the odds that
some problem like that lines up on each layer instead of precessing?

You should look at the gcode in a gcode viewer. My guess is that those are the edges of
polygonal facets in the STL. With accelerated printing, artifacts can show up at the
facet edges making them pronounced. That's one of the things that the advanced algorithms
attempt to deal with.

Some things you can try is using Altshell to run unaccelerated on the outermost layer.
Or use the Speed plugin's "perimeter slowdown" and set to a very low value (e.g., 0.33).

Some of the jitter in the names on the back of the bot looks a lot like corner ringing.
You may need to decrease the max accelerations a bit. I don't think it's corner ringing
on the back side of the legs since I don't see it damping. More likely to be facet edges
in the STL. (However, why the STL has polygon edges there is not clear: would seem like
fewer triangles would be needed.)

Dan

[Lloyd Park]

Wow, thanks for the info, dnewman.  What you said about the ridges lining up makes perfect sense.  I've been working with MakerWare up till now but I guess it's time to switch to ReplicatorG so I can have more control over the print.

Also, my pictures keep ending up inside the quoted part of the message..

I tried again above.

[Dan Newman]

On 16 May 2013 , at 1:11 AM, Alchemate wrote:

> dnewman, I'm the out of the box noob that Jetguy has been speaking about.

I don't own a Rep 2X and so don't have good suggestions on 2X starting
settings to offer.

Dan

[Darrell jan]

Sorry to take so long to reply. My hard drive died...so not only have I been out of touch, I lost a lot of info that I was too lazy to backup. But, I wasn't keeping careful track of the settings, mostly just using seat of the pants. I guess that because it wasn't that hard to do. 

On Thursday, May 16, 2013 12:50:43 AM UTC-7, Alchemate wrote:

Darrell, This looks great. Is there anywhere we could see some of the settings used for....any of them?

[Joseph Chiu]

Darrell, in our long-ago prior lives, my wife and I both did a lot of IT work.  Hang on to your drive - there's a chance you can resurrect your drive and/or use data recovery software to reconstruct a large portion of the filesystem.

--

[Alchemate]

Ok, so it's really easy to do but there is a forum here to discuss it's difficulties. Sweet.

Damian Gto has some a couple of good points on their various links and sites. If anyone was in a similar boat starting out with the Rep 2x it's not a bad place to begin.

[CornGolem]

Soooo what's going to come out of this discussion ?
New users can do some mechanical calibration (bed and belts) but I think they won't make mechanical upgrades (add/replace parts) before they have become familiar with the machine.
So the best way to help them would be to provide a profile that can make successful 0,1mm ABS prints on a Replicator 2X with a particular material (polylac PA-747 or 757 or others).

All of you who succeeded, why don't you share your data so we can see the common points and establish the final profile !

Le vendredi 10 mai 2013 23:28:27 UTC+2, Jetguy a écrit :

Like I said, post the settings used, If it's so succesfull than anyone
can do it right?

Or put another way, PhGeis was having issues and was using whpthomas
0.1 layer height Replicator 2 profiles that were meant for PLA.
It was previously a highly tested subject what was consider proper
layer height to nozzle width ratios. There was a limit and it is
different for PLA and ABS
Combine that previous testing and knowledge with the facts of:
New user:
New machine:
Different extruder than ever before:
Issue with PLA such that most users would be using ABS since that's
what ships with the machine.

All I'm saying is that the new user probably should consider 0.1 layer
height a miracle if they get it to work with their limited experience.
Couple that with what is known to be different about the 2x from the
hundred of discussions on the Rep-2.

The final answer and lesson for the day is, a 2X is not just a souped
up 2. Therefore, profiles settings, and some discussion/problem fixes
should be 2X centric and don't take it that just because someone said
it works great on a Replicator 2, does it mean you can then carry that
info over to a 2X.
And then we roll into the PLA VS ABS debates.

SO lets twist this, what are the setting you use to get ABS to print
reliably at 0.1mm layer height?
Slicer used?
Feedrate?
Alterations to settings?
Any mods to the bot?
Example file used? (thingiverse link or whatever)

Again the point of the thread IS NOT to say it cannot be done, but
rather, it is dificult and because several folks seem to imply it's so
easy, we have relatively new members trying this right off the bat.







