DMX DIN mounted 230V LED dimming

[Michael]

Hello,

I'm still debating with my self about getting the DMX extension, or just using other dimming solutions.

I have been searching for a DIN mounted 230V LED dimmer, as an alternative to the Loxone dimmer.

For some uses it would be nice just to mount the 230V dimmer in the DIN enclosure, like the Loxone dimmer. I have been searching for a DMX alternative, but haven't found anything that seemed like a good buy.

So if you can recommend something, I would be grateful.

Sincerely

Michael

[Duncan]

there is a nice 3 channel din mount dmx 230v dimmer for around $40-45
it is rated for 1A, which is around 200-230w, and is trailing edge so plays nicely with led bulbs

http://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-dmx-dimmer-triac.html?spm=2114.01020208.0.333.4fWVIH&initiative_id=SB_20151011104730&site=glo&groupsort=1&SortType=price_asc&shipCountry=uk&SearchText=dmx+dimmer+triac

http://www.starwell.cc/index.asp is the manufacturer.

ive installed about 12 since i cant get njd 12 channel dmx dimmers any more

[Michael]

Hi Duncan,

That's not bad at all, it was exactly something like this I was looking for.
It says static power is lower than 3W, US that idling power?
Have you tried putting a power meter on it with all lamps of? 3W seems a bit high for standby power, I would have thought it would be below 1W. Power is expansive in Denmark (about 0.33 USD/kWh)

Sincerely
Michael

[Duncan]

it says less than 3w, but i havnt measured it, sorry
duncan

[Duncan]

2.6w measured yesterday

[TomM]

Michael,

If you're still wondering whether to buy the DMX extension or not - just do it.  I can confirm the reliability and flexibility of DMX makes it a really robust solution and the cost of dimmers is pretty low.  Don't forget you can also use dimmers and relays to control things like extractor fans, heating valves, electric underfloor heating, electronic locks - we even have mirror demisting pads connected to DMX so the mirror isn't all misty when we get out of the shower!

Loxone + DMX + 1-wire is pretty much all you need to get 90% of your house automated. the rest is probably just IP gateways.

On Friday, October 16, 2015 at 12:07:49 PM UTC+1, Duncan wrote:

2.6w measured yesterday

[Michael]

Hi Duncan,

Thanks for measuring it!

I have a follow up question, if you power cycle the dimmer, will it remember it's settings?

Like the DMX channel it is set to reading?

If they work fine with being powered totally down and up, this might be a scheme to save some of those expensive kWh :)

I could eg. use the 3ch dimming for outdoor lighting, and then just switch the dimming module off when all of the outdoor light is off anyways.

Sincerely

Michael

[Duncan]

yes it keeps its settings with the power off - it only has the dmx channel to set.

[Adrian]

@Duncan

Are there any disadvantages to this 3 channel DMX module in comparison of the Loxone Dimmer module?

The cost difference is huge when dimming a lot of lights. I'm only afraid of the lifetime of the chinese module in comparison of the loxone module. 

 What do you think about reliability? How long are you using it?

[Duncan]

i cant vouch for how long they will last, but ive just bought a few spares just in case as they are so cheap

the only real disadvantage is they arent via a retail chain from Europe so little comeback if they dont work, but ive had no failures from around 15 so far after about 6 months, and they have managed to dim down even a single gu10 led without problems.

duncan

[Andrew B]

I have embarked on a 24vdc LED lighting solution that uses DMX.  I have 2 x 32 channel DMX boards and a 1500W power supply that will drive all lighting in the house.  The 24v LED bulbs are a bit harder to find, but they exist (for marine and RV applications, mostly) and should be more robust than high voltage AC units since the on-board circuitry has to do a lot less and generates far less heat doing it.

[Duncan]

this is the typical problem though - you have saved money on loxone dimmers but in exchange have to source difficult to find and expensive 24v lights, high power 24v supplies etc - how many current 24v light models are available that can deliver the range of angles, brightness, white cct and cri that you can get from 240v dimmable bulbs?

i picked up some branded gu10 bulbs this week with smooth dimming, 25deg, 40deg cct of 2700k, 3000k or 4000k with cri >90 for £9 each to try, along with some others at cri95 - the rate of change in this particular area of retrofit leds is spectacular. If you buy expensive specialist bulbs or integrated downlighters, its very expensive to upgrade whilst the technology continues to advance so quickly and you are stuck with an inventory of adequate but not ideal lighting as things move ahead around you.

[Andrew Brownsword]

Yeah, finding them took work... but thanks to the Internet it is doable.  I kept my search requirements as simple as possible and now I have the three types I decided I needed (downlights, A19 E26 bulbs, and MR16s), at competitive prices.  And a single power supply that handles the whole house, and is cheap enough that having a spare on hand is easily feasible.  I'm not suggesting this is for everyone, but it is possible and has some advantages.  The rated lifetimes of these luminaries means they ought to last a very long time indeed.  The CRIs of the most important ones are >92.

Cheers,

   Andrew

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Loxone English" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/loxone-english/G1kb5HCZWSg/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to loxone-englis...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loxone-english/c7491384-f602-4128-9367-24115f495c27%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Torsten]

Hi Duncan,

very interesting posts, thanks for that.  As a test for my home automation (Loxone), I've bought the DMX triac dimmer you mentioned.  It works perfect for dimming a normal light bulbs.  However, when I tried to dim the following cheap led (12W), it didn't dim as desired.  Flickering and no dimming below 50%.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/new-Dimmable-Recessed-led-downlight-cob-6W-9W-12W-15W-dimming-LED-Spot-light-led-ceiling/1829023405.html 

What could be the reason?  Just because I tried to dim only one 12W led, or are these leds not compatible with this DMX triac dimmer?  What (cheap) led spots do you typically use?

Thanks a lot!

[Radek Dohnal]

Andrew, please can you send us a link, where (or what type) of PS and led lights you bought?
Im planning to do similar solution like you,but I find only 500W PS.

