Survey Fees Schedule...A Practical solution

[S. Anoop Kumar]

Dear Friends, 

The message from Mr. Surendra Nalluri is one of the best messages I have read after the release survey fees schedule by GIPSA.  The message is timely, highly mature, and clearly giving us a direction in dealing with the situation we are in.  Most, or rather almost, messages are highly critical of the revised survey fees schedule released by GIPSA.  Going through the covering letter of the revised survey fees schedule released by GIPSA, it is clear that it was decided purely on one side basis and there was no involvement of of our IIISLA in the decision making.  .  And let's not hide the fact that even our IIISLA CC members were taken by surprise as to the release of the revised survey fee schedule where they were not consulted, and not even informed.  Here we had the IIISLA CC members and also the general members all at one level without any difference.  Feel bad, but it's the fact. 

I fully support the views expressed by Mr. SB Nalluri and we should just go for it.   Mr. P. Pandiyan and also Mr. DCS Raju have also shared their views and their views are in agreement with the views of Mr. SB Nalluri.  Let us get to understand few basic fundamentals so that we get to have some clarity on the proposal made by Mr. SB Nalluri.

1. IIISLA is a professional body promoted by IRDA and GOI and is also now a recognised body as per the Insurance Amendment Act 2015.  Hence, we enjoy a legal status as per the law. 

2. IIISLA AOA empowers our central council to fix our own survey fees schedule as per the section 52 (2) (xvi) which reads as - fixing the schedule of minimum professional fees to be charged by the members associated with the nature of work from time to time.It is clear

3. It is clear that IIISLA CC had the powers to decide on the survey fees but they have always shied away from the responsibility.  We now have an opportunity on hand which we should convert to our best advantage instead of simply accepting the defeat and resign to our fate. 

4. We know our IIISLA CC had made efforts for revision of survey fees and represented the matter before the GMs (Technical) of all the PSU insurance companies and followed up the matter too from time to time.  Yet, GIPSA has taken the decision and released the revised survey fees schedule on their own.  Thus they have totally ignored us and made us feel irrelevant when the issue was actually to do with the decision of survey fee revision of the surveyors, that too after 4 long years.  The last revision was done during March 2013 and was effective from 1st April 2013.  So after 4 years what was conceded to us is just peanuts or pittance and sans any scientific base or study. Hence the revised survey fees schedule lacks sanctity and acceptance from the surveyor community.   
   

5. We have no obligation to accept the GIPSA fees schedule.  The choice is clearly left to us.  We can either accept it and surrender ourselves before the insurance company officials, both private and public sector insurance companies, or we can decide and devise our own survey fees schedule, make copies available to all the insurance companies, GI Council and IRDA, and inform them that all the surveyors would charge the fees as per the schedule decided by IIISLA w.e.f. 01st April 2017. 
   

6. All the member surveyors have the obligation to follow the IIISLA survey fees schedule from the appointed date, which would be 01st April 2017, and that would be the minimum.  No member would charge less than the minimum fees that is prescribed by IIISLA.

7. All the members are bound by the code of conduct of IIISLA and cannot ignore or violate the code of conduct as prescribed by IIISLA.  Any defaulter or violator would be dealt with severely by IIISLA, including temporary suspension of membership pending investigation and inquiry, and later even removal from the register of members. 
   

Are we united to take this decision and also abide by this?   Is our IIISLA CC ready to take the hard decision or would they still want to be seen with the begging bowl standing before the insurance companies seeking (read begging) a small increase in survey fees once every 4 - 6 years?  GIPSA only decides for the PSUs and the private insurance companies have no obligation to follow the survey fees schedule decided by GIPSA and they are mostly seen arm twisting the surveyors into accepting fees that is 30 - 50% less than GIPSA schedule.   We can also bring them into order with this action of ours.  

We have lost severely in the last 15 years with inadequate or insufficient fees which is not commensurate with the work that is rendered and the quality of work that is demanded from us.  Now we have nothing to lose as we are already working at a bare minimum fees that does not meet the costs for rendering the work.  We are professionals and not beggars.  A plumber or an electrician earns more than a motor surveyor now.  Yet they enjoy more freedom and independence than us.  Are we to be treated lesser than these workers and still called as ambassadors of insurance companies?  Time for you to decide and take some hard decisions. 

With best regards,
Sincerely,

S. Anoop Kumar,
Hyderabad.
+91 9849042132

[S. Anoop Kumar]

Also read my article on survey fees revision to be decided and implemented by IIISLA.   This article was published in The Insurance Times magazine of October 2012.

S. Anoop Kumar.  

[Naresh Kukkar]

Dear Anoop Ji,

You point is valid that we can fix our own fee schedule. But if authority will not pay or accept it ,then whole effort will ruined. Rather face value of IIISLA will be degraded. One example is giving labour to  local workshop by surveyor. When local workshop person call for rates higher than market stating  it as his ability, we give him market rates until and unless exceptional case is there; in which he give valid reasons for that. .So better thing is to convince the authority that survey fee is very less in this environment and revision should be done with in year or two.  We should declare fee schedule for working with insured . Where rates can be higher than these rates.      

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Naresh  Kumar Kukkar
Jalalabad( W), Punjab
nku...@gmail.com
01638-254054
09814706491

[S. Anoop Kumar]

Mr. Naresh Kukkar,

I completely disagree with you.  IIISLA is a professional body and is empowered to take decisions, more particularly when it comes to fixation of fair survey fees to be charged by it's members.  We have a governing council with 3 nominated directors from MoF, IRDA and also Chairman - GI Council on the board.