On May 10, 5:08 pm, Bottleworks <bottleworks...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm also wondering why Jetguy feels it can't be done.  It's not the ABS
> because I've also done it several times.
>
>
>
> On Friday, May 10, 2013 5:03:45 PM UTC-4, Rob Griesbeck wrote:
>
> > I've done a few things at .1 on my Rep2X, no issues. Can you expand on why
> > it shouldn't work?

[Damian Gto]

Most of the time you can do this on a stock printer. you just need to calibrate the printer and that is hard to share profiles, for it depending on many things.

I have even done 0.05mm, but it just take so much more time. Now I just make things at 0.15,

[TaErog]

 "Again, all I'm saying here is that 0.1mm layer height is going to be
extremely experimental. Don't expect it to work. IF it does work, be
happy and share your settings."

 

I think that is Fair . .

 

Also, I think people must remember these “printers” are not text/2D printers (I think people still do not FULLY separate the two) With a 2d text printer the printer is built to print at maximum resolution and simulate lower res, normally for speed.  

3D printers are an ENRIELY different beast!  And this resolution relationship is inversed. Low res ~.3mm should be no problem, .2mm the workhorse, and .1mm a workable max that should be attainable BUT not practical or used for every print with out tuning. 

 

 

Also, I think people must remember these “printers” are not text/2D printers (I think people still do not FULLY separate the two) With a 2d text printer the printer is built to print at maximum resolution and simulate lower res, normally for speed.   3D printers are an ENRIELY different beast!  And this resolution relationship is inversed. Low res ~.3mm should be no problem, .2mm the workhorse, and .1mm the workable max that should be attainable BUT not practical or used for every print.  .2mm seems to be the best balance.

You have the physical max resolution of the steppers, and limitations of the apparatus like various tolerances and backlash etc.  But also the materials you use have different physical properties, they have different properties at different temperatures, can be effected by moisture, filler (color) and ambient temperatures.  On top of that the object you print can exacerbate the basic limitations of this style of 3D printing and the materials that are used.  And on top of all of that the settings you use can radically change the outcome of the print.

That is ALLOT of variables! And they ALL have to be spot on or dealt with for YOUR printer to print at .1mm.

Surprisingly my printer was quite close and my 3-4th print was at .1mm and perfect, but If I need to print at .1mm again I need to do a few test prints as I changed quite a few variables (as I changed FW and slicers).

 

 

[Damian Gto]

Even with my warped built plate and a little slipping on the carriage I can easy print at 0.1mm.

If I make a model I just print it in 0.3mm and low infill to see how it look and to make some measurement on it.

When I think its okey I print at 0.15mm and with the infill it should have, to se that everything is okey.

After that I print it in that resolution I want it in. most of the time its 0.1mm

If I have time I even print at 0.05mm. 

Still my printer is stock hardware, beside the stress release cable system I have on it.

I have hard time to understand why not any rep2x can not print at 0.1mm. 

[Jetguy]

Impress us and solve the problems folks are having printing with PLA
on the 2X, then come back with a post of the settings or mods and a
picture of the quality you got at 0.1mm in PLA.

[Dan Newman]

>
> I have hard time to understand why not any rep2x can not print at 0.1mm.

Printing a single, not very big item at 0.1 mm is not too difficult. Printing
a full build plate of them at the same time at 0.1 mm is an entirely different
matter. It certainly can be done. But it's by no means easy out of the box.

Dan

[Damian Gto]

True, but printing on the whole build plate is more difficult on most resolution. 

But the true fact is that few will print stuff on the whole build plate.

Most of the time they print stuff that is max 1/3 of the build plate.

And you can do that with 0.1mm on a stock rep2x, if its calibrated.

Right now I do try to print stuff at 0.03mm. I did try with 0.01mm but the plastic start to blob after 10 layers or so.

[TaErog]

I agree, when I needed to a single object at .1mm it was/is never a problem . . a plate? have not tried that true fully at that res as I nave needed to so far, but agree it takes a extra level of calibration to get any full pate working perfectly.

 

PLA  I have had rather ok success with it . . But I have only one spool of white, and used my own profile as EVERY other profile I found not only did not work but got rather bad,  Temperature is the biggest thing and fans are the solution!