[Duncan]

Finding dimmable LEDs that work nicely can be a nightmare. I've certainly bought lots of samples that have ended up in the bin. It's one of the reasons that I've chosen to use gu10 bulbs and standard fittings - you can keep your fittings and just change bulbs as the technology improves and if you are buying from aliexpress you are bringing in light weight bulbs not heavy fittings.
The Dmx triac dimmer seems to work nicely with most gu10 240v bulbs that I have, but after a lot of trial and error I'm sticking to a single aliexpress make/supplier and a couple of uk sourced makes that I know work with both the triac dimmer and the njd 12 channel dimmer pack (which is leading edge but seems to work well with these bulbs anyway)

[Andrew Brownsword]

I was recommended to use a MeanWell power supply, and I selected the SPV-1500-24 for my application. The larger devices have a constant fan, so plan for a space where that won't be an issue.

For lights I'm primarily using downlights from Lauren Illumination (24v, ~92 CRI) and corn bulbs from 12vMonster (12-24v or 24-36v, the LumenCache certified ones seem to perform well). The MR16s I'm not entirely happy with so far -- working through some buzzing sound issues by employing capacitors -- so I wouldn't suggest my source until I've resolved that. Also, I only have a couple of months on my test units, so it's not a very long term test.

There were a couple of other types of bulbs I tried that didn't perform very well -- uneven dimming ramps, buzzing, and even cross channel effects in one case (although I suspect the latter was a ground loop type issue I have since fixed). I also haven't yet installed the whole house, so haven't verified that problems won't show up when doing that. I'm optimistic though that the issues that do, if any will be resolvable.

Cheers,
Andrew

> On Nov 13, 2015, at 10:48 PM, Radek Dohnal <dohna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Andrew, please can you send us a link, where (or what type) of PS and led lights you bought?
> Im planning to do similar solution like you,but I find only 500W PS.
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Loxone English" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/loxone-english/G1kb5HCZWSg/unsubscribe.
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to loxone-englis...@googlegroups.com.

> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loxone-english/e1be2b77-6f6c-4a64-82a6-740b11c60f15%40googlegroups.com.

[Torsten]

Great info.  Could you tell me who your single aliexpress make/supplier is?  Looking forward to give it a try with these lights...

Tx

[Duncan]

blaze lighting - http://www.aliexpress.com/store/905586

dimmable 7w gu10 in 3000k which are excellent for kitchens and utilities , and if you ask nicely they will make you some 2700k which i prefer for dining, corridors, bedrooms etc
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Top-Selling-SAA-CE-Dimmable-GU10-led-7W-COB-LED-Spotlight-bulbs-Replace-70W-halogen-lamp/905586_32330786826.html
the ones with the smooth alu shell and diffuser are the best, their others not so good - i tried the driverless samsung chipset ones and was disappointed.

they are incredibly bright, nice white colours and dim well. they do 60deg, 38deg and i think 25 degree if you ask

they also do an 8w 10deg which i havnt tried yet

[Simon Still]

Is there really any good reason to mess around with unknown Chinese LED bulbs?  There are a lot of them that are just plain dangerous - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08W2VIwBkhI - is the first that comes up but I've seen lots of others.  Even a lot of the stuff that's being imported sale in UK shops is distinctly iffy - http://luxreview.com/article/2015/02/cheap-leds-buyer-beware 

The cost of *known* quality, safe, bulbs that actually have a warranty that's worth something is higher than the chinese rubbish but given the life of the bulbs (that reputable bulbs might actually achieve) the upfront costs really are not that bad, especially if you're buying a load of binnable bulbs to find the ones that are any good (and you have to at least budget for import duty and VAT on your Chinese imports). 

http://luxreview.com/review/2015/08/led-gu10-lamps

https://www.any-lamp.co.uk/catalogsearch/result/?q=Search+entire+store+here...refled+es50 

[TomM]

Its a fair point.  I happily buy a lot of niche electronics which ultimately come directly from China and I have to say i'm generally OK with the quality and construction techniques.  I think i've said in other posts before, if you buy any gadget from China or anywhere else that is a non-household name brand then I would recommend you have a good poke around in it before using it in a production environment.  In my experience with the 130 LED GU10s in my house which were about £3 each (i.e. cheap) only 1 has blown and that happened almost immediately so clearly some issue there from the start.  The rest have performed faultlessly, my only issue is the dimming curves of them, but I think that's where the compromise is made.

Ultimately, my cheap chinese GU10s are infinitely safer than the bodged 12v downlighters that the previous owner of this house installed (and the rest of his bodging shite).

[Duncan]

it comes down to individual choice and some product research - does a costo chinese (Feit) dimmable gu 10 currently at £3 each qualify as cheap chinese junk?

its cheap, made in china, and mostly unheard of, but actually its an excellent retrofit size, 400 lumens, 36 degree, dims nicely, has a good 2.7k colour and is far brighter and a good match light-wise to a 50w gu10
i installed about 50 of these in a domestic property with wall mounted leading edge dimmers as an energy saving project and have to say they are very impressive for the money

i could have bought a philips light with a very similar spec, similar brightness, equally acceptable light quality etc but at £9 each

the philips claim a cri of 90, but i dont think there is a significant enough difference to justify the 3x price particularly in corridors in bedrooms - in those areas requiring task lighting such as kitchens, study etc, i will specify a cri 95 9w 500lumen 3000k chinese gu10 that i have sampled, which is extremely impressive, and a lot better value than a SORAA £30 gu10

[Simon Still]

Sure - I've just a become  bit more cautious about eBay/Alibaba direct imports for lighting.  Some of it's good but some of it is dangerous junk and for the limited number I'm buying it's not worth the time and money to find the good stuff.  If it's being sold in a shop in the UK it's likely to be fine safety wise but quality still varies.     

[Simon Still]

Duncan

Catching up on these DMX dimmers - do you now have them in regular use?  I've just installed my first of a few.  

The first channel is running 3x 5W Sylvania LED bulbs.  They didn't like being faded (behaved strangely on start up and shut down) but now have it set to step change the dimming and at 65% and 100% they're running fine.

The second channel is dimming an uplighter with a 130W halogen bulb in it - that seems to have a very noticable flicker which is rather annoying.  Is this faulty, the nature of the dimmer or something that a Loxone setting can address?

Simon

[Bartel Eerdekens]

Hi Simon,

After a few years, what is your experience now with these? Did one break? Were they reliable?

Do you have them still in use?

Thanks!

Op zondag 6 december 2015 20:01:16 UTC+1 schreef Simon Still:

[Duncan]

i have one project running a small number with no failures for around 6 months, and a larger project running 33 of these dimmer blocks for around 2 years - there have been about 10 failures early on, but none for the last year.