Yet we refuse to take a decision and always prefer to wait at the gates of GIPSA or of GI Council with a begging bowl in our extended arms seeking alms.  They ignore us.  But when they take notice of us, they take pity on us and throw some change at us.  We gladly lap it up falling over each other.  And I do not blame them.  I blame ourselves and our deep rooted habit of begging now flowing in our arteries.  

When we present our proposal with an effective date of implementation of survey fees schedule, our IIISLA survey fees schedule, then they will atleast call us for a discussion and negotiation and arriving at a fair fees and expenses.  

When you cannot do your job right, then do what you are told without any questions.  When you cannot decide on your own then accept what is thrown at you. If IIISLA CC cannot take decisions, then it serves no any purpose to it's members.  Then it's existence has no meaning except that we pay for it to be misused by a few and you be harassed. We would be better off without IIISLA for we are anyway working as per the decisions taken by IRDA or insurance companies or GIPSA or GI Council.  Let's accept our incompetence and surrender IIISLA to IRDA.  Atleast we can save some money.

S. Anoop Kumar,

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[Chandrasekhara Raju]

Dear Naresh ji,

There can not be two sets of fee one for Insurer and one for insured.  Professional Institutes need to self govern, with ethical practices.

GIPSA was relevant when there was only 4 PSUs.  With Private Insurers coming into the scenario, GI Council was the Authority to fix such fee for services sought by them or the we the body of surveyors who offer our services.  When IRDA Act was enacted, it was duty bound to fix remuneration to all the intermediaries, as per the Act itself.

The latest is IIISLA, promoted by none other than IRDA with Board level participation of MOF, IRDA, GI Council.  The authyority to fix fee for services rendered by its members is well laid out in its AOA.  But somehow, our CC refused to Act inspite of several appeals.

As a first step they can atleast start the process, by publishing draft proposals and seek comments / feed back from all the stake holders.  Frankly, tell me what is the difficulty in doing this?  

And I find functionaries like President responding only when personal allegations are levelled against him, or to promote such schemes like BF.  When CC was so proactive in bringing in such scheme as BF, why are they so mute and clue less in dealing with all important area of Survey Fee fixation, when practical solutions have been suggested for implementation by many of us.

I have many times pleaded with successive councils for system based functioning of IIISLA, to ensure visibility of IIISLA by establishing its full structure; devolution of functions, authority such that industry can read / notice our presence and stand on issues.

We have seen that during the tenure of Mr Lalit Gupta as President, he has succeeded in getting down the admin to office boy level, from Manager level; and IIISLA significance has touched its all time low.

When the future of our profession itself is at stake (first with contract survey, now with such insulting Survey Fee revision), why this silence and what for they are there?  Is it not time to kick them out?  I hope they will respond NOW, to blame me for using such abusive language.  Tell me what to do. Gadhe ke samne Bhagavadgita padhethe kutch fayeda hi kya?  We use stick sufficiently long to make the creature move.

If Surveyor brothers across the Country are really bothered; question, gherao, and compel them to respond or QUIT.  

Regards,

dcs raju.

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[J.k Sharma]

Respected All;

Will anybody clear the status of the Annual Accounts?. 

It was very common talk during the AGM that the account was not set properly and more than Rs. --- lacs entry were improperly adjusted. The accounts from the Chapters and Zones are pending. It is obvious, without having the basic accounts how can a final account be submitted?.     

This is the duty of our CA and company sect. members as the engineers have no proper knowledge of accounts.

What are the effects of non-submitting the accounts or wrong accounts submitted to the authority?

If the CA firm appointed for, is responsible for the same or not?

What is the status of forthcoming EGM, Will it be held? What will be the agenda? will it be notified before 21 days?

The members attended the AGM are of the view that the accounts were not passed, Some are of the opinion that the accounts were passed with a condition that the ratify accounts will be put in EGM at Delhi before 31st March. Now the EGM have been deferred. Where are we standing?  

The members are in ambiguity, Please do something before a big problem is to be faced. 

Hope we will take it seriously to maintain the IIISLA status.     

With Regard's

dadashree.sharma

9354108188

9034108188

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 6:08 AM, 'PARIMAL SHAH' via Indian Independent Insurance Surveyor And Loss Assessors Bengal <iiisla...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Cc is busy for fundraising hence cannot attend please ordinary them

Sent from my iPhone

On 20-Mar-2017, at 1:44 AM, 'mohan israni' via Indian Independent Insurance Surveyor And Loss Assessors Bengal <iiisla-bengal@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Dear Anoop Kumar,

I fully agree with you and your comments to Our friend N K kukkar as they are absolutely to the point. It has been observed from time to time that approaching G I Council or the GIPSA is a waste of time since the officials comprising the council are the ones who either do not care about our  Institute and its MC members or are totally ignorant of the subject matter like Survey Fees and the other related expenses thereof. They merely have one objective as faithful servants of their Insurance Companies, to keep the expenses as low as possible at our expenses through the claims. I also strongly feel that our MC able members should directly approach the nominated directors who can pressurize GIPSA or GI Council to be more realistic in the matter.

Please keep pushing our sleeping MC members. Good Luck                           Mohan Israni   

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[mohan israni]

Dear Anoop Kumar,

I fully agree with you and your comments to Our friend N K kukkar as they are absolutely to the point. It has been observed from time to time that approaching G I Council or the GIPSA is a waste of time since the officials comprising the council are the ones who either do not care about our  Institute and its MC members or are totally ignorant of the subject matter like Survey Fees and the other related expenses thereof. They merely have one objective as faithful servants of their Insurance Companies, to keep the expenses as low as possible at our expenses through the claims. I also strongly feel that our MC able members should directly approach the nominated directors who can pressurize GIPSA or GI Council to be more realistic in the matter.

Please keep pushing our sleeping MC members. Good Luck                           Mohan Israni   

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