 

Also on ABS with the rep2x . . I did get my hood and found it tends to kill long prints (too much heat captured)  So I am cutting a vent on the top to let out a measured about of air (louvers, or a temp controlled low rpm fan is still in the question)

 

Also I moved to Simplify3D's Creator slicer for now (big update for makerbot users and other features this week)  so this is also changing the way I am printing.

[Damian Gto]

I did look at Simplify 3d, but it cost to much, when there is so many that is free. But if it has a huge benefit over other then it could be more interesting. 

Right now I use Cura. I like the GUI :-)

Would be fun to know how many % of the users do print on the whole build plate regular.

I would be surprised if its over 5%.

[Dan Newman]

On 27 May 2013 , at 9:21 AM, Damian Gto wrote:

> True, but printing on the whole build plate is more difficult on most
> resolution.
> But the true fact is that few will print stuff on the whole build plate.
> Most of the time they print stuff that is max 1/3 of the build plate.

The bot is marketed as having a working build volume roughly the size of the
entire build plate. Therefore, it is expected to work full volume at the
marketed resolution.

> And you can do that with 0.1mm on a stock rep2x, if its calibrated.
> Right now I do try to print stuff at 0.03mm. I did try with 0.01mm but the
> plastic start to blob after 10 layers or so.

Small items down to at *least* 0.01 mm is achievable on a Thing-o-Matic.
(Other people have done even thinner; I've only gone down to 0.01 mm
myself.) So, I would certainly hope that on a Replicator 1, 2, or 2X the
same can be achieved. And, in point of fact, I know that it can be as
I've done 0.01 mm on my Rep 1 Dual. I've not tried that on my Rep 2.

Dan

[Damian Gto]

On Monday, May 27, 2013 7:13:55 PM UTC+2, dnewman wrote:

On 27 May 2013 , at 9:21 AM, Damian Gto wrote:

> True, but printing on the whole build plate is more difficult on most
> resolution.
> But the true fact is that few will print stuff on the whole build plate.
> Most of the time they print stuff that is max 1/3 of the build plate.

The bot is marketed as having a working build volume roughly the size of the
entire build plate.  Therefore, it is expected to work full volume at the
marketed resolution.

True, but look at cars. Some can go 300km/h but can anybody drive at that speed?

No it take skill to be able to drive at that speed and you must also have a road to drive on.

I am sure you can print 0.1mm on the whole build plate if everything is right and you have that skill to make that.

I do not agree you need to rebuild the rep2x to be able to do this.

But I do not see the point in argue about this. The statment on this tread was that you could NOT print at 0.1mm on a rep 2x and that is wrong. you can...

[TaErog]

I took the plunge after I kept kitting RepG bugs and hating the workflow of having to use more then one program . . IE use slic3r then repeater to look at the gcode (text/graphical) then GPX to dump it to the SD.

I consider it a bit of a kickstarter since the $$ is funding rather rapid development and they really are adding features and support asked for by users. (though I would wait on a full review till next month since they are having another big update that impacts makerbot quite allot.)

 

I just finished Dyeing a bunch of my natural ABS and white PLA today . . came out rather well :)

[Jetguy]

If you guys can print so easily with the 2X, why did you not help your
fellow 2X owner who was having trouble?
http://groups.google.com/group/makerbot/browse_thread/thread/bcd4d3ecb5464e10

Quit worrying about what I think or say and move on and help your
fellow owners. SHOUTING you can print at up to 0.05mm layer heights
repeatedly doesn't help anyone but does show you have a problem with
me.

[TaErog]

Well I never said .05mm and also said only do .1mm rarely as more of a practical matter.

Also, my profiles are only slightly tweaked from default (probably more to accommodate differences in hardware per unit)

AND I am not using RepG!  So . . . . ?

 

I stopped using RepG for all the bugs that kept messing up prints.  But when I did the WORST thing I did was to DL whpthomas's Rep2 and others profiles .  I am sure they work fine on there Rep2 or Rep1's but they where much worse then default on my system so unusable . . one reason I think sharing profiles may not be the best thing to do. Better to troubleshoot and fix the problems or setting on your printer.

Frankly I never thought it too to much time to get a working profile - a bit longer to fine tune . .

Also I agreed with your original post that .1mm is a goal not a forgone conclusion . . but still also not too hard to attain.