[Andrew B]

I am using 3 of these units connected in parallel using their load sharing & redundancy features:  

http://www.meanwell.com/webapp/product/search.aspx?prod=HRP-600

That gives me maximum output of 1800W, which is 50% more than I need at peak (all lights on full).  They have variable speed fans and are silent in my attic until most of the house is very bright (which means I won't be asleep anyhow!).  I've measured and tested and sure enough, they share the load nicely... and when one drops out the other two continue handling the load.  I even had a wiring glitch at one point and one carried the house with most lights on, which must have exceeded its rated capacity for a few minutes.... worked without trouble although the fan was sounding like a jet engine.

[Andrew B]

Oh, and one other note.... I put a bank of capacitors across the PSU to smooth out the weird power signal to a large number of PWM lights.  That helped a lot reduce vibration, buzzing and various other effects.

[Robbie]

On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 9:05:29 AM UTC+1, Bartel Eerdekens wrote:

After a few years, what is your experience now with these? Did one break? Were they reliable?

Do you have them still in use?

Thanks!

Op zondag 6 december 2015 20:01:16 UTC+1 schreef Simon Still:

Duncan

Catching up on these DMX dimmers - do you now have them in regular use?  I've just installed my first of a few.  

The first channel is running 3x 5W Sylvania LED bulbs.  They didn't like being faded (behaved strangely on start up and shut down) but now have it set to step change the dimming and at 65% and 100% they're running fine.

The second channel is dimming an uplighter with a 130W halogen bulb in it - that seems to have a very noticable flicker which is rather annoying.  Is this faulty, the nature of the dimmer or something that a Loxone setting can address?

Simon

Bartel,

I'm also using the cheap Chinese 3 Channel din DMX dimmer modules that Duncan recommended.

I've had five operating since April 2015, mainly driving between two and seven LED GU10 lamps on each channel, and a few remaining tungsten lamps (front room chandelier & linear filament picture lamps).

The only issue I had was one channel dying when one of the six chandelier 28W lamps blew (but I am quite heavily loading that channel). Luckily I purchased ten in total, so I just swapped it out for another.

Regarding LED lamps flickering: Our electricians fitted "Save Light" dimmable 7W LED GU10 lamps, but these would only dim to around half brightness (44% on the Loxone app) then go out, with occasional flashes if the Loxone was set to anything from 10-43%. I tried many alternative GU10 lamps until I found these Philips 4W Dim Tone lamps that will smoothly dim down to 1% on the Loxone app, with no flicker at all. I can highly recommend them (& I give more detail in the review I left). I've also since found that the 4.5W versions also dim just as perfectly on these din DMX modules.

[Skarsol]

Do be aware that these aren't Class 2 and so will face more stringent wiring requirements if you have to pass any sort of code inspection (if you're in the US).

[Andrew B]

Yes, any PSU >100W is not Class 2 and therefore must (essentially) following mains wiring rules.  In my setup I am using AWG14 (or thicker), and am heavily fused.

[Bartel Eerdekens]

Thx for the updates everyone! Definitely will order a few, knowing this now! (As those original Loxone dimmers are way too expensive!)

Op donderdag 11 mei 2017 17:36:48 UTC+2 schreef Robbie:

[Duncan]

another dimmer option is to use the Theben 8 channel knx dimmer - it takes up the space of 2 of the chinese dimmers but has 8 channels instead of 6

it can dim 200w per channel of led lighting and has programmable curves including leading and trailing edge,and its really easy to link into your loxone project

but it costs around £50 per channel in europe - still expensive but 1/2 the cost of loxone dimmers and far more compact.

https://www.theben.de/en/Products/Home-and-Building-control/KNX/Actuators/DM-8-2-T-KNX

[Simon Still]

On Wednesday, 10 May 2017 09:05:29 UTC+1, Bartel Eerdekens wrote:

After a few years, what is your experience now with these? Did one break? Were they reliable?

Do you have them still in use?

I only ended up fitting a single one which has been in daily use since November 15.  The halogen  uplighter which was flickering was changed for an uplighter with a single Sylvania GU10 bulb so the dimmer now runs 

c1- 3x 5w bulbs 

c2 - 1x 5w

c3 - 2 x 5w (set as a switch - on or off)>

On the single 5w bulb circuit, which i use dimmed, i get some flashing or changes in brightness.  I think it is that the load is too small.   

With the 3 bulb circuit this doesn’t happen

Yesterday I came home after a few days away and the dimmer seemed to have failed.  It still felt warm to the touch (so it was getting power and the circuits were doing something) but the display was blank.  

I replaced it with my spare today and found that the single bulb had failed.  Lacking any other dimmable GU10 Leds i've put a halogen GU10 in the fitting for now.  Which of course flickers (as did the old 130w halogen uplighter).

Regretting using even one of these.  They really seem pretty much useless - high failure rate.  Problematic with low (LED) loads.  Flicker with Halogen.

is there a straight replacement that's high quality?  anything other than the same DIN format would be a real pain now given where it's installed. 

[Clegger]

 

Regretting using even one of these.  They really seem pretty much useless - high failure rate.  Problematic with low (LED) loads.  Flicker with Halogen.

is there a straight replacement that's high quality?  anything other than the same DIN format would be a real pain now given where it's installed. 

I'd like to know this too.    

We installed 10 of these dimmers about 18 months ago, mostly driving Photonstar LED downlights via decent quality drivers.  Of the 10, 3 failed within a year. Of those, 2 took their time going out - they had problems after we had a power cut, and would do things like randomly turn on and off at high speed.  In the end they all died.  Some of our proposed lighting circuits weren't in operation at the time, so I was able to re-jig things so we still had light.

I recently ordered another 5, and replaced the 3 that had failed.  Within 2 weeks, one of the replacements had failed :-/

I also find their low-power dimming a little unpredictable.  We seem to have random fluctuations in brightness at anything below about 50%, but only in some rooms.  I'm also disappointed at how bright the rooms are on minimum brightness, but that could well be a function of the drivers and LEDs used too.  

For me, these dimmers are a false economy.  If I were doing this again, I'd stump up the extra funds for a better solution. 

[Clegger]

On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 9:29:29 AM UTC+1, Clegger wrote:

 

Regretting using even one of these.  They really seem pretty much useless - high failure rate.  Problematic with low (LED) loads.  Flicker with Halogen.

is there a straight replacement that's high quality?  anything other than the same DIN format would be a real pain now given where it's installed. 

I'd like to know this too.    

Having heard that the power supplies are the weak point with these, I was also considering how feasible it would be to bypass the power supplies and provide them with DC from an external supply.  Too much on at the moment to look further into this...

[Simon Still]

On Wednesday, 17 May 2017 09:29:29 UTC+1, Clegger wrote: 

 mostly driving Photonstar LED downlights via decent quality drivers.  

Hmm.  This seems a really odd decision to have made - they're not cheap lights and you they supply drivers that are designed to dim. 

 

Of the 10, In the end they all died.  

 

I also find their low-power dimming a little unpredictable.  We seem to have random fluctuations in brightness at anything below about 50%, but only in some rooms.  I'm also disappointed at how bright the rooms are on minimum brightness, but that could well be a function of the drivers and LEDs used too.  

I'm using 1-10v analogue dimming from Loxone to dim all my Photonstar LED fittings.  It was a bit of a tight balance between the number of analogue outputs from Loxone and the number of circuits I wanted/needed in the house but it worked out.  The analogue dimmers needed to be set to stepped 10/20/30% brightness rather than 1-100 dimming and *mostly* dim down to 10% reliably - I rejected a few drivers that were unreliable below 20% and PhotonStar replaced those under warranty.  

 

For me, these dimmers are a false economy.  If I were doing this again, I'd stump up the extra funds for a better solution. 

Absolutely.  I've just ordered another spare but I'm now in a position where I've paid for 3 of them /£100/£30 a circuit after 18 months which is no longer low cost.   

[Simon Still]

On Wednesday, 17 May 2017 10:00:34 UTC+1, Clegger wrote:

Having heard that the power supplies are the weak point with these, I was also considering how feasible it would be to bypass the power supplies and provide them with DC from an external supply.  Too much on at the moment to look further into this...

Where did you pick that up from? 

I'll open up my duff one and see what it looks like inside.  

I think they're actually just poor.  I can understand them being a bit flaky with LEDs but the fact that both of mine seem to put a noticable flicker into a halogen makes me thing they're just crap.

I don't understand Duncan's enthusiasm for them 

[Duncan]

its not so much enthusiasm as pragmastic due to the lack of dmx alternative (at 240v anyway)

my lighting strategy was always to use gu10 fittings with retrofit dimmable bulbs to be able to take advantage of led improvements over time, without having to replace a load of inbuilt led/mains units, and to be able to change K, CRI and beam angle easily once the house had been lived in for a while

given that i have every light in and out of the house dimmable (including external wall lights, drive lights etc) as part of the lighting scheme, then loxone dimmers were not a viable option when it comes to 96 channels of mains dimming (that would be £10k for dimmers), and 24v downlights where too few options to choose and too expensive to replace as leds get better over time. lots of channels with few bulbs per channel was and is always going to be a challenge for mains dimmable bulbs where they work much better with a higher load.

the njd dmx dimmers are rather nicely made but leading edge, and made lots of leds buzz, hence left with the cheap chinese 3 channel stuff.
i bought quite a few different led gu10 bulbs to try for compatability before i started with the njd and then dmx dimemrs, and apart from a few failures the chinese stuff has been good value for money in terms of delivering mood lighting at a whole house level for very little expense.

i have replaced some with the theben 8 channel dimmer, partly just as an experiment in knx and to see if they were better - answer is the single unit is £500 for 8 channels and has been reliable so far, but thats a trial of 1 so hardly conclusive, and the dimming performance is not far different from the cheap chinese stuff except goes slightly dimmer before they start to flicker, but not worth paying £50 per channel compared to £10

it was probably me saying that the internal dc power supply was weak - all mine that have failed have lost the internal psu. at the cost i paid, i havnt bothered trying to externally power them or fix them, just throw away and replace. i think ive replaced 6 of my 32 units in nearly 2 years, but mostly in the first 6 months.

[jackal077]

Hi Duncan,
What led bulbs are you using? Im using philips and sylvania or megaman. I can check the exact model tomorrow and can dim them with the Theben dimmer to really low setting like 2- 3% without any flicker.

[Duncan]

i have the philips 5.4w cri 90 bulbs on the chinese dmx dimmers which dim down to around 30%, and costo feit (costco) 2.7k on the theben (its used in bedroom areas) - the costco dont go that low, perhaps around 15% but that may be the bulb rather than the theben

[Simon Still]

On Thursday, 18 May 2017 00:37:04 UTC+1, jackal077 wrote:

Hi Duncan,
What led bulbs are you using? Im using philips and sylvania or megaman. I can check the exact model tomorrow and can dim them with the Theben dimmer to really low setting like 2- 3% without any flicker.

I was using Sylvania RefLED+ Of the 10 I bought I one died within a few weeks and a second went - seemingly at the same time as the dimmer failed (could that be connected?).  Bought from any-lamp.co.uk who are not actually in the UK.  However, they have a 3 year warranty on Phillips and Sylvania and will send out replacements with minimal fuss.

I've just bought a couple of Phillips Master LED's which someone here said dim better to try in my single bulb location.

 

[Simon Still]

On Wednesday, 17 May 2017 19:56:04 UTC+1, Duncan wrote:

its not so much enthusiasm as pragmastic due to the lack of dmx alternative (at 240v anyway)

my lighting strategy was always to use gu10 fittings with retrofit dimmable bulbs to be able to take advantage of led improvements over time, without having to replace a load of inbuilt led/mains units, and to be able to change K, CRI and beam angle easily once the house had been lived in for a while

Sure.  Nice to have that flexibility.  I think all the big gains in LEDs have been achieved - power is now low enough that additional savings are really minor.  You can now buy lights that are indistinguishable from Halogen - hard to see why you would now need to replace in their lifetime. 

CRI and colour temperature are no longer a problem but being able to change easily remains an advantage.

I went for 2700k everywhere and I'd probably take 3000 or so for kitchen and bathroom if i was speccing again.  

However, my PhotonStar lights with analogue dimming have been 100% reliable whereas even my expensive, supposedly top quality, Sylvania GU10's have had a 20% failure rate.  

...., then loxone dimmers were not a viable option ....24v downlights where too few options to choose

Annoying that this still all remains an issue another few years down the line.  I'd probably do the same again (1-10v or DMX dimmed constant current lights) but you still end up with a smattering of GU10s where you want pendant lights or other 'non-recessed-downlight' fittings.  