 

So, what problems are you having? First layer problems? try a raft until you get the temp and flow rate worked out.

[Dan Newman]

>
> I stopped using RepG for all the bugs that kept messing up prints. But
> when I did the WORST thing I did was to DL whpthomas's Rep2 and others
> profiles . I am sure they work fine on there Rep2 or Rep1's but they where
> much worse then default on my system so unusable . . one reason I think
> sharing profiles may not be the best thing to do.

Those profiles from whpthomas are for PLA on a Rep 2. Sharing profiles for
the same machines + plastics actually works pretty well. You've even
implicitly agreed with that if you think about it for a moment,

> Also, my profiles are only slightly tweaked from default (probably more
> to accommodate differences in hardware per unit)

By "default" you *are* referring to shared profiles. Just happens to be that
the people sharing them is MBI. But they are, nonetheless, shared profiles.
Aljosa at MBI does a lot of work tuning them and then his and others results
become a shared profile which form the defaults.

However, people have to keep in mind that PLA behaves very differently than
ABS in some regards. And it also looks like the Rep 2X extruder behaves differently
than the Rep 2 extruder. That's another significant difference. So, expecting
Rep 2 PLA profiles to work on a 2X with ABS (or even PLA) is not a reasonable
expectation IMO. Obviously, you didn't realize that or if you did you were willing
to give them a go anyway figuring you could tweak them. But just because that
didn't work well for you doesn't disprove the concept of sharing profiles
for like machines + plastics.

Dan

[JohnD]

Can you post some high res photos of something you have printed at .03mm?  FYI, your analogy is flawed, as you imply that it takes some sort of skill to overcome a mechanical shortcoming - like your bed that is not level.

[Alchemate]

Had success with 0.1 ABS and limited success with 0.05 ABS - 

No mods to anything, except additional Spool for PLA.

Skeinforge

ABS - High setting

infill 10%

Shell 3

Layer 0.1

Rafts 'tick'

Supports 'tick'

Extruder 230C

Build plate 115C

Speed 80mm/s

Travel 150mm/s

I will upload some pics of the raft and parts shortly. My biggest point of note would be Tram, tram, tram, and some more. Using a length of double sided tape cover (just the cover no tape, natch) that is 0.1mm, you can really feel the friction level drawing a length of this through. Then adjusting on the fly to get the raft looking smushed not perfectly round.

ALSO: Pause the build and cut that damn anchor out of the way before it chews up the job.

0.05mm I have reduced feed speed 60 and travel 90. But it is really a matter of being precise with your tramming, testing and starting again until it is just so. Maybe there is a better way to do this step?

PLA issues were all about tramming, the out of the box settings were fine.

Cheers for all your uploads it's helpful! 

[Alchemate]

Sorry forgot to say, thats on the Rep 2X

[Alchemate]

No the most exciting parts out there but good for one starting out.

[TaErog]

Dan, Sure, kinda the point I was making.  the "default" profiles . . for Makerware / RepG normally give you a basically good print at .3-.2mm.  what must be done to get a great print or go farther is to do some fine tuning (unless you are lucky to have your printer within those generic tolerance parameters)

 

Now I guess I was not clear.  The 3rd party profiles I have used were finely tuned for the printer they where build for and it took longer to tweak them then a more default profile. (better worded I guess)

I DL'ed the PLA profiles (to print PLA) because I expected a closer fit then I got (The rep2 is different but close, they where made with PLA in mind and are known to work very well for some Rep2's)

I stated this because I think other people above may have done the same thing and actually may have set themselves back.  (or they make have worked - I expect kind of random here)

I also could have been running into other RepG bugs and when I moved to Slic3r and s3d creator I had a much better time of it  (note that I really was not having much trouble at all - it was just annoying)  So I can't really share my profiles as what people are looking for are Skeinforge profiles.

 

I think sharing the concepts and ball park figures are a good thing (allowing the person to use that as a basis and know that to change)  But, any profiles shared must be with a BIG disclaimer as there are allot of new people expecting to just use them and go. (also that sometimes it can just do more to confuse or start them off the mark further then before) 

With plastics again this is good, but must be done with high detail and acknowledgment of error bars (which I have not seen here)  as the quality, color, manufacturer, and even lot can make a difference. Thus partial data can't be relied on.