[Duncan]

i had some very specific requirements such as some lights with 10-12degree angle, which could only really be achieved with gu10 in an affordable way

led lighting still has a way to go in terms of quality though - even lights with a cri >90 often have a R9 (red colour)  of a negative value compared to a halogen of 100, so skin and reds can look washed out

if you compare to a led such as the soraa with a r9 of around 90, you can see the difference, but currently im not happy to replace more than 200 leds at £25 each. wait a few years and they will be £8-10 per bulb.

[njamessimpson]

Duncan - you mentioned a good 95 crib led bulb with DMX 3 channel. What's your source? I'd prefer higher CRI for lounge etc.

Thanks

[Duncan]

these have a good cri, but i dont know the r9
https://well-lit.co.uk/browse/fitting/gu10/

for a cri of 95 and r9 of 95 then the soraa vivid 3 is the model to go for at around £25 each

[Robbie]

As I mentioned before, I've found the Philips Dim Tone GU10 lamps (4W & 4.5W) give perfect flicker free dimming down to zero brightness with the Chinese 3 Channel din DMX dimmer modules. (Even with only a single 4W lamp.)

They also dim with a rather nice colour temperature change from 2700K down to 2200K and come in 25º or 40º beam angles. Whilst Philips only state a CRI of 80, I've found colour rendition to be as good as any Halogen GU10. Not bad for just under a tenner each.

[Simon Still]

I'm assuming most of us are using these with GU10 240v LED bulbs. What sort of failure rate are you getting? I've now had 3 (of 10 installed) of my Sylvania RefLed+ ES50 V2 bulbs die within 18 months.

The failures have all been on circuits that are dimmed rather than on/off (though also the most heavily used bulbs so could be coincidence).

Not impressive regardless - given they have a claimed life of 25 years/25k hours something is substandard.

(As an aside they were ordered from any-lamp.co.uk who, despite claiming to be a UK company on their website and having a UK phone number actually appear to be in the Netherlands and ship from there. However, they have a 3 year warranty on these bulbs and are replacing them without any hassle or requirement to ship the duff bulb back to them so far)

[Duncan]

Plenty of my Philips 5.4w dimmable have blown in a year. None of the Costco feit dimmables have failed and I've over 100 of those.

[Jeff Sweetman]

No failures with a whole house full of photonstar downlights.

On the other hand, I'm up to a 5 of 15 failure rate on the dimmers themselves. I have zero confidence in them and will shortly be looking for an entirely new dimming solution.

On 1 Jul 2017 12:18 pm, "Duncan" <joanne...@gmail.com> wrote:

Plenty of my Philips 5.4w dimmable have blown in a year. None of the Costco feit dimmables have failed and I've over 100 of those.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Loxone English" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/loxone-english/G1kb5HCZWSg/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to loxone-english+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loxone-english/734d7b9a-6122-4992-8b01-97f2e8894757%40googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Simon Still]

On Saturday, 1 July 2017 16:48:17 UTC+1, Clegger wrote:

No failures with a whole house full of photonstar downlights.

On the other hand, I'm up to a 5 of 15 failure rate on the dimmers themselves. I have zero confidence in them and will shortly be looking for an entirely new dimming solution.

That's interesting - what dimmers are you using?  As someone with a house full of PhotonStar downlights I've had no failures yet in nearly 2 years.  A few were replaced because they didn't dim properly at 10% so a the lights in a room wouldn't all go off/on at the same time.    

[Clegger]

The same Chinese DMX 3-channel dimmers being discussed earlier in the thread. I've had two batches, from different suppliers, and the failures continue.

[Simon Still]

I didn't realise PhotonStar made 240v lights - though they were all constant current LED lamp units with separate drivers (choice was Dali or 1-10v dimming when I got mine.  I think someone recently posted a link to a  constant current driver with DMX that looked good quality.  

[RSin]

How are people getting on with the 'chinese triac'? Any more failures? Any good reports too.

As an alternative has anyone given these a go? £5 per channel 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AC100-240V-288W-2-Channel-Triac-DMX-Dimmer-Dual-channel-output-Silicon-DMX-512-controller/32819774474.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.QpRe8j

Cheers

[Jeff S]

I've had an appalling experience with those 3 channel dimmers.

I've now bought 15 of these: 10 from one supplier and 5 from another when 3 failed in a matter of months. To date, 8 have failed in one way or another. 

Some have literally lasted weeks. 

Some are still going strong two years later.

There seems to be no rhyme or reason to any of it - even their failure modes are all over the place.

I've just this week received an Eldoled constant current driver to test it out as a possible replacement. If it works, I'll be tossing all the Chinese ones.

Jeff

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Loxone English" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/loxone-english/G1kb5HCZWSg/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to loxone-english+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loxone-english/48c97b10-ce8a-43ad-9e86-f058d333a5d1%40googlegroups.com.

[Duncan]

i bought a couple of these to try - they sort of work at a basic level, but the dimming/fading is jittery and you get much more flicker with these than the the dmx302 dimmers - which when they work are actually quite good.

if you set the fade rate to instant then they are just about usable, but i get a lot more flicker in the 30-50% fade range than with the dmx302 which seem absolutely fine.

theres also a 2 channel din rail mount version which is identical apart from its mount/case and its just as awful as a dmx dimmer

like others, i have many that are working several year on, and many that died an early death. They seem prone to damage when there is an electricity outage - my theory is that spikes and surges kill the low voltage module inside that powers the electronics.

[Jeff S]

 > They seem prone to damage when there is an electricity outage - my theory is that spikes and surges kill the low voltage module inside that powers the electronics.

Same experience here. Problems often seem to arise after powering cycling, whether intentionally or via a power cut. It often seems to affect the signalling side - some of the ones that don't work via DMX control can still be manually controlled via the switches at the unit. 

One channel of one dimmer is stuck permanently on full power with a high speed (50Hz?) flicker. Another doesn't provide any light via DMX or manually, but also can't be turned off using the button on the front.

I can't say I've been blown away with the stability of the dimming, even of the ones that have worked well. The only one that's been rock solid is the one that drive our kitchen lights. Interestingly, that's by far the highest power circuit being driven.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Loxone English" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/loxone-english/G1kb5HCZWSg/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to loxone-english+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loxone-english/39c6d1a9-4bae-4597-872d-28fbe972f8dc%40googlegroups.com.

[RSin]

So what you're saying is that it isn't a batch issue.

If its the internals getting knocked out by a spike is there a way to protect them e.g. fuse or power supply smoothing. I know this will add cost but when most people end up with £200-500 of these little buggers it may be worth it to get some robustness - any ideas?

Clegger:

 I've just this week received an Eldoled constant current driver to test it out as a possible replacement.

What Eldo did you buy? I didn't realise they did a 240v, I thought they were all ELV. Quite like them since visiting their stand at a lighting show, although their email support is very poor. Not even had a response!

Cheers

Richard.

[Jeff S]

> If its the internals getting knocked out by a spike is there a way to protect them e.g. fuse or power supply smoothing. I know this will add cost but when most people end up with £200-500 of these little buggers it may be worth it to get some robustness - any ideas?

Even when they work, I found some channels to have randomly unstable outputs. Not exactly flickering, but occasional slight step changes in light output. It's worse at lower power outputs. I guess I just don't have any confidence in them. The cost of replacing them is frustrating, but not the end of the world.

The Eldoled dimmer is a constant current device that takes a 240V power supply (see the first three on this page: https://www.eldoled.com/led-drivers/powerdrive/). With the programming tool, you can adjust the output of each channel in 10mA steps from 200mA to 1050mA. They seem well made from what I can see.

If this dimmer works, the plan is to remove the drivers from each downlight, and rewire all downlights in each room for serial constant current drive by a single channel. I'm a bit concerned about electrical noise, but that's the purpose of testing.

Jeff

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Loxone English" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/loxone-english/G1kb5HCZWSg/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to loxone-english+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loxone-english/1a32e58b-08db-4921-a6de-07f244e068d4%40googlegroups.com.

[njamessimpson]

Anyone found a decent 240V alternative to the Chinese dimmers? Eldoled great...for 12/24v lighting. Not 240V though...

Chinese dimmers also have an issue with always being “live”. Need to ensure you’re careful doing anything with these circuits.

[RSin]

what would stop you using a theatre lighting module? e.g.

http://www.terralec.co.uk/dimmers__switches/multiform_multidim_dimmer_switch_pack/26041_p.html

I know its really OTT on power so would it be inefficient? Or not provide the right 'edge' for leds? Anything else? I know its twice the price per channel as the Chinese dimmer but still a quarter of the loxone one.

also can you elaborate on the "always live" and "being careful" please. What's the issue?

[njamessimpson]

The issue is that you might have the light switched “off” via Loxone but the circuit is still live. Ie. You can get an electric shock. Something my electrician had found on several occasions. I believe it’s to do with whether you dim on live or neutral circuit.

[Duncan]

theres a new version of the dmx302 chinese dimmer out so ive bought a couple to try

its black, has a metal case rather than plastic and has much chunkier screw terminals

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DMX302-High-voltage-DMX-triac-led-dimmer-brightness-controller-AC90V-240V-50Hz-60Hz-Output-3channels-1A/32832363334.html

whether it turns out to be any more reliable only time will tell,,,,

[Jeff S]

I saw that last week and assumed it was just a repackaged version of the original. Interesting it's metal - that wasn't obvious from the pics.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Loxone English" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/loxone-english/G1kb5HCZWSg/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to loxone-english+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loxone-english/123d22d5-1644-4395-9ee5-79778891d6b4%40googlegroups.com.

[RSin]

ahh so we may be talking about an updated version. I presume that these will be used all over the place in hotels etc in china and if they are as bad as some say then a lot of people will be demanding an update - real same there's no traceability through to the guys that actually designed the thing originally.

anyway, I bought one a few weeks back to have a play and it just so happens that I think i've got one of these metal casing models so taken some pics, can you have a look and see if anything is massively different - has the fuse always been there?

on PCB is printed

"DMX302-B-V3.4"

&

"2017-06-28"

would be interesting to see if ones that are working a few years on are a different version to those that failed.

[RSin]

Just noticed in the photo of the lower board the text

"2017-06-20

DM302-A-V3.3"

[Duncan]

ive got a recently deceased white one at home - ill open it up to compare when im back

[Duncan]

the old white model is a completely different design - it has 3 boards stacked

1) top board marked LN-CONT1601-screen v1.0 has the leds on only and is mounted on the 2nd middle size board with the front buttons linked by a flex cable
2) middle boards is marked DMX302-A-V2.0 2015.12.31
3)biggest bottom board marked DMX302-B-V2.0 containing the 6 mosfets and the 12v psu

unfortunately the new model seems to contain the same 12v psu module which i think may be its weakest point

each design has an A board and a B board and it basically seems to have gone from version 2.0 to version 3.x internally

looks like theyve added an internal fuse and moved some circuitry from the bottom power board to the upperboard and put the leds and buttons directly onto the upper board

[RSin]

cheers duncan...right, guess I'd better take one for the team....tell me how and when it broke in detail and I'll try and break the V3 one i've got. Hopefully it won't or if it does its just a case of replacing the internal fuse. Feel free to suggest a suitable test strategy :)  I guess the 1st thing you guys mentioned was power spikes so if I wire it up to a plug and whack it on and off 10-20 times will this do it (based on your experience?)

[Duncan]

i think the biggest frustration is that they seem to fail totally randomly - except perchaps a higher incidence where you have had a power glitch or cut the power.

the last one that failed kept its led with the correct channel, would dim ch1 properly but ch2 and 3 were permanently off - previously most of my failures the led display has gone black and the thing not worked at all.

as you suggest, i would power cycle repeatedly whilst the output is set on as an initial test

[Jeff S]

Interesting.

Most of my faults have involved one or more channels going permanently on. Only one or two have involved the display going dark. 

I should add an apology - while working on these yesterday, I discovered that at least two of the "failures" involving flickering light were actually due to a DMX signal wire breaking inside a ferrule near the end of the chain. I think that leaves me at 5 failures out of 15.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Loxone English" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/loxone-english/G1kb5HCZWSg/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to loxone-english+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loxone-english/9a4d53fb-5102-476d-9c50-365e8da5c6de%40googlegroups.com.

[Robbie]

Maybe I've been lucky. I've only had one of five fail in two & a half years.