So rather then profiles, maybe pointers on settings and effects of those settings so people can tweak there own.

 

So I have a few generic ones. . :)  

- make sure your hardware calibrated! Any sloppiness in belts, leveling, etc is going to be magnified the higher the res you are going to go.

-SLOW the print down  (start slower then speed up after you get things working)

-Unless you are perfectly leveled Print with a raft!  I know people do not like Rafts but they can help allot in getting a test print going so you can tweak it.

- Know your plastic!  get the temp and about extruded dialed in at lower resolutions BEFORE going to a higher res.  (this goes even more so if you are using PLA as it is much more temperamental to  . . temp :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Brandon Schoonover]

Just thought I would add to to pool of knowledge here....

On our 2x at work we were able to print at .1mm for about 75hours of print time.  Now its a no go...

Actually we've spent a fair amount of time trying to fix the issue via alignment, settings, and cleaning plunger etc...  Btw we make similar machines for semiconductor manufacture, so we are more than capable in our ability to make repairs.

We only recently realized it was the .1mm layer thickness gating us from printing.  I changed it to .3mm as z resolution means nothing to the fixtures we make on our 2x.  And found it now prints with no issues again!  Whereas at .1mm it suddenly could not print small features of the first layer.

Im not sure what caused this performance degradation, but its something the fine non-supportive folks at makerbot should probably look into before spec'ing their product at .1mm.

Thanks for the advice on this forum.  You guys saved the day for me... :)

Brandon

On Friday, May 10, 2013 12:24:30 PM UTC-7, Jetguy wrote:

Folks, Im not trying to be the guy that bashes the 2X but it's CLEAR
we need to share some knowledge here. There are many, many changes
between the 2X and all previous bots. This means that no, you can't
take what Johny says works on a Replicator 2 (which is a PLA only bot)
and apply that to your 2X, which according to many folks does not work
well with PLA.
With that said, that leaves the 2X in ABS mostly printing.

No, you cannot print ABS at 0.1mm layer height. The reason is, ABS has
too high of a viscosity when melted. Some have asked about running at
higher temps to compensate. Higher temps do NOT make it any more
fluid. In fact, you should never run higher than 230C and even then,
that's too high.

Just understand, there are limits to the hardware and this is one of
them. ABS should not really be run below 0.2mm unless you really want
to go into experimental land. Increasing the heat is the sure way to
get burned ABS jammed in the nozzle and an air print. Then it's a real
pain to clear the nozzle

So fine, we cannot use ABS to print at 0.1 layer height because it's
too thick and then causes the extruder to skip. Again, if we have a
0.4 nozzle and smash that to 0.1mm layer, there is just no way for the
thick plastic to flow out.

So that leaves us with PLA if we want ultra low layer heights.

It's known that PLA does not extrude well in the 2X due the fact the
thermal barrier tube (where the filament goes into the hot end after
the pinch wheel and motor) and mounting changed reducing the amount of
heat conducted away. It's common sense that if one side of a metal
tube is at 230C and the other side is not being cooled well, in time,
the entire tube will reach nearly 230C. PLA melts as low as 170C and
gets soft at even cooler temps. So the PLA begins to melt and soften
nearly at the entrance to the extruder hot end. This means the force
of the filament being pushed downward is transfered to pressure along
the inner wall of the tube and not into forcing the plastic out the
nozzle. Since we are also restricting the layer height to less than
nozzle diameter, it's the same as pinching off the nozzle.In short, a
garanteed mess.


So what can you do?
You can keep messing with settings, but I doubt you will ever find you
can make up for the hardware via software.
That means you can design a fan mod, which blows a stream of cool air
between the heater block and nozzle and the mounting bar above it. You
must activily cool the tube. The other option is to replace both
thermal barrier tubes and the mounting bar with stock Replicator 1
parts. In doing so, you'll have to change the filament pusher as well,
or use washers to shim back the motor from the mounting block so the
filament path lines up with the hotend.


Sorry, I'm being honest and trying to point you to a helpful solution,
but also need to warn you that settings that work for Replicator 2s
don't work because the 2X is so different.

I would like for someone to prove this wrong, publish the settings or
mods you did to make it work. At the same time, the point of this post
is to explain to new users WHY they can't get what should still be
considered experimental in other bots too, to work on the brand new
2X.