 
On Monday, October 9, 2017 at 8:58:39 PM UTC+1, Duncan wrote:

looks like theyve added an internal fuse 

Mine died completely after a (tungsten) lamp on the chandelier blew. It failed completely dead & (whilst I just swapped it out for a spare) I was hoping there would be an internal fuse that I could just replace. 

The new version looks interesting, but to use as a drop in replacement, it's unfortunate that the digital display would be upside-down (without rewiring the existing cabinet)..

[Simon Still]

So luckily I only installed one of these.  It's failed once (I think with a channel permanently on).  

Didn't realise the outputs were always live - worth knowing.

Also have  "unstable outputs. Not exactly flickering, but occasional slight step changes in light output".  I only get this on the circuit that has a single 5.5w LED GU10 on it - the other circuits have more bulbs and i've never noticed the step change.

I've also had a high failure rate of the Sylvania GU10s I've been using.  I bought them from any-lamp who have a 3 year warranty but they've started asking questions about my luminaies which makes me think my failure rate is not typical.   

[Duncan]

ive got a load of philips 4.5w cri 88 bulbs which have a much higher failure rate than stated - ive replaced approx 10% so far -  i think its just the gu10 retrofit design which lets the electronics get very hot due to the constraints of the form factor.

even my knx dimmers struggle to cope with a single gu10 led load so thats a pretty tough  test and perhaps a little unfair criticism of the dmx302

[Andrew Brownsword]

I’ve killed a couple of channels on the controller I use.  FETs fail to on when you draw too much current through them and I discovered the hard way that the current drawn per unit time by some devices increases as pulses shorten... so even though you think you can draw say 5A  and your device is technically 3A, it just ain’t so.  Even worse, those pulses are faster than a fuse will react in some cases.  So I always keep my calculated draw under 5A on my 8A channels.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Loxone English" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/loxone-english/G1kb5HCZWSg/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to loxone-englis...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loxone-english/1ed90f10-66e9-41de-9d54-5d87d2dff471%40googlegroups.com.

[Robbie]

After proudly proclaiming that I've only had one DMX 302 dimmer fail, another of mine appears to be on the way out:-

All the lights connected to it went out, along with the display. 5-10 minutes later they came back on, then later went out again, and so on.

I've switched it off for now, but I'm wondering if it could be some kind of thermal shutdown. However each channel only has two Philips 4W DimTone GU10's on it.

Maybe it's just about to die, but I'm hoping that catching it now might be an opportunity to find out what is happening.

Has anyone else seen this behaviour (intermittent operation) rather than simply dying?

[Robbie]

I switched my "faulty" DMX 302 Dimmer back on Friday evening, and have had it running ever since without this occasional shutting down.

Has anyone else seen this kind of (intermittent operation) behaviour on theirs, or have any ideas on what is happening, or what to check internally (I have electronics knowledge)?

On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 3:09:51 PM UTC, Robbie wrote:

...another of mine appears to be on the way out:-

[John Verdicchio]

Talking of 240V DMX dimmers - I've just installed my second NJD NJ942 (12 x 4A wall-mounted dimmer from Maplins in the UK). The first one I had was initially installed under the v8 Loxone software. This has worked flawlessly since I installed it. Works with LEDs (dimmable and non-dimmable ones just don't try dimming the non-dimmable ones).

I took the v9 update when it came out and have left most of the DMX actuator setting as configured. I have added a couple of rooms to my Loxone system and have run out of channels on my NJD. So, I've brought and installed a second NJD unit. As a note-to-all, the actuator type for the DMX property must be set to smart rather than standard. I say this because if you have it set as standard then the lights just flicker and 100% brightness doesn't seem to work at all. I had actually set the actuator property to standard on the new unit as the 12V/24V 24 channel DMX units I have don't work if set as smart.

So as a question-to-all, does anything know what the actual difference between smart and standard is and are there any guides as to which one to pick?

[Duncan]

the njd dimmers are leading edge dimmers, so may not play nicely with some dimmable leds (flicker, buzzing etc), although they are so robust that dimming a capacitive led load with leading edge probably wont break it.

the difference between loxones smart and standard dimmer cant affect the characteristics of the dmx dimmer itself, but does have an impact on the transition speed of the dimming, which may show up as flicker.

im guessing now, but i think setting an actuator to smart offloads the speed of transition/fade rate, starting and ending brightness to the dmx extension dynamically, where as the standard dimmer type the fade rate speed is sent to the dmx extension at programming time and is therefore fixed.

[njamessimpson]

Just for information/awareness re the Chinese 240v DMX dimmers referenced in his thread. They are permanently live even when “off”. There may be a solution someone is aware of. However, just fitted a very high quality/sensitive bulb which is now on a very light dim when off (presumably reflecting the amps coming through from the dimmer). Just be aware that all power should be off when doing anything electrical with these. Don’t rely on being “off” in Loxone.

There are pluses re price etc. But downsides too! Yet to find a reasonable DMX alternative.

[RSin]

Hopefully this may be an alternative.

I bought one of these

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-DMX512-AC-Triac-Dimmer-S1-DR-Input-100-240VAC-Output-2-x-1-2A-100/32826234578.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.vx0VdY

2 channel DMX = £7 per channel

States CE marked but not sure I trust anything on Aliexpress to be more than a label rather than the actual testing involved.

I set up a pulse generator to go through a cycle of scenes:

100% on >> 50% dimmed >> OFF >> repeat 

each state was for 4 seconds.

I ran for 4 hours

that gives 4*3600/(4+4+4)=1200 cycles.

Assuming 2 cycles per day, 1 in morning, 1 in evening gives 600 days worth.

No failure yet.

Caveats:

Only 1 LED dimmable downlight - not full load e.g. 8 spots

Only 1 channel being used

Can you guys that may know more give constructive criticism of this approach and I'll try different things.

I'll try and do the same with the v3 3-channel that I have (the one with the inbuilt fuse). But as you all have varied results it may just be that they have poor quality control. The fact that v3 has a fuse shows they know of the problem and have tried to fix it so they must have had the same response from specifiers in China. If they don't fix it, they don't sell any. Only problem I can see is that even if the v3 is better you don't know which batch a particular seller has.

[Duncan]

the only problem i found with these devices is the dimming seemed to be jerky rather than smooth

[RSin]

Just done the same 4 hour test with 3-channel v3 and it seems OK.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DMX302-DMX-triac-dimmer-led-brightness-controller-AC90-240V-50Hz-60Hz-high-voltage-3-channels-1A/32802931763.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.R6FkFf

[Stefan L]

Hello,

So are the most recent versions 3.3 or 3.4 reliable now?

From recent posts that appear to be the case.

Thank you for testing and sharing

On Sunday, October 11, 2015 at 11:15:40 AM UTC+2, Michael wrote:

Hello,

I'm still debating with my self about getting the DMX extension, or just using other dimming solutions.

I have been searching for a DIN mounted 230V LED dimmer, as an alternative to the Loxone dimmer.

For some uses it would be nice just to mount the 230V dimmer in the DIN enclosure, like the Loxone dimmer. I have been searching for a DMX alternative, but haven't found anything that seemed like a good buy.

So if you can recommend something, I would be grateful.

Sincerely

Michael

[RSinn]

I still don't have my house finished so can't comment on the reliability in operation, only the testing I have done above.

The main problem is the lack of spec e.g. British Standard and CE marking that may be an issue for electricians signing it off.

[Duncan]

ive swapped out 4 of the white ones for black ones, one of which failed after a week and was replaced, but all 4 have now been operational for around 8 months now without problems.

having said that, i have 8-10 white ones been running well for 2 years, so it still seems random

[Aaron]

I installed a couple of the new style black dimmers this week and after much head scratching as to why they wouldnt respond or dim, remembered the post about these dimmers always being 'Live'. It appears they DIM the neutral rather than load.

In consideration of keeping my panel tidy can I therefore common the live like I would the neutral with a loxone relay?

So far, so good with these dimmers and I'm impressed with the results for the relative value

thanks

[David Wallis]

Just in reference to this dimming the neutral comment,  I bought some of these dimmers to test S1-DR AC Triac DMX Dimmer.

I've disassembled and checked and they do not dim the neutral as can be seen from the commoning of the terminals on the pcb.

Has anyone tested these? I've tried the D4 DMX512 and RDM Decoder (attached and this works ok.. so far - aside from my psu not having the required bollocks!

[Duncan]

ive tested them - the dimming was quite jerky compared to the dmx302, and they didnt go as dim with the gu10 dimmable lamps i was testing with

[Aaron]

Just for completeness for anyone reviewing the thread in future, my comment related to the black DMX 302 dimmers as found here (not the white 4 channel):

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DMX302-led-DMX-triac-dimmer-brightness-controller-AC90V-240V-Output-3channels-1A-CH-High-voltage-led/32822841266.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3cc54c4dhWWtff

I have commoned the live and control the neutrals individually which so far is working well.

I have 8 of the dimmers, 7 live in my configuration and one spare. The spare I did have in operation but it failed to retain its address after any power cycling.

I'll refrain from making any further comments on reliability so not to tempt fate!

[RSin]

Please can I get an update on bulbs that do/don't work well with the DMX302?

I'm just about to buy a load!

reading back through this these sound the top pick:

Soraa is very good CRI 95 and R9 - £20/bulb (have you got the model or code you have tried Duncan?)

Well-Lit.co.uk CRI 95 but a bit cheaper - £13/bulb

Philips Dim tone CRI 90 but £5/bulb

Have any of these (since recommending) failed a lot?

Any others to add to the list?

Any to add to the 'do not buy' list?

[Tom Bernaerd]

I tried a bunch from Yphix and a few no-name brands from Amazon. Eventually found these and I'm very happy with them:

https://www.budgetlight.be/nl/philips-ledspot-expertcolor-gu10-5-5w-927-36d-master-best-colour-rendering-very-warm-white-dimmable-replaces-50w

Color representation is very good, and they dim well. I do notice some very slight  flicker when fading sometimes but that may just be a config issue. Once at the correct power level they seem to correct themselves and work flicker free after one second. Haven't looked into it. 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Loxone English" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to loxone-englis...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loxone-english/03ba4a10-e7c4-4dd2-917f-142fafbc3231%40googlegroups.com.

[Duncan]

it seems that most bulbs play nicely with the dmx302 because its trailing edge

i see no point in wasting money or sorraa when others such as philips are catching up for 1/2 to 1/3 of the price

the philips dim down nicely to around 30% for non-dimtone, to around a few % for dimtone models

the newer philips expercolor are like the original philips (non-dimtone) but with a better cri than the original 88

i use costo Feit dimmable gu10 for bedrooms/corridors - around £10 for 4 2700k and dim to around 30% and generally play nicely with all sorts of dimmers.

the only significant problem is the long term reliability of the dmx302 dimmers. after 3yrs of use, most of mine have been replaced multiple times, and for the sake of long term relationships ive replaced almost all of mine with theben dm8-2 dimmers which are only slightly better than the dmx302 dimmers in terms of dimming lower, but are significantly more reliable.

[hidde....@gmail.com]

Duncan,

that's interesting. I'm also not too happy with the reliability of the DMX302 (especially the randomness in the failures). I'm thinking to switch to KNX instead, since that seems to be the only viable alternative from a density perspective (and comes out cheaper too), but mostly also from a flexibility perspective (way more supply in vendors and variations) compared to DMX. Just wondering how this switching to KNX would work in practical terms, do I need ETS for that? if so, can I do with the free version of ETS? What PSU have you used in combination with the Theben Dimmers? Also, the theben dimmers don't seem to need a NULL from the dimmer to every lamp, correct?

regards,

Hidde

Op maandag 17 december 2018 23:32:15 UTC+1 schreef Duncan:

[Duncan]

so for knx you need a knx power supply as well as the dimmers - this combines power and signal to the knx devices. you must use a proper knx power supply though

the theben dimmers are mains, so no other power supply other than the single knx data/30v supply

they are higher density than the dmx302 so you may need less space in your cabinet which really helps for the retrofit

but they work out around £50-55 per channel so a lot more than the dmx302, but much cheaper than using loxone dimmers

the theben dimmers have separate live and neutrals for each channel, but they can be commoned together at the dimmer with wire loops and then your lighting outputs brought back to a common neutral connector/ busbar if that makes installation easier. they dim the live not neutral which makes things regs compliant and easier.

ETS basic can only program one device at a time i think - the next level up gives you 20 devices per project and is around £80 for an online course and usb dongle

you can split a loxone project into single devices in ETS but its a little easier with the 20 items in 1 project so you can keep an eye on group addresses etc